Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Nuala wrote:@ Tony Bennett

Does the above mean we are looking at THREE separate items of data that were delivered to D C Martin, the Hampshire Police Officer? - namely:

1. A disk supplied by Gerry McCann
2. A disk supplied by Martin Wright, and
3. Other images, 'dated 8 May'?

No, what's dated 8th May is the receipts for the disks delivered by GM and MW.

So there are only two items of data, plus a receipt for each item.

BLACK AND WHITE (NOT GREY SCALE) Page   Rotate  Image Scarlet Payne baby, dark hair + clip..white jumpsuit page 556, 586a, 588a, 590b,  594a c, 597c, 603b, 604a, 608c with DP + tunnel toy, 612 a, 613 556-T   R-90   Adult with baby; upstairs 556-B   R-90   Adult with baby; upstairs 557-T   180    Child in teddy bear shirt 557-BL  R-90   DP with children on lap 557-BR  R-90   DP with children on lap 558-TL  0      Seated baby 558-TR  0      Child at patio door lock 558-B   R-90   Child at patio door 559-TL  0      Girl, sunglasses, juice, food, crossword, towel 559-TR  0      JT with baby; upstairs balcony 559-B   R-90   DP with child in lap at table 560-T   180    DP with children in lap 560-BL  R-90   DP with child in lap 560-BR  R-90   DP with child in lap 561-TL  0      Adult with baby; upstairs 561-TR  L-90   FP & DW with children; upstairs 561-B   R-90   DW with baby; upstairs 562-T   ????   Almost totally black 562-B   ???? Child in pyjamas/sheet? with small animals design 563-T   0  Child in teddy bear shirt (dupl 557-T) 563-B   0   Adult on upstairs balcony 564     0    Adults with children at table in flat 565 to 572  Greyscale Tapas group 08-OUTROS APENSOS 8 VOLUME 3 Pages 565  to 572 GREY SCALE IMAGES 568-T   R-90   Girl, sunglasses, juice, food, crossword, towel (dupl 559-TL) 568-B   R-90   JT with baby; upstairs balcony (dupl 559-TR) 569-T   0      Sunrise?; large cloud; upstairs balcony 569-B   0      Child; sunglasses; juice; food 570-B   0      Tapas vista; upstairs 573 to 583 Pictures of Tapas group 584 Blank page 08-OUTROS APENSOS 8 VOLUME 3 Pages 573  to 584 BLACK AND WHITE (NO GREY SCALE) 573-T   0      Rooftop vista 573-B   0      Main swimming pool 574-T   0      Adult seated; upstairs balcony 574-B   R-90   Child standing at upstairs balcony railing 575-T   R-90   Doorway? 575-B   R-90   FP close-up?; upstairs balcony 576-T   R-90   Child in starry pyjamas/shirt? 576-B   R-90   Child in starry pyjamas/shirt (close-up) 577     ????   ???? NO IDEA ???? Madeleine: pink tracksuit, seen with Lily . Pages: 578c running, 587a, 588b,   ??? 591a, 599b, 599c, 608b, 609a, 601b  Lily, pinky striped top, blue jeans   seen with Maddy pages: 578c running, 585 with Gerry, 588b, 591a, 593a, 599b, 601b, 602a, 608b, 609a,610a, 612b 578-TL  ????   ???? NO IDEA ???? 578-TR  ????   Child in pyjamas/sheet? with small animals design (dupl 562-B) Elli : dress + joggers, fluffly long fair hair,   page 578c far right, 591a, 597, 602b, 610b Grace Oldfield :  dark bob haircut, bold striped top.  page: 578c, 589a, 590a, 591a, 592a with Matt, 593b, 596a, 602b, 603c, 604c,  606b, 608a with Matt sandals + beach shorts, 610b, 611a, 612 (b), 614 (b) Sean, airport clothes, olive green striped top, pale trousers, Page: 578c (crouching), 591a, b, 597a,  606a 608b, 614a, Gerry Matt Fiona p 578c, 591a, Jane 602c? 578-B   0      Adults & children in play area ================ PDF Apenso  Desc.     582-583 MISSING PAGE NUMBERSG PAGE NUMBERS 45  584     Blank page

