Another look at the Last photo

I now think the PJ have the original colour digital photos tucked away somewhere (well hopefully).

I think they printed them off for case documents in box files.

Then scanned the box files for release when the case was shelved.

I'm guessing their information systems are still pretty basic and they don't (or didn't) have a good IT system for collating data (it costs a lot of money, ask Scotland Yard).

I am still extremely puzzled by the lack of who/where analysis.

It is really bog standard policing.

I would suggest that the photos in the released files (which the PJ would know could be available to the public) have deliberately scanned to a poor resolution. Surely it wouldn't be acceptable to release full good definition photos into the public domain (nobody was proven guilty so you can't release photos). Guesswork but I can't see any better reason, I don't believe the McCanns gave them a poor a copy as we are seeing.

eta I agree with BB (there's a first time for everything  )

BlueBag wrote:I am still extremely puzzled by the lack of who/where analysis.

It is really bog standard policing.

Quite so, hence my recent comment about the lack of detail beyond receiving the photographs by the hand of Gerry McCann and Michael Wright and visualizing/analysing them.

Whatever, the groups holiday photographs were required to assist the investigation - they didn't assist the investigation!  One can witter on about the grey scale/black and white photographs ad-infinitum but at the end of the day, as I originally said, they don't signify.

What does signify is total absence of identifiable Madeleine photographs other than the playground - and for that matter, as you say, some positive indication as to who/when/where.  More important still, the missing poolside and tennis court photographs!

I can't/will'nt (delete as applicable) take the credit for this lengthy discussion about the photographs supplied to the PJ by Gerry McCann and Michael Wright, ostensibly to assist the investigation but an explanation from a source close to the family might be of some assistance to determine the provenance of all these obscure images and more to the point - from whence did the aforementioned missing photographs originate if not from the McCann camera/s?

Does anyone else believe the Black/White pics and the greyscale are likely from Paynes camera?

All of them with originals in 'drawers' and scanned or photocopied for release of file pages.

I still have not found the details regarding the Cameras of Gerry McCann, Michael Wright and Foster etc.

Here is one page I havent had chance to study

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VIDEO_MEMORY.htm


NALF/1 Video tape from Sony Handicam Video Camera
NALF/2 64 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50
NALF/3 32 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50

HiDeHo wrote:Does anyone else believe the Black/White pics and the greyscale are likely from Paynes camera?

All of them with originals in 'drawers' and scanned or photocopied for release of file pages.

I still have not found the details regarding the Cameras of Gerry McCann, Michael Wright and Foster etc.

Here is one page I havent had chance to study

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VIDEO_MEMORY.htm


NALF/1 Video tape from Sony Handicam Video Camera
NALF/2 64 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50
NALF/3 32 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50

Just having a read of the link Lizzy and this hit me, not sure why because it all requires further investigation and I am a large sheet of paper and a pencil type of researcher and not got chance right now, but the dats mention, or lack of did make me go 

13. On checking the camera I found that the time and date was not set on the camera and it was recording the time and date as 0000 hours on 01/01/02. This did not change during the examination. None of the pictures SWM/3019/01 to SWM/3019/43 have any created dates recorded. The last written time and date for each of them is recorded as 0000 01/01/02.

14. Last Accessed represents the date the file as last examined. Whether the Last Accessed Date is triggered depends on the nature of the examination. Opening a file will trigger the Last Accessed Date, as will looking at the file properties and browsing the file structure with Windows Explorer. Examining a file on 'write protected media' such as a floppy disk will not trigger this date, neither will examining a file on a compact disk or DVD.

15. Last Written represents the time and date that the contents of the file was last changed. The Last Written date and time is unchanged by the process of copying a file from one drive to another.

16. The creation date and time of the file is usually when it is written to the surface of the disk, subject to the accuracy of the computer clock that was used to perform this task. When this date and time is seen to be after the last written date and time it shows that the files has been transferred from another media.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/OUSTROS_APENSOS_3_8.htm

3 missing pages and 5 blank pages... WHY?  (43 other pages blank in total files)

HiDeHo wrote:I still have not found the details regarding the Cameras of Gerry McCann, Michael Wright and Foster etc.

Here is one page I havent had chance to study

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VIDEO_MEMORY.htm


NALF/1 Video tape from Sony Handicam Video Camera
NALF/2 64 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50
NALF/3 32 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50

Didn't PeterMac do extensive work on this aspect many moons ago?  I've had a quick search but can't find anything at present - will have another look when I have more time.

