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"Fresh agony for the McCanns"

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by HKP on 01.05.16 22:07

@Realist wrote:If you are referring to the so called investigation by the UK authorities, they would have no authority whatsoever to dictate as to who Mr. Smith could, or could not speak to, if for no other reason, the case is not within their jurisdiction.

Any enquiries the British police make regarding this matter can only be conducted with the mutual consent and co-operation of the relevant parties concerned.
So do you think that they have either been advised or have just decided not to blab to unknown bodies, cause I do (leaving aside the possibility of being sued).

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by suzyjohnson on 01.05.16 22:17

Yes, I bet Mr Smith wishes he'd never heard of the McCanns. He clearly doesn't want the publicity and that's a good thing. He has the younger members of his family to protect at the same time.

But, also, the Smiths sighting could be absolutely crucial at the end of the day, it's better if he doesn't talk about it.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by pennylane on 01.05.16 22:36

I completely agree with you suzy!

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Realist on 01.05.16 22:37

@HKP wrote:

So do you think that they have either been advised or have just decided not to blab to unknown bodies, cause I do (leaving aside the possibility of being sued).
I think that the Smiths are selective in who they speak to by choice. I don't think this has anything whatsoever to do with the threat of being sued.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Realist on 01.05.16 22:43

@pennylane wrote:
@suzyjohnson wrote:Yes, I bet Mr Smith wishes he'd never heard of the McCanns. He clearly doesn't want the publicity and that's a good thing. He has the younger members of his family to protect at the same time.

But, also, the Smiths sighting could be absolutely crucial at the end of the day, it's better if he doesn't talk about it.
I completely agree with you suzy!
Whereas I am in total agreement with Monsieur le Bennett on this occasion, in that if Mr. Smith informed me that Ilford was in the borough of Redbridge, I'd want to check if there had been any recent boundary changes. big grin

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by suzyjohnson on 01.05.16 22:46

@Realist wrote:
@pennylane wrote:
@suzyjohnson wrote:Yes, I bet Mr Smith wishes he'd never heard of the McCanns. He clearly doesn't want the publicity and that's a good thing. He has the younger members of his family to protect at the same time.

But, also, the Smiths sighting could be absolutely crucial at the end of the day, it's better if he doesn't talk about it.
I completely agree with you suzy!
Whereas I am in total agreement with Monsieur le Bennett on this occasion, in that if Mr. Smith informed me that Ilford was in the borough of Redbridge, I'd want to check if there had been any recent boundary changes. big grin

I can't see why anyone would discount the Smith sighting, I think it's genuine.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by pennylane on 01.05.16 22:50

And so do I believe it's genuine, suzy!

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Richard D. Hall on 01.05.16 22:56

I am not speculating whether or not the Smiths would talk to GA again.  I am hoping that GA would attempt to contact them as part of his new analysis of the timeline.  I realise that anybody that is contacted as part of any journalistic investigation is at liberty to ignore you.  I don't really see the point in pointing out that the Smiths do not have to talk.  We all know that.  I am hoping that as part of the new timeline book, he attempts to get people to talk to him as a journalist, rather than just refer to the police files.  The Smith evidence is unresolved IMO and has had further twists and turns since he was involved.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by HKP on 01.05.16 22:57

@Realist wrote:
@pennylane wrote:
@suzyjohnson wrote:Yes, I bet Mr Smith wishes he'd never heard of the McCanns. He clearly doesn't want the publicity and that's a good thing. He has the younger members of his family to protect at the same time.

But, also, the Smiths sighting could be absolutely crucial at the end of the day, it's better if he doesn't talk about it.
I completely agree with you suzy!
Whereas I am in total agreement with Monsieur le Bennett on this occasion, in that if Mr. Smith informed me that Ilford was in the borough of Redbridge, I'd want to check if there had been any recent boundary changes. big grin
Some would say that about Monsieur Le Bennett (sorry Tony  big grin ). There are some people who believe that Mr Smith would ask his 12 year old daughter (at the time) to commit perjury I'm not one of them.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Realist on 01.05.16 22:58

@suzyjohnson wrote:


I can't see why anyone would discount the Smith sighting, I think it's genuine.
Whatever the Smiths did or did not see, Suzy, it certainly wasn't Gerry McCann carrying his daughter, Madeleine, that you can rest assured of.

