The creche enquiry

I see your logic and experience at work here, PeterMac. But after 4 unfruitful years, I think some of us are hoping that one or other of the police forces involved could now find time for a little more of the imaginative "out of left field" type of work. Is Colombo really dead?

Perhaps the people who created that technology would examine them pro bono. If I were them I would seriously think about the global recognition ££££$$$$$$$$$££££££££ and the publicity it would create for them. Being linked to the biggest crime of the century that involves the British Government and a visit to the Pope !!!

The thing is, some of the Jellyfish (twins) creche records have been witheld form the DVD, so someone has already found something wrong in that area. It's just a case of expanding on that.

How long does it take for an expert in the Met to do what we have done, to see that something's not right? 1 hour, maybe 2. They have £3.4M at their disposal, they could look at Kiko's example on here in seconds if they wanted to.

What if the met do see Stella what will happen next ? Will Naylor be questioned ?

They lied when saying they went to the Millenium the first night because the' Tapas' was closed ( Millenium was part of their 'half board' package deal)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

ROSA wrote:What if the met do see Stella what will happen next ? Will Naylor be questioned ?

That would be a good start ROSA. Followed by all the other parents using that creche group who is on the list. But more urgently I would speak to all the guests who either left early or arranged to stay longer last minute. So far I know of 3 of them. One of them has never been spoken to by any Police force EVER !!!

I have a little list of those who should be questioned/requestioned. Naylor. His family friend. Murat. Walczuch. Two people on the "last to talk with........" list who haven't yet been identified, but would be if the police investigated their telephone numbers and accounts.

Re:DISCREPANCY LIST
(Date Posted:11/08/2010 9:55 AM)



Discrepancy Questions..

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
1 Why did the Paynes and Matthew Oldfield claim to have passed each other in very different places on the way to the tapas and Dianne Webster claimed to have not seen him until her Rogatory when she remembered because Dave and Fiona had reminded her.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
2 Why did Rachael claim the last time she saw Madeleine was at mini tennis on Thursday. Madeleine's group played on Tuesday. Is Tuesday the last time she saw her?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
3 Why did Rachael describe the mini tennis as played on Court 1, when the records show it was Court 2. (the police seemed to find it important by questioning her)

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
4 Why did Catriona claim that Gerry wasn't at high tea on May 3rd and that she thought he was at tennis, when both Kate and Gerry claim he was there.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
5 Why did Gerry claim to have entered the front door and opened the patio doors for Kate who was carrying Madeleine back from high tea on May 3rd. Kate says they all went in through the front doors.

6 Why did they give different accounts of Madeleine asking about why they didn't come to her. (She asked her father, she asked Kate, it was the twins crying, it was her crying etc)

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
7 Why did Gerry claim that he picked Madeleine up from the creche on Thursday lunch (he remembered taking the short cut) when Kate and Fiona claim they walked together. Kate says she went to the apartment first, Fiona said they left from the pool area.

8 Why did the police compile the Diagram of Events according to Catriona telling them that she only went to the beach twice, on Tuesday and Wednesday afternoon, not mentioning the mini sail.

9 Why did they not release Thursday diagram or twins creche record for Thursday morning?

10 Why, after the family's trip to the beach Tuesday lunchtime (for 5 ice creams) did they drop Madleine off at the creche in time for her to go on another trip (to the beach?) for ice cream trip

11 Why did Catriona claim they went to the beach 15.30 to 16.30 on Tuesday and Wednesday and did not mention the ice cream trip, 2.30pm-3.30pm Tuesday according to the Activity sheet.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
12 Why did Kate receive a 'flurry' of phone calls (between 10.16pm and 10.27pm) in the 15 minutes prior to Mrs Fenn hearing the crying Was she at the tapas as she claims they did not arrive back until 11.00pm?

13 Why did Kate make (unusual) very early morning calls to her friend (Amanda, her husband is a pathologist) on Wednesday morning?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
14 Why did Najoua the quiz mistress claim that no-one (including Gerry) left the table during the time she was there (9.00pm-9.50pm?) and she does not recall seeing Kate or David Payne at the table. Just an empty place setting.

