Re: 'Looking for Madeleine' by Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan - My response to their enquiries

by Liz Eagles 28.07.14 22:16

canada12 wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
canada12 wrote:
In other words, the act of speculating is unfounded. The authors may very well have come to a solid conclusion, as opposed to a speculation, and the solid conclusion may be just the opposite of what they're stating the speculation might be.

I think you may be committing the offence of attributing more intelligence and intellectual acumen and wit to the authors then they may deserve !

Damn. Just trying to be optimistic.
To hell with that idea then. :-)

awww bless you canada12.

It's a bit like hoping the bewk 'madeleine by KATE MCCANN' would be about Madeleine.

PeterMac has some interesting statistics on wordcount in the bewk.

by Okeydokey 28.07.14 22:28

The point I would like to make is that this (Summers) is the first author of any real substance to tackle the story...

Isn't that in itself amazing? - after 7 years.

This is the biggest ever crime story in the UK, and has all the elements of mystery and human tragedy that a reader might want. In other words, any truly definitive account could earn tens of millions of pounds across the world. Publishers are not known for holding back in such circumstances.

So why 7 years later have we seen no book?

I feel sure lots of well known writers have considered the project and then rejected it, reluctantly in many cases no doubt - but not because they are fans of the McCanns.

by aiyoyo 29.07.14 4:36

aquila wrote:
canada12 wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
canada12 wrote:
In other words, the act of speculating is unfounded. The authors may very well have come to a solid conclusion, as opposed to a speculation, and the solid conclusion may be just the opposite of what they're stating the speculation might be.

I think you may be committing the offence of attributing more intelligence and intellectual acumen and wit to the authors then they may deserve !

Damn. Just trying to be optimistic.
To hell with that idea then. :-)
awww bless you canada12.

It's a bit like hoping the bewk 'madeleine by KATE MCCANN' would be about Madeleine.

PeterMac has some interesting statistics on wordcount in the bewk.

We shall see whether S&S's bewk is going to mention Kate more times than Madeleine even though the bewk is titled "Search for Madeleine".

by aiyoyo 29.07.14 7:14

tigger wrote:From Wiki:

Summers became the BBC's youngest producer at 24, ..........
Before moving on from the BBC, Summers became an Assistant Editor of the prestigious weekly programme Panorama.
Long based in Ireland, he has since the mid-70s concentrated on investigative non-fiction, usually taking from four to five years to produce a book – conducting in-depth research, combining digging in the documentary record with exhaustive interviewing.[6][7]
Unquote

BBC? Panorama? That might explain his interest.
That begs the question: was his interest in this particular case because of his association to BBC or because of connection to associate colleagues?

If he keeps true to his habit of spending 4-5 years of investigative in-depth research and interviews then it would mean the book has been in the making for some years now before going into print.
It would be of interest for his readers to know what documentary records/archive he used, from where or from who he obtained translated version, who and how many people he interviewed, nr of times he interviewed them.

Did he interview investigators?
Did he interview other witnesses at the resort, hol. group T7, and other peripheral characters associated to the incident.
Did he interview M3, Kevin Halligen, Dave Edgar etc?
Did he interview Clarence Mitchell?

Not that he's going to get to the truth, except exhausting interviewing reported as being his style should mean comprising a variety of people.

by **tigger** 29.07.14 7:39

aiyoyo wrote:
tigger wrote:From Wiki:

Summers became the BBC's youngest producer at 24, ..........
Before moving on from the BBC, Summers became an Assistant Editor of the prestigious weekly programme Panorama.
Long based in Ireland, he has since the mid-70s concentrated on investigative non-fiction, usually taking from four to five years to produce a book – conducting in-depth research, combining digging in the documentary record with exhaustive interviewing.[6][7]
Unquote

BBC? Panorama? That might explain his interest.
That begs the question: was his interest in this particular case because of his association to BBC or because of connection to associate colleagues?

If he keeps true to his habit of spending 4-5 years of investigative in-depth research and interviews then it would mean the book has been in the making for some years now before going into print.
It would be of interest for his readers to know what documentary records/archive he used, from where or from who he obtained translated version, who and how many people he interviewed, nr of times he interviewed them.

