Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

by sweetex 08.10.13 19:19

Also further down Anne Guedes twitter account

Jerry Lawton ‏[ltr]@JerryLawton[/ltr]2h
judge says book cover says it contains `exclusive revelations'..`ok so then I have to conclude this is misleading advertising', #McCann

anne guedes ‏[ltr]@aacg[/ltr]2h
@JerryLawton @xklamation And, getting no clear answer, she concluded firmly : Then there are no revelations !

by plebgate 08.10.13 19:21

Thank you SallyP - would be interesting to know if same applies in Portugal?

Snipped from article in Daily Mail:
"
Madeleine's mother flew to Portugal for the start of the libel trial last month - but had left it to friends and relatives to testify before Mr Amaral's side launched its defence."

by **tigger** 08.10.13 19:26

plebgate wrote:Snipped from today's Daily Mail article:
"

Judge Maria Emilia Melo e Castro, referring to Kate by her maiden name as she revealed her change of heart, said: 'On October 2 Kate Healy made an application to make a statement to this court.

'The court will decide on this application once evidence has been heard by both sides as only then will it be it able to judge on the need for and the pertinence of this application.'

If given the go-ahead, the McCanns and Mr Amaral are expected to speak on the same day on or after November 27 when the last hearing in the trial at Lisbon's Palace of Justice is scheduled."

Why would the judge refer to Mrs. by her maiden name - was it her maiden name on the" application to be heard" to the court.

If so, why use her maiden name - is it possible that the rumours of a break up are true?

Is it legal to use your maiden name on an application to court if you are married and have legally taken your husband's surname?

Booth was equally keen on her maiden name, despite trying to be the UK's ' first lady' ( not necessary you already have the Queen) and despite being thePM's wife.
Look at the Blairs and look at the McCanns - what do you see? The same ambition and the same thundering bad taste.
Booth tried to take over from the royals by launching a ship early in her career. Blair was looking for a new role in 2007, one of which was president of Europe. So I think the source of the original protection lies with Blair and his cronies.

by **Tony Bennett** 08.10.13 19:28

tiny wrote:IS THIS RIGHT??????

The police chief, still a serving officer despite being convicted in January of torturing a crime suspect and receiving a two and a half suspended jail sentence, has previously claimed he believes the McCanns concealed Madeleine's body.

It must be frankly admitted that this is true, moreover it is Tavares de Almeida whose interim report of 10 September 2007 has been much quoted by those who doubt the McCanns' abduction claim.

The claim is that a suspect was well and truly duffed up by Almeida and one or two others when being questioned. This happened in 2000 - 13 years ago. It is alleged that, inter alia, he was beaten with some kind of metal pole or rod on the soles of his feet.

Looking at the first link below, the charges were brought I think in 2007, possibly after Madeleine McCann was reported missing, I am not sure.

He and another police officer were indeed found guilty of beating this suspect - and handed 2.5-year suspended jail setnences - but the verdict was not reached until 25 January 2013. On conviction, Almeida is said to have stated: 'I'm relieved it's all over'.

I read somewhere that Almeida had appealed against his conviction. Since appeals take a long time to be heard in Portugal, as we have come to learn over the years, this may not yet be all over.

Here are the links, anyway - translations are a bit difficult to follow in places:

Link 1:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/10/14/madeleine-mccann-detective-on-trial-for-torturing-suspect-in-unrelated-case/

Link 2:

Suspended sentence for duo PJ convicted of torture

Two chief inspectors of the PJ were sentenced on Friday to two years and six months imprisonment with suspended sentence for torture against the official CP Virgolino Borges, told Lusa the victim's lawyer.
January 25, 18h09

The news of the sentencing of two inspectors of the Judicial Police was advanced by SIC Notícias.

The collective of judges from the 3rd to the criminal court of Lisbon condemned the torture inspectors Chief Joseph Diamond Santos and Vitor Tavares de Almeida and the payment of a fine of 80 euros / month for the same period, told the Lusa attorney Jerónimo Martins.

Two inspectors PJ convicted of torture

Lawyer shows the victim was relieved by the end of a process that has dragged on for 13 years. "From what I understand, it is the first time that such a process leads to the conviction of persons in concrete," says the Express.