I created this graphic using Peter's comments but I see he notes the photos are in the files for inspection.  However the only photos I see are the black while ones and greyscale which seem to be attributed to the Tapas group as per the above post.

Was that the extent of PeterMac's work on the subject?  If so I apologise, I thought he went into a lot more detail.

I recall his research was vehemently criticized outside this forum (nothing new there!) which I could only defend because PeterMac's interpretation of available information was in accord with my own.  The argument against was an authorative (?) insistence that all the photographic equipment analysed by the Hampshire police belonged to the Foster family, my understanding was that the Fosters only volunteered video footage recorded in the PJ files as follows..

08-03-Other Exhibits 8 VOL 03 Page 541 542

Report on Visualisation and Analysis of Photographs

On this date, I can inform that photographs from a CD provided by Leicestershire police were visualised and analysed, these referred to photographs taken by the F***** family during their holidays at the OC between the 28th April and 5th May 2007.

Upon analysing these photos, the result was that there was at least one photograph where some of the elements making up the group of friends of the McCann couple were visualised, nothing relevant being found for the investigation.

Portimao, 23rd May 2007.

Inspector  Ricardo Paiva

Incident History Records

8th May 2007:  Email received from Leicestershire police

Would you kindly permit an officer to visit Mrs F*****?. She has recently been on holiday to the MW complex and is in possession of video footage taken by her husband. It is understood that the footage is currently contained on their home computer. The allocated officer will need to review the footage and all footage of the complex should be downloaded onto a suitable storage disc. Mr F**** has indicated that it probably only consists of a thirty second pan of the playground area/pool area/Tapas bar. Mr and Mrs F are not technically competent to download the data. Please statement accordingly re exhibit continuity.

I have spoken to Mr F this morning and he has been advised that local officers will make contact with his wife.

If possible please send a copy to me for initial viewing in the Incident Room

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FOSTER.htm

----------
As can be seen, no mention of cameras, only video footage.  I therefore conclude, as I think PeterMac did, that the two cameras submitted for analysis belonged to the McCanns or their friends, i.e. the grey scale/black and white images contained in the PJ files. 

My only query here is why camera equipment and/or CDs, passed to the PJ by the McCann group in Portugal, would be sent to the UK for analysis but Leicestershire Constabulary's involvement in this case is forever a mystery to me.

Peter did lots of work on the subject but I still maintain that the black white pics refer to this

Outros Apensos Vol VIII

Page 553

Service Information

08 ? 05 ? 2007

To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation

From: Hugo Ferreira, Inspector


Subject: Annexing of photographic stills to the process files


I am pleased to inform you that today we were given photographic stills taken during the holiday period in Portugal from 28th April by the English families that compose the group that Madeleine Beth was with, so that they can be annexed to the process files.igned
Inspector Hugo Ferreira







As opposed to being Gerry McCanns pics.  Why would anyone think that the McCanns camera would be taking shots of the Paynes, their children and Dianne Webster and the Paraiso?

I think if someone can contact Amaral and he has access to the colour versions (you never know) there might be some fruitful avenues to explore there with the research that has been done since.

Or he can speak to his mates.

Imagine the rogatory interviews.... "and when was this taken?"

HiDeHo wrote:As opposed to being Gerry McCanns pics.  Why would anyone think that the McCanns camera would be taking shots of the Paynes, their children and Dianne Webster and the Paraiso?

It wasn't only the McCanns camera though was it - indeed this is somewhat like the saga of the mobile phones, who had what when where and why.

The CD's in the possession of the PJ (the greyscale/black and white images) were, according to the PJ files, handed over by Gerry McCann and Michael Wright - now what exactly did any of this have to do with Michael Wright?  He wasn't on holiday with them, nor was his partner Michelle who Kate McCann was so eager to contact in the middle of the night and who promptly rushed to Portugal to lend a helping hand.  I repeat..

Other Proceedings Vol VIII

Page 550

NUIPC 201 / 07.0 GALGS

Visualisation and Analysis of Photographs

On this date, I state que the photographs contained on the CD delivered to this police force by Michael Wright, the relation of the McCann couple, Relating to the holiday period que the McCann family spent at the Ocean Club in PdL, beginning on the 28th April 2007.

