Do you believe Madeleine and siblings were left alone?

Willo wrote:The reason the restaurant was picked was to give all the T9's an alibi. They were all seen by witnesses outside the group thus all could be counted out of the list of potential 'abductors'. Also giving the T9's a little more breathing space to tidy up after themselves and try to hone their plan as best they could while the authorities chased a fictitious abductor.

I think Madeleine was already dead and whether she died by accident or abuse her body contained evidence enough to possibly uncover something quite horrid that would seem to have far reaching consequences for many of the McCann supporters that have emerged from the woodwork to offer support (financial and otherwise) that at times seems way over the top.

Moa wrote:

Stella wrote:Matt Oldfield: "Well Kate went and did the next check and think because we'd, I didn't, we didn't all go at that point, just Kate went and, erm, and then came running back saying, she's gone, Gerry Madeleine's gone, and she was sort of borderline hysterical, as you'd expect, and then there was just a blur as everybody then just ran off from the table. Erm, then everybody I think left the table, I mean, I just remember being behind Dave as he was, and Gerry, as they were running, erm, Russell I think (inaudible) a bit behind and so we all ran. If you ask whether we went, you know, into the apartment and I'm almost a hundred percent sure we didn't go to the apartment, we were, because it was just so awful, so Gerry and Kate and maybe Dave, I'm not sure, but went sort of to the bottom of the steps and they sort of went in, erm, and as soon as they sort of said, you know, she's gone and everything, all hell broke loose, we went round to check firstly on G***e to make sure she was okay and we dropped Rachael up there, telling her that she wasn't to move, Jane came out of the apartment, did she come out of the apartment at that point or was it later in the evening, I can't remember, but I remember seeing them".

I'm thinking it was Rachel's turn to relieve Jane. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

This line stood out to me :
we didn't go to the apartment, we were, because it was just so awful

Well if one of my friends children got missing, first thing I would do was look in the appartment. At that time they didnt know anything else (according to them ) but that she was gone..She could just have wondered off alone or something.. What was so awful that they couldnt get them self to go into the apartment?
I would think thats more of a reaction if you KNOW there is a terrible sight in there, like a dead body or something..

So what was so awful 5 minutes after the alarm was raised ? So awful that they at that point didnt want to enter the appartment ? Makes absolutly no sence to me...unless they knew something awful was to be found in there..

rainbow-fairy wrote:

Moa wrote:

Stella wrote:Matt Oldfield: "Well Kate went and did the next check and think because we'd, I didn't, we didn't all go at that point, just Kate went and, erm, and then came running back saying, she's gone, Gerry Madeleine's gone, and she was sort of borderline hysterical, as you'd expect, and then there was just a blur as everybody then just ran off from the table. Erm, then everybody I think left the table, I mean, I just remember being behind Dave as he was, and Gerry, as they were running, erm, Russell I think (inaudible) a bit behind and so we all ran. If you ask whether we went, you know, into the apartment and I'm almost a hundred percent sure we didn't go to the apartment, we were, because it was just so awful, so Gerry and Kate and maybe Dave, I'm not sure, but went sort of to the bottom of the steps and they sort of went in, erm, and as soon as they sort of said, you know, she's gone and everything, all hell broke loose, we went round to check firstly on G***e to make sure she was okay and we dropped Rachael up there, telling her that she wasn't to move, Jane came out of the apartment, did she come out of the apartment at that point or was it later in the evening, I can't remember, but I remember seeing them".

I'm thinking it was Rachel's turn to relieve Jane. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

This line stood out to me :
we didn't go to the apartment, we were, because it was just so awful

Well if one of my friends children got missing, first thing I would do was look in the appartment. At that time they didnt know anything else (according to them ) but that she was gone..She could just have wondered off alone or something.. What was so awful that they couldnt get them self to go into the apartment?
I would think thats more of a reaction if you KNOW there is a terrible sight in there, like a dead body or something..

So what was so awful 5 minutes after the alarm was raised ? So awful that they at that point didnt want to enter the appartment ? Makes absolutly no sence to me...unless they knew something awful was to be found in there..

Once again, Moa, the same line jumped up at me too... What on earth is awful about an 'empty' apartment? Sad and shocking if she really had been abducted, but too awful too go in?
No, that I would associate with a nasty bloody scene reminiscent of a horror movie, not an empty bed...

Moa wrote:

rainbow-fairy wrote:

Moa wrote:

Stella wrote:Matt Oldfield: "Well Kate went and did the next check and think because we'd, I didn't, we didn't all go at that point, just Kate went and, erm, and then came running back saying, she's gone, Gerry Madeleine's gone, and she was sort of borderline hysterical, as you'd expect, and then there was just a blur as everybody then just ran off from the table. Erm, then everybody I think left the table, I mean, I just remember being behind Dave as he was, and Gerry, as they were running, erm, Russell I think (inaudible) a bit behind and so we all ran. If you ask whether we went, you know, into the apartment and I'm almost a hundred percent sure we didn't go to the apartment, we were, because it was just so awful, so Gerry and Kate and maybe Dave, I'm not sure, but went sort of to the bottom of the steps and they sort of went in, erm, and as soon as they sort of said, you know, she's gone and everything, all hell broke loose, we went round to check firstly on G***e to make sure she was okay and we dropped Rachael up there, telling her that she wasn't to move, Jane came out of the apartment, did she come out of the apartment at that point or was it later in the evening, I can't remember, but I remember seeing them".

I'm thinking it was Rachel's turn to relieve Jane. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

This line stood out to me :
we didn't go to the apartment, we were, because it was just so awful

Well if one of my friends children got missing, first thing I would do was look in the appartment. At that time they didnt know anything else (according to them ) but that she was gone..She could just have wondered off alone or something.. What was so awful that they couldnt get them self to go into the apartment?
I would think thats more of a reaction if you KNOW there is a terrible sight in there, like a dead body or something..

