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McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by jeanmonroe on 24.12.14 10:34

Hope 'our' Trace never got a rollocking for calling Madeleine, 'Maddy'!

"Kate and Gerry McCann praised supporters for helping..."

"INCLUDING" PRAISING their ardent SUPPORTER Cindy Martin who sent death threats to a widowed, old aged, pensioner, before her death, because the OAP had the temerity to question' the McCann's version of 'events'!
--------------------------------------------------------

"Once again we have been amazed this year by the support we continue to have for our search for Madeleine...."
---------------------------------------------------

Somebody's going to have to 'remind' me, on this one!

WHEN and WHERE, exactly, did THEY ( "OUR search" ) 'SEARCH' for Madeleine..........THIS year?

Yeah, yeah i 'KNOW'!!................WHEN and WHERE did they, OR any of their 'families' and 'friends', EVER 'SEARCH' for Madeleine in ANY year!
------------------------------------------------------------------
Operation Grange, the Yard’s multi-million pound re-investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance, has made what police call “significant progress” since it was launched in 2011.
------------------

"signiificant PROGRESS"?

Really?

After a three and a half years, FULL TIME, 'investigation' by 38 solely 'dedicated' Met police 'staff' with unlimited UK taxpayer 'funding'' of over £10,750,000 (and 'rising' DAILY, 'even' on Xmas day?, by £6,778) the 'significant PROGRESS' Operation Grange have 'made' is that:

"We RECKON she was 'killed' in a bungled burglary and the burglar(s) took her 'dead' body away' with him,.. or her, ...or they, er, umm,.... or not"
-------------------------------------------------------
"Extensive searches were made in the summer in and around the apartment.."
=========

First i've heard that OG made an 'extensive' SEARCH 'IN' apartment G5A, in summer of 2014.
======================
From the Xmas 'message'

'Message' to 'anyone' in particular? (HIPS?)

"In addition it's very apparent that the determination of the Metropolitan Police remains steadfast, in spite of the persistent challenges they face."

MET Police's.........Persistent 'challenges'?

They might have well just said 'those dumbass's at Grange will NEVER 'find' the body'!

"Perhaps you should 'dig up' the 'snail', Andy,?"

Actually, WHAT did 'lead' Andy to 'dig up' THAT 'specific' area?

Obviously 'intell'...................but 'intell' from WHOM?  (TM?)

Remember Gerry's 'challenge'? to POLICE.......................'

"Find the body and prove we killed her"

As GM said in Lisbon, ''Somebody's been laughing their socks of, these last six years'

And i 'reckon'.......... i know WHO have been the 'ones' LAUGHING!!

And it hasn't been some 'local nutter oddball, paedo, gypsy, burglator, abductor'

"persistent challenges"? (You'll NEVER 'find'....anything! were way to smart!)

Surely not 'marking' DCI Wall's 'card' early, are they?

A day AFTER she takes 'command' of Grange?

There was plenty of 'time' to 'put out' a Xmas 'message' BEFORE DCI Wall, took 'over' wasn't there?

ALL, imo, obviously.

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by Doug D on 24.12.14 11:18

   
McCanns: 'Thanks for holding Maddy in your hearts'


THE parents of missing Madeleine McCann spoke yesterday of being moved to tears by the kindness of well-wishers.
 
 
It’s a quote, Jeanmonroe, and as it’s the Mirror it must be accurate, so it’s not ‘our Tracey’s’ fault!!!!!!!!!
 
 

eta. Apologies to the Mirror, it's the Express!

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by lj on 24.12.14 14:40

@PeterMac wrote:
@Woofer wrote:
hope someone tweets it.  
Where do you think I stole it from !
But it is OK. Nothing of value was taken
spit coffee

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by Brian Griffin on 24.12.14 14:59

@Joss wrote:
@Realist wrote:
@ScarletLaw wrote:
 and I believe this is because Madeleine is at sea and floating about.

