Kate and Dogs - all sorts
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Re: Kate and Dogs - all sorts
tigger wrote:Opening this (this is not just about Eddie and Keela but about all other dogs) with page 86/87 of the Book:
4th May:
page 86
At about nine o’clock we all went out on to Rua Dr Agostinho da Silva
to find out what was going on and to look out for the PJ. The GNR patrol was still in evidence, although again, there didn’t seem to be much sense of urgency. So what had the police been doing? It was hard to tell. According to the PJ files, to which we did not have access until August 2008, two patrol dogs were brought to Praia da Luz at 2am on 4 May and four search-and-rescue dogs at 8am. I don’t remember seeing any police dogs until the morning, and if there were any specific police searches overnight, they were not apparent. The only searches I was aware of were those carried out by ourselves, fellow guests and the Mark Warner staff.
According to the files, the tracker dogs did not go out until 11pm on 4 May. At some point in the first twenty-four hours (I could not say when exactly, but probably that morning) I recall one of the GNR patrol officers asking us for some of Madeleine’s clothing or belongings to enable these dogs to identify her scent. I fetched the pink princess blanket she took to bed with her every night, which they took, and some of her clothes, which they didn’t.
unquote
This little gem is full of interest and contradiction.
According to the PJ files - there were two patrol dogs at 2. am.
Four search and rescue dogs at 8. am.
Tracker dogs at 11.00 am.
It seems Kate doesn't count the first 2 or 6 dogs as being of any use. Does she mean that the patrol dogs patrolled and didn't sniff anything?
That the s and e dogs weren't the right ones either?
That only the Tracker dogs could do the business?
Most interesting is the phrase 'and some of her clothes'. No way would I say that. I'd say 'and her little pink dress that she wore the day before, the pink hat she always wore - I would say which of her clothes I'd offered.
She also doesn't say why they didn't take the clothes.
If she did not go out how could she have seen them anyway?
She said that Gerry told her to stay in. So what is it she's trying to say? Trying to accuse the Portuguese is her intentions, its so clear she's lieing to shift the blame here.
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Re: Kate and Dogs - all sorts
The same FBI the McCanns wanted brought in. The same FBI who trained the forensic artist.tigger wrote:
The dog handler of Eddie and Keela who searched PdL for traces of Maddie is now employed by the FBI. US don't seem to have a problem with dogs.
The "notoriously unreliable" FBI ?
Re: Kate and Dogs - all sorts
May God forgive that ghastly woman claiming the only ones searching were themselves, fellow Warners guests and staff. An out and out lie, she and her equally bone idle husband stayed in the apartment while others searched. What an absolute slap in the face to the PJ and people of PDL. When Jez Wilkins went to say goodbye to them on 5th May, he found Gerry and Kate by the pool. And why did they need their entire extended family out there with them, together with childhood friends, bridesmaids, distant cousins and the priest who married them? And were Warners paying for it all?
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Re: Kate and Dogs - all sorts
Cristobell wrote:May God forgive that ghastly woman claiming the only ones searching were themselves, fellow Warners guests and staff. An out and out lie, she and her equally bone idle husband stayed in the apartment while others searched. What an absolute slap in the face to the PJ and people of PDL. When Jez Wilkins went to say goodbye to them on 5th May, he found Gerry and Kate by the pool. And why did they need their entire extended family out there with them, together with childhood friends, bridesmaids, distant cousins and the priest who married them? And were Warners paying for it all?
Also, wasn't JW told that his help wasn't needed searching that night
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Re: Kate and Dogs - all sorts
They did Candyfloss, at approximately 1.00am, woke Jez and his family to tell them about 'abduction', but said they didn't need his help searching. Seems like they left all the physical searching to gullible mugs.
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Re: Kate and Dogs - all sorts
You only have to look on youtube for news reports from 4th May 2007, to see there is police and people searching everywhere, several police dogs too. For example channel 4 news.
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Kate's Clothes
from Joana Morais site.
This is the Scenic which gave positive hits.
It appears KM is wearing the black and white trousers which the cadaver dog also indicated.
Be interesting to know when this picture was taking, and their movements that day... Oh for hindsight and a cartracking device!
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Re: Kate and Dogs - all sorts
These are the same outfits they wore on the occasion of their sudden departure from Portugal.AB1 wrote:
from Joana Morais site.
This is the Scenic which gave positive hits.
