Re: Maddie's clothes

by tuom 26.04.12 9:35

tigger wrote:
Spaniel wrote:
tigger wrote:Just saw that cut shoe of Amelie. Really weird, it just re-enforces my belief that it was all about the money. All the time, it also shows up in the book.

Either that or Kate didn't like spending money on the children, why mention Gap and Monsoon as if it was outrageously expensive. Harrods would be, those are mid price stores.
I believe she was fixing a date to those clothes. Not sure how to explain, but police can date by clothing.

I don't think so, Spaniel. But that is a very good idea. Could anyone find out when that particular little pink dress was in Monsoon/Gap's collection? My betting is that it was 2006. Because she does look quite young in the pool photo. I've never see a photograph with the broderie anglaise shorts. The tennis shorts are also quite large by the looks of it.

It's one of the few clothes that seem to fit her well. In April 2007 it was a bit early for the summer collection. That year we have her in the strappy dress from the ice cream photo and the skirting board one. Another dress that fitted, unlike the much too large red dress (kitchen photo).

Tigger I think the white shorts were supposedly on MMC the day the "last" picture was taken (pool Picture) , its in the book when KMC mentioned that MMC looked so lovely in her pink top and shorts , also the mention of Gap and Monsoon IIRC

by Liz Eagles 26.04.12 9:43

Spaniel wrote:
tigger wrote:Just saw that cut shoe of Amelie. Really weird, it just re-enforces my belief that it was all about the money. All the time, it also shows up in the book.

Either that or Kate didn't like spending money on the children, why mention Gap and Monsoon as if it was outrageously expensive. Harrods would be, those are mid price stores.
I believe she was fixing a date to those clothes. Not sure how to explain, but police can date by clothing.

Spaniel, I think you have a good point there. I have a friend in retail. I'm going to ask her if the bar codes on clothes show a batch number/or some other identifying number that is scanned in for stock purposes/relates to which store the garment was despatched to. There is also the fashion/trend/season element which can date a garment but it would be interesting to know if a barcode can identify a store through some stock/inventory scanning procedure.

by **tigger** 16.07.12 16:37

On the topic re the towel and the dogs the pink dress is mentioned.

The pink dress which she wore that same day allegedly.

The pink dress was mentioned particularly by Kate as being the reason the 'paedophile' element picked Maddie, or at least helped...
The pink dress is mentioned in the book but Kate said it's apricot coloured - well it was four years later but the photograph was there to help ...
The pink dress - in the book Kate goes into detail on the expense and the fact that it might have been a good idea to buy a cardigan too... but:
the photograph taken is clearly taken on a very hot day, going by the sunburn on Gerry's face and the general 'feel' of the photograph.

So the cardigan would not have been needed according to the photograph. Which imo was taken some 8 months earlier at least.
But a cardigan would have been good for Maddie to have on the third of May 07. A week which wasn't very warm at all, it even rained.
Different weather, different times and in recall, different colours.

The pink dress was headlined at least once as the reason why Maddie was selected by the abductor.

If we compare that dress with the red dress she wears in the 'birthday photos' it's evident that the red dress is far too big for her, but in those photographs it also looks as if the pink dress would be too small at that time.

by tuom 16.07.12 21:03

tigger wrote:On the topic re the towel and the dogs the pink dress is mentioned.

The pink dress which she wore that same day allegedly.

The pink dress was mentioned particularly by Kate as being the reason the 'paedophile' element picked Maddie, or at least helped...
The pink dress is mentioned in the book but Kate said it's apricot coloured - well it was four years later but the photograph was there to help ...
The pink dress - in the book Kate goes into detail on the expense and the fact that it might have been a good idea to buy a cardigan too... but:
the photograph taken is clearly taken on a very hot day, going by the sunburn on Gerry's face and the general 'feel' of the photograph.

So the cardigan would not have been needed according to the photograph. Which imo was taken some 8 months earlier at least.
But a cardigan would have been good for Maddie to have on the third of May 07. A week which wasn't very warm at all, it even rained.
Different weather, different times and in recall, different colours.

The pink dress was headlined at least once as the reason why Maddie was selected by the abductor.

If we compare that dress with the red dress she wears in the 'birthday photos' it's evident that the red dress is far too big for her, but in those photographs it also looks as if the pink dress would be too small at that time.

Tigger , I think the pink was a top , iirc she states how lovely MMC looked in her pink top and brodaire anglaise shorts , I do not have the book but if someone could check I think she described the clothes as those, she was admiring her and thought that perhaps come paedo was admiring her too , this would need to be checked though Maddie's clothes - Page 4 636506

she mentions Monsoon and Gap iirc

by **tigger** 16.07.12 21:20

@ tuom. I just looked at the photograph and it's definitely a little sundress. The shorts are just visible underneath .