LInk 3:

Rui Gustavo and Ricardo Marques

17:44 Friday, January 25, 2013

Two chief inspectors of the PJ were sentenced today to prison terms of two and a half years, suspended upon payment of a fine in that monthly period, for having tortured a man DCCB's premises in March 2000. Another element of PJ was acquitted.

In a judgment with about 40 pages, the Lisbon Criminal Court sentenced the two chief inspectors of the Judicial Police to pay each month, each, the sum of 80 euros for a fund that will ultimately accrue to the victim, Virgolino Borges, who was assistant in the process. The decision was known in 3. ª stick, by 14h30.

Jerónimo Martins, lawyer Virgolino Borges, was relieved by the end of a process that has dragged on for 13 years. "From what I understand, it is the first time that such a process leads to the conviction of persons in concrete," he told Express.

The three inspectors - Diamond José dos Santos, Vitor Tavares de Almeida and Antonio Alves da Cunha, were part of the same brigade of the then Central Directorate for Combating Gangsterism (DCCB). In March 2000, Virgolino Borges was taken to the PJ on suspicion of theft (a process that eventually involved). On days 2 and 3, he complained, was beaten repeatedly with a board and punched in the feet by PJ inspectors.

In a first phase investigation, the prosecutor eventually dismiss the case. At that time, consisted Virgolino assistant and requested the opening statement - which culminated in the indictment of three police for the crime of torture, criminal whose frame varies between one and five years in prison.

The two defendants, Diamantino dos Santos de Almeida and Tavares were convicted co-author and should appeal the conviction.

The three inspectors Judicial, both now convicted and who was acquitted, all remain active.

by tasprin 08.10.13 19:33

candyfloss wrote:This is not very helpful at all....

Former family liaison officer Ricardo Paiva told the court: 'What is in the book is based on our investigation and contains the professional and personal opinions of Goncalo Amaral as a police officer.
'Everything that is there can be found in the case files.'
Contradicting earlier claims by the McCanns' family and friends that Mr Amaral's book had hindered their search for their daughter by turning the Portuguese public against them, he added: 'The flow of information continued to come in regularly.
Luis Neves, head of a national police unit tasked with investigating organised crime, including kidnappings, said Mr Amaral's conclusion Madeleine was dead was an idea accepted early on by her parents.
He insisted Kate was the driving force behind a failed July 2007 search for Madeleine by controversial ex-south African detective Danie Krugel, who claimed to have invented a machine which could locate a body if provided with a DNA sample

Kate McCann complained about the cadaver dog, who had an excellent record, as not being an "exact science" yet she hired a crackpot like Krugel with his funny gadget. It's difficult to believe anyone would "relax" on seeing a cadaver dog alert if their child had been missing for months.

“The dogs ultimately ‘alerted’. I felt myself starting to relax a little. This was not what I would call an exact science”.

by ultimaThule 08.10.13 19:34

tiny wrote:IS THIS RIGHT??????

The police chief, still a serving officer despite being convicted in January of torturing a crime suspect and receiving a two and a half suspended jail sentence, has previously claimed he believes the McCanns concealed Madeleine's body.

If it is it could be that the officer is appealing his conviction but, in any event, it's not dissimilar to what happens in the UK's police forces where officers who should have been subject to reprimand or dismissal continue in service and, in some cases, are promoted.

by sallypelt 08.10.13 19:37

tasprin wrote:
candyfloss wrote:This is not very helpful at all....

Former family liaison officer Ricardo Paiva told the court: 'What is in the book is based on our investigation and contains the professional and personal opinions of Goncalo Amaral as a police officer.
'Everything that is there can be found in the case files.'
Contradicting earlier claims by the McCanns' family and friends that Mr Amaral's book had hindered their search for their daughter by turning the Portuguese public against them, he added: 'The flow of information continued to come in regularly.
Luis Neves, head of a national police unit tasked with investigating organised crime, including kidnappings, said Mr Amaral's conclusion Madeleine was dead was an idea accepted early on by her parents.
He insisted Kate was the driving force behind a failed July 2007 search for Madeleine by controversial ex-south African detective Danie Krugel, who claimed to have invented a machine which could locate a body if provided with a DNA sample
Kate McCann complained about the cadaver dog, who had an excellent record, as not being an "exact science" yet she hired a crackpot like Krugel with his funny gadget. It's difficult to believe anyone would "relax" on seeing a cadaver dog alert if their child had been missing for months.

