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Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

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Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

Post by PeterMac on 29.04.15 17:24

I couldn't help smiling at the translation . .

X. Condemn the perpetrators KATE HEALY MARIE McCann, GERALD PATRICK McCann,

Well quite. A consummation devoutly to be wished.

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Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

Post by Joss on 29.04.15 17:38

@HelenMeg wrote:
@Bishop Brennan wrote:An interesting and, sad-to-say, plausible assessment of the Lisbon ruling and its wider context.  

http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/2015/04/how-ruling-and-scotland-yard-review.html

Might be worth checking out that London Bridge offer though...  
Thats the best summary Ive seen her write... sadly but very plausibly a decent explanation.
If it is government - government collusion what on earth can we do?
This case was always about protecting the McC's at all costs right from the get go. Even GA said the case would never be solved because of the political interference. I don't know what people that would like to see justice done  for a missing Madeleine would actually be able to do? There have been petitions, documentaries, etc. to try and bring some truth, but if nothing else there will always be a big cloud of suspicion over the McC's heads wherever they go. A lot of people certainly don't see them as innocent, and at the end of the day they have to live with their conscience if they have one. Poor Madeleine she has been let down by so many, and sadly it has never really been about her. All i can say is there must be a very big secret they are hiding in what Madeleine's fate actually was, and we can only guess about it.

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Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

Post by Tony Bennett on 29.04.15 17:59

@HelenMeg wrote:
@Bishop Brennan wrote:An interesting and, sad-to-say, plausible assessment of the Lisbon ruling and its wider context.  

http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/2015/04/how-ruling-and-scotland-yard-review.html

Might be worth checking out that London Bridge offer though...  
That's the best summary Ive seen her write... sadly but very plausibly a decent explanation.
If it is government - government collusion - what on earth can we do?
* We can raise petitions on the government's website demanding an public enquiry...

* We can write to the Head of the Independent Police Complaints Commission demanding an investigation into Operation Grange...

* We can write to the Chairman of the London Assembly's Police & Crime Committee demanding they exercise their duty to oversee the Met Police - and examine Operation Grange...

...but...

WAIT!     

Some of us here have already done just those things.

The question is, though, how many of us here are actually DOING those things...

...and how many are content to just fill up valuable bandwidth on here, grumbling away about things, but NOT actually taking any positive action to get this whole expensive Operation Grange fiasco properly looked at??*



* THANKS by the way to all those who HAVE acted so far

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Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

Post by jimuck on 29.04.15 18:16

@Verdi wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:Just a look back at a couple of predictions back in January:

================================================

Tony Bennett on CMOMM (the forum described by Blacksmith as a cess pit) 21 January 2015

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t10766p70-the-january-2015-mccanns-v-amaral-hearing-on-the-facts-what-did-the-portuguese-court-of-appeal-say-about-the-facts (page 8 of thread, 21 January)

QUOTE TB:   In plain English, and if the reporting from the court is accurate, this means that the judge is saying:

"What Goncalo Amaral said in his book, in a TV documentary, and in a Correia da Manhan interview, caused the McCanns...

1. permanent anguish,
2. insomnia,
3. lack of appetite,
4. anxiety
5. irritability,
6. preoccupation, and
7. indefinable fear.

This does NOT necssarily mean, as I understand it, that Amaral has 'lost' his case.

But there's no getting away from it.

Nor can we get away from this: (Point 28) "The judge does note that some of the facts in the book are not complete, and some facts that are in the book are not in the case files, including Jane Tanner's 'informal' recognition of Robert Murat".

There are IMO things that both sides can draw from the 36 points today.

Maybe there will not be a clear-cut victory for either side?



Blacksmith on the Blacksmith blog, January 2015

QUOTE Blacksmith:  We will know the verdict within 7 weeks and the McCanns are toast
Quite so!  Since the beginning of this year, the general of opinion of those who claim to be in the know, the McCanns future security was riding on three issues.  1. The conclusion of the inquest into the death of Brenda Leyland.  2.  The conslusion of the Lisbon court trial.  3.  Poulton's long awaited documentary.

One final blow has been and gone without impact, the second is looking to end the same way (at least as concerns the McCanns being toast) which only leaves Poulton.  I rest my case.
Your missing issue 4 which is the most important issue of all.....Operation Grange. Issue 4 is picking away at McCann's future security.

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Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 29.04.15 18:21

@Tony. 

If they are corrupt then writing to those bodies will have no effect. "They" would make sure of that.

Might be a better idea to get someone like Exaro News on the case?

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Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

Post by Tony Bennett on 29.04.15 18:35

@TheTruthWillOut wrote:@Tony. 

If they are corrupt then writing to those bodies will have no effect. "They" would make sure of that.

