Martin Grime facts and explanations

Here's the link Me, http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PORTUGUESE-FORENSIC.htm

I thought it was already in the library, but just had a look but could not see it, so I will add it to there now, as it explains quite a lot.

It's the bit at the bottom that's the important bit. It now looks like that page is a combination of things from July/Aug 2007 and May 2007 for some reason.

Forensics collected 4th May 2007 - sorry can't get it any larger!

FORENSIC COLLECTIONS IN THE PM OF 4 MAY 2007

9 PROCESSO IX- 2311

Pictures of the wardrobe without the blue bag, in the detailed report that started at 15:30pm of 4 May when the forensic material was collected.

parent cupboard, p.m. 4 May photo 18 a 20

09-VOLUME-IXa.. The hair collections from the bed: ten markers seen in the pictures but the INML report states that only four hairs were in the sealed envelope that they received for analysis

bed forensics p.m. 4 May photo 28 a 30

09-VOLUME-IXa-bedcollection

FRONT DOOR LOCK

09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2318

5A FORENSIC_04_05_07

It is the first time official images of the Praia da Luz apartment have been released. bedspread stain VOLUME_IX_ processo_2317 BEDSPREAD STAIN p2317 04-05 07Photos of bedspread stain VOLUME_IX_processo_2317 Thanks to Pamalam http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ-PHOTOS.htm

the writings of the wrongs on the cost of hire for Eddie

Grime claims that in a 6 year period in Britain, Eddie was deployed over 200 times. This disclosure under Freedom of Information (FOI) indicates just 37 deployments in the 5 year period 2003-2007.
Either Eddie must have had one very busy year or Grime has got his sums wrong.

http://www.southyorks.police.uk/foi/disclosurelog/20090062

Some States in America use human cadavers to train cadaver dogs on what are known as ‘body farms’. Grime claims that Eddie has been trained on such a farm in the States. An FOI answer to a question I have submitted cited parts of a Personal Development review for the Year 2005-6 when it was stated that Eddie (then aged 5 or 6, and close to retirement) had been to the States for that training. The cited justification was, not that it would improve Eddie’s performance, but that it would “generate some income potential”.

Until his last day of service, the daily cost of hiring Eddie was just £10. And no documention confirming this apparent trip was ever received by SYP.

http://madeleine-writingthewrongs.com/2011/09/01/steel-magnolia-and-the-enigmatic-martin-grime/

dragonfly wrote:the writings of the wrongs on the cost of hire for Eddie

Grime claims that in a 6 year period in Britain, Eddie was deployed over 200 times. This disclosure under Freedom of Information (FOI) indicates just 37 deployments in the 5 year period 2003-2007.
Either Eddie must have had one very busy year or Grime has got his sums wrong.

http://www.southyorks.police.uk/foi/disclosurelog/20090062

Some States in America use human cadavers to train cadaver dogs on what are known as ‘body farms’. Grime claims that Eddie has been trained on such a farm in the States. An FOI answer to a question I have submitted cited parts of a Personal Development review for the Year 2005-6 when it was stated that Eddie (then aged 5 or 6, and close to retirement) had been to the States for that training. The cited justification was, not that it would improve Eddie’s performance, but that it would “generate some income potential”.

Until his last day of service, the daily cost of hiring Eddie was just £10. And no documention confirming this apparent trip was ever received by SYP.

http://madeleine-writingthewrongs.com/2011/09/01/steel-magnolia-and-the-enigmatic-martin-grime/

Since the findings of the dogs are crucial evidence, it makes sense to dismantle that. However, I find it hard to believe for a start, that hiring the dog was £ 10,00 a day. Can this be substantiated? Certainly cheaper for Grimes to stay home and take them for a run in the woods.
No documentation for this trip sounds even weirder. So he just went there on his tod, with the dogs, quite an expensive trip.
Grimes certainly didn't court publicity. Did his job, recorded the findings and went off.
Documentation for this wouldn't have been sent to SY anyway, but to LP. SY has only recently taken this investigation over. Perhaps all this wonderful 'evidence' is from a pro site?
They really must learn to field some credible arguments, this is so long past the time it happened. I believe Grimes is working in the US lately? It wouldn't look professional to discuss any case with anyone.