This is from the book:
Some images are etched for all time on my brain. Madeleine that lunchtime is one of them. She was wearing an outfit I’d bought especially for her holiday: a peach-coloured smock top from Gap and some white broderie-anglaise shorts from Monsoon – a small extravagance, perhaps, but I’d pictured how lovely she would look in them and I’d been right. She was striding ahead of Fiona and me, swinging her bare arms to and fro. The weather was a little on the cool side and I remember thinking I should have brought a cardigan for her, although she seemed oblivious of the temperature, just happy and carefree. I was following her with my eyes, admiring her. I wonder now, the nausea rising in my throat, if someone else was doing the same.
unquote

It's strange that she calls it a smock top, doesn't look smocked to me and it's definitely pink, not apricot. It's Amelie who's wearing an apricot coloured top.

Note the temperature remark, the wrong colour and that top would have come to mid thigh like a short summer dress.
Also note the 'someone else' admiring Maddie.

by tuom 16.07.12 21:43

tigger wrote:@ tuom. I just looked at the photograph and it's definitely a little sundress. The shorts are just visible underneath .

This is from the book:
Some images are etched for all time on my brain. Madeleine that lunchtime is one of them. She was wearing an outfit I’d bought especially for her holiday: a peach-coloured smock top from Gap and some white broderie-anglaise shorts from Monsoon – a small extravagance, perhaps, but I’d pictured how lovely she would look in them and I’d been right. She was striding ahead of Fiona and me, swinging her bare arms to and fro. The weather was a little on the cool side and I remember thinking I should have brought a cardigan for her, although she seemed oblivious of the temperature, just happy and carefree. I was following her with my eyes, admiring her. I wonder now, the nausea rising in my throat, if someone else was doing the same.
unquote

It's strange that she calls it a smock top, doesn't look smocked to me and it's definitely pink, not apricot. It's Amelie who's wearing an apricot coloured top.

Note the temperature remark, the wrong colour and that top would have come to mid thigh like a short summer dress.
Also note the 'someone else' admiring Maddie.

Thanks ! Tigger , It's amazing that she could get the colour wrong , especially as that photograph is their last memory !! there was an opening there to check those clothes , but of course their financial files were not handed over and they had no credit cards !!! Maddie's clothes - Page 4 302873

by **tigger** 24.08.12 7:14

The shoe with the toe cut out is from the Panorama documentary 19/11/07.

Maddie's clothes - Page 4 Screen21

The next one is from GerryMcCannsblog.

Maddie's clothes - Page 4 Mbmc10

I'm just posting this, because we might well extend the clothes question to the twins.

As I am convinced the pool photo has Amelie pasted in at age 2 years 3 months (she looks exactly right for that) and Maddie, I am now convinced, is presented to us at age 3+ at least 7 months earlier than her age in PdL in 2007, the pink top/dress and broderie anglaise shorts cannot have been in the suitcase in 2007 . They are not used or re-used - the pink dress was never in PdL in 2007 imo.

Amelie's T shirt is very big as can be seen from the sleeves and the length. So there is a pink and an apricot t shirt (see the last photo topic) which more or less fit Amelie as a top and there is a very large one that can be used as a short dress. All bought at the same time I think. All from 2007.

It seems quite ridiculous to me to cut out the toes to make sandals for Amelie. The diary tells of the terrible trip with the twins to buy sandals. (The twins cried in front of the photographers and they had to stop halfway to calm them down).
Perhaps they gave up and just cut the toes off their shoes.

by **tigger** 24.08.12 9:29

As I recall - wasn't this part of a video where she was showing off her shoes? But I recall 'red shoes' not pink as I think these are.
This clip also shows the relative sizes of Maddie's foot and Amelie's. But the date of this video must be nearly a year before 3/5/07?

From the pink shoe in the post above, it is easy to see that Amelie could never have fitted or shared Maddie's sandals.

by Guest 24.08.12 9:52

The video is claimed to be from Christmas 2006 - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7794168.stm

Could the twins really have been almost two though? I think that the previous Christmas is more likely.

by **tigger** 24.08.12 14:24

Jean wrote:The video is claimed to be from Christmas 2006 - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7794168.stm

Could the twins really have been almost two though? I think that the previous Christmas is more likely.