REPLY:  Yes, of course you have a point, and I tend to agree with it. But suppose everybody who has the remotest concern about Operation Grange were to contact say the IPCC and the London Assembly - they would suddenly face TENS OF THOUSANDS of requests for action. And then the mainstream press could report this!

Not having a go at any individual here, but I really get tired and fed up with people making excuses for doing nothing. OK, some may say: 'That's not a good way forward Tony'.

But I never hear anyone say 'Hey. I've got a better idea'.

I believe fewer than 10 members here have bothered to write to Dame Anne Owers demanding an enquiry into Operation Grange. Why is that? It takes barely 10 minutes to send an e-mail to enquiries@ipcc.gsi.gov.uk and give your brief reasons for asking for an investigation.

Why haven't 100 members here done that already?  


Might be a better idea to get someone like Exaro News on the case?

REPLY: Are you volunteering to contact them yourself and report back to us on what happened?


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Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

Post by Tony Bennett on 29.04.15 18:39

@jimuck wrote:
Issue 4 is the most important issue of all...Operation Grange....it is picking away at McCann's future security.
@ jimuck    How do know that? Or is this just a belief you have...a hope...mere wishful thinking? What is your evidence for your belief?

Because to me and so many others the evidence looks clearly in the opposite direction - from the original remit to the Alouette Mark III helicopter ride - an expensive charade


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Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

Post by espeland on 29.04.15 18:51

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@TheTruthWillOut wrote:

But I never hear anyone say 'Hey. I've got a better idea'.
 
Tony,

Well, TheTruthWillOut's comment and suggestion in the 6:21 post is surely a good idea?

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Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

Post by Tony Bennett on 29.04.15 18:59

@espeland wrote:Tony,

Well, TheTruthWillOut's comment and suggestion in the 6:21 post is surely a good idea?
I don't disagree for one moment.

What would be good, then, is for BOTH TheTruthWillOut and your good self to contact Exaro News, and I look forward very much to hearing the results from that

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Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

Post by espeland on 29.04.15 19:04

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@espeland wrote:Tony,

Well, TheTruthWillOut's comment and suggestion in the 6:21 post is surely a good idea?
I don't disagree for one moment.

What would be good, then, is for BOTH TheTruthWillOut and your good self to contact Exaro News, and I look forward very much to hearing the results from that


I would if I thought I could write concisely about tha case, but I don't. I did, however, write to the IPCC.

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Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

Post by lj on 29.04.15 19:06

@Bishop Brennan wrote:
@lj wrote:

Technicality might also be misspelling of names?

I doubt that would cause any significant problem.  It might however speak to the competence and attention to detail of the judge.


And of Isabelle the witch lawyer, who did not correct it.

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Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 29.04.15 19:14

@Tony Bennett wrote:Yes, of course you have a point, and I tend to agree with it. But suppose everybody who has the remotest concern about Operation Grange were to contact say the IPCC and the London Assembly - they would suddenly face TENS OF THOUSANDS of requests for action. And then the mainstream press could report this!

Not having a go at any individual here, but I really get tired and fed up with people making excuses for doing nothing. OK, some may say: 'That's not a good way forward Tony'.

But I never hear anyone say 'Hey. I've got a better idea'.

I believe fewer than 10 members here have bothered to write to Dame Anne Owers demanding an enquiry into Operation Grange. Why is that? It takes barely 10 minutes to send an e-mail to enquiries@ipcc.gsi.gov.uk and give your brief reasons for asking for an investigation.

Why haven't 100 members here done that already?  


Are you volunteering to contact them yourself and report back to us on what happened?

Hands up Tony, I don't possess the the writing skills to compose a decent email. I do know you and PeterMac, for example, have compiled evidence dossiers that should be more than enough for action if it is compelling. Numbers shouldn't matter.

It is defeatist, but when you look at something like the Janner "decision" then just two people in power (AS, DC) can hold back even dozens of MPs, police and media, what chance the voice of the little man?

Off topic: Interesting read on the Janner case. http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1991/dec/03/contempt-of-court

If corruption is, for whatever reason, at the very top of government over this case, then it will remain secret in the near term. Like the Janner case though, the truth will always out.......... thumbsup

And I thought I was the optimist of the forum!

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Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

Post by Guest on 29.04.15 19:30

Came home from work an hour ago, made a cuppa and sat down to read through this thread.  Great posts, I've got nothing to add, you all express very well my thoughts and feelings.  My contribution will be to GA's fund.

I agree, it's not over yet.

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Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

Post by NickE on 29.04.15 21:29

From Sonia Poulton:


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When asked if people will ever learn what really happened, Mr Amaral responded: “Yes, we will, when MI5 opens the case files, we will find out".

