Could Gerry have been involved and hid it from Kate?

by Miss Pandora 08.06.14 17:48

I am new to this forum but not the case, which has always fascinated me since the early days of the disappearance.

Why? Because the evidence and statements do not add up. That is obvious for all to see. But then why continue to publicise the case if you know there is no hope? I can't get beyond this question. Something doesn't add up. My theory is that only one of the parents knows the truth. Perhaps they are shielding the other from further harm. A lie that once told can never be disputed.

Does anyone else feel this way? Gerry was the only parent away from the Tapas bar long enough to make this theory a possibility. Yet why would he cover up the death of a child her clearly loved and hide if from his wife and family and friends?

I hope it is the burglars or someone else who was never in the frame before but still believe the evidence does not add up

How long can anyone keep a big secret without spilling the beans? Burglars and paedofiles are not exactly loyal upright citizens and I would have expected an anonymous tip by now if they knew the truth. All IMO of course

by Justformaddie 08.06.14 17:58

If k didn't know, then the abduction scenario wouldn't have been her first words, she wouldn't have left the twins alone again to run to the table and she would've been out searching the like the rest of the community nah

IMO

by Miss Pandora 08.06.14 18:41

You're right of corse. Unless the abduction scenario was planted beforehand.
friends

by Justformaddie 08.06.14 18:49

Miss Pandora wrote:You're right of corse. Unless the abduction scenario was planted beforehand.

Funny that, didn't k speak to one of her friends that night during dinner about whether it was ok to leave the door unlocked? Unless k was planting the abduction scenario to her friend cause k knew what was about to happen? IMO shit happens

by Miss Pandora 08.06.14 20:09

Yes. Good point. Nothing about this case makes any sense otherwise we wouldn't be here debating it. It is just that 2 people do not make one, and assuming both parents know everything that occurred it is worth revisiting this in the light of what actually followed. I would very much like someone to be arrested and a court case held that requires the main witnesses to testify under oath. Don't think it will happen though but if it does perhaps loyalties will be divided. Must be a stron marriage to survive this type of pressure

by jca 08.06.14 20:15

He does appear very controlling and this might explain why only he answered the Portugese police but Kate couldn't/wouldn't.

by Watching 08.06.14 20:56

IIRC Pat Brown posted a blog with this theory - Mrs not knowing but Mr being involved. Will see if I can find it

by ultimaThule 08.06.14 21:29

jca wrote:He does appear very controlling and this might explain why only he answered the Portugese police but Kate couldn't/wouldn't.

An alternative explanation would be that as he didn't cause Madeleine's death he had nothing to fear from answering questions. On the other hand it could simply be that, regardless of whatever legal or other opinion he receives to the contrary, the wee one believes that he's cleverer than anyone else and will always act according to what he thinks his best for him.

by bristow 09.06.14 5:29

Miss Pandora wrote:I am new to this forum but not the case, which has always fascinated me since the early days of the disappearance.

Why? Because the evidence and statements do not add up. That is obvious for all to see. But then why continue to publicise the case if you know there is no hope? I can't get beyond this question. Something doesn't add up. My theory is that only one of the parents knows the truth. Perhaps they are shielding the other from further harm. A lie that once told can never be disputed.

Does anyone else feel this way? Gerry was the only parent away from the Tapas bar long enough to make this theory a possibility. Yet why would he cover up the death of a child her clearly loved and hide if from his wife and family and friends?

I hope it is the burglars or someone else who was never in the frame before but still believe the evidence does not add up

How long can anyone keep a big secret without spilling the beans? Burglars and paedofiles are not exactly loyal upright citizens and I would have expected an anonymous tip by now if they knew the truth. All IMO of course

It has crossed my mind on many occasion that Gerry could be the 'one' and has hidden it from Kate. Then I think of the dog alerts to Kates trousers but they could have been accidently contaminated by Gerry. Gerrys buttoned trousers always make me suspicious too.

by ChippyM 09.06.14 9:29

I have thought it may not be as black and white as Kate being fooled by Gerry that it was an abduction. What if one parent was made to feel a death was their fault entirely...then they might go along with the plan of the other parent to cover-up the death. So they would be complicit in a staged abuduction but not 100% aware of the true circumstances of the death.