Maddie could easily be 2 and 7 months there, could the twins be 11 months? I'd need a motherly advice on that. I think its' possible. It's certainly hard to imagine that Amelie would had advanced in four months to the pool picture. They certainly don't look as if they can walk.

by Guest 24.08.12 14:31

They were toddling so I think it's possible that they were nearly 11 months old rather than nearly 23 months. Now compare them to the Donegal photos a little more than 3 months later - I'm having trouble with that timeline!

by **tigger** 24.08.12 14:37

Jean wrote:They were toddling so I think it's possible that they were nearly 11 months old rather than nearly 23 months. Now compare them to the Donegal photos a little more than 3 months later - I'm having trouble with that timeline!

Oof! That's not possible! Do their parents have trouble remembering their birthdays? Perhaps we should help them.

by Guest 24.08.12 17:53

It seems for some unfathomable reason the McCanns wanted us to think that Madeleine was smaller and younger looking than she was. The tennis court and playground photos (if genuine and the jury's out on that one) are the ones that I feel give the most accurate impression of her appearance, so it is really strange that the poolside photo was given such prominence when it did not show an up-to-date image of Madeleine.

by Miraflores 24.08.12 18:18

I am inclined to believe the McCanns here. 11 months would be extremely young to be toddling properly. My daughter took her first few steps at 10 months but that was definitely considered to be advanced, and still mostly crawled for the next couple of months.

by Nina 24.08.12 18:58

tigger wrote:

As I recall - wasn't this part of a video where she was showing off her shoes? But I recall 'red shoes' not pink as I think these are.
This clip also shows the relative sizes of Maddie's foot and Amelie's. But the date of this video must be nearly a year before 3/5/07?

From the pink shoe in the post above, it is easy to see that Amelie could never have fitted or shared Maddie's sandals.

This photo shows Sean and Amelie with short baby fine hair, not the thick little boy hair of Sean nor the almost white in bunches hair of Amelie we see in May 2007 photos.
Yes Tigger it is part of the showing the pink shoes where Madeleine says pink, they certainly don't look new when you look at the soles, they have been well worn.

by jd 31.08.12 6:23

From Amaral's book....Interesting

SATURDAY, 5 MAY
"- McCanns and twins are in the Payne's apartment. we talk about going to the apartment to collect Madeleine's clothes, especially those she was wearing the afternoon of 3 May when taken from the creche, to see if there is any sign of violence. The British Ambassador is already meeting with the investigators. The decision is to NOT request Madeleine's clothes, to avoid a media rush, it is "premature" to consider the parents suspects.

- Suddenly the parents and friends must be treated with diplomacy, we are not allowed to question their behaviour. The strategy is that all theories are open. Somehow Jane's statement gains weight such that the first press communication is that this is considered an abduction. The media demands were enormous, something had to be said.

----------

On the 5th May clothing was sent to the OC laundry.....

Processos Vol III

Pages 560 -561

Witness statement

Vera María Mestre Fernandes Arez

Date: 2007/05/08

Occupation: Laundry Worker

Place of Work: Ocean Club

She has worked at the Ocean Club for six years with the function of cleaner in the rooms and apartments of Waterside Village and for the last 4 years her function is laundry worker. Her working hours are from 09.30 to 13.00 and from 14.30 to 18.00. The laundry, her place of work, is situated in the Ocean Club Gardens.

That as laundry worker her functions are to wash, dry all the linen from the rooms and apartments (sheets, towels and clothes from some of the clients) and from the Ocean Club restaurants (towels). All the laundry work takes place in the laundry where she works with three colleagues.

That she knows about the situation that occurred in the Ocean Club since 04/05/2007 at 09.30 as she was informed by a colleague from the laundry that a child had disappeared.

That she does not know the circumstances in which the girl disappeared only having heard about it in the press and from colleagues.

That she remembers that on Saturday 05/05/2007 having washed clothing belonging to the missing girl’s family and she checked that it was children’s and adult’s clothing. This service was carried out by her colleague Silvia Cravinho. That on the next day Sunday it was her colleague Bernadete Calado who went to deliver the clothing directly to the missing girl’s apartment.

That before that no clothing from the missing girl’s family had been washed and after that date there was no other washing of clothes from the family.

That she never had any contact with the family or with the missing girl as she never leaves the laundry except to have lunch.

That she did not notice anything strange on 03/05/2007. She did not notice anything strange on the days preceding this date and does not have any information about the disappearance.

No more is said. Reads, ratifies and signs.