Surely if she was at sea and floating about, she would either have been espied by some maritime voyager, or swept ashore at some stage by the current.
No not necessarily. Fisherman go missing in the sea never to be seen again, or people that drown at sea. After any length of time in the sea a body could be anywhere, and if it is weighed down it wouldn't surface either. IMO.
Quite. There are many victims of the Japanese tsunami still missing at sea.

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by Brian Griffin on 24.12.14 15:22

@PeterMac wrote:Very interesting comments on the Mirror facebook page
Indicative of the general feelings of the population ?

https://www.facebook.com/dailymirror/posts/10152958451599162
I think more and more people are getting fed up with the whole McCann thing, and are starting to avail themselves of the facts that the media are so intent on keeping away from the general public. Maybe they have overdone it. Over the last year there seems to have been more desperation in the McCanns campaigns to stay in the news and keep their story going. At some point it is likely to backfire. In my opinion.

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by Realist on 24.12.14 17:11

@Joss wrote:
 and if it is weighed down it wouldn't surface either. IMO.

No, it wouldn't, but if you care to peruse the poster's original text, you will discover that the words used were 'floating about.' Bodies that are weighted down, as opposed to weighed down, don't float about, not if they've been proficiently weighted down, anyway.

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by Realist on 24.12.14 17:19

@Brian Griffin wrote:
. Over the last year there seems to have been more desperation in the McCanns campaigns to stay in the news and keep their story going. At some point it is likely to backfire. In my opinion.




It probably will, unfortunately, there still won't be any tangible evidence with which to secure a conviction against the McCanns. Most cold cases are solved by advancements in forensic technology, however, in this case there doesn't appear to be enough, if any evidence to submit for reanalysis, unless of course, the PJ have all the time been holding back some vital evidence.

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by Joss on 24.12.14 17:24

@Realist wrote:
@Joss wrote:
 and if it is weighed down it wouldn't surface either. IMO.

No, it wouldn't, but if you care to peruse the poster's original text, you will discover that the words used were 'floating about.' Bodies that are weighted down, as opposed to weighed down, don't float about, not if they've been proficiently weighted down, anyway.
Yes that is what the poster said. If a person was lost at sea and not weighted down their body could be anywhere and never be noticed as has happened often, even though not weighted down by anything.
There are many people that have been lost at sea. And yes, if a body has been weighed down with something heavy then it wouldn't be floating about.

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by Realist on 24.12.14 17:34

@Joss wrote: If a person was lost at sea and not weighted down their body could be anywhere and never be noticed as has happened often, even though not weighted down by anything.

I totally concur, but in the case of the McCanns,  the very best that they would have had access to was some form of rowing boat, so had they in fact dumped their daughter's body and left it floating at sea, it would have been relatively close to shore, as opposed to being in the middle of the Atlantic.

Presumably, the Portuguese authorities would have conducted a helicopter search of at least a 5 mile radius of the coastline when Madeleine was first reported as being missing.

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by margaret on 24.12.14 18:12

@Brian Griffin wrote:
@Joss wrote:
@Realist wrote:
@ScarletLaw wrote:
 and I believe this is because Madeleine is at sea and floating about.

Surely if she was at sea and floating about, she would either have been espied by some maritime voyager, or swept ashore at some stage by the current.
No not necessarily. Fisherman go missing in the sea never to be seen again, or people that drown at sea. After any length of time in the sea a body could be anywhere, and if it is weighed down it wouldn't surface either. IMO.
Quite. There are many victims of the Japanese tsunami still missing at sea.
43,000 people still missing a programme said the other night. Simply unbelievable but of course the sea is huge.

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by Sam S on 25.12.14 5:39

Yes, the seas are huge, and filled with things that can and do eat dead flesh to the bone. So nothing will be "floating about" for long.

