Re: Mikaeel Kular

by ultimaThule 20.01.14 17:33

PeterMac wrote:Quite so, but pixillating a picture of someone who has been in the news for days doesn't seem to contribute much to a fair trial
Rather like publishing the full name and address and photo of the girl who ran off with the teacher, and then suddenly pretending that we were not allowed to know who she was
as soon as they got back and he was charged.
If the girl had been a witness in the case her identify was already known. It is still out there on the internet or anyone who wishes to look up "speech defects".
In the modern world once a name is out there you cannot get it back, and to pretend otherwise surely makes the law look slightly silly

I agree. But what alternative is there in cases of this nature?

Guaranteed anonymity for all accused with only 'a person has been arrested in the case of X' being made public until such time as that individual appears before a jury, which may lead to some poor soul being subjected to mob justice if they are wrongly suspected of being the 'person arrested'?

Or trial by media which may prejudice the minds of jurors and judges alike against the accused thus depriving them of the right to a fair trial?

As the law stands we know the name of the accused and the nature of the charges and, while we may all speculate in private and some will rush to judgement regardless, IMO it is entirely right that public speculation as to guilt or innocence should be discouraged until such time as the facts of the case and the evidence which supports the charge(s) are made known in open court.

by sallypelt 20.01.14 17:33

PeterMac wrote:
sallypelt wrote:
This confirms what has already been known for decades, or longer, and that is, the law is an ass
It has to try, no one doubts that, but it still lives in the era of fountain pens and barristers carrying their briefs in cloth bags through the streets.
It is taking a long time to come into the 20th century, let alone the present.

In the present case my point is that I do not see how putting the face of the victim - the child - there whilst pixillating the face of the mother
ads anything to a fair trial.
She has been identified, arrested, and charged, so her identity is not in issue, not her facial characteristics.
Her name indicates her ethnic background and roots, so again that cannot be the issue.

It is rather like the stupidity of papers paying for those pastel sketches done in court and then published next to the photo of the person concerned.
What is the point - of doing the sketch, I mean.
This sort of thing, from the DM, which is one grab, not two photos, they were published exactly like this

" />

How is a fair trial served by this, or indeed prevented or influenced by this.
That was my point.

Peter, the problem is that the speed of technology has left our laws way behind, and they haven't a clue what to do about it. The genie is out of the bottle, and as you have already referred to, you can't undo what has been done, and the powers that be will have to live with it.

by russiandoll 20.01.14 17:47

I am posting this because just 30 mins before the charges were made public, a member of MM forum posted irresponsible and quite gruesome speculation.
It was in a public area, I read it and am not a member there. Just a reminder, because there are people who hate this forum with a passion and will take delight in taking screengrabs and sending them to people who might have the power to take legal action against CMOMM.

I can read this thread without logging in, so that means it is available to any member of the public. I doubt I will read anything such as the post on the Mikaeel thread over on MM at approx. 4.30 , but might it be an idea ,as this case is now progressing to trial, to move this topic to a private area?

eta UT : I agree with your recent post.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/lawyers-warn-social-media-users-3040334

Lawyers warn social media users about dangers of illegal posts relating to Mikaeel Kular case

20 Jan 2014 10:23
THE disappearance and death of Mikaeel and subsequent arrest of his mother has been a hot social media topic - but views expressed could breach contempt of court laws

LAWYERS last night warned social media users about the dangers of illegal posts relating to the Kular case.

The disappearance and death of Mikaeel and subsequent arrest of his mother has been a hot topic on Twitter and Facebook.

But views expressed could breach contempt of court laws as Twitter and Facebook are governed by the same publishing and broadcasting leglislation as newspapers, TV and associated websites.

Even if the views are those of an individual, once they are on the internet they are regarded as having been published and could be actionable.

Media lawyer Callum Anderson said: “The Contempt of Court Act 1981 substantially restricts, in relation to criminal cases, what the media can and can’t publish.

“Any publication that creates a substantial risk that the course of justice will be seriously impeded or prejudiced is a criminal offence.

“Contempt of court is a serious offence and can be punished by up to two years in prison.

“The Act applies from when proceedings become ‘live’, which is usually when the accused is arrested.

“It does not just apply to newspapers or TV broadcasters, it also applies online to individuals including blogs, Facebook posts and tweets.

“Even retweeting the tweets of others would be a contempt of court if the material being retweeted caused a substantial risk of prejudice.