Did he interview investigators?
Did he interview other witnesses at the resort, hol. group T7, and other peripheral characters associated to the incident.
Did he interview M3, Kevin Halligen, Dave Edgar etc?
Did he interview Clarence Mitchell?

Not that he's going to get to the truth, except exhausting interviewing reported as being his style should mean comprising a variety of people.

So we need to define 'exhaustive interviewing' :

Three months before the announcement of the publication we now know of two emails to resp. Pat Brown and TB.
Which I wouldn't class as interviewing, never mind exhaustive.

This husband and wife team, (Summers certainly seems to exhaust his supply of wives as Swan is nr. 4) strike me as defining research by using all previously published material, picking out the odd point/rumour and presenting it as new insights or new facts.
Case in point the Monroe book. i've read several versions of what happened long ago. Same MO in 9/11, 37 pages nobody has ever seen.
I predict endless rehashing of well known facts, other facts ignored and the same MO as their other work.

It's hardly surprising this book is ready to go now that the libel trial in Lisbon is to conclude this year. Just as well to have your innocence proclaimed in a new book, written by these searchers for truth and justice just asyour reputation takes a dive in some backward country. spin

by **PeterMac** 29.07.14 7:46

tigger wrote:
So we need to define 'exhaustive interviewing' :
Three months before the announcement of the publication we now know of two emails to resp. Pat Brown and TB.
Which I wouldn't class as interviewing, never mind exhaustive.

The list of questions is interesting, since they obviously knew the answers.
Were they merely trying to entrap TB ?

by **Tony Bennett** 29.07.14 8:20

PeterMac wrote:
The list of questions is interesting, since they obviously knew the answers.
Were they merely trying to entrap TB?

That thought crossed my mind when I first looked at the list of questions, PeterMac. I had to be very very careful with my answers. I gave them all reasonable assistance so, if I am mentioned by name in the book, they have my answers, which are on the record.

They purported to be journalists genuinely researching a story.

Clearly they were not; by the time they contacted me, they had obviously been planning this book for a long time, probably written most of it, and knew perfectly well who I was and what restrictions I was under. And they would long ago have known about 'mccannfiles' and all the dozens of other McCann-sceptic blogs; they didn't need to ask me about them.

I am sure that Summers and Swan have the seal of approval of the McCann Team, including the Team's lawyers and public relations, for the entire contents of their book.

One question is whether or not their book might be serialised in a British newspaper, along the lines of 'penetrative and comprehensive investigation by top journalist, author of this and that'.

Another question is whether the book's publication might well be carefully timed with some kind of significant statement from Redwood of the Yard - maybe suggesting that they are shortly going to conclude their investigation ('we tried so hard to find whodunnit but failed') and will shortly be submitting their final report to the Home Secretary.

by **tigger** 29.07.14 8:25

PeterMac wrote:
tigger wrote:
So we need to define 'exhaustive interviewing' :
Three months before the announcement of the publication we now know of two emails to resp. Pat Brown and TB.
Which I wouldn't class as interviewing, never mind exhaustive.
The list of questions is interesting, since they obviously knew the answers.
Were they merely trying to entrap TB ?

Yes, and for people exhaustively researching the subject they're asking a lot of questions when they could have found the answer by just very laid back research, such as googling MF.

The tone of the request is a little low-entry as well, chatty and friendly. No, I don't like this. It won't be a best seller imo unless the publishers market it as 'the solution' and even then, articles on Maddie have become as frequent as the weather report.

Eta. If they started this book about five years ago, can anyone remember what was going on then? big grin

by Guest 29.07.14 8:26

'Looking for Madeleine' by Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan - My response to their enquiries - Page 3 Eleventh_day_main_1980627f

This is anything but the ultimate account.

He's been ripped to shreds by people who actually know what they are talking about.

Anthony doesn't do the difficult questions.

by **PeterMac** 29.07.14 8:51

Tony Bennett wrote:
I am sure that Summers and Swan have the seal of approval of the McCann Team, including the Team's lawyers and public relations, for the entire contents of their book..