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by AlexBG on 29.12.14 18:58

@plebgate wrote:I wonder if there were any donations in the hundreds of cards they received?
I wonder if Mr and Mrs really did receive hundreds of christmas cards from well-wishing supporters, as their regal christmas message implied.
Either way, one could be cynical and surmise that their decision to make reference to said cards was just a tactic, not unlike the "Appeal to the Masses" fallacy. This fallacy is committed by those who seek to justify a belief by the support base behind that belief, rather than dealing with the evidence (or lack thereof) supporting said belief.
I've seen Mr and Mrs use this tactic before, on those rare occasions when a journalist (never a UK one of course) has dared to ask them a mildly difficult question. Their response began with something like "I know that the majority of people in this country are decent people and they'll agree with me when I say... [insert crude rebuttal here]".
It's basically a form of 'peer pressure'. When someone mentions what everyone else thinks as evidence of their version of events, they are appealing to the masses.

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by Realist on 29.12.14 19:45

@AlexBG wrote:
 When someone mentions what everyone else thinks as evidence of their version of events, they are appealing to the masses.

A lie doesn't become the truth no matter how many people repeat it. A classic example being the feeding of the 5000 with a loaf of bread and a couple of fish big grin

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by aiyoyo on 29.12.14 20:16



@plebgate wrote:I wonder if there were any donations in the hundreds of cards they received?

If money was enclosed don't expect to hear about it.  Maybe even their accountant wasn't told.  Kate will probably spend it on another hair highlights ...........
Who's to know what they received or if they gave it over to the Fund or what they did with it.
But mentioning the hundreds of cards even if they made that up is just PR.
Going by the comments on Mirror's F/B probably the hundreds of cards were just hate mails.

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by PeterMac on 29.12.14 21:50

@Realist wrote:
@AlexBG wrote:
 When someone mentions what everyone else thinks as evidence of their version of events, they are appealing to the masses.
A lie doesn't become the truth no matter how many people repeat it. A classic example being the feeding of the 5000 with a loaf of bread and a couple of fish

There is a very good explanation of that particular "miracle", in fact.
In the near East, and I speak of a good friend who hails from Cyprus, a wedding is a celebration not only between the two people, and the two families, but of the two villages concerned.
Everyone is invited to the 'reception'. The near families provide food and drink for the near families, and open barbecues for the rest.  
At the wedding of my friend there were 1500 people, - probably -  no one counted them
Every family from the surrounding villages bring food and wine, and will remain in their extended family group eating and drinking, and will be visited by the bride and groom who will then pin the money on the bride's gown.  And will then dance and drink some more,
At a significant gathering, since each family will have slightly over-catered, there will be a lot of food left over.

It makes perfect sense.  It was "true" and you can see it in action to this day. ( In fact it happens in rural Spain  . . . )
The 'Spin" was to claim it as a miracle, rather than leave it as something that is perfectly normal and explicable.
Much of the Bible is normal and perfectly explicable as an historical account - even to someone like me.

The loaves and fishes were all that the disciples had thought to bring.  
Five loaves of "peasant bread" can be 7 kg - more than enough for a few disciples, and who knows how large were the two fish ?
One of my favourite lunchtime snacks is a a couple of slices of toast, with two small fillets of Anchovy squished over them and some of my own olive
oil with a slice of tomato anbd a bit of sea salt. There is almost a whole tin of anchovies left over !

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by secrets and lies on 29.12.14 21:57

I assume Mr. and Mrs. do get their fair share of Christmas cards each year and lots of "fanmail" throughout the year.

But I wonder, if, on the very deepest level of their being, these members of the public KNOW there is something amiss with regard to this story.

Are they caught up in a sort of mania, such as the behaviour of those who write to and develop relationships with serial killers etc.?

Indeed, is this the same psychological profile of many of the "pro" shills who are so vocal on social media. Do they harbour a sort of "esteem" for the potentially diabolical actions of those they support?

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by Okeydokey on 29.12.14 23:24

@PeterMac wrote:
@Realist wrote:
@AlexBG wrote:
 When someone mentions what everyone else thinks as evidence of their version of events, they are appealing to the masses.
A lie doesn't become the truth no matter how many people repeat it. A classic example being the feeding of the 5000 with a loaf of bread and a couple of fish

There is a very good explanation of that particular "miracle", in fact.
In the near East, and I speak of a good friend who hails from Cyprus, a wedding is a celebration not only between the two people, and the two families, but of the two villages concerned.
Everyone is invited to the 'reception'. The near families provide food and drink for the near families, and open barbecues for the rest.  
At the wedding of my friend there were 1500 people, - probably -  no one counted them
Every family from the surrounding villages bring food and wine, and will remain in their extended family group eating and drinking, and will be visited by the bride and groom who will then pin the money on the bride's gown.  And will then dance and drink some more,
At a significant gathering, since each family will have slightly over-catered, there will be a lot of food left over.