http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/martin-grime/8/4a7/972



I don't know why people are so dismissive of Martin Grime "over there on those other sites"! (well we do actually, coz it doesn't suit them to think outside the script). If he trains or has trained dogs for the police, military, worked with the FBI, they are pretty impressive credentials. Do the detractors know how silly they sound when discrediting something that has an outstanding success record? And would they been so keen to dismiss a sniffer dog that alerted to a potential explosive device on an aeroplane they were about to board? "Move out the way, I have a flight to catch, the dogs are wrong!" Like hell they would. Or if indeed the dogs had alerted at Murats in the early days? No they would take it as concrete evidence that Murat was involved! Thats what thoroughly hacks me off about their hollow arguements.

well said Smokeandmirrors

And so the madness goes on.

I find it amusing that the Pro’s so often agonise over the question as to why antis would want to accuse and condemn people they have never met.

Conversely I find the question rattling round my own mind is why the Pro’s would distort and discredit any and all information which indicates guilt against people they have never met!

The only conclusion I can come to is that they are all suffering from an extreme form of what can only be called Princess Diana syndrome. You’ll recall the massive outpouring of grief over someone 99.9% of the public had never met yet appeared to be as devastated by her death as they would by the death of a member of their own family.

So we have Pro’s discrediting the work of the dogs, even though none of them are experts in this field and none of them know truly how the dog’s work.

They refuse to accept the fact that Grimes was brought in on the recommendation of Mark Harrison, they refuse to accept the findings of the dog, they accuse Grime of leading the dogs and they refuse to accept the deposition and statement Grime signed.

All because they know in their heart of hearts that these two doctors (who they’ve never met) must be innocent.

The bottom line on the dogs work is that Grime signed his statement outlining his findings and it has never been refuted or questioned either by his superiors within Plod or indeed by the McCann’s (well apart from when Gerry tried to discredit it at the beginning and was then proven so spectacularly wrong at which point he’s gone rather quiet on the subject)

But no Grime’s claims are wrong and he therefore must be a liar.

The Pro’s like to patronise over the “mad” conspiracy theories that some Anti’s put forward. However they now claim that Amaral was a bent copper trying to fit them up, Rebello was as well, now Grimes is a liar leading the dogs to find evidence against their leaders.

It’s amazing how many people these pro’s think are in on this grand conspiracy to fit up two provincial non entities from Leicestershire.

They’ll be trying to find dirt on the Appeals court judges next (the ones who clearly validated Amaral’s book and thesis) to try and add them to this grand conspiracy.

tigger wrote:

dragonfly wrote:the writings of the wrongs on the cost of hire for Eddie

Grime claims that in a 6 year period in Britain, Eddie was deployed over 200 times. This disclosure under Freedom of Information (FOI) indicates just 37 deployments in the 5 year period 2003-2007.
Either Eddie must have had one very busy year or Grime has got his sums wrong.

http://www.southyorks.police.uk/foi/disclosurelog/20090062

Some States in America use human cadavers to train cadaver dogs on what are known as ‘body farms’. Grime claims that Eddie has been trained on such a farm in the States. An FOI answer to a question I have submitted cited parts of a Personal Development review for the Year 2005-6 when it was stated that Eddie (then aged 5 or 6, and close to retirement) had been to the States for that training. The cited justification was, not that it would improve Eddie’s performance, but that it would “generate some income potential”.