The only reason I have ever considered this theory is the Gaspar statement. If that statement is accurate then you start questioning the likelyhood of one parent being involved in abuse whilst the other one doesn't know. If one parent wanted to cover up abuse they might do everything possible to convince their partner that they were just covering up an accident. Of course it is also possible that some parents willingly cover up abuse by partners.

by suzyjohnson 09.06.14 14:18

I too have considered that GM might know and that KM might not, but if Eddie and Keela's findings are correct then a fatal accident must have occurred before the couple left for the tapas restaurant at 8.30 pm, and, for that reason, KM must know

by ultimaThule 09.06.14 14:33

suzyjohnson wrote:I too have considered that GM might know and that KM might not, but if Eddie and Keela's findings are correct then a fatal accident must have occurred before the couple left for the tapas restaurant at 8.30 pm, and, for that reason, KM must know

The EVRD dog Keela alerted to the presence of minute particles of blood behind the sofa while the late Eddie alerted to the presence of cadaverine behind the sofa and by or in the bedroom wardrobe.

Eddie's alerts indicated that a dead body was present in two locations in 5A, but it cannot be assumed from the findings of the EVRD dogs that death occurred in the apartment nor is there any reason to assume that the death was accidental.

by tiny 09.06.14 14:36

I say they BOTH know, esp KATE, dogs dont lie,

by suzyjohnson 09.06.14 14:48

ultimaThule wrote:
suzyjohnson wrote:I too have considered that GM might know and that KM might not, but if Eddie and Keela's findings are correct then a fatal accident must have occurred before the couple left for the tapas restaurant at 8.30 pm, and, for that reason, KM must know

The EVRD dog Keela alerted to the presence of minute particles of blood behind the sofa while the late Eddie alerted to the presence of cadaverine behind the sofa and by or in the bedroom wardrobe.

Eddie's alerts indicated that a dead body was present in two locations in 5A, but it cannot be assumed from the findings of the EVRD dogs that death occurred in the apartment nor is there any reason to assume that the death was accidental.

Eddie alerted to the presence of a dead body within apartment 5A, there was no known death that occurred in 5A either prior to the McCann'e renting the apartment or after MM's disappearance.

IF the alert related to MM's body then a fatality (accident or otherwise) must have occurred at least an hour and a half before KM's 10 pm check, so, prior to 8.30 pm.

by rainbow-fairy 09.06.14 18:30

ultimaThule wrote:
jca wrote:He does appear very controlling and this might explain why only he answered the Portugese police but Kate couldn't/wouldn't.

An alternative explanation would be that as he didn't cause Madeleine's death he had nothing to fear from answering questions. On the other hand it could simply be that, regardless of whatever legal or other opinion he receives to the contrary, the wee one believes that he's cleverer than anyone else and will always act according to what he thinks his best for him.

Absolutely agree with that ultimaThule.

Imo, only my opinion, Kate is by far the more 'sinister'. I would be amazed if she is as controlled by Gerry as people seem to think.

Regards the OP, totally not imv. They both know, and knew from the start - whenever and whatever caused 'the start'

by Guest 09.06.14 19:21

ultimaThule wrote:
suzyjohnson wrote:I too have considered that GM might know and that KM might not, but if Eddie and Keela's findings are correct then a fatal accident must have occurred before the couple left for the tapas restaurant at 8.30 pm, and, for that reason, KM must know

The EVRD dog Keela alerted to the presence of minute particles of blood behind the sofa while the late Eddie alerted to the presence of cadaverine behind the sofa and by or in the bedroom wardrobe.

Eddie's alerts indicated that a dead body was present in two locations in 5A, but it cannot be assumed from the findings of the EVRD dogs that death occurred in the apartment nor is there any reason to assume that the death was accidental.

Does anyone on here know if, in theory, mere cadaver matter / cadaver blood in the apartment, however deposited there, would give the same positive responses as if there had been a full cadaver there?

by Justformaddie 09.06.14 19:39

MILLIE wrote:
ultimaThule wrote:
suzyjohnson wrote:I too have considered that GM might know and that KM might not, but if Eddie and Keela's findings are correct then a fatal accident must have occurred before the couple left for the tapas restaurant at 8.30 pm, and, for that reason, KM must know

The EVRD dog Keela alerted to the presence of minute particles of blood behind the sofa while the late Eddie alerted to the presence of cadaverine behind the sofa and by or in the bedroom wardrobe.

Eddie's alerts indicated that a dead body was present in two locations in 5A, but it cannot be assumed from the findings of the EVRD dogs that death occurred in the apartment nor is there any reason to assume that the death was accidental.
Does anyone on here know if, in theory, mere cadaver matter / cadaver blood in the apartment, however deposited there, would give the same positive responses as if there had been a full cadaver there?