It makes perfect sense.  It was "true" and you can see it in action to this day. ( In fact it happens in rural Spain  . . . )
The 'Spin" was to claim it as a miracle, rather than leave it as something that is perfectly normal and explicable.
Much of the Bible is normal and perfectly explicable as an historical account - even to someone like me.

The loaves and fishes were all that the disciples had thought to bring.  
Five loaves of "peasant bread" can be 7 kg - more than enough for a few disciples, and who knows how large were the two fish ?
One of my favourite lunchtime snacks is a a couple of slices of toast, with two small fillets of Anchovy squished over them and some of my own olive
oil with a slice of tomato anbd a bit of sea salt.   There is almost a whole tin of anchovies left over !

You're mixing up two miracles. Nothing to do with a wedding. You're thinking of the water into wine miracle. Too much Christmas pud? big grin

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by frost on 30.12.14 7:45

@secrets and lies wrote:I assume Mr. and Mrs. do get their fair share of Christmas cards each year and lots of "fanmail" throughout the year.

But I wonder, if, on the very deepest level of their being, these members of the public KNOW there is something amiss with regard to this story.

Are they caught up in a sort of mania, such as the behaviour of those who write to and develop relationships with serial killers etc.?

Indeed, is this the same psychological profile of many of the "pro" shills who are so vocal on social media. Do they harbour a sort of "esteem" for the potentially diabolical actions of those they support?


good post .

im sure they certainly will have their fair share of so called fans . Also some will have meerly latched on to the mccanns in hope of their own 5 minutes of fame . 

you make a good point about serial killers it is a well known fact that the vile creacture that is the Yorkshire ripper has indeed been inundated with love letters , birthday , christmas cards and presents etc he has even had proposals of marriage and then there are others who have just contacted him not because they idolise him but just to be part of the whole sorry story .

I do wonder what makes some folk tick . The yorkshire ripper is evil personified yet even to this day people still contact him and he does indeed write to several in return . 

So I have no doubt the Mccanns have indeed got themselves a possy of fans and hanger ons bizarre as it may seem .

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by Tony Bennett on 30.12.14 8:56

@Realist wrote:
A lie doesn't become the truth no matter how many people repeat it. A classic example being the feeding of the 5000 with a loaf of bread and a couple of fish
Well, that is a brave accusation, Realist.

And PeterMac's explanation I can characterise as ingenious.

I believe in the plain account we have of this event in all the Gospels, in other words, that this was a supernatural miracle performed by Christ, the Eternal Son of God, our Creator.

I wonder if there are credible explanations for the raising of the dead Lazarus after he had been dead for four days (John's Gospel, Chapter 11).

When Christ was challenged by some of the Jews: 'Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man [Lazarus - T.B.] should not have died' (verse 37), Christ replied: "Take ye away the stone".

And Martha [Lazarus's sister - T.B.] replied: "Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days".

Cadaver odour was most certainly present, but on this occasion, there was a corpse there as well.

Christ replied (verses 40-43): "Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?"

The people took away the stone.

And, the record says, Christ cried with a loud voice: "Lazarus, come forth".

And then we read (verse 44): 'And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with grave clothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go'.

Verse 45 informs us: 'Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.

Verses 47-53 inform us that, by contrast, the religious leaders of the day convened a special council, and 'took counsel together for to put him to death'.

++++++

And for that matter, what alternative explanation can there possibly be for the fact of Christ's resurrection, three days after a powerful earthquake and three hours of pitch blackness - recorded by the secular world at the time - accompanied His crucifixion?