Until his last day of service, the daily cost of hiring Eddie was just £10. And no documention confirming this apparent trip was ever received by SYP.

http://madeleine-writingthewrongs.com/2011/09/01/steel-magnolia-and-the-enigmatic-martin-grime/

Since the findings of the dogs are crucial evidence, it makes sense to dismantle that. However, I find it hard to believe for a start, that hiring the dog was £ 10,00 a day. Can this be substantiated? Certainly cheaper for Grimes to stay home and take them for a run in the woods.
No documentation for this trip sounds even weirder. So he just went there on his tod, with the dogs, quite an expensive trip.
Grimes certainly didn't court publicity. Did his job, recorded the findings and went off.
Documentation for this wouldn't have been sent to SY anyway, but to LP. SY has only recently taken this investigation over. Perhaps all this wonderful 'evidence' is from a pro site?
They really must learn to field some credible arguments, this is so long past the time it happened. I believe Grimes is working in the US lately? It wouldn't look professional to discuss any case with anyone.

It's the official FB find madeleine page which promotes the WOTW link and highlights this blog to all the followers , it is normally Kate or web master who puts the postings up, wotw also has mentioned jayelles work as well on their blogs,

Stella wrote:Can I just remind everyone that this is a thread about Martin Grime and we need to keep it on topic please.

Will be splitting this and putting it in the crime section.

Just snip it then, you need to change half the the threads, loads are off topic, Marian asked a question , It is only polite to respond, Not only that if you have access to do that, you can then merge some threads together, for instance I wanted to add to a Pat Brown topic, but people just open up new threads when it can all be kept in one ,

dragonfly wrote:Just snip it then, you need to change half the the threads, loads are off topic, Marian asked a question , It is only polite to respond, Not only that if you have access to do that, you can then merge some threads together, for instance I wanted to add to a Pat Brown topic, but people just open up new threads when it can all be kept in one

There is a very specific reason for keeping threads on topic. Many people come here to learn about specific things and do not have many surplus hours to dredge through loads of posts that are completely off topic. We are also aware that there are some people who come here deliberately to trash some of the important threads in this way. As we are unable to determine who is genuine and who is not, if in doubt certain threads will be split in this way, as I am sure you have seen done many times in the past. So this also serves as a timely reminder to politely ask all posters to keep threads on topic please.

Well irrespective of your thoughts on Jacko at least he contributed something to build up such a following of support.

What have this odious pair ever achieved to accumulate such a rabid fanbase?

Me wrote:What have this odious pair ever achieved to accumulate such a rabid fanbase?

I think it was the same tactic as the Bush reign, conditioning people's thoughts through the media. Are Carter Ruck the American's Guantanamo bay?

Me wrote:Well irrespective of your thoughts on Jacko at least he contributed something to build up such a following of support.

What have this odious pair ever achieved to accumulate such a rabid fanbase?

dont mention the j word!
I think that most supporters are people who empathize that their child has vanished and follow the official story, (they are not aware and oblivious to alternative scenerios )

I hold my hands up I did not question the official story, I don't read papers but used to catch glimpses of news, never followed the story heavily ,
Although found leaving the kids alone odd, but then thought it was weird that Brown Pope got involved ,
and all they eye symbols Gerry's graph and the promotion of an amber alert, raised my eyebrows thought they had to be a free masonic connection , No one would get that help , you would be lucky to get a letter of the PM staff,

again It was not until I was on you tube, and kept seeing all the messages about Gerry Kate (not good) and the postings saying watch Truth of a lie, So I watched it with a open mind, and there you go, sat their shocked but no doubt, it all started to make sense,
so I researched more and started to read what was coming out of the Mccanns own mouths or lack off, So unless people search more they wont find out, What I do not understand is the extreme Pro's who have the alternative information but disregard it,

I could not get my head round the car 23 days after , and Mccanns keep going on the television,
But I trust the dogs, and Martin Grimes dogs to both bark at the same spot of tile, blood and cadaver ,
Dogs are brilliant creatures, and to just Dismiss the dogs like the Mccanns did , If they had reacted thinking something had happened to her in the apartment, but they did not, the insistence that she left alive, they could no why say that for certain, so after reading what I could ,
I now understand why they need to tell the public that she was alive, as it does not fit in with their time lines,