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Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

Post by Tony Bennett on 29.04.15 21:47

@sallypelt wrote:The truth cannot be hidden by court cases or censorship. The more people try to bury the truth, the more decent people will become interesting in finding out the facts.
'sallypelt' wrote the above earlier today on the Twitter thread.

It's inevitable after a renewed burst of publcity in a case like this - where even the McCanns' own spokesman admitted this case was 'a complete mystery' - and where around £30 million has been spent on FOUR separate sets of investigations, and hiring over two dozen lawyers, without finding any of the phantom abductors, that people will cast around for an alternative view.

Which is no doubt why, when I checked the viewing figures on YouTube and blip tv for Richard Hall's two recent documentaries last night and tonight, I clocked a surge of around 10,000 extra views for his vids in the past 24 hours

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Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

Post by Verdi on 29.04.15 22:37

jimuck today @ 6:16 pm

"Your missing issue 4 which is the most important issue of all.....Operation Grange. Issue 4 is picking away at McCann's future security."

Oh, that's what the Operation Grange team have been doing for the past four years is it?  Must say I did wonder - there must be something significantly amiss if they've been chipping away all this time without any progress.

Still, when they've finished chipping away, there's always more room in Mme Tussaud's chamber of horrors for another one or two posthumous exhibits. 

If you think you can convince the unconvinced that OG are beavering away on mission book 'em Danno maybe you could wise me up on the detail because I'm blowed if I can see it.

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Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

Post by Silverspeed on 29.04.15 22:54

http://portugalresident.com/gon%C3%A7alo-amaral-ordered-to-pay-parents-of-madeleine-mccann-%E2%82%AC500000-in-damages


The above article includes a quote from Goncalo "We are in the face of a mere battle in a war that is far from over."


The fat lady has not started singing just yet.

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Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

Post by Silverspeed on 30.04.15 0:54

An appalling headline to this article although hardly surprising.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/439410/Madeleine-McCann-Kate-Gerry-357k-libel-cash

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Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

Post by Bishop Brennan on 30.04.15 4:03

@Silverspeed wrote:An appalling headline to this article although hardly surprising.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/439410/Madeleine-McCann-Kate-Gerry-357k-libel-cash

That article is interesting not for its headline but because it contains the first indications of the imminent wind-down of Operation Grange.

McCanns’ spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: “The investigation will come to an end sooner or later and Kate and Gerry will use the official Madeleine fund and any awards made to them to continue their own search.’’

A statement that implies to me that OG will be winding down shortly and that it will wind down without a result.

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Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

Post by Bishop Brennan on 30.04.15 4:20

This update from HiDiHo's FB group:

UPDATE 4
GA and LAWYER now notified - 40 days for appeal deadline starts Monday. As per Lizzy post, it may be filed before but not later.
More to follow as and when ....[


Some early translations are coming through of the judgement too, which to me suggest that an appeal would be complex (and therefore expensive).  

Point II – At the centre of the case, there is a conflict between two existing rights. The applicants (KM and GM) right to their good name as well as the presumption of innocence and the freedom they were always entitled to and the right of the defendant of freedom of expression, in the specific sense he is entitled to a right of opinion.

The judge then resources to jurisprudence , mainly by the European court of Human rights to weigh the balance between the two rights and which should prevail when conflicts between these two rights exist.

The following is a list of jurisprudence and studies the judge resourced to in order to reach her decision :

Universal Declaration of Human Rights (12, 16, 29 -n2)
European Convention for the protection of human rights
European court for Human Rights (she stresses article 8 number 1 of the Portuguese Constitution regarding the reception of international laws)
British cases (Allen C)
German Cases (Karaman c)

Civil Code
CRP
Portuguese Jurisprudence as in several decisions of the superior Courts (Both Relação and Supreme Courts)



If I were a betting man, then I would put quite a lot of money on the theory that much of the research (and interpretation) of that long list of statutes and case law was helpfully included in the McCann's legal submission thereby making the judge's task that little bit easier.  Nothing wrong or illegal in that - just the benefit of a top-notch, well-financed legal team.


(Info above is a subset of the detailed report in the TextUSA blog comments: http://textusa.blogspot.com/2015/04/3-hours-for-tapas.html?showComment=1430328339687#c1300913960398315494

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Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

Post by Guest on 30.04.15 6:10

@Bishop Brennan wrote:
@Silverspeed wrote:An appalling headline to this article although hardly surprising.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/439410/Madeleine-McCann-Kate-Gerry-357k-libel-cash

That article is interesting not for its headline but because it contains the first indications of the imminent wind-down of Operation Grange.

McCanns’ spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: “The investigation will come to an end sooner or later and Kate and Gerry will use the official Madeleine fund and any awards made to them to continue their own search.’’