And we do not forget that the case against you depended on evidence which had been obtained by criminal activity - namely Fraud
Carter-Ruck were clearly guilty of Handling Stolen Goods, either as individuals or as a corporation,
Criminal activity obviously has the seal of approval from the McCann Team.
Which comes as no surprise, given their attempts to pervert the course of justice - in the form of making false statements to the PJ (Shutters, front door, patio door, curtains wide open, curtains closed . . )

And here is one, just to lighten the tone

'Looking for Madeleine' by Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan - My response to their enquiries - Page 3 -seal-of-approval_20120527001605

'Looking for Madeleine' by Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan - My response to their enquiries - Page 3 -seal-of-approval_20120527001605

by Guest 29.07.14 8:55

BlueBag wrote:

Man, is that for real?

You know that expression about judging a book by its cover?

That looks like somebody's GCSE project.

by Guest 29.07.14 9:04

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/bookreviews/8722787/The-Eleventh-Day-The-Ultimate-Account-of-911-by-Anthony-Summers-and-Robbyn-Swan-review.html

It's certainly the same cover in this review but it's different on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Eleventh-Day-Full-Story/dp/0812978099

by aiyoyo 29.07.14 9:13

PeterMac wrote:
tigger wrote:
So we need to define 'exhaustive interviewing' :
Three months before the announcement of the publication we now know of two emails to resp. Pat Brown and TB.
Which I wouldn't class as interviewing, never mind exhaustive.
The list of questions is interesting, since they obviously knew the answers.
Were they merely trying to entrap TB ?

Who directs him to TB and Pat Brown and Joana Morais?

These are people either gagged or targeted (Morais ?) by the mcs.

by aiyoyo 29.07.14 9:21

Tony Bennett wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
The list of questions is interesting, since they obviously knew the answers.
Were they merely trying to entrap TB?
That thought crossed my mind when I first looked at the list of questions, PeterMac. I had to be very very careful with my answers. I gave them all reasonable assistance so, if I am mentioned by name in the book, they have my answers, which are on the record.

They purported to be journalists genuinely researching a story.

Clearly they were not; by the time they contacted me, they had obviously been planning this book for a long time, probably written most of it, and knew perfectly well who I was and what restrictions I was under. And they would long ago have known about 'mccannfiles' and all the dozens of other McCann-sceptic blogs; they didn't need to ask me about them.

I am sure that Summers and Swan have the seal of approval of the McCann Team, including the Team's lawyers and public relations, for the entire contents of their book.

One question is whether or not their book might be serialised in a British newspaper, along the lines of 'penetrative and comprehensive investigation by top journalist, author of this and that'.

Another question is whether the book's publication might well be carefully timed with some kind of significant statement from Redwood of the Yard - maybe suggesting that they are shortly going to conclude their investigation ('we tried so hard to find whodunnit but failed') and will shortly be submitting their final report to the Home Secretary.

Ye, Lordie, surely they are not going to put the Mrs (Swan) in a summery frock posing on a lawn on the front pages of National titles to promote the serialisation, and say the profit will be donated to the Fund.

Summers is 71 years old and she must be not far off.

by Guest 29.07.14 9:26

http://www.robbynswan.com

She could be a lot younger.

by aiyoyo 29.07.14 9:34

tigger wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
tigger wrote:
So we need to define 'exhaustive interviewing' :
Three months before the announcement of the publication we now know of two emails to resp. Pat Brown and TB.
Which I wouldn't class as interviewing, never mind exhaustive.
The list of questions is interesting, since they obviously knew the answers.
Were they merely trying to entrap TB ?

Yes, and for people exhaustively researching the subject they're asking a lot of questions when they could have found the answer by just very laid back research, such as googling MF.

The tone of the request is a little low-entry as well, chatty and friendly. No, I don't like this. It won't be a best seller imo unless the publishers market it as 'the solution' and even then, articles on Maddie have become as frequent as the weather report.

Eta. If they started this book about five years ago, can anyone remember what was going on then?

Yes, after they were de-arguidoed and case shelved.

If book is based strictly on exhaustive studying and analysing of documentary records, process files, fora, blogs, as well as limited interview of some mcs, it can only be regurgitation of what was already in the public domain. It will be a very dry book, lacking the detailed nitty gritty juicy bits of suspense with substance that can enthrall readers. 71 years old summers with his few awards may be the only thing of substance where the book is concerned.

