Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

sami wrote:With respect RIPM, nothing which you decribe above amounts to the McCanns being "feted" by the Pope, which I  understand to be the point under discussion.

The visit was arranged not through the initiative of the Pope but Cardinal McCormack of N. Ireland, via Mitchell. Good publicity for the cardinal and N. Ireland - which had supported the McCanns enthusiastically thanks to the canny use of that Donegal holiday and the tribal affiliation to Donegal.

Instead of having to wait months to have their 1 Pope minute, they were fitted into the existing schedule, so the Pope had to go on blessing for a minute longer than planned.
The photographs and the reporting of this event gave the impression that they'd had a private audience with the pontiff.
Far from it, but I'm willing to bet they were expecting to be treated like heads of state, not as ordinary citizens.

Turned out that Rome hadn't prepared itself for their visit. An hour or so to wait on a public tribune amongst the plebs, not even first to be blessed, one minute with the Pope. Kate embroidering the non event with a butterfly landing on her head, invisible to all but the blessed McCanns. All things Madeleine were whooshed from the Vatican website not long afterwards.

So we're not disheartened RIPM, btw. How about telling me why 3/5/07 was the perfect day for an abduction?

tigger wrote: 
The photographs and the reporting of this event gave the impression that they'd had a private audience with the pontiff. 
Far from it, but I'm willing to bet they were expecting to be treated like heads of state, not as ordinary citizens."
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And don't forget  the famous narcissist's comment from KM "Rome is preparing itself".
Can you believe it? Who do this pair imagine they are?

..."he said he would pray for US, for our FAMILY and for Madeleine".
Not only Gerry, outside the Luz church,  but also the Pope put Madeleine in the last place.

Did Prince Charles ever shake hands with Kate?
Not at all.

The car Scenic was rent one day before they left to Rome and a friend of them stayed in Praia da Luz...

tigger wrote:

Turned out that Rome hadn't prepared itself for their visit. An hour or so to wait on a public tribune amongst the plebs, not even first to be blessed, one minute with the Pope. Kate embroidering the non event with a butterfly landing on her head, invisible to all but the blessed McCanns.  All things Madeleine were whooshed from the Vatican website not long afterwards.

So  we're not disheartened RIPM, btw. How about telling me why 3/5/07 was the perfect day for an abduction?

Actually, no, tigger, the sudden 'whooshing' came, I believe, between 36 and 48 hours before the McCanns were pulled in for questioning and made arguidos on 7 September 2007.

The Vatican had until recently the most effective spying and intelligence collection system in the world.

This was achieved by the confessional booth and the requirement that all R.C. priest file reports at least every fortnight to the Vatican where a team of staff would collate and analyse them - and brief the 'Holy Father' and his advisers.

No doubt a faithful Catholic working for the PJ got wind of the move to question the McCanns, and informed 'the appropriate authorities'

Indeed in a private hearing Kate would be required to wear a black veil.  Pony tails and ribbons are not the protocol for such meetings.

Tony Bennett wrote:

tigger wrote:

Turned out that Rome hadn't prepared itself for their visit. An hour or so to wait on a public tribune amongst the plebs, not even first to be blessed, one minute with the Pope. Kate embroidering the non event with a butterfly landing on her head, invisible to all but the blessed McCanns.  All things Madeleine were whooshed from the Vatican website not long afterwards.

So  we're not disheartened RIPM, btw. How about telling me why 3/5/07 was the perfect day for an abduction?

Actually, no, tigger, the sudden 'whooshing' came, I believe, between 36 and 48 hours before the McCanns were pulled in for questioning and made arguidos on 7 September 2007.

The Vatican had until recently the most effective spying and intelligence collection system in the world.

This was achieved by the confessional booth and the requirement that all R.C. priest file reports at least every fortnight to the Vatican where a team of staff would collate and analyse them - and brief the 'Holy Father' and his advisers.

No doubt a faithful Catholic working for the PJ got wind of the move to question the McCanns, and informed 'the appropriate authorities'

How many Catholic priests in PDL were moved on after Madeleine's disappearance?

Prior to Madeleine's disappearance how long was the tenure of a Catholic priest in PDL?

sami wrote:Indeed in a private hearing Kate would be required to wear a black veil.  Pony tails and ribbons are not the protocol for such meetings.

When our Queen, Elizabeth II, met the Pope, he forced her to wear black:

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The Pope wears white, as a symbol of the purity of him and his church (cough).

The Queen had to wear black, as she is head of what is still - nominally at least - an officially Protestant nation.

Queen Elizabeth I had a much better record vis-a-vis the Pope. Coming to the throne in 1558 after her sister, Mary, had ordered 284 Protestants to be burnt at the stake for no worse offence than querying Catholic doctrine, she ended the oppression of Protestants, and made as sure as she could that no more Catholic plots could remove her from the throne. The Pope had offered a huge reward to anyone who could kill the Queen, conveniently forgetting, it would seem, the sixth commandment.