15 Why did Catriona claim to have seem Jane and David at the beach when she was at the mini sail. Why would she have known David?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
16 Where are the pictures of Ella taken at the mini sail and why (with only a few children) was Madeleine not in the picture.

17 Did Catriona take the children to the mini sail alone? Why is there no statement from the other nannies to say they went?

18 Why did the police not interview Alice Stanley and Chris Unsworth, the mini sail instructors?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
19 Why is there not one credible sighting of Madeleine after Sunday lunchtime when she was seen by the cleaner's daughter leaving the apartment for lunch at the Paynes?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
20 Why did Kate claim the shutters were broken on Sunday and the maintenance fixed them on Monday when records shows it was Tuesday. Why did they need to show her how to use the washing machine?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
21 Why did the cleaner claim there was a cot in the parents bedroom on Wednesday morning and both Gerry and Kate denied it was there?

22 Why did Madeleine's bed not show signs of being used, when it was made up by the cleaner on Wednesday morning and should have been slept in Wednesday night as well as Thursday evening? (the other bed was messy)

23 Why did the pictures from the apartment show a (relatively) normal amount of clothes left around when the cleaners daughter said that her mother had mentioned to her about the mess of their apartment (indicating something abnormal).

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
24 Why did Matthew Oldfield claim to have been sick because of what he had eaten on the plane, and yet suggested that Rachael's sickness on Wednesday may have been the same as his.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
25 Why is there very little information regarding the week from David Payne's statements?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
26 Why did the police question Fiona about the time after the Paraiso vist and then push her to admit that she didn't know what David was doing between 6.00pm and 7.00pm?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
27 Why did David claim to have arrived back at the apartment approx 8.00pm when Fiona claims he was there at 7.10 (while he was 'supposedly' playing tennis at the Mens Social')

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
28 Why did Kate claim that David didn't enter the apartment when David claims to have entered and described the children at length?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
29 Why did Rachael claim that Ella may have been given a bath at their apartment on Thursday evening?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
30 Why was there a lot of 'avoidance of specifics' and 'days rolled over' in the statements?

There is more, but thats all for now...

Food for thought? (especially considering most of it is earlier than 5.30pm May 3rd)



(Message edited by TinLizzy On 12/31/2010 7:56 AM)

On the morning of April 28th, Madeleine, aged 3, goes to Leicestershire airport to board a flight for Faro, accompanied by her parents, Gerald McCann and Kate Healy, both 39, doctors, living in Rothley, England, and by her brother and sister, Amelie and Sean, twins aged 2. The family is taking a short holiday - one week - until the following Saturday, May 5th. Madeleine seems at the same time happy and anxious. In Faro, where she arrives at around 2pm, she boards the minibus provided for tourists by the tour operator, to travel the 70 kilometres that separate her from her destination: the Ocean Club holiday complex at Vila da Luz, not far from the town of Lagos. The McCanns are traveling in the company of the Payne family, composed of David Payne (41) and his wife Fiona (35), doctors, their daughters Lilly and Scarlett (aged 2 and 1 respectively) and Diana Webster, aged 63, credit manager, Fiona's mother. One hour earlier, at around 1pm, the other members of the group of holidaymakers had arrived from London: the Oldfield couple - Matthew Oldfield (38), doctor, Rachael Mampilly (37) human resources manager, and their daughter Grace (19 months) - as well as the O'Brien couple - Russell O'Brien (37), doctor, Jane Tanner (36) marketing manager, and their daughters Ella and Evie (aged 3 and 1 respectively) David Payne is the organiser of the trip. These couples have spent their holidays together for several years. In January 2005, while Kate was pregnant with the twins, they stayed for a week in Lanzarote, an island in the Canaries. In September 2003, the McCanns and their friends Matthew Oldfield, Rachael Mampilly, Russell O'Brien and Jane Tanner spent a week in Umbria in Italy, where they went to attend David and Fiona Payne's wedding. In September 2005, Gerald, Kate and their daughter Madeleine, then aged 2 years and 4 months, went to Majorca, in Spain, for a few days of relaxation with the Payne's and other friends. On their arrival at the Ocean Club, the McCanns are allocated apartment 5A, on the ground floor of one of the apartment blocks, the back of which looks over the swimming pool, the tennis court and the Tapas restaurant. This apartment is on the corner of the building with a public road running alongside. The other couples are accommodated in apartments 5H (Payne family), 5D (O'Brien family), and 5B (Oldfield family); 5B adjoins 5A and is close to 5D. Except for 5H, on the first floor, they're all on the ground floor.