The visualization and analysis of These images que was carried in October Reveals que there are Several photographs of interest to the investigation, in Which it is possible to visualize Madeleine McCann, as well as different adults and children que made up the group of friends who Were on holiday together with the McCann couple in PdL, Which is why These photographs, joined to the report, Were printed.

Portimao, 09 May 2007

Signed by Inspector Ricardo Paiva
----------

Having said all that, I don't think this leads anywhere other than confirmation of the absence of photographs of Madeleine McCann other than those taken at the Ocean Club playground area (most likely taken on their day of arrival) and the scarcity of holiday photographs of the McCann family and their group of friends.  Not forgetting the question why was the poolside and peculiar tennis court photograph missing from the data provided?

BlueBag wrote:Imagine the rogatory interviews.... "and when was this taken?"

Yeah .. well no, err mmm, not sure but .. erm, well it could have been you know erm .. no that was when Jane was playing tennis at the you know Tapas with err .. no, that werent it cos I was at the beach you know with Rus .. you know, when he fell in the water [laughs] .. mmm now let me think..

Take your time..

Yeah its hard you know after all this time - any chance I can see my other statements [laughs] .. no but I cant you know quite put my finger on when.  It could have been err mmm .. no I dont think that was it - I remember it was raining you know cos Fiona had her wellies and souwester on - and very fetching she looked [laughs] - she was chatting - you know like -to some man she met but he didn't look like a tourist - so no it wasn't then..  mmm let me think again .. I'm trying very hard here you know .. mmm ..

Tell me - what was the question again?

I think there are THREE still cameras involved:

1 The McCanns Canon Powershot
2 The Paynes' camera - make unknown (deduced from the number of shots featuring the Paynes)
3 The Olympus of Nigel Foster which he handed in at Hampshire Police in early May, and which either Leics Police or the PJ said 'contained nothing of interest'.

If both Michael Wright and Alex Woolfall clicked the 'greyscale' option, and not the 'colour' option, when transferring the edited and cropped mages on to their two disks, that would be wholly consistent with an intention to disinform rather than to inform

Verdi wrote:

If I'm mistaken about the Foster equipment then I stand corrected - I don't recall reading anything to confirm that they handed over a camera.  Leaving the Fosters aside for the moment, as I believe they were only trying to help the investigation, there is one simple factor that can't be dismissed. The PJ required all the photographs taken by the McCanns and their group of friends during the week of their holiday.  The most logical way would have been for all the group to immediately  hand over their cameras, or failing that to hand over whatever storage device straight from the camera - but they didn't did they.  No, instead they take it upon themselves to transfer carefully selected photographs from two or more cameras onto CDs to pass to the PJ. Now why would they do that?

I said similar yesterday #771
It's a very interesting question, because I believe that is what most people would do if asked by the police.


The lack of photos of Madeleine with her family during this holiday is very disconcerting. Where are the photos of her with her brother and sister, or with the other children, or with her mother. This is a main reason why people with kids have cameras, isn't it?
Seems strange that Kate runs off for a camera to catch the Tennis Balls pic, (or did she) but can't take any photos while they're all together as a family unit in the apartment.

Too weird!

Could someone enlighten me please.  I am getting confused. It all seems normal to me. If anyone is in disagreement I would like to understand why...

This is how I perceive it:


Photos were received from McCanns friends.  I believe these are the B/W pictures and greyscale.

B/W were copied on to a file page (similar to many other photos in files) and some were scanned to produce the greyscale pics.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gerry delivered a CD.  Michael Wright delivered a CD

A CD was delivered by Gerry McCann on May 9th

Location of these photos unknown

CLICK TO OPEN -A CD was delivered by Gerry McCann on May 9th:

A CD was delivered by Michael Wright on May 9th


Location of these photos unknown

CLICK TO OPEN -  A CD was delivered by Michael Wright on May 9th:

On May 9th Stuart Martin opened a sealed bag contaning two memory cards The 64 MB was in the Olympus C50 camera and the 32 MB memory card was in a holder.

He located 43 photos and put them on a compact disk SWM/3019/44

He made a report of the photos SWM3019/45

He located 73 picture files in unallocated clusters  which had been deleted and no longer accessible to camera user.

23. When the data is extracted from the unallocated clusters there are not imes and dates or file names attributed to the data. My forensic software therefore saved the data in file format and named the files according to the location of the data within the unallocated clusters.






Hugo Ferreira says Photographic stills from the group were given to them on May 8th

Are these the b/w greyscale photos?