It appears KM is wearing the black and white trousers which the cadaver dog also indicated.
Be interesting to know when this picture was taking, and their movements that day... Oh for hindsight and a cartracking device!
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Re: Kate and Dogs - all sorts
Untouched as in: brimming with DNA materiel from the missing child? Now, that would be great news, wouldn't it?Angelique wrote:Late arriving as usual - sorry.
I was oddly enough reading yesterday about Madeleine's clothes. I found a reference to what happened in an interview with Oprah here
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id226.html
Clip By Sara Nuwar
26/04/2009
"And Kate told how Amelie has taken to borrowing some of Madeleine's clothes-although the oufits last worn by her in Portugal are kept tucked away and untouched."
At least I was reading if not actually here at the same time!
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Re: Kate and Dogs - all sorts
So it's totally logical that the only DNA made available came from a pillowcase in Rothley.Portia wrote:Untouched as in: brimming with DNA materiel from the missing child? Now, that would be great news, wouldn't it?Angelique wrote:Late arriving as usual - sorry.
I was oddly enough reading yesterday about Madeleine's clothes. I found a reference to what happened in an interview with Oprah here
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id226.html
Clip By Sara Nuwar
26/04/2009
"And Kate told how Amelie has taken to borrowing some of Madeleine's clothes-although the oufits last worn by her in Portugal are kept tucked away and untouched."
At least I was reading if not actually here at the same time!
Which imo is not a 100% reliable sample. It could have been from Amelie. I believe the wording of Lowe's report does not exclude that possibility.
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Re: Kate and Dogs - all sorts
Hallo Tigger,tigger wrote:So it's totally logical that the only DNA made available came from a pillowcase in Rothley.Portia wrote:Untouched as in: brimming with DNA materiel from the missing child? Now, that would be great news, wouldn't it?Angelique wrote:Late arriving as usual - sorry.
I was oddly enough reading yesterday about Madeleine's clothes. I found a reference to what happened in an interview with Oprah here
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id226.html
Clip By Sara Nuwar
26/04/2009
"And Kate told how Amelie has taken to borrowing some of Madeleine's clothes-although the oufits last worn by her in Portugal are kept tucked away and untouched."
At least I was reading if not actually here at the same time!
Which imo is not a 100% reliable sample. It could have been from Amelie. I believe the wording of Lowe's report does not exclude that possibility.
Way I read it, it's Maddies' clothes from Portugal, not Amelies', which are tucked away untouched. Aside from the thorough cleaning immediately after the child went missing of course. Wonder if the same fate befell her clothes which did not make the trip to PdL. Were they 'disinfected' from DNA too?
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Re: Kate and Dogs - all sorts
I meant that the pillowcase from which the control sample was taken cannot be 100% certain to contain the DNA of Maddie. The wording of the Lowe report is ambiguous imo.
As for Amelie wearing Maddie's clothes, Amelie was tiny at that time. It's also not the instinctive motherly behaviour to give the clothes of a lost or deceased child to a sibling to wear.
But I always got the impression that spending money on children's clothes and shoes wasn't a priority with the McCanns. Which is one of the many reasons the pretty clothes on the Donegal pictures stand out. Never seen in any other photo, a too large sun dress in the kitchen photo, the cheap tennis outfit, not at all new sandals.
There should have been masses of Maddie's DNA in clothes and shoes in 5a. Also it's against any instinct to wash clothes from a child either abducted or deceased.
I have a scarf which I gave to my dearest friend years ago. It's in a box, I will never wear it, but neither willi wash it.
As for Amelie wearing Maddie's clothes, Amelie was tiny at that time. It's also not the instinctive motherly behaviour to give the clothes of a lost or deceased child to a sibling to wear.
But I always got the impression that spending money on children's clothes and shoes wasn't a priority with the McCanns. Which is one of the many reasons the pretty clothes on the Donegal pictures stand out. Never seen in any other photo, a too large sun dress in the kitchen photo, the cheap tennis outfit, not at all new sandals.
There should have been masses of Maddie's DNA in clothes and shoes in 5a. Also it's against any instinct to wash clothes from a child either abducted or deceased.
I have a scarf which I gave to my dearest friend years ago. It's in a box, I will never wear it, but neither willi wash it.