"Last Saturday (05/05/2007) I received a bag of clothes brought in by Mark Warner staff, and was told expressly that these belonged to Madeleine's family – there was adult clothing (male and female) and children's clothing... ", states one of the laundry workers.

by **tigger** 31.08.12 8:05

JD wrote:
From Amaral's book:
SATURDAY, 5 MAY
"- McCanns and twins are in the Payne's apartment. we talk about going to the apartment to collect Madeleine's clothes, especially those she was wearing the afternoon of 3 May when taken from the creche, to see if there is any sign of violence. The British Ambassador is already meeting with the investigators. The decision is to NOT request Madeleine's clothes, to avoid a media rush, it is "premature" to consider the parents suspects.
unquote

At that time Amaral was not aware of the 'last photo' and the pink dress. Perhaps that's why it was 'overlooked' . It only surfaced in a photograph nearly three weeks later. Physically the pink dress never was in PdL in 2007 imo.
Amaral is clearly also not aware of the many changes of clothes that Maddie had that day - as documented by her mother.
The British ambassador was there midday on the 4th and again on the 5th. Exceptional treatment indeed.

by Cristobell 31.08.12 12:14

I've not seen this thread before, but am absolutely astounded that the mccanns sent clothes to be laundered on 5th May, and also that the police allowed this!

by Guest 31.08.12 12:47

Cristobell wrote: I've not seen this thread before, but am absolutely astounded that the mccanns sent clothes to be laundered on 5th May, and also that the police allowed this!

So was the police

by **tigger** 31.08.12 13:05

Portia wrote:
Cristobell wrote: I've not seen this thread before, but am absolutely astounded that the mccanns sent clothes to be laundered on 5th May, and also that the police allowed this!

So was the police

And only a few weeks later Cuddlecat was washed as well - police should have pounced on that but the press would have made mincemeat out of them for taking away the closest thing to Maddie from her adoring mother.....

Glad to see you're back Portia. Such classy avatars too!

by **tigger** 16.03.13 7:09

Thanks to Angelique in another topic:

Kate McCann talks to Oprah Winfrey 2 years after Maddie vanished News of the World

What Kate told Oprah 2 years after she vanished

By Sara Nuwar
26/04/2009

HAUNTED Kate McCann has confessed she visits missing daughter Madeleine's bedroom twice a day to chat to her.

[...]

She then described how her daughter's bedroom at their Leicestershire home is kept ready for her return and touchingly told how she goes in there at least twice a day "just to say hello to Madeleine".

[...] Kate, 41, and husband Gerry told how:

DAUGHTER Amelie now wears Madeleine's clothes.
unquote

and:

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id226.html

Clip By Sara Nuwar
26/04/2009

"And Kate told how Amelie has taken to borrowing some of Madeleine's clothes-although the oufits last worn by her in Portugal are kept tucked away and untouched."
unquote

by Guest 16.03.13 9:01

I copy my comment from the other thread:
"And Kate told how Amelie has taken to borrowing some of Madeleine's
clothes-although the outfits last worn by her in Portugal are kept tucked
away and untouched."

Very interesting. Perhaps an idea for SY to have a dog sniff on it?

by Guest 16.03.13 9:13

I'd wondered why the last outfits (pool side and tennis court) hadn't been put on show as often happens to jog people's memories when a child goes missing. It could be that they were being withheld by the police for some reason.

Now we hear from Kate herself that she took these clothes home. I don't know which is harder to swallow:

1) that the police would have allowed her to do so or
2) if they did, could Kate have resisted the urge to make a mint by selling the pictures to the media?

Pull the other leg! I don't believe that these clothes were ever in PDL, certainly not in 2007 anyway.

by rainbow-fairy 16.03.13 13:34

Jean wrote:I'd wondered why the last outfits (pool side and tennis court) hadn't been put on show as often happens to jog people's memories when a child goes missing. It could be that they were being withheld by the police for some reason.

Now we hear from Kate herself that she took these clothes home. I don't know which is harder to swallow:

1) that the police would have allowed her to do so or
2) if they did, could Kate have resisted the urge to make a mint by selling the pictures to the media?

Pull the other leg! I don't believe that these clothes were ever in PDL, certainly not in 2007 anyway.

Have to agree Jean, and it is Kates over-egged story of choosing them, ummming and ahhhing about the price - 'they were an extravagance but worth it' nails it for me yes

by **tigger** 08.06.14 8:50

There are a few topics on the clothes of the McCann family, it seems like nit- picking but has actually thrown up very strange facts such as the PJ being advised NOT to request Maddie's clothes.
Such as the fact that none of these alleged garments were used to help the dog handlers who worked the area for days over a large area. The search and rescue dogs could certainly have done with them.

As for clothes were NOT taken to Rothley, but re-used.

The pink hat - by Amelie on allegedly the last photo is imo a big give-away. Children are possesive, tennis photo has Maddie with pink hat, M allegedly loved pink. Would she take second best? I doubt it.

Amelie allegedly said: 'Maddie's sandals' and was able to wear them at a later date.

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