Whatever transpired with Madeleine occurred prior to the McCanns leaving their apt.for the Tapas bar.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by HKP on 01.05.16 23:03

@Richard D. Hall wrote:I am not speculating whether or not the Smiths would talk to GA again.  I am hoping that GA would attempt to contact them as part of his new analysis of the timeline.  I realise that anybody that is contacted as part of any journalistic investigation is at liberty to ignore you.  I don't really see the point in pointing out that the Smiths do not have to talk.  We all know that.  I am hoping that as part of the new timeline book, he attempts to get people to talk to him as a journalist, rather than just refer to the police files.  The Smith evidence is unresolved and has had further twists and turns since he was involved.
No your speculating that the Smith's lied. They have not sought any publicity there has been things in the press which you yourself have said you cannot believe anything you read. We are therefore left with GA trying to be a journalist (he's an ex policeman not a journalist!) and the Smith's as far as we know don't speak to the press. No doubt someone will bring up an article from an Irish newspaper etc. not worth the paper they're written on.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by suzyjohnson on 01.05.16 23:05

@pennylane wrote:
@suzyjohnson wrote:
@Realist wrote:
@pennylane wrote:
@suzyjohnson wrote:Yes, I bet Mr Smith wishes he'd never heard of the McCanns. He clearly doesn't want the publicity and that's a good thing. He has the younger members of his family to protect at the same time.

But, also, the Smiths sighting could be absolutely crucial at the end of the day, it's better if he doesn't talk about it.
I completely agree with you suzy!
Whereas I am in total agreement with Monsieur le Bennett on this occasion, in that if Mr. Smith informed me that Ilford was in the borough of Redbridge, I'd want to check if there had been any recent boundary changes. big grin

I can't see why anyone would discount the Smith sighting, I think it's genuine.
And so do I believe it's genuine, suzy!

I think I'm in the minority pennylane. I think the most likely explanation would be that GM made a hasty decision in response to an accident which occurred earlier on the evening of May 3 rd. Having been seen by the Smith family, I think it's probable that GM ran back to the apartment and told JT who then decided to say that she had seen a man, in similar clothes, at a time when it could not have been GM because he had an alibi in Jez Wilkins.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by HKP on 01.05.16 23:05

@Realist wrote:
@suzyjohnson wrote:


I can't see why anyone would discount the Smith sighting, I think it's genuine.
Whatever the Smiths did or did not see, Suzy, it certainly wasn't Gerry McCann carrying his daughter, Madeleine, that you can rest assured of.

Whatever transpired with Madeleine occurred prior to the McCanns leaving their apt.for the Tapas bar.
That's a very bold statement what evidence do you have it wasn't Gerry (I'm not saying it was you're the one that's assuring people).

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by suzyjohnson on 01.05.16 23:07

@Realist wrote:
@suzyjohnson wrote:


I can't see why anyone would discount the Smith sighting, I think it's genuine.
Whatever the Smiths did or did not see, Suzy, it certainly wasn't Gerry McCann carrying his daughter, Madeleine, that you can rest assured of.

Whatever transpired with Madeleine occurred prior to the McCanns leaving their apt.for the Tapas bar.
 That something happened to MM prior to her parents leaving to go to the tapas bar is a possibility, but I doubt anything had happened to her before May 3 rd.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by plebgate on 01.05.16 23:09

