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IVF. DNA & DOCTORS Mm11

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Post by Hummingbird on 12.06.12 13:54

Sorry to start a new topic I have searched for IVF treatment as a previous thread and cannot find it so please feel free to close this down or move to correct thread if necessary.

I was hoping one or more of you very clever people winkwink could help me with this.

Has there ever been any concrete evidence that GM & KM used IVF treatment and if so do we have evidence of where the treatment/s took place?

Has any other member of the tapas group to your knowledge ever used IVF?

Do we have any proof (actual proof) of the birth date of ROB & JT daughter?

forgive me here with this it is very hard to explain what I am trying to find out!! If you have a child through IVF do you both have to be the actual donors for your child to have your dna. If only one of you can actually donate and you use another donor then what happens to the dna of that child?

Did Murat and his ex wife have IVF treatment (just read a quote they married in 1994 and tried for a baby for years until she fell pregnant in 2002)

Is it possible that any one of these doctors has ever worked in the IVF treatment area?

Hope you understand my thoughts here, I have mulling this over for months and finally taken the plunge.
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Post by david_uk on 12.06.12 15:08

cant help with this , but did notice that they make no mention to fact they had IVF on the Oprah Winfrey show!!

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Post by dentdelion on 12.06.12 15:36

As per the book, both pregnancies were result of IVF using both parents as donors. The twins were conceived in Holland.
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Post by Lady-Heather on 12.06.12 15:41

@Hummingbird wrote:
forgive me here with this it is very hard to explain what I am trying to find out!! If you have a child through IVF do you both have to be the actual donors for your child to have your dna. If only one of you can actually donate and you use another donor then what happens to the dna of that child?.

Hi Hummingbird

Just to answer you on this point, there cannot be a 'single' donor in IVF. There has to be an egg (or eggs) plus sperm in order for fertilisation to take place. It is essentially conception outside of the body (in vitro). The chromosomal DNA will therefore 'belong' to the donor of each contributor, with 23 matched pairs, one set from each donor = 46 chromosomes.

Wasn't it determined that Madeleine was Kate & Gerry's biological daughter, at least in terms of the sample given to the PJ by GM?
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Post by tigger on 12.06.12 16:09

The first series of IVF treatment were done in Birmingham.
The second - for the twins - was in Amsterdam - free of charge.

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Post by Hummingbird on 12.06.12 16:55

@Lady-Heather wrote:
@Hummingbird wrote:
forgive me here with this it is very hard to explain what I am trying to find out!! If you have a child through IVF do you both have to be the actual donors for your child to have your dna. If only one of you can actually donate and you use another donor then what happens to the dna of that child?.

Hi Hummingbird

Just to answer you on this point, there cannot be a 'single' donor in IVF. There has to be an egg (or eggs) plus sperm in order for fertilisation to take place. It is essentially conception outside of the body (in vitro). The chromosomal DNA will therefore 'belong' to the donor of each contributor, with 23 matched pairs, one set from each donor = 46 chromosomes.

Wasn't it determined that Madeleine was Kate & Gerry's biological daughter, at least in terms of the sample given to the PJ by GM?


Ok so how do we know that the dna given to the PJ was actually MM? Was a police officer present when the dna was collected from the UK.


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Post by Hummingbird on 12.06.12 16:58

@tigger wrote:The first series of IVF treatment were done in Birmingham.
The second - for the twins - was in Amsterdam - free of charge.

(sorry had to do two posts don't know how to do them together!!)

Now this was what I was kinda expecting to hear - free of charge?

How did that happen? IVF treatment is a highly costly procedure, or so I thought. Was it a friendly Dr? Or a Dr friend?

tigger you are a fountain of knowledge can you help me with the Murat ? on whether it has ever been suggested IVF treatment was used here or if JT & ROB ever used it?
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Post by Lady-Heather on 12.06.12 17:14

@Hummingbird wrote:Ok so how do we know that the dna given to the PJ was actually MM? Was a police officer present when the dna was collected from the UK.

My understanding is that the sample was collected by 'authorities in the UK', presumably accompanied by GM.

However how would the 'authorities' know that it was MM's DNA that was being collected? And a further question (although off-topic) - why was there no DNA available for collection in PDL?
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Post by Hummingbird on 12.06.12 17:23

@Lady-Heather wrote:
@Hummingbird wrote:Ok so how do we know that the dna given to the PJ was actually MM? Was a police officer present when the dna was collected from the UK.

My understanding is that the sample was collected by 'authorities in the UK', presumably accompanied by GM.

However how would the 'authorities' know that it was MM's DNA that was being collected? And a further question (although off-topic) - why was there no DNA available for collection in PDL?

Exactly - how does anyone it was MMs hairbrush toothbrush pillow (I believe it was a saliva sample from a pillow)

As for their being no DNA in the apartment that is impossible, if MM was there then there HAD to be some of her dna for heavens sake they collected a glass used by a so called look alike and used that to test for DNA so what about all the cups she had her so called milk from every night, because judging by the state of that apartment in the pictures I have seen I doubt that KM washed them up and put them away she wouldn't have had time what with having had a shower herself, changing the kids, biscuits,milk, undressing them, bathing them, dressing them again, reading a story, putting them to bed, having a bath now after her shower, hot work this putting kids to bed, doing her hair and having a drink with hubby!!!

