Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Guest 24.08.11 16:36

pauline wrote:
Stewie wrote:
I don't have KM's book as don't want to pay for it...but if anyone has access to it would be good to see what she says happened on this day..

Stewie, would your principles permit you to borrow from the local library. It is really interesting reading it when you have done your own research. I got someone to pay for it who believed the McCanns'!

When you return the book to the library you could put neatly inside (or maybe write in somewhere) a list of websites such as this one where the next reader could get more information.

Library is a good idea - like the idea of trying to get the readers borrowing it to "see the light". Whilst I'm not allowed to buy "The Truth of the Lie" there is no way I'm going to be buying their book.... Actually, the only person left around me who still believed the McCanns was my mum.. so I got Faked Abduction book for her and she's no longer a believer... now she rings me up with loads of questions and theories of her own.. big grin

by Gillyspot 24.08.11 18:47

Stewie wrote:
pauline wrote:
Stewie wrote:
I don't have KM's book as don't want to pay for it...but if anyone has access to it would be good to see what she says happened on this day..

Stewie, would your principles permit you to borrow from the local library. It is really interesting reading it when you have done your own research. I got someone to pay for it who believed the McCanns'!

When you return the book to the library you could put neatly inside (or maybe write in somewhere) a list of websites such as this one where the next reader could get more information.

Library is a good idea - like the idea of trying to get the readers borrowing it to "see the light". Whilst I'm not allowed to buy "The Truth of the Lie" there is no way I'm going to be buying their book.... Actually, the only person left around me who still believed the McCanns was my mum.. so I got Faked Abduction book for her and she's no longer a believer... now she rings me up with loads of questions and theories of her own..

No one I know believes the McCanns. Amazingly (or not) the reason most say is that the McCanns have been banging on to much about the "Fund" and they are sick of McCanns getting the begging bowl out constantly. "Why do they need all this money" & What do they spend it on" are frequent refrains.

I regret buying "Madeleine" as it may be causing this Carter Ruck. But at least like PeterMac I bought the Kindle version which means I can do word searches whenever I want.

by Guest 25.08.11 12:36

Updated chart using info supplied by Kiko's tweets.

GM
28	29	30	1	2	3
				8.07
				8.07
				9.10
				9.13
				9.18
	10.13			10.35
				10.47
				12.35	12.24
				13.46
				13.48
				13.59
				15.49
				15.50
				17.49
				19.49
				20.14
					23.14
					23.17
					23.40
					23.52
red / VM
black / calls
	no calls
	same as Kate
	same as Kate but Gerry deletes it on his phone
	alarm is raised
	voicemails from unknown source
	only call taken by Gerry after 88 hours of taking no calls
	Gerry saves this voicemail, then turns off his phone

by Guest 25.08.11 13:10

Why take 12 voicemails on the 2nd from the same person, over a 6 hour period and never speaking?

If it was about work just as Kate suggests, would it not be more efficient to get it all over and done with in just one conversation? After all, you are on holiday not at work !!!

by Guest 25.08.11 14:37

Updated chart for Kate, using info supplied by McCannFiles [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Kate
28	29	30	1	2	3
sat	sun	mon	tue	wed	thur
				7.36
				7.36
				7.50
					8.23
					8.24
				8.50
				8.53
			10.16
			11.56	11.21
			12.17
					12.31
					13.34
14.30
			19.45
			20.31
			20.33
			20.35
			20.37

			22.16
			22.23
			22.23
			22.24
			22.25
			22.27
					23.14
					23.17
red / VM
black / calls
	no calls
	same as Gerry
	alarm is raised
	when signal is first picked up
	call received from Swansea
	call received from Gerry
	deleted from her phone

Please note the call received from Swansea, was allegedly a wrong number.

by Guest 25.08.11 14:45

it also appears that there were a number of portuguese phones being used on that holiday... DP statement indicates that by late evening on the friday they had portuguese phones in their hands sorted out by a portuguese friend of FP's brother in law (SA)...so maybe there were other phones available earlier than the friday, which could acount for the huge gaps in their uk mobile records.... can't believe that portuguese phones needed because they didn't have a charger!
Portuguese mobiles also mentioned in JT and FP's rogatory interviews....

would love to see the call records for these portuguese mobiles!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

1485 "The same yeah. Okay, we'll move on, this is a small number and it, it is ***."
Reply "So that's a local number?"