CLICK TO OPEN - Hugo Ferreira says Photographic stills from the group were given to them on May 8th:

On  May 8th an officer was asked to visit Foster family to retrieve video footage


Location of these footage unknown

CLICK TO OPEN - On May 8th an officer was asked to visit Foster family to retrieve video footage:

Original from Files in English

CLICK TO OPEN - Original from Files in English:

May 23rd Report on visualisation and analysis of Foster photographs


Location of these photos unknown

CLICK T OPEN - May 23rd Report on visualisation and analysis of Foster photographs:

Tony Bennett wrote:I think there are THREE still cameras involved:

1 The McCanns Canon Powershot
2 The Paynes' camera - make unknown (deduced from the number of shots featuring the Paynes)
3 The Olympus of Nigel Foster which he handed in at Hampshire Police in early May, and which either Leics Police or the PJ said 'contained nothing of interest'.

If both Michael Wright and Alex Woolfall clicked the 'greyscale' option, and not the 'colour' option, when transferring the edited and cropped mages on to their two disks, that would be wholly consistent with an intention to disinform rather than to inform

 

The camera analysed by the police was the Olympus C50 and although there is no record of when the camera was passed to them, Stuart Martin opened a sealed bag with the camera inside.  Likely belonging to Fosters.

He retrieved 60MB card FROM the camera and a 32 MB card in a holder.

He retrieved 43 pic and 73 deleted photos.

Fosters video  (they were visited at home) or any of their photos dont appear to be available in the files.  The video was passed to Hampshire Police Support headquarters, Netley for examination by Stuart Martin


------

We dont know how many cameras were involved regarding the B/W photos.  

English Family Photos wrote:08 ? 05 ? 2007

To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation

From: Hugo Ferreira, Inspector


Subject: Annexing of photographic stills to the process files


I am pleased to inform you that today we were given photographic stills taken during the holiday period in Portugal from 28th April by the English families that compose the group that Madeleine Beth was with, so that they can be annexed to the process files.igned
Inspector Hugo Ferreira

Regarding the tampering, I have always thought they were  reduced in quality by photocopying to add three to a page for files release is the likely explanation of the B/W photos which appear to be the photos referred to as belonging to the English families.

I see that I may be wrong here...

The Sony videocam and the Olympus C50 were delivered in the same bag and likey ALL from the Fosters.

This means that the 43 photos and the 73 photos in unallocated clusters would belong to Fosters...

I apologise.  I have always been under the impression that Gerry's camera was an Olympus C50.

Which leads me to my next question.

Do we know the camera that Gerry used?

(I have tried to edit my incorrect posts above.  Please let me know if there are any portions I missed ) :)

HiDeHo wrote:I see that I may be wrong here...

The Sony videocam and the Olympus C50 were delivered in the same bag and likey ALL from the Fosters.

This means that the 43 photos and the 73 photos in unallocated clusters would belong to Fosters...

I apologise.  I have always been under the impression that Gerry's camera was an Olympus C50.

Which leads me to my next question.

So do we know the camera that Gerry used?

@ HideHo    I don't think we have any evidence at all that Gerry had a camera of his own on that holiday

I remember a quote, probably from Gerry himself,f saying that it was Kate who was the photographer in the family as he had little interest in this.

David Payne on the other hand, was a very keen photographer who always had a camera to hand

Tony Bennett wrote:

HiDeHo wrote:I see that I may be wrong here...

The Sony videocam and the Olympus C50 were delivered in the same bag and likey ALL from the Fosters.

This means that the 43 photos and the 73 photos in unallocated clusters would belong to Fosters...

I apologise.  I have always been under the impression that Gerry's camera was an Olympus C50.

Which leads me to my next question.

So do we know the camera that Gerry used?

@ HideHo    I don't think we have any evidence at all that Gerry had a camera of his own on that holiday

Thanks Tony.  It just goes to show you how discussions and checking the files helps to get to the truth.

I have always been of the belief that the last picture was taken on the Canon which Kate was looking at while Gerry was claiming to have given his to the police... 

I obviously read it incorrectly ... maybe I didn't.   The reason I realised I was wrong was because after compiling all the file info I realised that the Sony handicam and the Olympus C50 were delivered in the same bag after the visit to the Fosters.

Gerry and Michael Wright delivered CDs.  Hence I realised my mistake.

But this does not agree with it...

HiDeHo wrote:Could someone enlighten me please.  I am getting confused. It all seems normal to me. If anyone is in disagreement I would like to understand why...