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Re: Kate and Dogs - all sorts
My favorite part is:tigger wrote:Opening this (this is not just about Eddie and Keela but about all other dogs) with page 86/87 of the Book:
4th May:
page 86
At about nine o’clock we all went out on to Rua Dr Agostinho da Silva
to find out what was going on and to look out for the PJ. The GNR patrol was still in evidence, although again, there didn’t seem to be much sense of urgency. So what had the police been doing? It was hard to tell. According to the PJ files, to which we did not have access until August 2008, two patrol dogs were brought to Praia da Luz at 2am on 4 May and four search-and-rescue dogs at 8am. I don’t remember seeing any police dogs until the morning, and if there were any specific police searches overnight, they were not apparent. The only searches I was aware of were those carried out by ourselves, fellow guests and the Mark Warner staff.
According to the files, the tracker dogs did not go out until 11pm on 4 May. At some point in the first twenty-four hours (I could not say when exactly, but probably that morning) I recall one of the GNR patrol officers asking us for some of Madeleine’s clothing or belongings to enable these dogs to identify her scent. I fetched the pink princess blanket she took to bed with her every night, which they took, and some of her clothes, which they didn’t.
unquote
This little gem is full of interest and contradiction.
According to the PJ files - there were two patrol dogs at 2. am.
Four search and rescue dogs at 8. am.
Tracker dogs at 11.00 am.
It seems Kate doesn't count the first 2 or 6 dogs as being of any use. Does she mean that the patrol dogs patrolled and didn't sniff anything?
That the s and e dogs weren't the right ones either?
That only the Tracker dogs could do the business?
Most interesting is the phrase 'and some of her clothes'. No way would I say that. I'd say 'and her little pink dress that she wore the day before, the pink hat she always wore - I would say which of her clothes I'd offered.
She also doesn't say why they didn't take the clothes.
Right: YOU HAVE TO BE OUTSIDE AND SEARCHING TO SEE THEM, YOU ........... Or do you think you can see the police, AND ALL THOSE OTHER PEOPLE, searching when you get some shut eye.According to the PJ files, [/b]to which we did not have access until August 2008, two patrol dogs were brought to Praia da Luz at 2am on 4 May and four search-and-rescue dogs at 8am. I don’t remember seeing any police dogs until the morning, and if there were any specific police searches overnight, they were not apparent.
The woman is an absolute idiot, she cannot even lie well.
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"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?" Gerry
http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0
http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/
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Re: Kate and Dogs - all sorts
Untouched after they were washed (for free) by the MW laundry service. All organized by the British ambassador, who has no greater worry than to make sure Kate has clean bloomers.Portia wrote:Untouched as in: brimming with DNA materiel from the missing child? Now, that would be great news, wouldn't it?Angelique wrote:Late arriving as usual - sorry.
I was oddly enough reading yesterday about Madeleine's clothes. I found a reference to what happened in an interview with Oprah here
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id226.html
Clip By Sara Nuwar
26/04/2009
"And Kate told how Amelie has taken to borrowing some of Madeleine's clothes-although the oufits last worn by her in Portugal are kept tucked away and untouched."
At least I was reading if not actually here at the same time!
Now I think of it, she probably needed that, alot of them.
You really cannot make this up, can you.
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"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?" Gerry
http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0
http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/
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Re: Kate and Dogs - all sorts
What fascinates me in the Operationtigger wrote:I meant that the pillowcase from which the control sample was taken cannot be 100% certain to contain the DNA of Maddie. The wording of the Lowe report is ambiguous imo.
As for Amelie wearing Maddie's clothes, Amelie was tiny at that time. It's also not the instinctive motherly behaviour to give the clothes of a lost or deceased child to a sibling to wear.
But I always got the impression that spending money on children's clothes and shoes wasn't a priority with the McCanns. Which is one of the many reasons the pretty clothes on the Donegal pictures stand out. Never seen in any other photo, a too large sun dress in the kitchen photo, the cheap tennis outfit, not at all new sandals.
There should have been masses of Maddie's DNA in clothes and shoes in 5a. Also it's against any instinct to wash clothes from a child either abducted or deceased.
I have a scarf which I gave to my dearest friend years ago. It's in a box, I will never wear it, but neither willi wash it.
____________________
"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?" Gerry
http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0
http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/
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Re: Kate and Dogs - all sorts
It makes me sick to my stomach that nothing comes out of these 'inquiries'. No-one gives a poop. Heaven forbid people may learn about DNA and question whether that has been pursued. Just sick.lj wrote:What fascinates me in the Operationtigger wrote:I meant that the pillowcase from which the control sample was taken cannot be 100% certain to contain the DNA of Maddie. The wording of the Lowe report is ambiguous imo.