Having seen off the Spanish Armada, funded by the Pope, she died in 1603.

Just 2 years later, the Pope's men attempted what would then have been the greatest terrorist outrage the world had yet seen - the Gunpowder Plot.

Today the same church, which also gave us the Inquisition, is known and shamed for serially abusing tens of thousands of children, maybe more, over recent decades.

Tony Blair, Gerry McCann and Kate McCann are Catholics.

marconi wrote:..."he said he would pray for US, for our FAMILY and for Madeleine".
Not only Gerry, outside the Luz church,  but also the Pope put Madeleine in the last place.

Did Prince Charles ever shake hands with Kate?
Not at all.

The car Scenic was rent one day before they left to Rome and a friend of them stayed in Praia da Luz...

We only have TM's word for that and imo the Pope probably got the sequence right, iirc he was holding Maddie's photograph and blessing it.
In one of the clips of this event you can see an arm pushing others away, Clarrie doing what he's best at. I believe he even tried to shake the Pope by the hand ..  

tigger wrote:

marconi wrote:..."he said he would pray for US, for our FAMILY and for Madeleine".
Not only Gerry, outside the Luz church,  but also the Pope put Madeleine in the last place.

Did Prince Charles ever shake hands with Kate?
Not at all.

The car Scenic was rent one day before they left to Rome and a friend of them stayed in Praia da Luz...

We only have TM's word for that and imo the Pope probably got the sequence right, iirc he was holding Maddie's photograph and blessing it.
In one of the clips of this event you can see an arm pushing others away, Clarrie doing what he's best at. I believe he even tried to shake the Pope by the hand ..  

It was a PR exercise of sickening proportion. It was just that. If you read Gerry's blog you will see what the agenda was. The 'awareness' and 'photo shoots'.

Everything you need to know is in Gerry's blogs.

So RIPM are you going to tell us why the 3rd May 2007 created such perfect timing?

And don't forget the famous narcissist's comment from KM "Rome is preparing itself".
Can you believe it? Who do this pair imagine they are?

Are we sure this isn't a typo and she actually meant Frome in Somerset ?...perhaps a school fete preparing stocks so the fund raisers could throw wet sponges at their teachers .

RIPM
Around 3rd /4th May politicians and media stars rushed to be seen linked to K and G, thinking it would help their own profiles, by assisting two ‘distraught little people’ of humble origins who had made good. Perfect media fodder.

What could possibly go wrong?
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The 'files' were released into the public domain?

With regard to Zlebs, not one of which gave real money to the private 'fund', but only 'pledged to a reward', that possibly they knew would NEVER be 'claimed' their silence has been deafening since the 'files' were released.

All the bru ha ha and private jets, declarations of how marvellous the parents were for leaving three children, all under 4 years old, alone in an unlocked apartment, out of eyesight and sound, abroad, in a resort they had been told was a regular target for burglaries 'vanished' when the zlebs got their minnions to actually read the 'files'

Even Philomena McCann must have been gob smacked at what was actually in the 'files'

She is nobody's fool, that's for sure.

I don't understand why she hasn't beaten down the door of the Paynes house as DP 'knows' a few things 'that are pertinent and relevent to establish the material truth about her niece's disappearance' but he won't tell anybody. Not even the Police.

WHY would she, or her entire family, not do that?

WHY?

And hasn't she been remarkedly silent since then, even though she would do anything, to get her darling wee niece back?

Well, when i say anything, that wouldn't include beating down No 10's door or parading around Westminister with placards, at every opportunity, as she did BEFORE the 'files' were made public.

Remind me again: WHAT did the McCann 'wider family' John McCann, Trisha McCann, Philomena McCann, grandmother Eileen, godfather Jon Corner, Madeleine's grandparents, the Healy's, all the McCanns friends, T7, actually DO yesterday and are doing today, right now, to 'find' the missing McCann family member?

jeanmonroe wrote:RIPM
Around 3rd /4th May politicians and media stars rushed to be seen linked to K and G, thinking it would help their own profiles, by assisting two ‘distraught little people’ of humble origins who had made good. Perfect media fodder.

What could possibly go wrong?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The 'files' were released into the public domain?

With regard to Zlebs, not one of which gave real money to the private 'fund, but pledged to a reward, that possibly they knew would NEVER be 'claimed' their silence has been deafening since the 'files' were released.

All the bru ha ha and private jets, declarations of how marvellous the parents were for leaving three children, all under 4 years old, alone in an unlocked apartment, out of eyesight and sound, abroad, in a resort they had been told a regular target for burglaries 'vanished' when the zlebs got their minnions to actually read the 'files'

Even Philomena McCann must have been gob smacked at what was in the 'files'

She is nobody's fool, that's for sure.