IF MM was there then her DNA is there unless they are lying about the dna and maybe ivf!!! And is this why the medical records were never produced?
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Post by russiandoll on 12.06.12 17:44

Sometimes I wonder if Maddie was ever at the OC.

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Post by uppatoffee on 12.06.12 20:20

There is a scheme which runs in Holland that helps to keep the cost of treatment down.

"Some 36,000 pregnant Dutch women donate their urine in a unique “mothers for mothers” scheme to help infertile couples in the Netherlands. They are encouraged to bottle all their urine on a daily basis between the sixth and 16th week of pregnancy, the time when it is rich in the hCG hormone. This is then used by pharmaceutical companies to produce medicines which help female and male infertility.
The highly organised scheme, in which couriers collect crates of bottled urine on a weekly basis from the women’s homes, is so successful that substantial quantities of the hCG hormone are available, bringing down the cost of treatment. The urine donors, who learn about the scheme from their GP or health centre, join Mothers for Mothers because they want to help others to become parents, according to the pharmaceutical giant Organon/MSD, who set it up."

I haven't seen anything about free treatment though!
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Post by Guest on 12.06.12 21:45

From what I understood it was established that the DNA collected from the Rothley pillow was a female child of Gerry & Kate and that it wasn't Amelie.
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Post by EJW on 12.06.12 21:57

@Lady-Heather wrote:
@Hummingbird wrote:Ok so how do we know that the dna given to the PJ was actually MM? Was a police officer present when the dna was collected from the UK.

My understanding is that the sample was collected by 'authorities in the UK', presumably accompanied by GM.

However how would the 'authorities' know that it was MM's DNA that was being collected? And a further question (although off-topic) - why was there no DNA available for collection in PDL?

I had always assumed that there was DNA that the PJ had obtained and that the DNA returned from Rothley was to be used as a comparison/match and that LP were involved with the collection of the DNA (pillow evidence) with GM. I will try and find a link for the "Comparison" issue although i have definitely seen it on this site. :-)

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Post by Mariita on 12.06.12 22:12

In the basic health insurance package 3 free IVF sessions are included, for women not older than 45 living in the Netherlands. So as long as you have a residence in Holland you may use the offer. According to the book, she became pregnant with the twins in the first session.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2012/05/gynaecologists_recommend_end_t.php
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Post by uppatoffee on 12.06.12 22:42

@Mariita wrote:In the basic health insurance package 3 free IVF sessions are included, for women not older than 45 living in the Netherlands. So as long as you have a residence in Holland you may use the offer. According to the book, she became pregnant with the twins in the first session.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2012/05/gynaecologists_recommend_end_t.php

That is quite incredible. That would set you back a minimum of £15k in this country. No wonder they were keen to try while they were living there.
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Post by Mariita on 12.06.12 23:27

@uppatoffee wrote:
@Mariita wrote:In the basic health insurance package 3 free IVF sessions are included, for women not older than 45 living in the Netherlands. So as long as you have a residence in Holland you may use the offer. According to the book, she became pregnant with the twins in the first session.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2012/05/gynaecologists_recommend_end_t.php

That is quite incredible. That would set you back a minimum of £15k in this country. No wonder they were keen to try while they were living there.

Yes, it seems like Holland has a rather generous health care system. In Sweden it depends on where in the country you are living, but every couple who seeks help with ivf can get 1-3 sessions free. In addition to that, there are a number of private clinics and by choosing them the waiting time is skipped. But some non-private clinics(free) have just 6 months or even less, before the treatment can start.
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Post by tigger on 13.06.12 8:49

@Mariita wrote:
@uppatoffee wrote:
@Mariita wrote:In the basic health insurance package 3 free IVF sessions are included, for women not older than 45 living in the Netherlands. So as long as you have a residence in Holland you may use the offer. According to the book, she became pregnant with the twins in the first session.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2012/05/gynaecologists_recommend_end_t.php

That is quite incredible. That would set you back a minimum of £15k in this country. No wonder they were keen to try while they were living there.

Yes, it seems like Holland has a rather generous health care system. In Sweden it depends on where in the country you are living, but every couple who seeks help with ivf can get 1-3 sessions free. In addition to that, there are a number of private clinics and by choosing them the waiting time is skipped. But some non-private clinics(free) have just 6 months or even less, before the treatment can start.

It's generous in some ways. Everybody is obliged to pay health insurance every month. It depends on the insurer how many extras are included, such as physiotherapy.
Next year the 'own risk' fee will be around 400 euros - if you do not use the health service you don't pay this - but if you e.g. get medication to the value of 100 that year and use nothing else, you pay the 100 only.
At present I pay 150 euros a month, nearly the least one can pay. Most people pay more, those on low incomes get rebates.
Still, a public health insurance costing the average person well over 2000 euros a year - it works but imo is no better or worse than the NHS. Which poses the question, how much better the NHS would be if it had had the same resources.

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