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by Hobs on 30.12.14 15:21

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Realist wrote:
A lie doesn't become the truth no matter how many people repeat it. A classic example being the feeding of the 5000 with a loaf of bread and a couple of fish
Well, that is a brave accusation, Realist.

And PeterMac's explanation I can characterise as ingenious.

I believe in the plain account we have of this event in all the Gospels, in other words, that this was a supernatural miracle performed by Christ, the Eternal Son of God, our Creator.

I wonder if there are credible explanations for the raising of the dead Lazarus after he had been dead for four days (John's Gospel, Chapter 11).

When Christ was challenged by some of the Jews: 'Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man [Lazarus - T.B.] should not have died' (verse 37), Christ replied: "Take ye away the stone".

And Martha [Lazarus's sister - T.B.] replied: "Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days".

Cadaver odour was most certainly present, but on this occasion, there was a corpse there as well.

Christ replied (verses 40-43): "Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?"

The people took away the stone.

And, the record says, Christ cried with a loud voice: "Lazarus, come forth".

And then we read (verse 44): 'And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with grave clothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go'.

Verse 45 informs us: 'Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.

Verses 47-53 inform us that, by contrast, the religious leaders of the day convened a special council, and 'took counsel together for to put him to death'.

++++++

And for that matter, what alternative explanation can there possibly be for the fact of Christ's resurrection, three days after a powerful earthquake and three hours of pitch blackness - recorded by the secular world at the time - accompanied His crucifixion?
In statement analysis, 3 is known as the liars number (Mark McClish)  When  a guilty person spins a story that is not entirely truthful, when asked for example what time did you last see them, how many were there, what floor etc often they will use the number 3.
The exception is when DUI when the subject will often say 2 or just a couple.

In the bible there is an awful lot of the use of the number 3.

Bear in mind the bible has been translanted and rewritten thousands of times to suit whoever was in charge at the time.

Basically the king James bible was a result of King James forcing the Church of England and the Puritans to work togeather to come up with a version that kept both sides happy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by Tony Bennett on 30.12.14 23:27

@Hobs wrote:
In statement analysis, 3 is known as the liars number (Mark McClish).  When a guilty person spins a story that is not entirely truthful, when asked for example what time did you last see them, how many were there, what floor etc often they will use the number 3. The exception is when DUI when the subject will often say 2 or just a couple.

REPLY: I bow to your vastly superior knowledge on statement analysis, and so far as '3' being the 'liar's number' (or sometimes '2') is concerned, I'll have to take that on trust for now.

'3' is also recommended by the way as an oratorial technique, e.g.  "When we come to power, I promise that we'll do A, B and C" hopefully building up to a round of applause as the speaker finishes point 'C'. Or, for example, Tony Blair's famous three priorities: 'Education, education, education'. Politicians are taught to practise this 'rule of 3'. May be it is also an aid to memory for the speaker.

It is one thing to say: 'Liars often mention things in threes'. I can't disagree, as I don't know enough about the subject. 

But it's quite another thing, and a complete non sequitur, to claim: "I know a book with lots of threes in it, therefore it must be full of lies". It doesn't follow at all.

In the Bible there is an awful lot of the use of the number 3.

REPLY:  There are indeed several instances of three in the Bible, the Triune God - God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit - being one such example. There is no doubt that some numbers have special significance in the Bible; I believe God is inter alia a brilliant mathematician as well as designer and creator. But arguably other numbers are more common and seem to represent certain things. Examples:

7 is the six days of creation plus one day of rest, also applied in the Old Testamant to the treatment of land and servants; one year in seven, the land was to remain fallow - for rest - and any servants were to be set free after six years and made free of any debts they owed. Additionally after 7 x 7 years, there was to be a special, additional 'jubilee year' in the 50th year - the land therefore remained fallow for 2 years   


12 - twelve sons of Jacob to form the twelve tribes of Israel; 12 apostles chosen by Christ

13 - a number which appears to be connected with evil in the Bible and seems to be favoured by occultists

40 - years or days of temptation: 40 years in the wilderness for the Israelites after the Exodus, 40 days of temptation for Christ.