What do you mean? I'm tired at the moment!

by Guest 09.06.14 19:44

Justformaddie wrote:
MILLIE wrote:
ultimaThule wrote:
suzyjohnson wrote:I too have considered that GM might know and that KM might not, but if Eddie and Keela's findings are correct then a fatal accident must have occurred before the couple left for the tapas restaurant at 8.30 pm, and, for that reason, KM must know

The EVRD dog Keela alerted to the presence of minute particles of blood behind the sofa while the late Eddie alerted to the presence of cadaverine behind the sofa and by or in the bedroom wardrobe.

Eddie's alerts indicated that a dead body was present in two locations in 5A, but it cannot be assumed from the findings of the EVRD dogs that death occurred in the apartment nor is there any reason to assume that the death was accidental.
Does anyone on here know if, in theory, mere cadaver matter / cadaver blood in the apartment, however deposited there, would give the same positive responses as if there had been a full cadaver there?
What do you mean? I'm tired at the moment!

I think what I am trying to explore is whether or not cadaver material rather than an actual cadaver could have accounted for the response of cadaver dogs and forensic positives. Ie was the actual deceased body ever present in the apartment - could Madeleine have died elsewhere and the cadaver matter been put there for whatever reason.

by Justformaddie 09.06.14 19:49

As in (sorry) dead skin & blood or parts?

by Guest 09.06.14 19:51

Justformaddie wrote:As in (sorry) dead skin & blood or parts?

I know it is not a nice thought but yes.

by ultimaThule 09.06.14 19:51

The EVRD dog Keela alerted to minute particles of blood behind the sofa but, insofar as what is known of the results of analysis of these particles, this finding can only be said to be blood which came from a human body, or bodies, when either alive or from seepage from an open wound immediately after death Millie

The late Eddie (RIP) alerted to the odour of cadverine behind the sofa and in or by the bedroom wardrobe which indicates that at some point in time a dead body, or a significant part thereof, was present in those two locations as it is improbable that cadaverine could be transferred by any other means.

Neither of the dogs' findings can be seen as indication that death occurred in the apartment.

by MaybeMaybenot 09.06.14 19:53

"We want the twins, as much as is reasonably possible, to live an ordinary life in their home country," he said, "and we want to consider the events of the last few days which have been so deeply disturbing."

A police escort met the McCanns on the apron at East Midlands airport and took them to their home in Rothley, Leicestershire.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

That Police escort was in fact Special Branch....Big difference. Collected on the airport apron too....

I think Gerry quickly realised a cover up was about to begin. It must be of huge significance.
So we have Government throw ins...MI5, Special Branch and some think this is no cover up ???

by Guest 09.06.14 19:55

ultimaThule wrote:The EVRD dog Keela alerted to minute particles of blood behind the sofa but, insofar as what is known of the results of analysis of these particles, this finding can only be said to be blood which came from a human body, or bodies, when either alive or from seepage from an open wound immediately after death Millie

The late Eddie (RIP) alerted to the odour of cadverine behind the sofa and in or by the bedroom wardrobe which indicates that at some point in time a dead body, or a significant part thereof, was present in those two locations as it is improbable that cadaverine could be transferred by any other means.

Neither of the dogs' findings can be seen as indication that death occurred in the apartment.

Thank you for that, Ultima. I had wondered. thumbsup

by canada12 09.06.14 19:58

MaybeMaybenot wrote:"We want the twins, as much as is reasonably possible, to live an ordinary life in their home country," he said, "and we want to consider the events of the last few days which have been so deeply disturbing."

A police escort met the McCanns on the apron at East Midlands airport and took them to their home in Rothley, Leicestershire.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

That Police escort was in fact Special Branch....Big difference. Collected on the airport apron too....

I think Gerry quickly realised a cover up was about to begin. It must be of huge significance.
So we have Government throw ins...MI5, Special Branch and some think this is no cover up ???

Special Branch also does VIP escorting. Is it possible that CM merely pulled in a few favours from his friends in high places to make the McCanns look much more important than they actually were?

by MaybeMaybenot 09.06.14 20:01

canada12 wrote:
MaybeMaybenot wrote:"We want the twins, as much as is reasonably possible, to live an ordinary life in their home country," he said, "and we want to consider the events of the last few days which have been so deeply disturbing."

A police escort met the McCanns on the apron at East Midlands airport and took them to their home in Rothley, Leicestershire.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

That Police escort was in fact Special Branch....Big difference. Collected on the airport apron too....

I think Gerry quickly realised a cover up was about to begin. It must be of huge significance.
So we have Government throw ins...MI5, Special Branch and some think this is no cover up ???

Special Branch also does VIP escorting. Is it possible that CM merely pulled in a few favours from his friends in high places to make the McCanns look much more important than they actually were?