@HKP wrote:
@Richard D. Hall wrote:I am not speculating whether or not the Smiths would talk to GA again.  I am hoping that GA would attempt to contact them as part of his new analysis of the timeline.  I realise that anybody that is contacted as part of any journalistic investigation is at liberty to ignore you.  I don't really see the point in pointing out that the Smiths do not have to talk.  We all know that.  I am hoping that as part of the new timeline book, he attempts to get people to talk to him as a journalist, rather than just refer to the police files.  The Smith evidence is unresolved and has had further twists and turns since he was involved.
No your speculating that the Smith's lied. They have not sought any publicity there has been things in the press which you yourself have said you cannot believe anything you read. We are therefore left with GA trying to be a journalist (he's an ex policeman not a journalist!) and the Smith's as far as we know don't speak to the press. No doubt someone will bring up an article from an Irish newspaper etc. not worth the paper they're written on.
Actually HKP Rocky A is now an author  and authors have been  known to try speak to people they feel are of interest for research purposes before publishing.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Mirage on 01.05.16 23:09

I don't want to get into the Smith sighting palaver. However, I just wanted to say in response to HKP (without drawing down all the associated quote) that KH certainly had no compunction in coming out with that cock and bull story about the school bus which implicated her son. And this was done quite brazenly in a courtroom.

It's just an observation about the vagaries of human behaviour when in a bit of a fix.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Richard D. Hall on 01.05.16 23:11

I am sure the new book will be a very positive development, and bring justice one step closer.  Looking forward to getting a copy.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by aquila on 01.05.16 23:14

@Mirage wrote:I don't want to get into the Smith sighting palaver. However, I just wanted to say in response to HKP (without drawing down all the associated quote) that KH certainly had no compunction in coming out with a cock and bull story about her son and the school bus in a courtroom.

It's just an observation about the vagaries of human behaviour when in a bit of a fix.
I'd love someone to quote the precise radio programme, apparently aired on school-run time on a school bus with all the kids sitting ever so quietly so they could listen to the news.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by pennylane on 01.05.16 23:16

@suzyjohnson wrote:
@pennylane wrote:
@suzyjohnson wrote:
@Realist wrote:
@pennylane wrote:
@suzyjohnson wrote:Yes, I bet Mr Smith wishes he'd never heard of the McCanns. He clearly doesn't want the publicity and that's a good thing. He has the younger members of his family to protect at the same time.

But, also, the Smiths sighting could be absolutely crucial at the end of the day, it's better if he doesn't talk about it.
I completely agree with you suzy!
Whereas I am in total agreement with Monsieur le Bennett on this occasion, in that if Mr. Smith informed me that Ilford was in the borough of Redbridge, I'd want to check if there had been any recent boundary changes. big grin

I can't see why anyone would discount the Smith sighting, I think it's genuine.
And so do I believe it's genuine, suzy!

I think I'm in the minority pennylane. I think the most likely explanation would be that GM made a hasty decision in response to an accident which occurred earlier on the evening of May 3 rd. Having been seen by the Smith family, I think GM ran back to the apartment and told JT who decided to say that she had seen a man, in similar clothes, at a time when it could not have been GM because he had an alibi in Jez Wilkins.
That's my belief also.   friends roses

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Realist on 01.05.16 23:17

@suzyjohnson wrote:
. I think the most likely explanation would be that GM made a hasty decision in response to an accident which occurred earlier on the evening of May 3 rd. 
A hasty decision to bury his daughter and concoct a kidnapping fable in response to an accident which occurred earlier in the evening. Why would he feel the need to turn an accident into a potential murder enquiry, Suzy.

I don't know whether you are aware of the fact, but most people who commit crimes where a person is killed attempt to make them appear as accidents,  not t'uther way round. big grin

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by MayMuse on 01.05.16 23:22

Not sure if this has been posted at all, but found this interesting blog on "Smithman" 

http://textusa.blogspot.co.uk/2010/04/three-little-words-ten-huge-facts.html

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by HKP on 01.05.16 23:26

@Mirage wrote:I don't want to get into the Smith sighting palaver. However, I just wanted to say in response to HKP (without drawing down all the associated quote) that KH certainly had no compunction in coming out with that cock and bull story about the school bus which implicated her son. And this was done quite brazenly in a courtroom.