On april 28 in the minibus Gerry was very happy going on vacation.

Bebootje wrote:On april 28 in the minibus Gerry was very happy going on vacation.

Travelling with kids is very tiring. I know having travelled a lot with mine. Particularly when you add in delayed planes, delays in getting off, all the trolleys taken and nice things like that.

I don't think a parent looking grumpy towards the end of the outgoing journey is in itself significant. I can remember holidays when I wasn't smiling too at that stage.

I'm glad that this footage has cropped up again as, though it's been discussed before, the oddities relating to it haven't been resolved. Apart from a odd movement of Madeleine's right leg she is strangely immobile (as is the girl to the right) though the twins on the left look perfectly normal and active. What do other posters think of it?

The different creche groups explained

Mini club (3-5 yrs)

Supervisor Lyndsy Johnson, then Amy Tierney

1^st group Cat Baker (MM & E**a O’Brien)

2^nd group Emma Wilding


Toddler club 1 (12m-23m) Shinead Vine, Jacqueline Williams, Leanne Wagstaff

2 sub groups, each group having 3 children each

Toddler club 2 (24m-3 yrs) Stacy Portz, Shinead Vine, Sarah Williamson, Susan Owen (AM & SM)


Baby club (3- 11 months)

Supervisor Lyndsay Johnson, then Amy Tierney

Charlotte Pennington, Lynne Fretter

3 sub groups, each group having 2 babies each

THE ROUTINE IS ESTABLISHED Sunday April 29th On the morning of Sunday April 29th, at around 8.40am, the McCann couple and their children again walk the 2 kilometres that separate them from the Millenium to have breakfast. Then, the children are entrusted to the play leaders - Madeleine to the daycare centre in the building that houses the main reception of the tourist complex, while Sean and Amelie stay at the playgroup, near the Tapas restaurant, that takes the youngest children. At around 12.30pm, the parents come and fetch them for lunch, play with them sometimes in the swimming pool or in the play area, then, at around 2.30pm, take them back to the play leaders, with whom they stay until 5.30pm. Sometimes the children have dinner with them.

ROSA wrote: THE ROUTINE IS ESTABLISHED Sunday April 29th On the morning of Sunday April 29th

Wasn't that their first full day? Routine estabished already?

i hope so

Marian wrote:I'm glad that this footage has cropped up again as, though it's been discussed before, the oddities relating to it haven't been resolved. Apart from a odd movement of Madeleine's right leg she is strangely immobile (as is the girl to the right) though the twins on the left look perfectly normal and active. What do other posters think of it?

I would imagine they have been given plenty of Calpol to calm them down. Seems to be the drug of choice by the Mccanns (or perhaps the abductor got in an extra early dose)

On May 4th, the parents authorise us to check the phone calls logged on their mobile. - Here's a copy of the summary of calls. - I only have that of the couple. We have yet to receive the summary from BTS (*) - OK, what have we got? - Do you see what I see? - Yes, I think so: between April 27th and May 4th, Kate did not make any calls. Hum... - None either, between 11.22am and 11.17pm on the night of the disappearance. - Kate mustn't like making telephone calls... - For Gerald, there's nothing before May 4th at exactly 12.15am - What does that mean? They never made phone calls then? - Wait, there's something here. Look at the number at the top of the list. - Yes, so? - On her telephone, her husbands' number is logged: she called him on May 3rd at 11.17pm, but on Gerald's, nothing, no trace of that call! - How can that be explained? - It's simple as anything: the list of calls has been deleted. - Always the same old question: why? Summing up: the first phone calls were exchanged one hour after the disappearance. It could be imagined that in that lapse of time, they were busy looking for their

Is it really 2km from 5A to the Millenium? Where is the Millenium?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Top right, just above number 14, you will see the 'Mirage'. This is the Millennium restaurant.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Looking at this map and following the road it looks some way away. But as the crow flies and using paths to cut through the middle of the complex, it probably cut the distnace in half.

The 3 tennis courts right beside the Millennium restaurant has always interested me..