As for Amelie wearing Maddie's clothes, Amelie was tiny at that time. It's also not the instinctive motherly behaviour to give the clothes of a lost or deceased child to a sibling to wear.
But I always got the impression that spending money on children's clothes and shoes wasn't a priority with the McCanns. Which is one of the many reasons the pretty clothes on the Donegal pictures stand out. Never seen in any other photo, a too large sun dress in the kitchen photo, the cheap tennis outfit, not at all new sandals.
There should have been masses of Maddie's DNA in clothes and shoes in 5a. Also it's against any instinct to wash clothes from a child either abducted or deceased.
I have a scarf which I gave to my dearest friend years ago. It's in a box, I will never wear it, but neither willi wash it.StGrange is that 2.5 years and millions and millions of £s later, their is no word about all those controversial DNA samples. Nada.
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Re: Kate and Dogs - all sorts
I've said it before and I say it again: IF I were the police, I wouldn't tell you anything about what I think, research or know. And would only feed you some old dry bones to keep you content [and maybe some "lies" to turn you away from what I think, research and know ...].
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Worth posting again - lest anyone forgets
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-482105/Madeleine-McCanns-consult-American-lawyers-cadaver-dog-evidence.html
So that sentence should now read
"The new judge agreed with an analysis of the three dogs' track record by Zapata's defence team that found they were correct 100 per cent, 100 per cent and 100 per cent of the time.
It still remains fascinating that Kate chose to include this hogwash in her book, several years after Zapata had confessed, in a blatant attempt to mislead and deceive.
And then old man Zapata totally trashed the McCann's defence by admitting not only his Guilt, but also that the body had been in every one of the positions the dogs had indicated - AND IN NO OTHERS.Madeleine: McCanns consult American lawyers over 'cadaver dog' evidence
Last updated at 18:07 16 September 2007
Kate and Gerry McCann's legal team have consulted the lawyers of an American man accused of murdering his estranged wife in a case where cadaver dog evidence was key, a source said today.
Two British sniffer dogs, one capable of detecting blood and human remains, were brought to Portugal in early August.
The cadaver dog picked up a "scent of death" on everything from Mrs McCann's clothes to missing Madeleine's favourite soft toy Cuddle Cat, according to reports.
During police interviews the McCanns were shown a video of the animal "going crazy" when it approached their Renault Scenic hire car, newspapers have claimed.
Leaked reports from the investigation have suggested Madeleine's parents could have accidentally killed her and then disposed of her body using the car.
Although they do not know the full details of Portuguese prosecutors' case against them, the McCanns are concerned it may rest on the dog's reaction.
They want to highlight the judge's dismissal of cadaver dog evidence in the high-profile Eugene Zapata murder trial in Madison, Wisconsin.
Helpful hound: Eddie was also drafted to help in the search for Madeleine
The couple's lawyers have already contacted Zapata's defence team, who are now sending their large file on the matter to Britain.
Zapata's estranged wife, flight instructor Jeanette Zapata, was 37 when she vanished on October 11 1976 after seeing her three children off to school. Her body has never been found.
Detectives suspected Zapata of involvement in her disappearance but did not charge him because of a lack of evidence.
Police decided to conduct new searches using cadaver dogs, a new investigative technique, when an old friend of Mrs Zapata contacted them about the case in 2004.
Zapata, 68, was charged with first-degree murder last year after the dogs indicated they sniffed human remains in a small basement "crawl space" at the former family home in Madison and other properties linked to him.
But Dane County Judge Patrick Fiedler ruled last month that the evidence that led to the charge could not be put before the jury.
He said the dogs were too unreliable in detecting the odour of remains and noted that no remains were actually found.
The judge agreed with an analysis of the three dogs' track record by Zapata's defence team that found they were incorrect 78 per cent, 71 per cent and 62 per cent of the time.
According to the Wisconsin State Journal, Mr Fiedler told the court: "The state has failed to convince me that it's any more reliable than the flip of a coin." Zapata denies murder, and the jury in the case went out on Friday to start considering its verdict.
A source close to the McCanns' solicitors said: "The legal team are in touch with the lawyers who represented the defendant in the case.