Unless he can match kate's inclusion in her bewk of her non-sex life, graphic account to do with her missing daughter's private part, her ill treatment under the hands of f.....tossers sardine munchers that she hated them so much she wished pain on one of them, or unless he can come up with detailed and descriptive definitive account of which swarthy bastard snatched Maddie, how he did it batman style, how he managed to escape,, explain why he believes she may still be alive held in which cave or dungeon as sex object, and why he believes her parents played no part in her fate etc.

Short of any imaginative account of the mysterious circumstances surrounding her disappearance and her possible whereabout, any account or version of that would then render the book to be fiction and not non-fiction, his book is seriously at risk of becoming white elephant on shelf.

Would he tour Europe to promote it? Would he use famous people to critic it to boost sale? We shall have to wait and see.

It's mind boggling that a man of substance with some awards under his belt would put his credibility on the line to publish a pro-mcs book when the investigation is ongoing and the verdict unknown.
Did he not consider how a verdict contrary to his would dent his good name?

by inspirespirit 29.07.14 9:46

It can only be a pro-mccann book. They are obviously not stupid people. They will have seen what happens to people who tell the truth.

If only someone could write a book telling the facts, chronologically and without bias, so it would be obvious it was a book about the McCanns but without using any of their names . I truly believe if Goncalos book could be published in this Country, along with another book of faction (supporting Goncalos facts but also purporting other theories, eg. death before 3rd with possible scenarios), they would be best sellers and would get the information out there for everyone to see and make up their own minds, instead of only getting the propoganda that TM feed us.

by aiyoyo 29.07.14 9:56

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:http://www.robbynswan.com

She could be a lot younger.

Perfect age for posing on the lawn in a short dress......He He !

by Truthandjustice 29.07.14 10:02

So assuming this book has been commissioned by MCs, or at the very least with their blessing, I am guessing that it will attempt to tie up several loose ends raised by the BEWK.Clearly that version of the truth left a couple of stones unturned and that now needs to be rectified - it will probably be telling in that respect. I find it absolutely fascinating that the MCs believe they can absolve themselves through PR and marketing. They probably gained confidence in this approach by the numerous out of court settlements. Things are quite different in a court of law as we have seen recently in Lisbon, and the MCs clearly struggle when THE truth is required of them.

by Guest 29.07.14 10:10

It has to discredit the dogs.

You can bet your life it will mention Haut de la Garenne.

Expect something like the example from Wiki page:

Criticism intensified after the November 2008 withdrawal by police of claims of evidence^[41] with the investigation being described variously as "farcical"^[42] and a "shambles".^[43] It was suggested that those leading the enquiry had leaped too readily to conclusions.^[44] The reliance on indications given by the same sniffer dogs criticised in connection with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann was also questioned

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_child_abuse_investigation_2008

I only heard criticism of the dogs from one source in the Madeleine case.

I don't believe the dogs were wrong at the children's home either.

by aiyoyo 29.07.14 10:28

Truthandjustice wrote:So assuming this book has been commissioned by MCs, or at the very least with their blessing, I am guessing that it will attempt to tie up several loose ends raised by the BEWK.Clearly that version of the truth left a couple of stones unturned and that now needs to be rectified - it will probably be telling in that respect. I find it absolutely fascinating that the MCs believe they can absolve themselves through PR and marketing. They probably gained confidence in this approach by the numerous out of court settlements. Things are quite different in a court of law as we have seen recently in Lisbon, and the MCs clearly struggle when THE truth is required of them.

Err.....not quite correct. He was never quizzed about the truth. Not even touch on in Court.
If that were to happen they will stand no chance against the lawyers.

They were on the stand to give emotive statements in persons about how the book affected them.
Nothing more was required of them.
The judge told Gerry to shut up when he tried to introduce dogs evidence, saying that is not the remit of case in court.
The libel case is not about determining of whether facts in the book are true or not.
It's about testing the validity or otherwise of their claims that the contents of the book affect them emotionally and damage their social standing. Amaral himself confirmed this in his latest msg on facebook.

by Liz Eagles 29.07.14 10:38

Exhaustive research?