There are other interesting assocations; 8 seems to be associated with resurrection: 8 resurrections occur in the Bible


Bear in mind the Bible has been translated and rewritten thousands of times to suit whoever was in charge at the time.

REPLY: The Bible has never been 're-written'. The Bible, in its many translations worldwide - hundreds if not thousands of languages - is always derived from the original writings of the authors. These have been copied down the centuries. These copies were not entirely error-free, but copying mistakes were rare. 

Christians worldwide believe that those who wrote the words of the Bible - in the original Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek - did so under divine direction or 'inspiration, producing a book that is God's Word to mankind, and without error as originally written. And no-one has yet proved any mistake so far as the Bible's historical and prophetic record is concerned; where the Bible deals in verifiable facts, time and again it has proved 100% accurate. Godly men before and after Christ have, we believe, been led by God over the centuries to produce this perfect book. It is sadly the case that some people, for wrong motives, have tried to add to it or subtract from it.

Basically the King James Bible was a result of King James forcing the Church of England and the Puritans to work togeather to come up with a version that kept both sides happy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version

REPLY: That's very true up to a point. King Alfred had translated parts of the Bible. John Wycliffe followed in the 14th century and gave us a very accurate translation. He was up against the Roman Catholic hierarchy of the day, who used a Latin Bible and later, in the 15th century, deemed it a capital offence to have a Bible in the English language.

After his death, they exhumed his body, burnt it, and cast his ashes into the River Soar at Lutterworth, Leicesterhsire - not far from Rothley. Thereby they hoped to extinguish his translation and his writings, but instead they spread to Europe where they were read by the likes of Jan Hus and Martin Luther.

The Reformation followed shortly after the invention of the printing press, and in the 16th century several attempts were made to translate the original Hebrew and Greek texts, notably the translation by William Tyndale. King James did indeed commission a new translation and to his credit, after 7 years' hard work, the Anglicans, Puritans and Catholics etc. agreed on a meticulous translation of the original Scriptures which has very much stood the test of time
             

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by aquila on 30.12.14 23:47

I find the obsession with the number 3 as an indication of a lie quite tedious to explain lies.

Things happen in life. Sometimes they come in two's or three's, even fours or fives!

There is also regional consideration.

I've seen on the forum breakdown of phrases like 'come through', which if you're from a family of Scots doesn't warrant a breakdown, it's regional, it means nothing more than come through the threshold of a door...just as an English person would say 'come in'.

Is the holy trinity now a lie because it was based on the number three?

I'll vote a number two on that theory.

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by Hobs on 31.12.14 0:42

When someone uses the number three in relation to something, it doesn't instantly mean they are being deceptive, it does happen that there were three men or it was three o'clock or there were three items etc, it does mean however that it is noted and investigated further.

Regarding other numbers mention by Tony in regard to the bible, they are not flagged as a liars number.

Three is flagged for the reasons given.
Over decades of interviews, statements etc, it has been noted that three often comes up when someone is being deceptive and they have to choose a number such as number of assailants, the time something did or didn't happen and the like.

A classic example is tha of charlie rogers and her allegedly being stripped and assaulted by three intruders who then daubed graffiti on her basement walls and set fire to the house.

I heard of this case when it broke and caught her initial statement.

it sounded off so i spoke to Peter Hyatt regarding her statement, i was later proven right when she was charged and plead guilty to making the whole thing up.

I disagree the people has not been rewritten.

it has and frequently.

Translations  made to suit the current guy in charge, selective retelling of who did what to whom, subtle changes, translations of translations.

The bible is a work of fiction designed to keep the poor majority happy with promises of a better life in heaven, even if their current life is poor and harsh now.

The same goes for every religion, it boils down to individual interpretation and what the reader wants to believe or needs to believe.

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by Realist on 31.12.14 20:42

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Hobs wrote:
In statement analysis, 3 is known as the liars number (Mark McClish).  When a guilty person spins a story that is not entirely truthful, when asked for example what time did you last see them, how many were there, what floor etc often they will use the number 3. The exception is when DUI when the subject will often say 2 or just a couple.