585 to 618 Pictures of Tapas group 619 Blank page 08-OUTROS APENSOS 8 VOLUME 3 Pages 585  to 618 Group (2) Ocean Club BLACK AND WHITE (NOT GREY SCALE) Page   Rotate  Image  Elli (fair ) and Evie (baby, dark hair )  OBrien family, page  585a,  600c, 602b, 585-T  0       Male adult with two (three?) children next to kiddies (round) pool 585-B  R-90    Adult swinging child in play area 586-T  R-90    Close-up of child 586-B  R-90    Adult, possibly with child, in play area 587-T  R-90    Adult close-up Page 587 Page 587 Amelie's backside in playhouse, maroon top and pink-white dacks, 587a 599c MBM   587-B  R-90    MBM in play area; arched doorway 588-T  R-90    Small child (baby?) holding up arms Page_588 Page 588- MBM taken in Portugal at 17:15 on Wednesday May 2, 2007   588-B  0       MBM and other child in play area  Unidentified blonde girl with bob haircut,  589a,b,  604b,  with Grace 604c 589-T  0       Two children; close-up 589-B  0       Close-up of child 590-T  R-90    [Very unclear] possibly MBM in front of arched doorway 590-B  R-90    Close-up of child standing next to adult 591-T  0       Play area; three adults; four children (dupl 578-B)    591-B  R-90    Child (MBM?) in play area 592-T  R-90    Child with adult 592-B  R-90    Child with adult 5  R-90    Child on slide 593-B  R-90    Child on slide 594-TL L-90    Adult(s) with child(ren); Paraiso 594-TR 0       Fence next to road? 594-B  R-90    Child next to fence 595-T  180     Tennis; 4 men; one serving far end  595-BL R-90    Tennis; tele-lens of serve follow-through 595-BR R-90    Tennis; tele-lens of server in 595-T 596-TL 0       Two children standing at fence 596-TR 0       Adult hand/arm tossing tennis ball? 596-B  0       Adult/child seated in front of water/paving?  597-T  L-90    Adult/child with Block 4 in background 597-BL R-90    Tennis; 4 females 597-BR R-90    Baby lying on grass 598-TL ????    ???? NO IDEA ???? 598-TR L-90    Baby crawling on paving? 598-B  R-90    Baby seated Amelie's backside in playhouse, maroon top and pink-white dacks, 587a, 599c 599-BL 180     Adult male close-up;  601-TR 0       Adult with MBM and other child; play area  ?? 601-B  0       Tennis; Adult (right); child (left); tent? 602-TL 0       Child standing with arms out 602-TR L-90    Adults/children near kiddies pool 602-B  R-90    Adult with baby/small child 603-TL 0       Adult head (left); child (right) 603-TR l-90    Adult & child romping on grass? 603-B  R-90    Child in play area 607  MISSING PAGE NUMBER Page 608  Family handout photo dated 02/05/2007 of Gerry McCannplaying with his children (left to right) Madeleine and Sean(laughing) the day before Madeleine went missing on the evening of May 3. 608-TL L-90    Play area; 'Playground man' ================ PDF Apenso  Desc. 79  619     Blank page

620 to 658 Pictures of Tapas group 08-OUTROS APENSOS 8 VOLUME 3 Pages 620  to 658 Group (3) Beach BLACK AND WHITE (NOT GREY SCALE) Page   Rotate  Image 620-T  R-90    Child on beach? (very obscure) 620-B  0       Paraiso  621-T  R-90    Adult/child on beach 621-B  R-90    Child on beach 622-T  0  Shirt with Blue Peter insignia? (very obscure) 622-B  0  Shirt with Blue Peter insignia, and child in floral dress? (very obscure) 623-T  R-90    Adult standing with child in floral dress 623-B  0       Child in short-sleeved dress 624-T  R-90    Adult with child at water's edge 624-B  R-90    Child in sleeveless vest 625-T  R-90    Adult with baby 625-B  R-90    Child with sand spade 626-T  0       Adults with children at water's edge 626-B  R-90    Adult with baby in floral dress 627-T  R-90    Adult with baby in floral dress 627-B  R-90    Adult male with child 628-T  R-90    Adult female holding baby 628-B  0    Adult with baby in floral dress; passers-by near water 629-T  R-90    Child in sleeveless vest 629-B  0       Adult female holding baby (wide-shot) 630-T  R-90    Small child standing in front of adult's legs 630-B  R-90    Small child held on adult's hip; passer-by in background 631-T  0       Small child/baby on sand 631-B  R-90    Child (foreground); Adult female behind 632-T  0       Baby (floral dress) on sand 632-B  0       Adults and child 633-T  0       Adults and children seated on sand 633-B  R-90    Two adults standing on sand 634-T  ????    ???? NO IDEA ???? (totally obscure) 634-B  R-90    Silhouette at water's edge 635-T  R-90    Child in sleeveless vest 635-B  R-90    Baby (floral) with sun hat 636-TL 0       Baby (sun hat) and child (vest) 636-TR 0       Baby (floral) with sun hat  636-B  0       Two men (not holiday group?) 637-TL ????    ???? Too obscure ????  637-TR L-90    Adult with baby (floral) on sand  644-TL 0       Adult with child paddling 644-TR 0       Adult with cliff in background 644-B  R-90    Adult 645-B  0       Baby sitting on sand 646-B  R-90    Baby on blanket 647-T  R-90    Child with 'Cheeky' T-shirt (Payne?) 651-TR L-90    Baby with bucket? on head 651-B  0       People near water (obscure) 653  MISSING PAGE NUMBER (numbers in PDF truncated) 655-T  R-90    Adult and child standing 655-B  R-90    Adult and child standing