A statement that implies to me that OG will be winding down shortly and that it will wind down without a result.
"The investigation will come to an end sooner or later and Kate and Gerry will use the official Madeleine fund and any awards made to them to continue their own search."

So they know that whenever OG's investigation ends, it won't have found their daughter.

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Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

Post by BlueBag on 30.04.15 6:39

@Silverspeed wrote:http://portugalresident.com/gon%C3%A7alo-amaral-ordered-to-pay-parents-of-madeleine-mccann-%E2%82%AC500000-in-damages


The above article includes a quote from Goncalo "We are in the face of a mere battle in a war that is far from over."


The fat lady has not started singing just yet.

Good man!!!!

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Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

Post by BlueBag on 30.04.15 6:42

@Silverspeed wrote:An appalling headline to this article although hardly surprising.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/439410/Madeleine-McCann-Kate-Gerry-357k-libel-cash

Clarence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From the link:

But the McCanns’ spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: “The investigation will come to an end sooner or later and Kate and Gerry will use the official Madeleine fund and any awards made to them to continue their own search.’

Just think about what he said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He knows the investigation will find nothing.

How so?

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Re: Goncalo Has Lost the Libel trial

Post by BlueBag on 30.04.15 6:48

@Bishop Brennan wrote:Point II – At the centre of the case, there is a conflict between two existing rights. The applicants (KM and GM) right to their good name as well as the presumption of innocence and the freedom they were always entitled to and the right of the defendant of freedom of expression, in the specific sense he is entitled to a right of opinion.

People have the right to suspect and people should accept they will be suspected as well.

There is also the freedom of speech issue which is the single most important right that the human race has and the one most oppressed.. even in our "free" society.

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News from the U.S.

Post by Tony Bennett on 30.04.15 7:34

United States reporting the news: Federal News Radio and Associated Press:

=====================================

Madeleine McCann's parents win Portuguese libel case

Wednesday - 4/29/2015, 12:50am EDT

by BARRY HATTON Associated Press


LISBON, Portugal (AP) -- The parents of missing British girl Madeleine McCann have won 500,000 euros ($549,000) in a libel action against a former Portuguese detective who published a book alleging they were involved in their daughter's disappearance, according to a Lisbon court ruling published Tuesday.



"We would like to remind people that there is still an innocent little girl who is missing..."


The McCanns were seeking 1.2 million euros in damages from Goncalo Amaral, who was part of the police investigation into Madeleine's disappearance from a vacation home in Portugal's Algarve region in May 2007, days before her fourth birthday.

The claim included amounts for the parents as well as for Madeleine and her younger twin brother and sister.

The court decided to award 250,000 euros each to Kate and Gerry McCann, but didn't grant the other claims.

It said Kate and Gerry argued that they were "totally destroyed" and "depressed" by Amaral's allegations and felt "ashamed" that they might appear to have been to blame for their daughter's disappearance, as well as being "seen as cowardly people who allegedly hid her body, pretending she had been snatched."

They say their daughter was abducted while unattended in her family's resort apartment in Praia da Luz on Portugal's south coast as her parents and their friends dined nearby.

"More than financial compensation, what (Kate and Gerry McCann) want is public moral reparation," the court said.

The McCanns welcomed the ruling in a statement issued by the family spokesman, Clarence Mitchell.

"We are delighted with the judge's verdict today. We want to emphasise the action was never about money. It was entirely focused on the effect of the libels on our other children and the damage that was done to the search for Madeleine," they said.

"We would like to remind people that there is still an innocent little girl who is missing and that those responsible for her abduction remain at large," they added.

Amaral argued in his defense that his claims stemmed from the police investigation and that Portuguese media had already reported the possibility that the parents might have played a role in Madeleine's disappearance.

The 52-page ruling, handed down Monday, also prohibited the sale of Amaral's 2008 book "The Truth of the Lie."

Portuguese police closed the case in 2008 because authorities had detected no crime.

British police launched Operation Grange in 2011 to try to find out what happened to Madeleine. British detectives said that after sifting through the Portuguese case files they identified new avenues of investigation.

The public prosecutor's office in Lisbon reopened the investigation in 2013, saying new leads emerged during the case review though it didn't elaborate.

Last June, British police conducted searches of scrubland around where Madeleine went missing but announced no new evidence.

Cases that are under investigation in Portugal are covered by a judicial secrecy law, which forbids the release of information.

Madeleine's disappearance sparked global interest as pictures of her and her grieving parents were published around the world. Her parents briefly met with Pope Benedict XVI in St. Peter's Square in June 2007, a month after Madeleine disappeared, and the pontiff held a picture of their daughter.

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