Would that be reading a few things on various fora, skimming through the released pj files, skimming through media articles, choosing 'protagonists' and 'interviewing' them by email shortly before your masterpiece is released and doing it by introducing yourself as a journalist?

A big cherry picking, money making venture is what I see - I hope I'm wrong.

Things that make you go mmmm once again.

No publisher will touch anything that isn't pro McCann. Publishers aren't freedom fighters.

Amazon won't sell Pat Brown's book.

Goncalo's book isn't published in the English language.

Tony Bennett was duped into handing over a copy of his book to someone who told him it was for research to do an article - that same person stood in the dock at the contempt of court trial and said he lied. (A big hello to Alan Tipperton who smirked as he left the court).

The UK media...well they'll publish anything pro McCann as it's guaranteed not to be sued.

Just my lil' take on things.

by Guest 29.07.14 10:40

aquila wrote:Exhaustive research?

Would that be reading a few things on various fora, skimming through the released pj files, skimming through media articles, choosing 'protagonists' and 'interviewing' them by email shortly before your masterpiece is released and doing it by introducing yourself as a journalist?

A big cherry picking, money making venture is what I see - I hope I'm wrong.

Things that make you go mmmm once again.

No publisher will touch anything that isn't pro McCann. Publishers aren't freedom fighters.

Amazon won't sell Pat Brown's book.

Goncalo's book isn't published in the English language.

Tony Bennett was duped into handing over a copy of his book to someone who told him it was for research to do an article - that same person stood in the dock at the contempt of court trial and said he lied. (A big hello to Alan Tipperton who smirked as he left the court).

The UK media...well they'll publish anything pro McCann as it's guaranteed not to be sued.

Just my lil' take on things.

But if it libels GA let's hope he sues them.

by Liz Eagles 29.07.14 10:52

dantezebu wrote:
aquila wrote:Exhaustive research?

Would that be reading a few things on various fora, skimming through the released pj files, skimming through media articles, choosing 'protagonists' and 'interviewing' them by email shortly before your masterpiece is released and doing it by introducing yourself as a journalist?

A big cherry picking, money making venture is what I see - I hope I'm wrong.

Things that make you go mmmm once again.

No publisher will touch anything that isn't pro McCann. Publishers aren't freedom fighters.

Amazon won't sell Pat Brown's book.

Goncalo's book isn't published in the English language.

Tony Bennett was duped into handing over a copy of his book to someone who told him it was for research to do an article - that same person stood in the dock at the contempt of court trial and said he lied. (A big hello to Alan Tipperton who smirked as he left the court).

The UK media...well they'll publish anything pro McCann as it's guaranteed not to be sued.

Just my lil' take on things.
But if it libels GA let's hope he sues them.

Unlike the McCanns who seem to have endless support financially and in terms of top lawyers, Goncalo Amaral does not have this luxury.

You can't spend your life suing people (unless you are the McCanns).

by aiyoyo 29.07.14 10:55

aquila wrote:Exhaustive research?

Would that be reading a few things on various fora, skimming through the released pj files, skimming through media articles, choosing 'protagonists' and 'interviewing' them by email shortly before your masterpiece is released and doing it by introducing yourself as a journalist?

A big cherry picking, money making venture is what I see - I hope I'm wrong.

Things that make you go mmmm once again.

No publisher will touch anything that isn't pro McCann. Publishers aren't freedom fighters.

Amazon won't sell Pat Brown's book.

Goncalo's book isn't published in the English language.

Tony Bennett was duped into handing over a copy of his book to someone who told him it was for research to do an article - that same person stood in the dock at the contempt of court trial and said he lied. (A big hello to Alan Tipperton who smirked as he left the court).

The UK media...well they'll publish anything pro McCann as it's guaranteed not to be sued.

Just my lil' take on things.

In a nutshell!

Let's wait and see sales figure.

It may be his first 'flop' book.

'Looking for Madeleine' by Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan - My response to their enquiries

Summers' and Swan's book - the 'definitive' account of the Madeleine McCann case?