1485 "I think..."
01:26:10 Reply "Yeah, I mean it may well have been SA gave us a contact of someone that was a friend of the family in Portugal who could get us mobile phones because Kate and Gerry hadn't got any contact, way of contacting, their batteries were running out or something like that so SAhad basically said there's, these people that we know there and that could have been it."
1485 "Or, because then there were two text messages sent about half past, about ten o' clock on the Friday evening to that number."

Reply "Oh to that number, well that wouldn't make sense."
1485 "No."
Reply "Err..."

1485 "From that number to your number."
Reply "Oh, it could have been then, if they text me saying oh I hope everything's alright, you've got the phones and everything, that's the only thing."

[url= [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The importance of phone calls

The extensive analysis that is carried out on all telephone communications that were made by the nine English people during their entire stay in Portugal is an important detail of the official investigation into Maddie's disappearance.

It is Jane Tanner who reveals to the English police that David and Fiona Payne used a Portuguese mobile phone at the time when Madeleine disappeared, a situation that was not even unique given the fact that Kate and Gerry McCann also had phones with a Portuguese chip at their disposal, some of which were never known to the PJ.

When questioned in England about her own phone communications, Jane Tanner identifies all of the correspondents as being friends or relatives, yet fails to identify the owner of a Portuguese mobile phone whom she calls and sends text messages after Maddie's disappearance. The question would never be clarified.

by Guest 25.08.11 14:54

I would lay a bet they were given throw away phones. i.e., the ones you buy as a 'pay as you go' and that a different simcard was probably used every day.

People who do not wish to be traced or have their calls monitored, would do just this.[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Guest 25.08.11 15:16

Stella wrote:I would lay a bet they were given throw away phones. i.e., the ones you buy as a 'pay as you go' and that a different simcard was probably used every day.

People who do not wish to be traced or have their calls monitored, would do just this.[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I won't bet you on that one as I'm sure I'd lose..

And when on holiday and your phone battery runs out , who doesn't go and buy pay-as-you-go phones ?.... Or maybe a friend-of-Murdoch had warned them about phone hacking...

by Guest 25.08.11 16:26

The texts to GMc on 2nd May look as if they are coming from the same number but that is because they are from the Vodaphone service which indicates when a voicemail has been left ( they may of course be all coming from the same number, but we can`t assume that).

The 10.13 call to GMc on 29th is a text message. Kiko and I have found the number this week on the PJ sheets and may try and find its owner as we have done with other numbers.

The files say that there are no calls for GMc for 1 May so I think we may be on safe ground to assume that this is correct and that it`s not a case of information being withheld by PJ.

Thank you Stella for all this work in tabulating the calls. It shows clearly the lack of activity at the start of the week and then the concentration of calls/texts/messages on 1st and 2nd.

Unfortunately there are no records relating to the calls/texts made and/or received by KMc on the evening of 1 May so we are in the dark about the relevant numbers.

K

by Guest 26.08.11 9:32

Thank you for the confirmation, both of you. xx [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Guest 26.08.11 9:44

Me wrote:
It would be nice to see if call times and locations match up with entries in the creche records and the movements they claimed they made in their statements.

There is one very interesting thing that Kiko pointed out to us.

It is usually Gerry that picks Madeleine up at lunchtime from the morning creche. But on the 3rd at 12.24, Gerry was busy taking the only actual call he had that week. So Kate was tasked with collecting Madeleine.