To recapitulate.

On 8th May 2007 Inspector Hugo Ferreira wrote to the Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation, I quote..

"I am pleased to inform you that today we were given photographic stills taken during the holiday period in Portugal from 28th April by the English families that compose the group that Madeleine Beth was with, so that they can be annexed to the process files."

On 9th May 2007 Ricardo Paiva wrote the following report..

Visualization and Analysis of Photographs

On this date, I state that the photographs contained on a CD delivered to this police force by Gerald McCann have been visualized and analyzed some of them are from the holiday period that the McCann family spent at the Ocean Club in PdL, beginning on the 28th April 2007.

The visualisation and analysis of these images that was carried out reveals that there are several photographs of interest to the investigation, in which it is possible to visualise Madeleine McCann.

and on the same date..

Visualization and Analysis of Photographs

On this date, I state that the photographs contained on a CD delivered to this police force by Michael Wright, a relation of the McCann couple, relating to the holiday period that the McCann family spent at the Ocean Club in PdL, beginning on the 28th April 2007.

The visualisation and analysis of these images that was carried out reveals that  here are several photographs of interest to the investigation, in which it is possible to visualise Madeleine McCann, as well as different adults and children that made up the group of friends who were on holiday together with the McCann couple in PdL, which is why these photographs, joined to the report, were printed.
----------

A paper trail I venture to suggest.  The CDs initially passed through the office of Hugo Ferreira on 8th May and were then passed on for visualization and analysation, as recorded by Ricardo Paiva, on 9th May 2007?  In short one and the same collection of photographs?  I can't think of a single logical reason why the PJ would double up on a single aspect of the investigation.

Just a thought.

Moving on to the Fosters - the equipment received by Hampshire Constabulary for forensic examination was delivered by Leicestershire Constabulary, the UK case coordinators at the time.   I see no reason to assume that the one package only contained the Fosters photographs/equipment.  Looking at it from another angle - an officer from Hampshire police was visiting the Foster home to download footage onto a CD as they were not technically competent so, why would they send a camera and/or memory card  to Leicestershire police only for them to send it back to Hampshire for analysis, when an officer was going to the Foster home anyway - the Fosters being resident in Hampshire?

In both cases the dates coincide - the 8th and 9th May 2007.  Is this to be presumed yet another coincidence to be brushed aside?

Just a thought.

Verdi:
 
'Moving on to the Fosters - the equipment received by Hampshire Constabulary for forensic examination was delivered by Leicestershire Constabulary, the UK case coordinators at the time.' 
 
I think this is incorrect and will only confuse people, especially as you seem to go on to suggest that the camera was bobbing backwards and forwards between Leicester and Southampton which I don't think was ever the case.

Leicester police requested Southampton police, at lunchtime on 8th May, to visit the Fosters:

'Would you kindly permit an officer to visit Mrs F*****?. She has recently been on holiday to the MW complex and is in possession of video footage taken by her husband. It is understood that the footage is currently contained on their home computer. The allocated officer will need to review the footage and all footage of the complex should be downloaded onto a suitable storage disc. Mr F**** has indicated that it probably only consists of a thirty second pan of the playground area/pool area/Tapas bar. Mr and Mrs F are not technically competent to download the data. Please statement accordingly re exhibit continuity.

I have spoken to Mr F this morning and he has been advised that local officers will make contact with his wife.

If possible please send a copy to me for initial viewing in the Incident Room'

 
DC Martin’s statement said:
 
'2. On 8th May at 21.00 hours, the following was delivered to my home address by PC 178 Barham, requesting they be examined to establish if they contained pictures and video footage of a hotel complex in Praia da Luz.'
 
and I don’t think it was ever established who PC178 Barham actually was, and where he appeared from, but I may be wrong.
 
It would seem most likely that he was the local copper who had been sent round to the Foster’s house to collect the video footage, discovered they had some camera shots as well and so took the whole lot for examination.

As requested, copies of the photos/videos were then sent to Leicester for examination and these were duly forwarded to Inspector Paiva on 23rd May, but apparently showing nothing of relevance:


Upon analysing these photos, the result was that there was at least one photograph where some of the elements making up the group of friends of the McCann couple were visualised, nothing relevant being found for the investigation.'  - Insp. R. Paiva.
 
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t7718p60-alex-woolfall-knows-the-last-photo-and-other-photos-of-madeleine-in-praia-da-luz#176361