“Those posting material online need to do so responsibly and sensibly. "

by **Hobs** 20.01.14 17:49

I was brave and stuck my nose into jatyk (especially since they were commenting about me)

They have gone silent on this case on the grounds of not affecting justice etc and all comments will be in the private lounge,

Since ir is a locked forum and i'm not a member ( boohoo i feel so lost and unwanted) I have no idea what they are talking about in regards to this now murder case.

It was amazing how dfasrt they did a volte face when it was revealed a body was found and his mom was arrested. They had to resort to saying how smart the police were whilst belittling the PJ despite the fact their god and goddess called Sky news immediately along with sundry people with important contacts and family despite the fact if it were an abduction or she had gone walkabout she could have been found at any moment.

The difference between the cases was ibne couple had good jobs and friends in high places whereas the other didn't/

to my fans at jatyk

by Guest 20.01.14 17:53

I agree with your good advice RD and have moved this thread in here Members only lounge.

If there are any posts that could prejudice the trial, then they will be deleted, or the topic may be locked.

by russiandoll 20.01.14 17:54

The cesspit is very quiet, allegedly because of sub judice but very conveniently also because the developments in this case do not suit their agenda. Twitter pros just the same.

No surprises there then !

by Hopespringseternal 20.01.14 17:54

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Has anyone been brave enough to check what if anything the handful of McCann supporters at JATYK2 has been saying since Mikaeel's body was found?

They were certainly vociferous in their contempt of us here before then.

I am afraid to cross the threshold of that site for fear of what it holds. I should think if there's a way to twist the terrible news to fit their agenda, then they'll manage it, no matter how .

by sallypelt 20.01.14 17:57

Hobs wrote:I was brave and stuck my nose into jatyk (especially since they were commenting about me)

They have gone silent on this case on the grounds of not affecting justice etc and all comments will be in the private lounge,

Since ir is a locked forum and i'm not a member ( boohoo i feel so lost and unwanted) I have no idea what they are talking about in regards to this now murder case.

It was amazing how dfasrt they did a volte face when it was revealed a body was found and his mom was arrested. They had to resort to saying how smart the police were whilst belittling the PJ despite the fact their god and goddess called Sky news immediately along with sundry people with important contacts and family despite the fact if it were an abduction or she had gone walkabout she could have been found at any moment.

The difference between the cases was ibne couple had good jobs and friends in high places whereas the other didn't/

to my fans at jatyk

Can someone enlighten me as to what "jatyk" is, please, as I keep reading people referring to it. I am reluctant to check it out for myself, as I only post on this forum, when I have the time, and only READ McCann hashtag. After reading hashtag, I don't think I have the stomach to read anymore tosh, but I am getting curious about jatyk because it's mentioned so often. nails

by Penfold 20.01.14 18:02

"Just A Thought You Know" I believe.

by russiandoll 20.01.14 18:03

Sallyp, there once was a forum called Just a Thought You Know, was closed down and resurfaced as number 2 [ pardon the pun!]

hence JATYK2.

Wear full decontamination kit and limit yourself to the odd peep when something important happens and you should exit unscathed.

I estimate max 3 people there, others are figments of their imagination.

Pedro is good for a laugh. winkwink

by Newintown 20.01.14 18:13

Hopespringseternal wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Has anyone been brave enough to check what if anything the handful of McCann supporters at JATYK2 has been saying since Mikaeel's body was found?

They were certainly vociferous in their contempt of us here before then.

I am afraid to cross the threshold of that site for fear of what it holds. I should think if there's a way to twist the terrible news to fit their agenda, then they'll manage it, no matter how .

It's been happening for the past six and a half years, nothing will change unless one of the "tapas" McCanns' friends grow some balls and tell all as to what happened to Madeleine, but they are are so "into each other" (i.e. weak and afraid of losing their homes, their status, their jobs, their children, their way of life), their lives must be hell, Madeleine has gone, nothing will bring her back so why would they risk all by say anything.

by Cristobell 20.01.14 18:43

sallypelt wrote:
Hobs wrote:I was brave and stuck my nose into jatyk (especially since they were commenting about me)

They have gone silent on this case on the grounds of not affecting justice etc and all comments will be in the private lounge,

Since ir is a locked forum and i'm not a member ( boohoo i feel so lost and unwanted) I have no idea what they are talking about in regards to this now murder case.

It was amazing how dfasrt they did a volte face when it was revealed a body was found and his mom was arrested. They had to resort to saying how smart the police were whilst belittling the PJ despite the fact their god and goddess called Sky news immediately along with sundry people with important contacts and family despite the fact if it were an abduction or she had gone walkabout she could have been found at any moment.