“The dogs ultimately ‘alerted’. I felt myself starting to relax a little. This was not what I would call an exact science”.

I have always been convinced that Kate thought that Krugel WOULD find the body, AWAY from the apartment. It could then be said that the "abductor" had killed Madeleine and dumped or buried her body. But Krugel failed to find a body. It wasn't until the British dogs were called, that the scent of death was found in the apartment, and there was no way the McCann's wish this away, so what they did was discredit ever piece of evidence that pointed to THEIR guilt.

by Guest 08.10.13 19:45

plebgate wrote:She's one hell of a Judge by the sound of it. Oh eeerrrr. Hope Mrs. is very well prepared.

As I understand it, under Portuguese trial law, when one of the parties concerned demands to be heard as a witness, the questioning is done not by the attorneys but by the Judge.

Parties' attorneys may only ask for clarification of answers.

Long live the Portuguese legal system!

And the Judge!

by JackieL 08.10.13 19:50

sallypelt wrote:T @JerryLawton: Judge to Paiva: `What's new in the book that's not in the police files?' Paiva: `Nothing' #McCann

Bump!!!

by JackieL 08.10.13 19:51

Portia wrote:
plebgate wrote:She's one hell of a Judge by the sound of it. Oh eeerrrr. Hope Mrs. is very well prepared.
As I understand it, under Portuguese trial law, when one of the parties concerned demands to be heard as a witness, the questioning is done not by the attorneys but by the Judge.

Parties' attorneys may only ask for clarification of answers.

Long live the Portuguese legal system!

And the Judge!

Hear! Hear!

by marconi 08.10.13 19:51

In official cases, a woman Always is named by her maiden name because she can marry to another man and or she can get divorced. On my passport it is written my full maiden name, "married to...." and my husband's name.

On his book, Amaral reffers to Kate Healy, never to Kate MCann. Wisely enough, Elizabeth Taylor never changed hers. Imagine!

I have two questions:

why didn't Isabel Duare show up on the hearing today, such an important day, Amaral's defensers?

Is she enjoying the Algarvian sun?

by plebgate 08.10.13 19:59

Thank you Marconi for explanation.

Waiting to hear why ID not in court today. Someone posted earlier whether she has been banned from the court because of her reported tirade last week?

by Guest 08.10.13 20:02

candyfloss wrote:Jerry Lawton ‏@JerryLawton 9m
#McCann libel hearing adjourned until Nov 5. If allowed Madeleine's parents & Amaral expected to speak on same day on or after Nov 27

Wonderful: that's AFTER the Crimewatch conundrum

Meaning that the BBC will now have to scrutinize very very carefully what they are the McCs state on public television, as it's more than likely that the Portuguese have managed the art of rigging a TV antenna or two by now, and, fat, lazy and sardine munching, a retired police officer and an aristocratic lady will be very closely watching the McCs address the nation

and bury the libel trial doing so

by aiyoyo 08.10.13 20:05

Portia wrote:
plebgate wrote:She's one hell of a Judge by the sound of it. Oh eeerrrr. Hope Mrs. is very well prepared.
As I understand it, under Portuguese trial law, when one of the parties concerned demands to be heard as a witness, the questioning is done not by the attorneys but by the Judge.

Parties' attorneys may only ask for clarification of answers.

Long live the Portuguese legal system!

And the Judge!

Wonder what the Judge would want Kate & Gerry to clarify if she approves the application?

What could she be wanting to ask them ?

Could it be: In what way did the book affect you that being suspect did not affect you?

by marconi 08.10.13 20:08

plebgate wrote:Thank you Marconi for explanation.

Waiting to hear why ID not in court today. Someone posted earlier whether she has been banned from the court because of her reported tirade last week?

I don't believe the tirade was the reason. If it was, can you imagine a hearing in Italy?

I suspect something else.

by Guest 08.10.13 20:09

plebgate wrote:Thank you SallyP - would be interesting to know if same applies in Portugal?

Snipped from article in Daily Mail:
"
Madeleine's mother flew to Portugal for the start of the libel trial last month - but had left it to friends and relatives to testify before Mr Amaral's side launched its defence."

