Theory on motive

by badger5149 03.10.12 0:45

This case got my attention early on yet I was never aware of any discussion groups until now. When I saw the little girl I could not help but notice she had the same look with the wide set eyes that I have seen n so many children that were born to alcoholic mothers. The affliction is known as fetal alcohol syndrome. From what I understand it starts to manifest itself at age 4, the same age Madeliene disappeared. If the mother were a Dr, could the fear of having a child with FAS possibly drive her to get rid of the child to hide a possible problem with alcohol? I think it is worth looking at.

by maebee 03.10.12 0:54

badger5149 wrote:This case got my attention early on yet I was never aware of any discussion groups until now. When I saw the little girl I could not help but notice she had the same look with the wide set eyes that I have seen n so many children that were born to alcoholic mothers. The affliction is known as fetal alcohol syndrome. From what I understand it starts to manifest itself at age 4, the same age Madeliene disappeared. If the mother were a Dr, could the fear of having a child with FAS possibly drive her to get rid of the child to hide a possible problem with alcohol? I think it is worth looking at.

5 years since the disappeaance of Madeleine McCann and you were not aware of any discussion group?

by Da Troof 03.10.12 8:59

badger5149 wrote:This case got my attention early on yet I was never aware of any discussion groups until now. When I saw the little girl I could not help but notice she had the same look with the wide set eyes that I have seen n so many children that were born to alcoholic mothers. The affliction is known as fetal alcohol syndrome. From what I understand it starts to manifest itself at age 4, the same age Madeliene disappeared. If the mother were a Dr, could the fear of having a child with FAS possibly drive her to get rid of the child to hide a possible problem with alcohol? I think it is worth looking at.

An interesting suggestion. The lack of obvious motive has always pushed me towards the accidental death hypothesis. I'm off to read about FAS now.

by Guest 03.10.12 9:58

I have a hard time thinking that a woman, and a doctor, desperate for having children would drink [excessively] when she's finally pregnant ...

by david_uk 03.10.12 10:05

i dont think her fate was premeditated by anyone.

by Da Troof 03.10.12 10:21

I hope the pics appear when I post this, I've not done this before. The first is an FAS case, the second you all know.

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by **PeterMac** 03.10.12 10:34

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Symptoms

A baby with fetal alcohol syndrome may have the following symptoms:

Poor growth while the baby is in the womb and after birth
Decreased muscle tone and poor coordination
Delayed development and problems in three or more major areas: thinking, speech, movement, or social skills
Heart defects such as ventricular septal defect (VSD) or atrial septal defect (ASD)

Problems with the face, including:

Narrow, small eyes with large epicanthal folds
Small head
Small upper jaw
Smooth groove in upper lip
Smooth and thin upper lip

by badger5149 03.10.12 11:30

Thank you for posting the pics and the link. The resemblance as all can see is very strong.

by **tigger** 03.10.12 11:34

badger5149 wrote:Thank you for posting the pics and the link. The resemblance as all can see is very strong.

There is a photograph of a very small baby Madeleine and Kate with a glass of wine in her hand, standing in a garden. I deduced that she was probably not breastfeeding in that case.

I would think it is a contributing factor, your idea, but not the only one. Why otherwise start a Fund?

by badger5149 03.10.12 12:25

I called this in to one of the tip centers set up several years ago. I could tell by the sound of the operators voice she didn't even write it down.

by **PeterMac** 03.10.12 12:26

tigger wrote:
There is a photograph of a very small baby Madeleine and Kate with a glass of wine in her hand, standing in a garden. I deduced that she was probably not breastfeeding in that case.

Some nursing mothers discover that having a drink before feeding the baby puts an end to sleepless nights. Gripe water used to contain alcohol, and some [roably still do.

by david_uk 03.10.12 14:11

MM looked liked a perfectly normal girl . I call bunkem on this one personally, sorry.

by Guest 03.10.12 14:16

david_uk wrote:MM looked liked a perfectly normal girl . I call bunkem on this one personally, sorry.