The difference between the cases was ibne couple had good jobs and friends in high places whereas the other didn't/

to my fans at jatyk

Can someone enlighten me as to what "jatyk" is, please, as I keep reading people referring to it. I am reluctant to check it out for myself, as I only post on this forum, when I have the time, and only READ McCann hashtag. After reading hashtag, I don't think I have the stomach to read anymore tosh, but I am getting curious about jatyk because it's mentioned so often.

Hi Sally, Just A Thought You Know, JATYK, is v.small pro McCann forum, consisting of about 6 posters as far as I can see. That they are all nuts is a given, and the obsessional wing of Team McCann. Basically they watch this forum, the FB groups, twitter etc, then c/p our posts and tweets and tear them to pieces. If we didn't exist, neither would they, as they have nothing else to talk about. It is the sister forum of Stop the Myths, STMs, they bounce our posts backwards and forwards between them, so they can all get several opportunities to express shock, horror and outrage, whilst simultaneously digging into our private lives to see if they can find anything murky.

Depending on how deep you want to go, there are links to the even more extreme psychopaths and criminally insane, including the infamous muratfan. It also links to their Hate List - that is their directory of anyone caught saying anything derogatory about the McCanns, it is used as a threat to scare people away from discussing anything that does not go along with the 'official abduction story'. They are in effect using sinister, bully boy tactics to protect the McCanns and I hope they are unmasked when this debacle comes to an end.

I too have a few 'fans' on there, lol, but was especially sickened to see that I am accused of making snuff movies! Good grief, I can't even watch PG films without a cushion to hide behind! I hate to think what the freak who came up with that one was projecting.

by ultimaThule 20.01.14 18:44

PeterMac wrote:
sallypelt wrote:
This confirms what has already been known for decades, or longer, and that is, the law is an ass
It has to try, no one doubts that, but it still lives in the era of fountain pens and barristers carrying their briefs in cloth bags through the streets.
It is taking a long time to come into the 20th century, let alone the present.

In the present case my point is that I do not see how putting the face of the victim - the child - there whilst pixillating the face of the mother
ads anything to a fair trial.
She has been identified, arrested, and charged, so her identity is not in issue, not her facial characteristics.
Her name indicates her ethnic background and roots, so again that cannot be the issue.

It is rather like the stupidity of papers paying for those pastel sketches done in court and then published next to the photo of the person concerned.
What is the point - of doing the sketch, I mean.
This sort of thing, from the DM, which is one grab, not two photos, they were published exactly like this

" />

How is a fair trial served by this, or indeed prevented or influenced by this.
That was my point.

Never let it be said the bewigged ones aren't catching up to the 21st century - anyone who has occasion to visit the Royal Courts of Justice when a particularly lengthy and/or complex case is being heard will observe numerous counsel making the trek from Temple or Lincoln's Inn with their cloth bags stuffed into or onto modern day luggage-type trolleys and QCs can be distinguished by the presence of a ~~Dickensian type undernourished small boy~~ minion or two wheeling their trollies big grin

So many interesting byways, so little time to pursue them... it occurs to me that allowing artists into court to sketch impressions of the various characters appearing may have been seen as controversial at the time, and may only have come about after a hard fought campaign by the press barons of the day.

As it is, in the absence of cameras, only artists' sketches can convey impressions of the courtroom with the sketch you've posted above being a case in point as it shows the proximity of what we can now lawfully call the murderer of April Jones, but who was then 'the accused', to the victim's parents.

In retrospect the sketch itself is a valuable indication of the true nature of Bridger; what type of being can tell a pack of lies and refuse to reveal the whereabouts of their 5 year old victim's body while her parents sit weeping a few feet away?

And without that sketch the vast majority of us wouldn't be aware of how close they were seated to their child's killer, and would only be able to imagine their attendance at court as being less than the horrendous ordeal it undoubtedly was for this poor couple.

I agree that pixellating Rosdeep Kular's face at this late stage serves no purpose whatsoever as her features will be firmly embedded in the consciousness of all who've read about the case but, until cameras are allowed in court or all murder trials are televised, I can't agree that artists' impressions are entirely without value.

by Daisy 20.01.14 18:49

Cristobell wrote:Hi Sally, Just A Thought You Know, JATYK, is v.small pro McCann forum, consisting of about 6 posters as far as I can see. That they are all nuts is a given, and the obsessional wing of Team McCann. Basically they watch this forum, the FB groups, twitter etc, then c/p our posts and tweets and tear them to pieces. If we didn't exist, neither would they, as they have nothing else to talk about. It is the sister forum of Stop the Myths, STMs, they bounce our posts backwards and forwards between them, so they can all get several opportunities to express shock, horror and outrage, whilst simultaneously digging into our private lives to see if they can find anything murky.