While we are at it, I think all those calls deleted where they instructions, from higher powers? on what to do?
Did Gerry's Connections, were they instructing them of a clear up operation? , and the lack of tooth brushes were used to scrub the tiles down in the cracks?,
hence the place being to clean? ,

and That Man can not think of his name driving the bill board , I do not think customs ect would stop his truck, I believe that it could of been possible that items of interest could of been brought in out that way,
Then to find out the man is now Dead is very dodge, Did he know to much?
we will never know , Mrs Fern has now passed away and Kate couldn't even speak nice about her, She was a witness and has now gone,
And You have Dogs and Tony who they have no control over , The dogs cant speak out, so they just dismiss them, So they Have Tony and look what they are doing to him,

Just My opinion I arrive at this opinion due to lack of answers and the words that have came from mccanns own mouth and the Dog Alerts

By chance this evening I caught a programme of this title shown originally in 2008. Here's link to some information about it:



http://www.itv.com/PressCentre/SendInTheDogs/Ep2Wk30/default.html



It showed Eddie and Keela with Martin Grimes and said how efficient they are in detection work. Then there is a mention of them being sent in to help with the McCann case but something to the effect of they complicated the situation.



There was then a commercial break, after which the rest of the programme was not about them. It would have been interesting to hear how, in the programme makers' view, the dogs' findings caused complications!

Only just started reading the thread but just wanted to give my opinion on whether Eddie alerts to blood only. I don't think he does. He is a cadaver dog used to detect whole body or dismembered parts of a body.

Do all cadaver dogs have to work in tandem with a "blood dog"?

(They train them just up the road from me, think I will ask

littlepixie wrote:Only just started reading the thread but just wanted to give my opinion on whether Eddie alerts to blood only. I don't think he does. He is a cadaver dog used to detect whole body or dismembered parts of a body.

Do all cadaver dogs have to work in tandem with a "blood dog"?

(They train them just up the road from me, think I will ask

Not sure whether it is Stella or Candy, but one of them is quite clued up on the way the dogs react. You will no doubt get a reply asap.

Stella wrote:More on this subject can be read here in our library
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2043-evrd-and-csi-dogs

The basic difference between a dog alerting to blood and a dog alerting to cadaver, is;

One will freeze on the spot, with their nose as close to the source of the blood as possible, but not touching. (Keela)

The other by barking when alerting to the scent of cadaver. (Eddie)

Eddie did start off originally as a blood dog, but was then retrained as a cadaver dog. The two different reactions, being barking and freezing, is how Martin Grime knows the difference between blood and the scent of cadaver.

littlepixie wrote:Do all cadaver dogs have to work in tandem with a "blood dog"?

That is a very good question littlepixie. Personally, I think this is the most effective way of reading a crime scene. If you consider death by heart attack or strangulation, initially the body would not leak any blood. So a blood dog is no good in that situation. A cadaver dog could indicate death and body removed. In the situation of a violent crime, where there is spatter, which has later been cleaned up and only the blood dog signals and the cadaver dog does not. It would suggest that a few minutes after someone was violently killed, the body was removed immediately. The last senario is that both dogs signal, which would suggest a violent death and the body has stayed in situ for quite some.
If only one dog was used, you would not get a complete picture. So Martin Grime is an absolute genius to train and work with two different types of dog.

littlepixie wrote:Do all cadaver dogs have to work in tandem with a "blood dog"?

Interesting.....I put that question into Google exactly as you'd written it and most of the replies are about the McCanns

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sugexp=pfwc&cp=62&gs_id=2&xhr=t&q=Do+all+cadaver+dogs+have+to+work+in+tandem+with+a+%22blood+dog%22&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&site=&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=Do+all+cadaver+dogs+have+to+work+in+tandem+with+a+%22blood+dog%22%3F&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=5093990fd40cd077&biw=1280&bih=685