So what was so awful 5 minutes after the alarm was raised ? So awful that they at that point didnt want to enter the appartment ? Makes absolutly no sence to me...unless they knew something awful was to be found in there..

Once again, Moa, the same line jumped up at me too... What on earth is awful about an 'empty' apartment? Sad and shocking if she really had been abducted, but too awful too go in?
No, that I would associate with a nasty bloody scene reminiscent of a horror movie, not an empty bed...

Can you imagine doctors , grownup men that can't enter the apartment because it is so awful.. yet there are two children under 2 years old sleeping there alone...

aiyoyo wrote:

rainbow-fairy wrote:I do not believe that the siblings were left alone either. However, I don't believe its because the parents were 'ultra loving and caring' - the whole scenario doesn't work for me.
If they were not abandoned, ie had adult 'supervision' - Madeleine could NOT have been abducted. If she was not abducted, that leaves 'something' happening to her. Some have said 'over-sedation'. Is sedation the actions of a loving, caring parent - I think not. And if they were not left alone, would sedation be needed, anyway?
What I believe we are dealing with here, is the 'something' that happened being so BAD that admitting to neglect and staging an abduction was preferable. Actions of loving caring parents? No.
What could be so bad that it was not feasible to just call an ambulance? Whatever the answer, it isn't caused by the actions of loving caring parents.

I am leaning strongly towards the reason being linked to why it was only men that left the table for at least fifteen minutes or so at a time. Were these 'new men' or something altogether different entirely?
Perhaps we should ask Drs Gaspar...
This I'm sure is why the staged abduction was so important. I can think of very few other reasons why you could not surrender a child's body - couldn't have been an accident. That wouldn't need covering up.
Just my opinion of course, but the more I read the more I'm certain of it...

I beg to differ.
Why made Thursday exceptional and why choose a public restaurant with plenty witnesses to recount their movements? It just does not make sense.
In that grime situation with a death on their hands, only cowardice men would leave such a daunting and dreadful task to the women.
I suspect also the women, being weaker, were not up to going up and down doing pretendy checks knowing what they knew.
I don't entertain anything sinister in the men doing the checks. It was just charade to create an alibi for the abduction.

anil39200 wrote:

Willo wrote:The reason the restaurant was picked was to give all the T9's an alibi. They were all seen by witnesses outside the group thus all could be counted out of the list of potential 'abductors'. Also giving the T9's a little more breathing space to tidy up after themselves and try to hone their plan as best they could while the authorities chased a fictitious abductor.

I think Madeleine was already dead and whether she died by accident or abuse her body contained evidence enough to possibly uncover something quite horrid that would seem to have far reaching consequences for many of the McCann supporters that have emerged from the woodwork to offer support (financial and otherwise) that at times seems way over the top.

I am with you there.

Stella wrote:

anil39200 wrote:

Willo wrote:The reason the restaurant was picked was to give all the T9's an alibi. They were all seen by witnesses outside the group thus all could be counted out of the list of potential 'abductors'. Also giving the T9's a little more breathing space to tidy up after themselves and try to hone their plan as best they could while the authorities chased a fictitious abductor.

I think Madeleine was already dead and whether she died by accident or abuse her body contained evidence enough to possibly uncover something quite horrid that would seem to have far reaching consequences for many of the McCann supporters that have emerged from the woodwork to offer support (financial and otherwise) that at times seems way over the top.

I am with you there.

Me too, especially the last paragraph.

Stella wrote:

anil39200 wrote:

Willo wrote:The reason the restaurant was picked was to give all the T9's an alibi. They were all seen by witnesses outside the group thus all could be counted out of the list of potential 'abductors'. Also giving the T9's a little more breathing space to tidy up after themselves and try to hone their plan as best they could while the authorities chased a fictitious abductor.

I think Madeleine was already dead and whether she died by accident or abuse her body contained evidence enough to possibly uncover something quite horrid that would seem to have far reaching consequences for many of the McCann supporters that have emerged from the woodwork to offer support (financial and otherwise) that at times seems way over the top.

I am with you there.

Me too, especially the last paragraph.

rainbow-fairy wrote:

Stella wrote:

anil39200 wrote:

Willo wrote:The reason the restaurant was picked was to give all the T9's an alibi. They were all seen by witnesses outside the group thus all could be counted out of the list of potential 'abductors'. Also giving the T9's a little more breathing space to tidy up after themselves and try to hone their plan as best they could while the authorities chased a fictitious abductor.

I think Madeleine was already dead and whether she died by accident or abuse her body contained evidence enough to possibly uncover something quite horrid that would seem to have far reaching consequences for many of the McCann supporters that have emerged from the woodwork to offer support (financial and otherwise) that at times seems way over the top.

I am with you there.

Me too, especially the last paragraph.

And me!
The way I see it, even IF 'cause of death' WAS 'accident', the body obviously could not be allowed to be seen by the authorities therefore being the reason for the monumental cover-up. I'm 99.9% certain in my own mind of the reason too.

HiDeHo wrote:One comment from Gerry shortly after 4.25 in Part 2 of 2 in the following videos is, in my opinion, very odd.

Sandra Felguieras mentioned the 15 minute checks....Gerry was very quick to correct her and say it was 30 minutes!

One would think they were happy to have people believing they were vigilant in their checks and not negligent...but it was more important to correct her so there appeared to be more opportunity of an 'abduction' at the expense of being neglectful...

Without 'neglect' there could not have been an abduction!