Depending on how deep you want to go, there are links to the even more extreme psychopaths and criminally insane, including the infamous muratfan. It also links to their Hate List - that is their directory of anyone caught saying anything derogatory about the McCanns, it is used as a threat to scare people away from discussing anything that does not go along with the 'official abduction story'. They are in effect using sinister, bully boy tactics to protect the McCanns and I hope they are unmasked when this debacle comes to an end.

I too have a number of fans, jayelles being reminiscent of the Kathy Bates character in Misery.

Yup! That sums them up nicely, a pretty accurate description.

by ultimaThule 20.01.14 19:06

As I happen to have a spare bottle of brain bleach I ventured into JATYK territory but, for some reason, I wasn't able to see current/ongoing topics. Could this be because only 13 guests and no members were online at the time of my visit?

However, trulysenile https://twitter.com/TrulyJudy73 has had an exceptionally busy day - what that creature manages to achieve while twittering non-stop is nothing short of miraculous. Maybe she's looking to nick Nigella's title and become the new domestic goddess?

by sallypelt 20.01.14 19:09

Daisy wrote:
Cristobell wrote:Hi Sally, Just A Thought You Know, JATYK, is v.small pro McCann forum, consisting of about 6 posters as far as I can see. That they are all nuts is a given, and the obsessional wing of Team McCann. Basically they watch this forum, the FB groups, twitter etc, then c/p our posts and tweets and tear them to pieces. If we didn't exist, neither would they, as they have nothing else to talk about. It is the sister forum of Stop the Myths, STMs, they bounce our posts backwards and forwards between them, so they can all get several opportunities to express shock, horror and outrage, whilst simultaneously digging into our private lives to see if they can find anything murky.

Depending on how deep you want to go, there are links to the even more extreme psychopaths and criminally insane, including the infamous muratfan. It also links to their Hate List - that is their directory of anyone caught saying anything derogatory about the McCanns, it is used as a threat to scare people away from discussing anything that does not go along with the 'official abduction story'. They are in effect using sinister, bully boy tactics to protect the McCanns and I hope they are unmasked when this debacle comes to an end.

I too have a number of fans, jayelles being reminiscent of the Kathy Bates character in Misery.
Yup! That sums them up nicely, a pretty accurate description.

Thank you, christobell, for the explanation. After reading your post I think I will give it a miss. I have seen enough nutters on hashtag to last me a lifetime. I didn't know such people existed. I am ashamed to say that some of the posts on McCann hashtag left me spitting feathers. Never was there a truer saying, when it comes to McCann hashtag than this saying: "never argue with idiots, because they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience",

by sallypelt 20.01.14 19:17

russiandoll wrote:Sallyp, there once was a forum called Just a Thought You Know, was closed down and resurfaced as number 2 [ pardon the pun!]

hence JATYK2.

Wear full decontamination kit and limit yourself to the odd peep when something important happens and you should exit unscathed.

I estimate max 3 people there, others are figments of their imagination.

Pedro is good for a laugh.

Thank you, russiandoll. I just saw your post as I scrolled back. I miss so many posts on here, as I am busy doing other things. soz

by aiyoyo 20.01.14 19:22

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Yes, I was about to say that it's not being treated as an accident - followed by a mad panic - as was my initial thought.

Bear in mind Scottish law differs from England.
Murder comes under "Common Law" in Scotland, and definition of "Murder" may be different from England and Wales.
Scottish Law is very codified, and they have three verdicts system "Guilty" "Not Guilty" and "Not Proven", the latter two results in acquittal.

Someone au fait with Scotland Law may be able to enlighten us.

by aiyoyo 20.01.14 19:23

ultimaThule wrote:Ridiculous it may be, PeterMac, but many judicial systems around the world are based on English law which enshrines the right to a fair trial.

But she is tried in Scotland.
Scotland Law differs from England and Wales.

by Guest 20.01.14 19:30

Predominant English law ...
And here was me thinking it was mainly Napoleon ...
Never too old to learn ... winkwink

by aiyoyo 20.01.14 19:46

PeterMac wrote:Any comment from Missing People - he was reported missing after all
Any comment from the McCanns - he was suspected to have been abducted by a stranger after all
Any comment from Mitchell - he has been silent for a long time
Any comment from Pro-Child-neglect McCann supporters

No I thought not.