REPLY: I bow to your vastly superior knowledge on statement analysis, and so far as '3' being the 'liar's number' (or sometimes '2') is concerned, I'll have to take that on trust for now.

'3' is also recommended by the way as an oratorial technique, e.g.  "When we come to power, I promise that we'll do A, B and C" hopefully building up to a round of applause as the speaker finishes point 'C'. Or, for example, Tony Blair's famous three priorities: 'Education, education, education'. Politicians are taught to practise this 'rule of 3'. May be it is also an aid to memory for the speaker.

It is one thing to say: 'Liars often mention things in threes'. I can't disagree, as I don't know enough about the subject. 

But it's quite another thing, and a complete non sequitur, to claim: "I know a book with lots of threes in it, therefore it must be full of lies". It doesn't follow at all.

In the Bible there is an awful lot of the use of the number 3.

REPLY:  There are indeed several instances of three in the Bible, the Triune God - God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit - being one such example. There is no doubt that some numbers have special significance in the Bible; I believe God is inter alia a brilliant mathematician as well as designer and creator. But arguably other numbers are more common and seem to represent certain things. Examples:

7 is the six days of creation plus one day of rest, also applied in the Old Testamant to the treatment of land and servants; one year in seven, the land was to remain fallow - for rest - and any servants were to be set free after six years and made free of any debts they owed. Additionally after 7 x 7 years, there was to be a special, additional 'jubilee year' in the 50th year - the land therefore remained fallow for 2 years   


12 - twelve sons of Jacob to form the twelve tribes of Israel; 12 apostles chosen by Christ

13 - a number which appears to be connected with evil in the Bible and seems to be favoured by occultists

40 - years or days of temptation: 40 years in the wilderness for the Israelites after the Exodus, 40 days of temptation for Christ.

There are other interesting assocations; 8 seems to be associated with resurrection: 8 resurrections occur in the Bible


Bear in mind the Bible has been translated and rewritten thousands of times to suit whoever was in charge at the time.

REPLY: The Bible has never been 're-written'. The Bible, in its many translations worldwide - hundreds if not thousands of languages - is always derived from the original writings of the authors. These have been copied down the centuries. These copies were not entirely error-free, but copying mistakes were rare. 

Christians worldwide believe that those who wrote the words of the Bible - in the original Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek - did so under divine direction or 'inspiration, producing a book that is God's Word to mankind, and without error as originally written. And no-one has yet proved any mistake so far as the Bible's historical and prophetic record is concerned; where the Bible deals in verifiable facts, time and again it has proved 100% accurate. Godly men before and after Christ have, we believe, been led by God over the centuries to produce this perfect book. It is sadly the case that some people, for wrong motives, have tried to add to it or subtract from it.

Basically the King James Bible was a result of King James forcing the Church of England and the Puritans to work togeather to come up with a version that kept both sides happy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version

REPLY: That's very true up to a point. King Alfred had translated parts of the Bible. John Wycliffe followed in the 14th century and gave us a very accurate translation. He was up against the Roman Catholic hierarchy of the day, who used a Latin Bible and later, in the 15th century, deemed it a capital offence to have a Bible in the English language.

After his death, they exhumed his body, burnt it, and cast his ashes into the River Soar at Lutterworth, Leicesterhsire - not far from Rothley. Thereby they hoped to extinguish his translation and his writings, but instead they spread to Europe where they were read by the likes of Jan Hus and Martin Luther.

The Reformation followed shortly after the invention of the printing press, and in the 16th century several attempts were made to translate the original Hebrew and Greek texts, notably the translation by William Tyndale. King James did indeed commission a new translation and to his credit, after 7 years' hard work, the Anglicans, Puritans and Catholics etc. agreed on a meticulous translation of the original Scriptures which has very much stood the test of time
             

Memo to myself, never argue with Anthony Bennett on biblical matters big grin

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Re: McCanns' Christmas Message 2014

Post by tiny on 31.12.14 20:46

your learning big grin

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