Re: RESEARCH RESULTS: Is THIS how the McCanns were able to DECEIVE everyone into believing Maddie was ALIVE and at the creche?

by polyenne 04.07.18 21:47

I have seen no satisfactory explanation of the mini-sail event, period !

by **HiDeHo** 06.07.18 3:28

Phoebe wrote:I have yet to hear a satisfactory explanation of how Cat Baker came to mistake the child she comforted on her lap during the mini-sail. There is no excuse of confusion due to numbers here. She had (according to her) one very upset little girl who needed to be cuddled on her lap and comforted. The excuse of the nannies not really interacting with the children one-on-one, or paying scant attention to an individual child, does not hold in this case. There is no way, in the scenario she describes, that she could have mistaken Madeleine for another child. Therefore she is either telling the truth and Madeleine was there or she is lying. Even if she had neglected getting to know Madeleine as an individual up to that point, she was bound to ask her name and address her by name during this interaction!

NOTE: Please understand I am not saying this DID happen, I am asking if it is possible and from everything i have seen it is.

As stated MANY times... I do not consider Russells daughter as a 'substitute' The nannies had a room full of children and would not necessarily know all their names and be able to identify them and would not have had any reason to note if one of the children was called Maddie specifically. As with the parents she would not necessarily know their names only that AFTER the fact she would associate the child entering at the same time as Gerry and think that was his child... ie Maddie

In answer to the question about mini sail... there have been questions a to whether it happened on Thursday morning... but huge contradictions, and from everything I can see there is NOTHING that I would be convinced is proof that the child Catriona talks about in all her early statements is definitely Madeleine...

Catriona took six children that were in her care to the 'mini sail'. Its very possible she could not name them individually. She wold not have seen (the real) Maddie for most of the week and she would have no need to focus on each child to identify them...only to keep them occupied and safe. (as explained in an earlier post)

She did not mention the trip in her first statement.

Unless she had a brilliant memory she was quoting the times according to the register. (as Stacey did also... but interesting to note the times she claims as we don't have the twins creche details for AM)

Catriona DOES say May 5th '...at no time did it seem to her that the little girl [little girl] was sad or unhappy, and she never made any comment about being cross, sad or discontent about anything.'

Catriona Rogatory April 2008 AFTER a visit Rothley where I believe she was likely 'reminded' of a few incidents.
Thursday, 3rd of May 2007, around 10H30 in the morning, where she cried at the launch of the yellow safety boat in the ocean where all the children were sailing. She was scared and fearful and cried on my lap "I am scared, I am scared."

I started to collate some of the things that happened that morning but such a huge amount off discrepancies and contradictions that day, and now finding out the twins were dropped off at 9.30 by the parents (mother picked them up at lunchtime) I have new questions to ask.

Kate was 'supposedly' playing tennis at 9.15. Gerry drops 'Maddie' off at 9.10, earlier than usual and 10 mins away from twins creche) and 'parents ' dropped the twins off at 9.30

Even if it was Gerry, why would he drop Maddie off first? Did he take the twins with him? (Highly unlikely) and if Kate dropped them off, how could she is she was playing tennis?

Lets not even TRY to discuss the shambles of who picked Maddie up at lunch and who picked the twins up...

On the LAST day they saw their daughter.. NEITHER of them could remember and even Catriona could not remember and Fiona tells a different story.....

Interesting that the creche records for the twins is missing as well as the 'Diagram of Events' for that day is blacked out...

86 to 103 External Diligence of OC staff with passport copies of creche workers

TRANSLATIONS BY ALBYM

01-Processo 86 to 103

KIDS CLUB STAFF interviewed 4 May 2007 by Inspector M.Pinho

*CATRIONA B.*

In our informal conversation with Catriona Trease Sisile B., also known as CAT, she stated:

1. That she arrived on March 21st 2007 and that she plans to return to the UK on November 7th 2007;
2. That she cared for Madeleine since Sunday April 29th 2007, daily until yesterday and that she always worked the same hours;
3. That yesterday Madeleine arrived at 9.10. It was her father, Gerry, who brought her;
4. That her mother, Kate, picked her up at 12.25;
5. That her mother, Kate, dropped her off at 14.50 and picked her up at 17.30;
6. That in the same room as Madeleine, there were 6 other children in the morning and 4 in the afternoon (including Madeleine);
7. That she did not see any strangers in the complex during that time or previous days.
8. That on the first day, Madeleine was shy. On the following days she was more calm and uninhibited. Yesterday she was joyful.
9. That she was never far from Madeleine, keeping her under visual supervision at all times when she was her responsibility, even asking her permission to go to the bathroom;
10. That, over the days, she noticed no change in the behaviour of the child's parents;
11. That she noticed no abnormal situation relating to this family;
12. That Madeleine had not told her about any person who had contacted [spoken to] her in recent days, nor [about] any possibly suspicious conversation.