Their collective silence certainly is Golden

Actually Missing People tried to make money on the back of his name. They'd a 'Donate £3' icon on 'Missing Mikaeel Poster" that was dismantled in a flash as soon as his body was found.
Ditto Mccanns who erased all mention of him on their Facebook. Then u-turned by leaving a condolence message after being criticized by netizens.
Pro-child-neglect Mccanns supporters retreat to sewage to lie low.
Mitchell couldn't be arsed because there is no money and no glory in this for him.

by della70 20.01.14 20:16

NEWS
GOT A STORY? EMAIL: TALKBACK@THE-SUN.CO.UK
Mikaeel mum charged with three-year-old’s murder
Mikaeel Kular - Page 27 SNA2001MM---_1895492a

Mikaeel Kular and mother Rosdeep

[color][font][color][font]

By HARRY HAWKINS
Published: 3 hrs ago

THE mother of tragic three-year-old Mikaeel Kular has appeared in court charged with murder and attempting to defeat the ends of justice.
Rosdeep Kular appeared at Edinburgh Sheriff Court this afternoon and was remanded in custody.
Mikaeel was reported missing from his home in the city on Thursday, prompting a major search operation.
His body was found shortly before midnight on Friday in a wooded area behind his aunt's house around 25 miles away in Kirkcaldy, Fife.
On Saturday night police said a 33-year-old woman had been arrested and charged in connection with his death.
Hundreds of local volunteers had joined officers and various agencies to hunt for the youngster in north Edinburgh, often in bad weather and cold temperatures, before cops found remains which were later identified as those of Mikaeel. Sorry if this has already been posted ,but sounds like he was there for some time .RIP LITTLE MAN [/font][/color][/font][/color]

by ultimaThule 20.01.14 20:43

aiyoyo wrote:
PeterMac wrote:Any comment from Missing People - he was reported missing after all
Any comment from the McCanns - he was suspected to have been abducted by a stranger after all
Any comment from Mitchell - he has been silent for a long time
Any comment from Pro-Child-neglect McCann supporters

No I thought not.

Their collective silence certainly is Golden

Actually Missing People tried to make money on the back of his name. They'd a 'Donate £3' icon on 'Missing Mikaeel Poster" that was dismantled in a flash as soon as his body was found.
Ditto Mccanns who erased all mention of him on their Facebook. Then u-turned by leaving a condolence message after being criticized by netizens.
Pro-child-neglect Mccanns supporters retreat to sewage to lie low.
Mitchell couldn't be arsed because there is no money and no glory in this for him.

Actually Missing People tried to make money on the back of his name. They'd a 'Donate £3' icon on 'Missing Mikaeel Poster" that was dismantled in a flash as soon as his body was found bigshock

What, if anything, did this highly questionable charity have to do with facilitating the search for Mikaeel, or was this particular money raising venture the brainchild of Missing People's well-known Ambassador who famously stayed at home while police officers and strangers searched for days/weeks for her daughter. confused

It seems to me that Kate McCann rapidly became accustomed to living off the proceeds of the immense con she and her spouse perpetrated on an initially unsuspecting world and that, given its brazen manipulation of statistics relating to missing children, she's leading Missing People by example.

by **PeterMac** 20.01.14 20:56

Immensely frustrating that the Scottish system has not spelled out the details of the charge
''On or about Xth of January 2014. . ."
Between Xth and Yth January 2014 . . . ."

That would tell its own story.

by **PeterMac** 20.01.14 21:02

ultimaThule wrote:
Actually Missing People tried to make money on the back of his name. They'd a 'Donate £3' icon on 'Missing Mikaeel Poster" that was dismantled in a flash as soon as his body was found
What, if anything, did this highly questionable charity have to do with facilitating the search for Mikaeel, or was this particular money raising venture the brainchild of Missing People's well-known Ambassador who famously stayed at home while police officers and strangers searched for days/weeks for her daughter.
It seems to me that Kate McCann rapidly became accustomed to living off the proceeds of the imo con she and her spouse perpetrated on an initially unsuspecting world and that, given its brazen manipulation of statistics relating to missing children, she's leading Missing People by example.

Does anyone have a screen shot of this. The Wayback machine has not captured this piece of Ultimate Nauseating Hypocritical Fraud.

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