And hasn't she been remarkedly silent since then, even though she would do anything, to get her darling wee niece back?

Well, when i say anything, that wouldn't include beating down No 10's door or parading around Westminister with placards, at every opportunity, as she did BEFORE the 'files' were made public.

Remind me again: WHAT did the McCann 'wider family' John McCann, Trisha McCann, Philomena McCann, grandmother Eileen, godfather Jon Corner, Madeleine's grandparents, the Healy's, all the McCanns friends, T7, actually DO yesterday and are doing today, right now, to 'find' the missing McCann family member?

I think they've 'moved on'.

As for Clarence Mitchell, I feel sick each time I see a photograph of him.

If your child is missing why would you want to go and visit the Pope?
The Pope's blessing won't help or improve with the search, or bring her back.

Pertinent question might be : Who deems the visit necessary?
Was it just a PR exercise or something more?
Whether this PR exercise (if it is that) is successful or not depends really on the reason behind the visit.

To keep them high profile?
To help people view the Mccanns as religious people?
To get blessing for a dead child?
To get parents blessed in the belief it absolves them for their sin?
To keep up the media circle to thwart the investigators work?
To create impression they were god-fearing couple deserving to be helped by donations money?

Personally I think it was done for personal reason, not intended as PR exercise, but turned out that way because of media coverage.

ETA: CM knew right from the get on what exactly happened to Madeleine.

aiyoyo wrote:If your child is missing why would you want to go and visit the Pope?
The Pope's blessing won't help or improve with the search, or bring her back.

Pertinent question might be : Who deems the visit necessary?
Was it just a PR exercise or something more?
Whether this PR exercise (if it is that) is successful or not depends really on the reason behind the visit.

To keep them high profile?
To help people view the Mccanns as religious people?
To get blessing for a dead child?
To get parents blessed in the belief it absolves them for their sin?
To keep up the media circle to thwart the investigators work?
To create impression they were god-fearing couple deserving to be helped by donations money?

Personally I think it was done for personal reason, not intended as PR exercise, but turned out that way because of media coverage.


ETA: CM knew right from the get on what exactly happened to Madeleine.

If my child had been abducted from their bed I can guarantee that I'd be in no fit state to meet the pope four weeks later and would have absolutely no interest in doing so. I would only be interested in meeting people who could actually help me get my child back. I'd be handing out leaflets, putting up posters and physically searching for my child, not wasting time enjoying the fame the tragedy had brought me. IMO it was all PR and they loved it.

Was it the 'last poolside' photo of Madeleine they took with them or a much older more cutesy one?

I'd have taken the 'last photo' as it was in my camera the day my daughter 'disappeared' and get the Pope to 'bless' both Gerry and Amelie's images as well!

Tangled Web wrote:

aiyoyo wrote:If your child is missing why would you want to go and visit the Pope?
The Pope's blessing won't help or improve with the search, or bring her back.

Pertinent question might be : Who deems the visit necessary?
Was it just a PR exercise or something more?
Whether this PR exercise (if it is that) is successful or not depends really on the reason behind the visit.

To keep them high profile?
To help people view the Mccanns as religious people?
To get blessing for a dead child?
To get parents blessed in the belief it absolves them for their sin?
To keep up the media circle to thwart the investigators work?
To create impression they were god-fearing couple deserving to be helped by donations money?

Personally I think it was done for personal reason, not intended as PR exercise, but turned out that way because of media coverage.


ETA: CM knew right from the get on what exactly happened to Madeleine.

If my child had been abducted from their bed I can guarantee that I'd be in no fit state to meet the pope four weeks later and would have absolutely no interest in doing so. I would only be interested in meeting people who could actually help me get my child back. I'd be handing out leaflets, putting up posters and physically searching for my child, not wasting time enjoying the fame the tragedy had brought me. IMO it was all PR and they loved it.

Once again, I urge you to look at Gerry's blog. Then take a look at the vile pink person around him that just 'did his job'.

There were a lot of people around the McCanns that 'just did their job'.

There were a lot of people who ditched the McCann machine too.

I have no idea who is responsible for Madeleine's demise but I'm sure I wouldn't have behaved as Madeleine's parent in the way G & K have done.

It doesn't make sense. If it doesn't make sense then it's probably not true.

aiyoyo wrote:.

ETA: CM knew right from the get on what exactly happened to Madeleine.

Aiyoyo, how do you know this?

jeanmonroe wrote:Was it the 'last poolside' photo of Madeleine they took with them or a much older more cutesy one?

I'd have taken the 'last photo' as it was in my camera the day my daughter 'disappeared' and get the Pope to 'bless' both Gerry and Amelie's images as well!

How could they do that jeanmonroe! the iconic coloboma photo was out there....

In your face.