I agree [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Da Troof 03.10.12 14:44

candyfloss wrote:
david_uk wrote:MM looked liked a perfectly normal girl . I call bunkem on this one personally, sorry.

I agree [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I am inclined to agree as well, but keeping an open mind. I have been reading a little about FAS. As with many conditions it presents as a wide spectrum from severe to mild. Clearly MMcC was not severely or even moderately affected (at least physically) , but it is possible she was at the mild end of the spectrum. Equally she might have been completely unaffected because K McC didn't drink while pregnant.

It only becomes relevant if you think the McC's planned to give M away or sell her, or if they deliberately planned to kill her. In these cases motive becomes quite important and FAS could be that motive. If you think that M died as the result of an accident that was then covered-up then FAS becomes irrelevant as a motive.

by **PeterMac** 03.10.12 15:34

Da Troof wrote: If you think that M died as the result of an accident that was then covered-up then FAS becomes irrelevant as a motive.

Agreed, but like the Turner's Syndrome that we earned so much about all those years ago, it presents with abnormalities of the circulatory system, in this case heart problems - in Turner's aortic aneurism, which might make sudden death slightly more possible from a comparatively minor trauma.
But in both cases it would also make it much more likely that the parents would then reveal that underlying condition and go for the sympathy vote on both counts.
Kate has tried that with the quotes about colic and screaming for 6 months, backed up by a relative.
There is still something strange about their not releasing the medical records.

by badger5149 03.10.12 16:02

When you have spent as much time around young children and mothers who have been affected by this syndrome as I have you learn to spot it very quickly. I am no proffessional but have worked around alcoholic women for many years. I have seen this countless times and know it when I see it. The child disappearing shortly before her 4th birthday throws up another flag as 4 yrs old is where it is usually diagnosed and starts to manifest itself.

by david_uk 03.10.12 16:10

[quote=It only becomes relevant if you think the McC's planned to give M away or sell her, or if they deliberately planned to kill her. In these cases motive becomes quite important and FAS could be that motive. If you think that M died as the result of an accident that was then covered-up then FAS becomes irrelevant as a motive.[/quote]

I do not think they planned to give her away or sell her or kill her, so this indeed irrelevant.

by jd 04.10.12 1:20

I don't think the cover up has anything to do with any syndrome, even though the mccans do clearly show signs of it

The cover up is purely business....Mark Warner/Ocean Club Symingtons, Licenses to operate in an area that was a land grab location at the time and had huge money making potential coming up (with a few people like Edmunds/Naylor/Weinburger thrown in)

by roy rovers 04.10.12 11:21

jd wrote:I don't think the cover up has anything to do with any syndrome, even though the mccans do clearly show signs of it

The cover up is purely business....Mark Warner/Ocean Club Symingtons, Licenses to operate in an area that was a land grab location at the time and had huge money making potential coming up (with a few people like Edmunds/Naylor/Weinburger thrown in)

Hi JD
Sounds interesting. I was thinking more in terms of masons, paedophiles, wanting to stay out of prison in terms of reasons for a cover up. Please expand if possible.

by badger5149 04.10.12 16:43

I was hoping to limit this thread to the viability of FAS as a possible motive based on the photographs of the child. If in fact the photo suggested a good possibility of the affliction being present the next step would be to examine medical records and whatever histoy of the mother that could be dug up about her behavior durring that period of time. At best this would only produce something that could be construed as a motive but in no way implicate guilt.

1. The photo of the child suggests a good possibility that FAS was present

2. The age the child dissappeared is also the age that FAS starts to manifest itelf in physical appearance.

3. Some of the posts I have read indicate a mothers refusal to turn over medical records.

4, A diagnosis of FAS could be damaging to the mothers carreer suggesting alcoholism.

Questions I have, is their anything unique about the town where she disappeared, such as easy access out of the country, or known criminal activity in that town making it easy to arrange for a child transfer?