253 to 256-Witness statement of Catriona Treasa Sisile Baker 2007.05.06

When asked she states that she knows the McCann family since last Sunday, 29th April, 2007, when they enrolled their daughter in the “Minis” service. She replies that since that date and until Thursday, the 03rd of May, 2007, she was with Madeleine every day, but is unable to specify if she was present on the Sunday morning. [Russells daughter was not at creche on Sunday morning]

Questioned, she responds that since she has been working with the little girl, it has seemed to her that the parents were attentive to their daughter given that they asked what Madeleine had done in the creche and that they even accompanied Madeleine a few times in certain outside activities. Concerning the little girl, she states that she was an active and sociable child. Only on the first day was she more reticent with the group.

The informant reports that during the time that Madeleine was entrusted to her care, at no time did it seem to her that the little girl was sad or unhappy, and she never made any comment about being cross, sad or discontent about anything. She also reports that she was an obedient child who never wandered from the group and who never spoke to strangers.

When asked, the informant responds that it was always the parents who brought Madeleine and fetched her from the "Mini Club."

870 to 872 Diligence carried out with Catriona Baker regarding Madeleine's outing to the beach 2007.05.10

Date: 2007.05.10
Place: Praia da Luz, Lagos
Officer responsible: Manuel Pinho, Inspector
Description and result of diligence

Today (10 May 07), accompanied by Joao Barreiras and Catriona Baker, the 'nanny' responsible for the missing minor, retraced the places and times at which they left the resort area to go to Praia da Luz. A photographic report [of this journey] is attached:
- We were told by Catriona that the only days they went to the beach were Tuesday afternoon (1 May 2007) between 15:30 and 16:30, on Wednesday (the next day) at the same time and on Thursday between 10 and 11 o'clock (see attached table [of creche activities]).

- The route taken was as follows:

1. The parents left the children at "Baby Club", Mark Warner, situated next to the principal reception and which is open 24 hours;
2. then Catriona, with Madeleine and 4 or 5 more children, walked toward the beach. The distance is about 100 metres but not in a straight line;
3. she was always in front with the children behind linked together in a "summy snake" (the object being to form a snake so that the children stayed together in Indian file);
4. leaving the "Baby Club" they descended the stairs to the principal reception, through the front-entrance and crossed Rua Direita (the main street in Praia da Luz) heading for Beco das Palmeiras [passageway: called 'alley of palm trees'];
5. then they made a right towards Beco do Nordeste [passageway: called 'northeast alley'] after which they made a left and went down a stairway next to a property called "Casa Ortiga", that has the number 17;
6. at the bottom of the steps is Travessa das Redes [another street];
7. crossing this they descended alongside the parking lot towards the esplanade that runs the length of the beach;
8. after reaching the beach they went along the boardwalk to an area where there was a red awning and several thatched sunshades;

- On the first two days the children played and did activities in the sand. On the Thursday they went sailing next to the beach.
- On that day they sailed in a small yellow "catamaran";
- Alice Standley accompanied the children on the route and on the boat. Three children sailed with her at one time;

- Chris Unswork transported the children in a red amphibious boat (life-saving boat) until the boat reached the open sea, and, a few minutes later, returned them to the beach to pick up three other children from the group;

- All said that the children did not meet anyone else during their time at the beach, nor during the trip to it.
- All said that they saw no-one suspicious watching the children nor in the vicinity.
- Catriona said she noticed nothing abnormal [unusual] along the route either when going to the beach or when returning to the resort area.

3 to 6 Witness statement of Catriona Treasa Sisile Baker 2008.04.18
I got to know Gerry and Kate McCann on the Sunday morning, 29.04.2007, in the Minis Club. They brought the children and as it was their first day of holidays the normal procedure was that they were allocated a childcare worker. I had previously written the children's bracelets which included their name, allergies and relevant information. I stayed with Madeleine, 3 years old, in my group (Minis Club that week) together with E***, daughter of Jane Tanner. Either Kate or Gerry would accompany Madeleine every day in the morning and would return at lunch hour to take her back. I met Gerry more often as he would drop Madeleine off with greater frequency than Kate. I also remember that Kate was present for High Tea accompanied by the twins between 5H and 5H30 in the afternoon.

Most of the time in which I saw the family together, the children would be eating. The twins appeared tired at lunch, after a long day and also perhaps due to the heat, but I never became preoccupied by the children of by the comportment of the McCanns.

I never saw Kate or Gerry in a car in Portugal. I visited the family in their home at their invitation to see how they were getting along in November of 2007. That was the first time I saw them in a car.