Why did this call prevent Gerry from going to the creche that day?

	sun	mon	tue	wed	thur
Lobsters	29	30	1	2	3

AM in	9.45	9.30	9.30	9.20	9.10
AM out	12.15	12.10	12.20	12.30	12.25
PM in	2.45	3.15	2.30	2.45	2.50
PM out	5.30	3.30		5.30	5.30

GM
28	29	30	1	2	3
				8.07
				8.07
				9.10
				9.13
				9.18
	10.13			10.35
				10.47
				12.35	12.24
				13.46
				13.48
				13.59
				15.49
				15.50
				17.49
				19.49
				20.14
					23.14
					23.17
					23.40
					23.52
10.13	text message
red / VM
black / calls
	no calls
	same as Kate
	same as Kate but Gerry deletes it on his phone
	alarm is raised
	voicemails from unknown source
	only call after 88 hours of taking no calls
	Gerry saves this voicemail, then turns off his phone

by Guest 27.08.11 9:41

One more thing on that 12.24 incoming phone call Gerry took on the 3rd. If you were thinking that Kate went to get Madeleine only because Gerry was busy on the phone, you are wrong. According to the creche records, Madeleine was collected at 12.25, that's 60 seconds later. Which means that the decision for Kate to pick up Madeleine instead of the ususal Gerry, was made long before Gerry managed to take that incoming call.

How did Gerry come to know that he was going to receive a call at that exact time, having had his phone switched off for more than 24 hours?

by Newintown 27.08.11 14:59

Stella wrote:One more thing on that 12.24 incoming phone call Gerry took on the 3rd. If you were thinking that Kate went to get Madeleine only because Gerry was busy on the phone, you are wrong. According to the creche records, Madeleine was collected at 12.25, that's 60 seconds later. Which means that the decision for Kate to pick up Madeleine instead of the ususal Gerry, was made long before Gerry managed to take that incoming call.

How did Gerry come to know that he was going to receive a call at that exact time, having had his phone switched off for more than 24 hours?

Perhaps Gerry had spoken with someone before he left for Portugal to call him on 3rd May at that time about certain "arrangements" re the disappearance of Madeleine or maybe one of the Tapas friends had told him to expect a call at that time from someone they'd spoken to on a previous day. Would that make sense?

by Guest 27.08.11 15:09

Yes it would. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by russiandoll 08.10.11 23:46

Someone asked for info as to what Kate wrote in her book about her activities on this date.
Very interesting. as you would expect, a lot written about 28th [ 4 pages approx] when the family travelled and about their first full day in PDL , 29th April [approx 6 pages]
It then looks like there will be a brief summary of days to come as following a predictable pattern due to the fact she and Gerry liked a routine [ 1 page].... as if the next thing you might read after a brief outline of activities will be a fuller description of the notorious date, May 3rd.
This does not happen , however, there is a fair amount of detail for May 1and 2,[ 5 pages] and then as expected an entire chapter is devoted to the fateful day.
What sticks out like a sore thumb is that she writes NOTHING about the daytime activities of 30th April.
The following is all that the reader learns:

" On the evening of Monday 30 April I made my first foray to Baptista with Jane." [ref to trip to local supermarket]. "We wanted to stock up on a few essentials as the next day was a public holiday. We all managed to make it for dinner at the tapas restaurant that evening. Again , there was quite a cold wind , but there were plenty of amusing stories and mickey-taking to keep us cheerful."
There is a brief mention of the cleaner and her routine for the apartment and then it's straight on to May 1st.

Borrowed the book from local library, a most interesting read and as far as I am concerned, her silence about April 30th speaks volumes.
It is imo a significant date.

by Newintown 09.10.11 10:33

" On the evening of Monday 30 April I made my first foray to Baptista with Jane." [ref to trip to local supermarket]. "We wanted to stock up on a few essentials as the next day was a public holiday. We all managed to make it for dinner at the tapas restaurant that evening. Again , there was quite a cold wind , but there were plenty of amusing stories and mickey-taking to keep us cheerful."

Cleaning materials perhaps??

by Guest 09.10.11 11:21

" On the evening of Monday 30 April I made my first foray to Baptista with Jane."

I too thought this comment was really strange. Kate told us that the Millennium was to far away for breakfast and that every day they would have lunch in their apartment. So where did all those groceries come from?

lunch on the 29th & 30th, breakfast on the 30th thinking

by russiandoll 09.10.11 14:38

Kate says that Gerry went to this supermarket 29th April to get a few items for lunch and cereal so that they could have breakfast from then on in their apartment. So breakfast in 5a from 30th onwards.

What really struck me as bizarre was Kate's reasonably full account of ALL days apart from 30th April.