"The court papers, giving the legal submissions, are on their way to the McCann team for consideration.
"At the moment there are no formal charges and therefore there is no formal allegation against which the McCann team can work. We are having to work a little bit in the dark.
"But given that we understand the central plank of what the police are alleging involves sniffer dogs - albeit British ones which are said to be particularly good - this is important and relevant, and will be raised with the police and brought to the judge's attention."
So that sentence should now read
"The new judge agreed with an analysis of the three dogs' track record by Zapata's defence team that found they were correct 100 per cent, 100 per cent and 100 per cent of the time.
It still remains fascinating that Kate chose to include this hogwash in her book, several years after Zapata had confessed, in a blatant attempt to mislead and deceive.
Re: Kate and Dogs - all sorts
Peter, what else can they do, but dish the dogs?
It would be another story, if they'd have reacted like any "normal" parent of a missing child: "OMG, what has happened???!!!". But they didn't, because they know, know ...
It would be another story, if they'd have reacted like any "normal" parent of a missing child: "OMG, what has happened???!!!". But they didn't, because they know, know ...
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Re: Kate and Dogs - all sorts
But that is an even more strange thing.Châtelaine wrote:Peter, what else can they do, but dish the dogs?
At the same time they are saying the dogs are 'notoriously unreliable' they give explanations as to why they found what they did. Dirty nappies, rotting meat, nose bleeds, mosquitoes.
They McCant have it both ways.
Either the dogs were right, or they were not.
And if they were not, they have to account for their having alerted in all those places associated with the Mccanns AND TO NO OTHERS !
Re: Kate and Dogs - all sorts
I agree, Peter.
They do and they don't at the same time.
Should we wonder why? I don't think so.
They do and they don't at the same time.
Should we wonder why? I don't think so.
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Re: Kate and Dogs - all sorts
Arrested development? It always struck me as very childish - the type of excuses.Châtelaine wrote:I agree, Peter.
They do and they don't at the same time.
Should we wonder why? I don't think so.
'No, I didn't steal the biscuits, the tin fell off the table, the dog ate them...'
Curious how they also seem to be a family without any pets. Another thought occurs to me, how would they react if approached by a charity for dogs? I can just see someone with a collection tin on the doorstep of Rothley Towers asking for a contribution for our furry friends....
In Clarrie's explanation - I'm leaving that to you two!
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Re: Kate and Dogs - all sorts
Remember that Kate was surrounded by a pack of stray dogs (whilst she herself was running like a greyhound for Madeleine) and she was nipped at. I believe she soldiered on despite the terror.
So logically that means
Stray dogs = vicious mutts/pack animals that hang around waiting to bite folks who run like greyhounds
Cadaver/blood dogs = useless spaniels
Running like a greyhound = helpful to the search for Madeleine
There is some sort of delicious irony that Zapata is quoted. Apart from the fact the 'damned dogs' got it right I believe from my Spanish O'level that zapata means 'shoe'. Ooooh those running shoes.
ETA:
I'm editing to add that the irony continues when Clarrie supports a charity for stray dogs.
So logically that means
Stray dogs = vicious mutts/pack animals that hang around waiting to bite folks who run like greyhounds
Cadaver/blood dogs = useless spaniels
Running like a greyhound = helpful to the search for Madeleine
There is some sort of delicious irony that Zapata is quoted. Apart from the fact the 'damned dogs' got it right I believe from my Spanish O'level that zapata means 'shoe'. Ooooh those running shoes.
ETA:
I'm editing to add that the irony continues when Clarrie supports a charity for stray dogs.
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Re: Kate and Dogs - all sorts
OK, ok, I know, I just know this is VERY VERY tacky but the Thespian inside me cannot help exclaiming:
STRAY DOGS & ENGLISHMEN
GO OUT IN THE MIDDAY SUN
STRAY DOGS & ENGLISHMEN
GO OUT IN THE MIDDAY SUN
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Re: Kate and Dogs - all sorts
I was approached by a charity for dogs on Sunday at my local Asda. Four members of South Wales Police, plus dog, promoting "A Hero's Tail", by John Gaye, ... "over 90 fascinating, funny and insightful stories from the South Wales Police Dog Section". Available to purchase for £9.99.
"Partners in tackling crime", it says. I was thinking of sending a copy to Rothley Towers.
"Partners in tackling crime", it says. I was thinking of sending a copy to Rothley Towers.
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