Pointedly not naming her dr McCann,

Benignly not naming her dr Healy

by aiyoyo 08.10.13 20:09

Cristobell wrote:Wasn't Isabel there?

Nope!
Maybe she didn't have the guts to face all those Police Officers.

by JackieL 08.10.13 20:13

Portia wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Jerry Lawton ‏@JerryLawton 9m
#McCann libel hearing adjourned until Nov 5. If allowed Madeleine's parents & Amaral expected to speak on same day on or after Nov 27
Wonderful: that's AFTER the Crimewatch conundrum

Meaning that the BBC will now have to scrutinize very very carefully what they are the McCs state on public television, as it's more than likely that the Portuguese have managed the art of rigging a TV antenna or two by now, and, fat, lazy and sardine munching, a retired police officer and an aristocratic lady will be very closely watching the McCs address the nation

and bury the libel trial doing so

excellent point!!!!!

by marconi 08.10.13 20:17

The McCanns must have known, since July, that it was possible for them to state in the hearing.
But only now they started asking to take part in it.
I wonder if their intention would be to delay the conclusion, as much as possible.

by Guest 08.10.13 20:18

Please, cut her some slack!

She's only doing her job

Anyone is entitled to legal representation

Dr Duartes personal feelings have nothing whatsoever to do with what she is hired to do; her only obligation is to stand by her clients and get them the best results she legally can. Period.

As a fellow attorney, I ask you to remember this.

A lawyers job is not to right things which are wrong, but to ensure that your client has his say in court while all his constitutional privileges are preserved.

If he screws up after you've taken care of this preservation, then that's his own doing.

So be it: you've fulfilled your duties

by JackieL 08.10.13 20:29

From the Daily Mail's article online:

"Former family liaison officer Ricardo Paiva told the court: 'What is in the book is based on our investigation and contains the professional and personal opinions of Goncalo Amaral as a police officer.

'Everything that is there can be found in the case files.' "

My thoughts tonight are with brave Tony Bennett who FACED JAIL from a UK court for saying the same thing. Tony - I salute you. roses

by Ollie1 08.10.13 20:35

IMO the McCanns thought that Mr Amaral would just hand over money like the papers did. The McCanns are desperate to get their hands on any money Mr Amaral may have, but it has backfired on them big time and they must think that if they give evidence they can turn this trial around.

I don't think that the judge making a point of there being no exclusive revelations in the book is bad as Mr Amaral did not make any claims in his book that couldn't be substantiated, he has told the truth and what is in the files unlike KM whose book is her untruthful account of the truth.

by ultimaThule 08.10.13 20:44

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CFEQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.itv.com%2Fnews%2F2013-10-08%2Fkate-mccann-asks-to-give-evidence-in-court-during-in-libel-trial%2F&ei=815UUuiKD6a60QWt9YD4Cw&usg=AFQjCNHIfg6MXsd0c9KXYKjwvZ8vpPnQlA&bvm=bv.53537100,d.d2k&cad=rja

The Mail has left the floodgate ajar and I'm waiting for it to fully open...

by **Tony Bennett** 08.10.13 20:48

ultimaThule wrote:http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CFEQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.itv.com%2Fnews%2F2013-10-08%2Fkate-mccann-asks-to-give-evidence-in-court-during-in-libel-trial%2F&ei=815UUuiKD6a60QWt9YD4Cw&usg=AFQjCNHIfg6MXsd0c9KXYKjwvZ8vpPnQlA&bvm=bv.53537100,d.d2k&cad=rja

From the above link:

"Kate McCann has said she wants to defend herself in open court ..."

It says on the court record that the defendants are:

1 Goncalo Amaral
2 TVi
3 Guerra e Paz
4 Valentim de Carvalho

by ultimaThule 08.10.13 20:56

plebgate wrote:Thank you Marconi for explanation.

Waiting to hear why ID not in court today. Someone posted earlier whether she has been banned from the court because of her reported tirade last week?

That was me wondering with tongue in cheek, plebgate.

It would be ironic if ID had to unexpectedly have a day off to care for child smilie

Perhaps the reason for her absence will be revealed when Anne Guedes posts the transcripts of today's proceedings.