28th when they only spent part of daytime hours there due to travel : 3+ pages

29th : 6+ pages

May 1: 2+ pages

May 2: 2 pages.

zero.....nada...nul....NOTHING ABOUT A FULL DAY SPENT IN PDL 30 APRIL AND THEN ONLY A BRIEF REF TO SUPERMARKET AND EVENING MEAL AT TAPAS.

Maybe just me ,but it makes the date 30 April very significant. Why the almost total silence over this date when she has described all others in varying amounts of detail. Fair enough if all other days after 29th merged together because of the routine of their activities.....but she does not do this in her book and then jump to 3 May. That would not be so remarkable. The fact that this is the ONLY day she chooses not to record at all apart from 2 brief references to shopping and eating, makes it a stand-out issue .

by russiandoll 09.10.11 14:50

As the supermarket trip took place evening 30th April and tapas meal was later on that evening.....Kate Mc Cann chooses to SAY ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the activities of herself, her husband, her companions and her 3 children during daytime of 30th April.
ONLY 6 LINES written about 30th April when there are approx 16 PAGES devoted to writing about the holiday from 28th April until May 2nd.

The last we read of 29th is that she and Gerry were back in 5a at 11pm after their tapas meal.
No record of any activities until evening of 30th.
So an unusual day it would seem reasonable to conclude.
Any ideas why?

by Daisy 09.10.11 14:51

Newintown wrote:" On the evening of Monday 30 April I made my first foray to Baptista with Jane." [ref to trip to local supermarket]. "We wanted to stock up on a few essentials as the next day was a public holiday. We all managed to make it for dinner at the tapas restaurant that evening. Again , there was quite a cold wind , but there were plenty of amusing stories and mickey-taking to keep us cheerful."

Cleaning materials perhaps??

Separate toothbrushes for the children weren't essential though. I would imagine the baptista store sold them?

by russiandoll 09.10.11 16:13

from mccann files

Monday 30.04.2007

Breakfast apartment? apartment cleaning

Kids clubs:

Tennis 09.15-10.15 K

G 10.15-11.15

*? washing machine / blinds

Lunch - our apartment then → balcony F and Dave

Kids club?? beach

+ / - 16.00 K run 25 min.

16:30 Tennis lessons

High tea

18:30? tennis night for women

Recreational area

Afternoon: K and J Supermarket

Rest. - everyone

by russiandoll 11.10.11 18:15

Have not completed reading of phone activity, but have read this from truth for madeleine site which appears to confirm what I am seeing so far, that mobiles left behind when they had tapas meals.

The evidence from the call logs gives the strongest clue that the “Tapas
9” left their telephones in their rooms when they went to dinner.
Clarence Mitchell, the McCann’s spokesperson, confirmed this. In an
interview, reported on 6th April 2008 by Ned Temko of “The Guardian”, Mr
Mitchell said: “You had nine people in a bar without watches on,
without mobile phones and absolute panic set in when they realised what
had happened…. We would say that, if the police had a perfect time line
across nine people, that would be a damn sight more suspicious than the
fractured, illogical, composite statements they might have got”

now of clarrie is correct, how did the likes of Gerry and his pal who did the check manage to be as precise as 9.04 or 9.05 for one of the checks? and the sighting that never was, JT was precise about the time I think.
good job im a lady or id say it was all a load of b******s

by **tigger** 12.10.11 19:52

russiandoll wrote:Have not completed reading of phone activity, but have read this from truth for madeleine site which appears to confirm what I am seeing so far, that mobiles left behind when they had tapas meals.

The evidence from the call logs gives the strongest clue that the “Tapas
9” left their telephones in their rooms when they went to dinner.
Clarence Mitchell, the McCann’s spokesperson, confirmed this. In an
interview, reported on 6th April 2008 by Ned Temko of “The Guardian”, Mr
Mitchell said: “You had nine people in a bar without watches on,
without mobile phones and absolute panic set in when they realised what
had happened…. We would say that, if the police had a perfect time line
across nine people, that would be a damn sight more suspicious than the
fractured, illogical, composite statements they might have got”

now of clarrie is correct, how did the likes of Gerry and his pal who did the check manage to be as precise as 9.04 or 9.05 for one of the checks? and the sighting that never was, JT was precise about the time I think.
good job im a lady or id say it was all a load of b******s

I think Kate says in the book something like ' at exactly 9.00 by his watch, Gerry got up...etc. ' I'll have to trawl it.
found it!
'After ordering his food, Gerry left to do the first check just before 9.05 by his watch. He entered the apartment via the patio
doors and noticed

by Gillyspot 15.10.11 22:55

Stella wrote:Here is a chart listing Kate and Gerry's calls on the 3rd. Those highlighted in yellow represent calls at the same time.