Is that town a popular tourist destination or is their anything particular about that town that might attract tourists from England? Does it seem at all like an unusual destination for any reason?

by Guest 04.10.12 21:16

badger5149 wrote:When you have spent as much time around young children and mothers who have been affected by this syndrome as I have you learn to spot it very quickly. I am no proffessional but have worked around alcoholic women for many years. I have seen this countless times and know it when I see it. The child disappearing shortly before her 4th birthday throws up another flag as 4 yrs old is where it is usually diagnosed and starts to manifest itself.

The strange thing is that KH seems to rate the villages and towns the McCs used to live in before moving south,
by the number of pubs.
Not the landscape, not the history; just the number of pubs.
She must have been keenly aware of them.

Drinks is always around, whether in pictures or in description.
WTF mention the New Zealand brand of white wine. Who in their right mind would have remembered, or had the temerity to mention it?

How many bottles per person each night, at Tapas?

How is it possible that KH forgot how she got those awful bruises on May 3rd? (source: the book)
She forgot!

Booze all around, it seems to me. And maybe something worse.

by jd 05.10.12 1:12

WTF mention the New Zealand brand of white wine. Who in their right mind would have remembered, or had the temerity to mention it?

Apart from the obvious, in the final hour and most crucial hour in their lives that they saw Maddie.... they remember drinking New Zealand wine (white) rather than their daughter movements, who took the bath, who took the shower, who wore the bath robe, even though this all contradicts between statements....BUT they are consistent on drinking New Zealand wine all right!

I have never seen anything so clear and obvious. They are deflecting away any possible reference to their masters, the ones who are world famous for their ports and wines...The Symingtons. After all everything that that started on May 3rd derives from the Symingtons, and the very one thing that has never been scrutinised is the holiday complex that they own. One of their nannies might have something to do with why laughat

...especially in a land that was money making at the time and a company already in grave trouble with their nannies from other resorts. The only way out = Abduction

by **PeterMac** 05.10.12 7:52

I still can't see it as "motive".
I can see a possibility of contributory cause following accidental trauma, due to an underlying medical condition.
And the withholding of the medical records is worrying.

by **tigger** 05.10.12 11:49

PeterMac wrote:I still can't see it as "motive".
I can see a possibility of contributory cause following accidental trauma, due to an underlying medical condition.
And the withholding of the medical records is worrying.

The problem I have with the Symingtons as the main mover and shaker in the abduction is that
a) it bears all the hallmarks of someone who thinks he's clever and makes it too complicated
b) the Symingtons surely had it in their power to suppress the whole thing or have it happen on a trip to Burgau/Sagres/Zaival i.e. not on OC territory.

For me the whole scheme was the brainchild of one man, using a given situation to his own advantage. No doubt the Symingtons helped, they had to once it was in their interest to do so.

The real mystery about the mystery is that it's there at all. I could have organised a disappearance with more credibility than that any day. So that leads me back to the main players. Whatever diplomas and degrees they have it doesn't guarantee logical thinking.

by Da Troof 05.10.12 12:02

tigger wrote:
The problem I have with the Symingtons as the main mover and shaker in the abduction is that
a) it bears all the hallmarks of someone who thinks he's clever and makes it too complicated
b) the Symingtons surely had it in their power to suppress the whole thing or have it happen on a trip to Burgau/Sagres/Zaival i.e. not on OC territory.

For me the whole scheme was the brainchild of one man, using a given situation to his own advantage. No doubt the Symingtons helped, they had to once it was in their interest to do so.

The real mystery about the mystery is that it's there at all. I could have organised a disappearance with more credibility than that any day. So that leads me back to the main players. Whatever diplomas and degrees they have it doesn't guarantee logical thinking.

I agree. This whole "mystery" just looks like the work of someone who isn't half as clever as (s)he thinks they are. Though they do seem to have got away with it till now.

The most likely explanation (keep it simple) is : some sort of accidental death, probably with some element of negligence or culpability, followed by a plan to stage a hoax abduction to cover-up the negligence/culpability. As far as I can tell ALL the evidence supports this hypothesis. The only problem is that there isn't enough evidence to prove it.