On Thursday the 3rd of May 2007, I remember Gerry having accompanied Madeleine to the club between 9h15 and 9h20 in the morning. I do not remember who came to pick her up for lunch but after she returned in the afternoon for a dive/swim. These activities were realized with the other children. On this day I remember that we sailed and I saw friends of the McCanns on the beach, David and Jane. Around 14h45 Madeleine returned to the Minis Club on top of the reception but I do not remember who accompanied her. This afternoon we went swimming. Kate went to get Madeleine from the Tapas Bar area and according to what I remember she was wearing sporting clothes and I assumed that she was practicing some form of athletics. It was around 15h25/18h00. I think that Gerry was playing tennis.

On the 3rd of May, 2007, Kate and Gerry did not demonstrate any unusual comportment - they seemed friendly and happy.

(...)

I never noted anything strange in Madeleine's comportment during the time I stayed with her. There was one occasion, on Thursday, 3rd of May 2007, around 10H30 in the morning, where she cried at the launch of the yellow safety boat in the ocean where all the children were sailing. She was scared and fearful and cried on my lap "I am scared, I am scared." We only used the launches to transport the children to the small yellow boats. When we returned to the other boat she was happy again. She sailed in the small boat and even though some children had the opportunity to return to the port, she stayed for a second time as she appeared to be having a good time. Jane Tanner's daughter also took part in my group and together they would play. Apart from being a happy child in the club, she always seemed very content when she saw her parents. Madeleine did not demonstrate any fear with the return launch to land.

Madeleine never mentioned that she had cried in the absence of her parents nor did she tell me anything of significance relating to feeling sad or something relevant that would cause me to worry.

Mark Warner has a standard procedure, the signature on a page when a parent leaves or checks-in a child. There is a separate page for the morning and one for the afternoon. The page contains the name of the child, the hour of sign-in and the hour of pick-up for the afternoon. Only the parents have authority to take the children, except when there is some other agreement. When Gerry and Kate came to pick up Madeleine there were loving and the child would run into their arms.

Mark Warner maintained a register to all the activities in which the children participated. It functioned as a calendar, referring hour by hour, to what the children were doing. I believe that the Portuguese police collected the sign-in/out sheets and the registry of activities immediately on the day following the disappearance. I would say that Madeleine adored her family; she seemed happy as they did in the club.

During the week which Madeleine stayed in the club there were three events organized that included a trip to the beach. One of these events took place on Thursday in the morning, as referred to previously. Another of these events consisted of a trip to the beach with "hula hoops", shovels and buckets, etc, and the other trip to the beach was in order to eat ice cream. Together, the trips to the beach took place in the afternoon but I cannot state precisely which days. There should be a recording of this in the Mark Warner registers.

During these trips to the beach I never noticed anything untoward given that my attention was on the children in my charge.

by Eleanor1904 26.01.20 18:50

I don't know if this discussion was followed up on another thread or not, but I was just thinking about this scenario, and find the hypothesis of HiDeHo doable. I'm not sure about the sailing incident. Could the parents sometimes have put the "Madeleine" bracelet on Russel's daughter just so that a Madeleine was sometimes taken note of? A three year old can't read and wouldn't know.
The danger of getting caught is definitely there. But maybe it was worth it to them to try. Looking at all the other obvious lies that were easily debunked (e.g. no ruined shutters) it does sort of go down the same path.
But we're looking at this from our point of view and thinking that such a dauntless plan wouldn't be possible. I find myself thinking exactly that whenever I read about big scams that have taken place...e.g. selling people investment opportunities that don't exist, etc.
But I believe we can't look at it with our eyes. We have to look at it from the perspective of someone in an emergency situation needing a solution. I can very much imagine the Tapas 9 working out this plan if it was worth it to them. The alternative consequences might have been too great to bear.
The logic behind it is actually very simple...as long as the days are uneventful and go along as usual, who is going to remember one child on a specific date. And as we've seen nobody's memory is perfect. In the worst case, the McCann's could have just said that the creche records show she was there and whoever says otherwise can't remember correctly.
Furthermore, are we really to believe the times listed on the creche registers? If the parents logged the kids in and out they could have written wrong times. Just a thought.
In any case I find this idea very intriguing...it should be looked into more.

by Eleanor1904 26.01.20 19:09

I actually just thought of this after I sent off my earlier post...why didn't I think of this before?
What if HiDeHo's theory is right, but the object was that at some point someone was supposed to notice that Madeleine was missing. That would have been a much easier solution to their problem as they wouldn't have been involved so directly as if it happened in their appartment.
But nobody noticed that Madeleine was missing.
What to do?
Plan B the kidnapping from the appartment as we know it.

RESEARCH RESULTS: Is THIS how the McCanns were able to DECEIVE everyone into believing Maddie was ALIVE and at the creche?