It's just an observation about the vagaries of human behaviour when in a bit of a fix.
Sorry Mirage but KM didn't have her son make a statement to police therefore your example is not really relevant i.e he was not called into court and confirmed the story therefore committing perjury

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Verdi on 01.05.16 23:27

@Richard D. Hall wrote:I am not speculating whether or not the Smiths would talk to GA again.  I am hoping that GA would attempt to contact them as part of his new analysis of the timeline.  I realise that anybody that is contacted as part of any journalistic investigation is at liberty to ignore you.  I don't really see the point in pointing out that the Smiths do not have to talk.  We all know that.  I am hoping that as part of the new timeline book, he attempts to get people to talk to him as a journalist, rather than just refer to the police files.  The Smith evidence is unresolved IMO and has had further twists and turns since he was involved.
This is the difficulty here isn't it?  Goncalo Amaral was assigned coordinator to the investigation conducted by the PJ into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.  His overseeing the case lasted but 4 - 5 months, effectively that is the extent of his involvement - what is now being discussed circa. 2016 is the result of months and years of studying and analysing the case files and ancillary documentation - Mr. Amaral didn't have that advantage when The Truth of the Lie was written.

Whilst I don't underestimate his professional ability, I do have to admit that any analysis of the case subsequent to the Portuguese archival process, must be second hand - so who is Mr. Amaral's informer in the UK.  I would like to think that officers of the law are providing the missing detail but I haven't seen a shred of evidence to suggest that he is cahoots with UK police - only his recent mention of support from the UK and internet rumour about UK police donating to the GoFundMe cause but again there is no proof as to the origin of that mysterious donation.

Mr. Amaral is no longer in a position to approach this case from a professional policing angle, he can only undertake any further work as a civilian with an interest in the case - as with the majority who have taken a strong interest.  In short, the PJ files are no longer the issue at stake - things have progressed considerably, not in terms of officially solving the case but in terms of the many areas of interest that have since been discovered so, if Mr. Amaral is to proceed with  a public profile as regards this case, it's imperative that he has a reliable source of information - without that he could end up looking extremely ridiculous.  As it stands, it would appear he intends to further scrutinize the timeline that was presented to the PJ in May 2007 which has since proved to be useless - pure invention by the McCanns and their group of friends.

I just hope he knows what he's doing - Portugal, his own territory no problem but this is the UK with enigmas like Operation Grange to challenge.

NB:  Hope this makes sense.  My laptops having another tantrum.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by aquila on 01.05.16 23:29

@HKP wrote:
@Mirage wrote:I don't want to get into the Smith sighting palaver. However, I just wanted to say in response to HKP (without drawing down all the associated quote) that KH certainly had no compunction in coming out with that cock and bull story about the school bus which implicated her son. And this was done quite brazenly in a courtroom.

It's just an observation about the vagaries of human behaviour when in a bit of a fix.
Sorry Mirage but KM didn't have her son make a statement to police therefore your example is not really relevant i.e he was not called into court and confirmed the story therefore committing perjury
Oh HKP, no-one of any credibility was called into the Portuguese court by Team McCann.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Mirage on 01.05.16 23:36

@aquila wrote:
@Mirage wrote:I don't want to get into the Smith sighting palaver. However, I just wanted to say in response to HKP (without drawing down all the associated quote) that KH certainly had no compunction in coming out with a cock and bull story about her son and the school bus in a courtroom.

It's just an observation about the vagaries of human behaviour when in a bit of a fix.
I'd love someone to quote the precise radio programme, apparently aired on school-run time on a school bus with all the kids sitting ever so quietly so they could listen to the news.
Exactly. And you have to wonder at how this would have been received by the other parents, who in turn would have questioned their puzzled offspring,  who may or may not have formed an opinion of their classmate as a result. They may have challenged him or kept an awkward silence. Most unhealthy either way.


 Then there's the bus driver, who may or may not have a radio on. The  bus company, who may or may not have a view about driver concentration or awareness of behaviour/safety of his young charges. The teachers will also have become aware of this and discussed the implausibility of the whole thing.


 Finally, for anyone to be talking of GA's theories on a British radio station during the years of Omerta is inconceivable.

All in all, a provable lie, but the onus shifted onto a child's shoulders. Just dreadful.

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