In the Pope's face.

aquila wrote:

jeanmonroe wrote:Was it the 'last poolside' photo of Madeleine they took with them or a much older more cutesy one?

I'd have taken the 'last photo' as it was in my camera the day my daughter 'disappeared' and get the Pope to 'bless' both Gerry and Amelie's images as well!

How could they do that jeanmonroe! the iconic coloboma photo was out there....

In your face.

In the Pope's face.

So no Papal special GOBGTF offer then on that day? Get One 'Blessing' Get Two 'Free'! (Amelie and Gerry)

Poor Amelie. NOT as 'special' as Madeleine then.

Ladyinred wrote:

aiyoyo wrote:.

ETA: CM knew right from the get on what exactly happened to Madeleine.

Aiyoyo, how do you know this?

I read it as Aiyoyo saying Pinkie knew, not 'she' knew.

Why would a SECOND RATE JOURNALIST / CAUGHT-SLEEPING-on-the-job-BROADCASTER, who had FINALLY made the BIG TIME and got to the highest position in the land, controlling the information that comes out of Government, in the whole of the Media, and who is ONCE AGAIN, seeking to get back into POLITICS as an MP and would no doubt know that a POSITION in the CABINET would be almost GUARANTEED, go off to an unknown part of southern Portugal to protect 2 negligent second rate doctors who had lost one of their three children whilst passing the bottle at a bar away from their sleeping children ?

Why would he, the most ardent and energetic supporter of such a 'caring' family, so betray such family principles and leave his own wife to get on with the job of 'losing their own baby' all by herself, back in the UK, because he was so busy, too far away in a land called Portugal to get back to be with her, and was committed to supporting the 'other' family who had lost 'their' little girl.

Why would he state that there would be an innocent explanation for anything that would or would not be found. Such a crass statement and so open to accusation of prejudice and judicial-outcome manipulation.

If one does not extrapolate from that, that there was some very big reason why the government and its varied entourage sallied forth, putting their most voluble candidate forward, to keep the truth covered up with whatever lies may be deemed necessary, then the hopes of justice for Madeleine will never be fruitful.

To deal with corruption, it is necessary first to recognise corruption, and then to face up to the forces that one perceives, not to wait for 'proof' that such forces abide, but to work on the 'most likely scenario' as presented by a multitude of gathered observations.

Even as the PJ describe Mitchell as a man who lies through as many teeth as he has in his mouth, we can accept that some of the most 'criminally' aware people on this earth, acknowledge this man's 'unseemly attributes'.

After the 'dogs' it is evident that Madeleine met her fate on that family holiday, never to return alive.

Something is being concealed, acceptance of this allows one to move forward to find justice for Madeleine.

Mitchell is no torrid fool, he is a marksman, capable of saying anything, however dishonest, to portray a media controlled outcome. That is his own acclaimed job.

I think CM was there to essentially control the media out there and ensure that journalists didn't get hold of another story - as in who was out there and what they were doing out there. Just my opinion.

MissDaisy wrote:I think CM was there to essentially control the media out there and ensure that journalists didn't get hold of another story - as in who was out there and what they were doing out there. Just my opinion.

Then why is he still being retained 7 years on?

Alex Woolfall cum suis aren't, are they?

Portia wrote:

MissDaisy wrote:I think CM was there to essentially control the media out there and ensure that journalists didn't get hold of another story - as in who was out there and what they were doing out there. Just my opinion.

Then why is he still being retained 7 years on?

Alex Woolfall cum suis aren't, are they?

Yep. Mitchell still lining his pockets with 'donations' paid from the 'fund'

40% of his 'salary' as a 'retainer' from the Find Madeleine Fund.

At least £28,000 pa.

Not bad for not saying a lot, is it?

Keep 'donating' kiddies and OAP's. Clarrie needs your money to pay for his £28,000 pa, 'retainer'!

Never looked at it like that before. I had always tried to link the Tapas9 with "the big security issue".

I'm desperately looking for the 12:00 am May 4, 2007, press release that the Home Office has reported a British girl has been abducted in Portugal ....

Is it this one? Telegraph at 12.01 - but says a report from Foreign Office.

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Châtelaine wrote:I'm desperately looking for the 12:00 am May 4, 2007, press release that the Home Office has reported a British girl has been abducted in Portugal ....

I thought it had been worked out the 12:am time was an error and the time was 12:pm?

Daisy wrote:

Châtelaine wrote:I'm desperately looking for the 12:00 am May 4, 2007, press release that the Home Office has reported a British girl has been abducted in Portugal ....

I thought it had been worked out the 12:am time was an error and the time was 12:pm?

!2:00am (May 4th) is vastly different from 12:00pm hence the 24-hour clock usage for clarity in Police Reports.

12:00am(May 4th) would be 24:00hrs on May 3rd.