GM KM
03-May 03-May
8.23
8.24
12.24
12.31
13.34
23.14 23.14
23.17 23.17
23.40
23.52

Have just been having a think. Graham Mackenzie another holidaymaker at the Ocean Club said overhead Gerry McCann between 10 and 11 pm on 3rd May 2007 speaking to a family member about Madeleine being taken by a paedophile, Yet according to the records he made no calls.

From his statement

"It was later that evening around 10 ' 11 that I heard a commotion on the complex, I decided to go out and see what was going on. I walked round a saw a group of people gathered. John Hill the resort manager was there with some of the Mark Warner staff. I heard that a little girl called Maddie was missing, at that point I did not realise which child it was. John Hill was organising a search of the complex as it was thought that she had wandered off at that point in time. I let (my wife) know what was going on and went to join the search. I went to search the area around the back of our apartment where there is a little garden with a big palm tree in the middle. I was looking in the shrubbery and the little gardens to the apartments.

I worked my way around the area, eventually coming around the back of the tennis courts and up towards what I now know to be the McCanns apartment a couple of hours later. I was looking in the little gardens on the poolside of that block, I was in the end garden when I heard a male voice, he sounded distraught his voice cracking with emotion. I looked to see who I now know to be Gerry McCann stood above me on the balcony/patio about 3 metres away speaking on a mobile phone. I cannot recall his exact words but I got the impression that he was speaking to perhaps a family member or someone he was very close to due to the nature of his conversation.

He said something along the lines of there being Paedophile gangs in Portugal and that they had abducted Madeleine. I was so shocked by this, having originally thought that she had just wandered off.

I had looked up by now and we actually made eye contact, his conversation did not change at all when he realised that I was there. I felt as if I were intruding on a private moment and so I left the garden at that point. I had overheard only a snippet of it"
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Guest 16.10.11 8:03

Gillyspot wrote:

Have just been having a think. Graham Mackenzie another holidaymaker at the Ocean Club said overhead Gerry McCann between 10 and 11 pm on 3rd May 2007 speaking to a family member about Madeleine being taken by a paedophile, Yet according to the records he made no calls.

ooh interesting..... good spot!

Looking at Gerry's phone records, those two calls were from Gerry to Kate.

I looked at the phone ping maps for Tapas 7 for that time, in case one of their phones was used for calls by Gerry:

Diane - no pings after 1930
David Payne - NO Phone records available 29 April, 1,2,3 May (hmmmm....why?)
Jane - no pings after 2030 and this was a call to the Goddards
Fiona - no pings that day
Russell - no pings after 10:52

Rachel and Matt's pings are interesting. They have many pings between 2245 and 2324 - many of them within 5 seconds of each other. Can't see any call records which show actual numbers called for them but to me looks like they were in communication with each other as one phone will ping then 5 seconds later the other. Only calls that fall outside this pattern are for Matt 22:45:05, 22:45:13, 22:45:30. Given the quick succession these are either very short calls or sms... either way, can't be Gerry on a lengthy phone call that was witnessed ...

Rachel pings 22:51:24 then Matt pings 22:51:25 - 1 second diff
Matt pings 22:58:29 then Rachel pings 22:58:34 - 5 seconds diff
Rachel pings 22:59:12 then Matt pings 22:59:17 - 5 seconds diff
Matt pings 23:00:18 then Rachel pings 23:00:22 - 4 seconds diff
Matt pings 23:05:44 then Rachel pings 23:05:48 - 4 seconds diff
Rachel and Matt ping together at 23:06:17
Matt pings 23:24:31 then Rachel pings 23:24:41 - 10 seconds diff