TheTruthWillOut wrote:Tony I think you are mixing up what GM/MW did in Portugal (handing in 2 CDs of compiled photos to the PJ) and what LP/HP did with the Fosters cameras in England. They were both happening on and around the 8th May but were separate.

I don't think any discs from Portugal were sent to Hampshire/DC Martin. He did produce a disc of images found on the Fosters camera that eventually made its way to the PJ but aren't in the files AFAIK. 

PeterMac wrote:What they forgot is that the Met Office reports and many other photos taken by other holiday makers during that week show conclusively that most of the dates and times given for photos allegedly taken by the McCanns are wrong.  

tigger@MMM wrote:I often don't read comments so here is the solution to the Foster family photos: copy of my own comment.

The analysis of photos by DC Stuart William Martin in Hampshire and the confusion which has arisen and persisted are hereby explained - my apologies. I will post this up with the references and quotes at a later date. 

For the moment a short timeline will suffice: 

8/5/07 Leicester police phone Mr. Foster in the morning and email (presumably Hampshire Constabulary) to ask them to send an officer to Mrs. Foster who will hand him the camera and video to analyse and download. 

8/5/07 DC Martin receives the camera and video at 9.00 pm. 

9/5/07 DC Martin delivers a CD to Hampshire police together with the above equipment. at 8.30 am. 

9/5/07 Gerry McCann and M. Wright give the PJ two DVDs which they have compiled themselves with assorted holiday photos. 

23/5/07 PJ officer Paiva notes the content of the analysed photos from the Foster family. As anonymous has posted above. 

But not untill the 22nd of May did the call for photographs go out - at a press conference by Gerry McCann and on the same day BBC News posted it online. 

Consequently the Foster family could not have reacted to the call for photographs. 

The existence of two cameras in the McCann apartment is therefore highly unlikely. However, this has little influence on the question of the printing of the first photo, in which the Olympus was ruled out in any case. Since there was only the Canon and even if one could explain a set of two photographs being given out well before midnight, the combined timings and statements from several witnesses forming a fairly clear chain of evidence. 

It also appears that none of the photographs sent to CEOP dedicated website were passed to the PJ. Something else to consider in the overall confusion. 

Nuala wrote:@ Tony Bennett

Just going back to this bit for a moment:

Or could it have been deliberately placed there (but with the memory card removed and replaced), as means of saying: "Look! We've nothing to hide. See! We've just left our camera casually on the table".

I'm wondering why you would think they would think about and take care of a detail such as a camera on a table to mislead but then bungle the jemmied shutters, made up bed, inconsistent timelines and twins in sheetless cots?

Nuala wrote:If MM died earlier in the week, they had time to achieve more than the considerable amount that was achieved in 90 minutes in the Stuart Lubbock case, they had days to do it.

Nuala wrote:The point I was making was that in the Stuart Lubbock case, you said and indeed listed, the considerable amount done to transform the crime scene in 90 minutes.

Nuala wrote:@ Tony Bennett

Really? You've lost me there, Nuala. What more, precisely, could they have done?  (if they did, that is)

I'm sorry, I couldn't have made myself clear.

No, you did make yourself clear, but I was asking you specifically, given that you didn't think the McCanns did very well with an alleged abduction hoax, what MORE you think they could have done (i.e. to convince people that Madeleine had been abducted). It was a genuine question. To put it another way, Nuala, if you had been in the same situation, and needed to promote a hoax abduction, what more could you have done than the McCanns did (if that is what they did)  

The point I was making was that in the Stuart Lubbock case, you said and indeed listed, the considerable amount done to transform the crime scene in 90 minutes.

If MM died earlier in the week, say 30th April, the McCanns had three whole days to plan and execute a credible "abduction" and yet the shutters weren't jemmied, there was no sign of a break in, the twins were in cots without sheets, a couple of timelines had been scribbled on MM's sticker book covers, the bed where MM was supposedly abducted from was laid out in a way that obviously a child hadn't been abducted from it.

I would have expected in three days that at least the shutters would would show some signs of damage and the bed arranged properly.  Some signs of a break in, removing some of their possessions to make it look like someone had broken in and stolen some stuff and then also abducted MM?

Instead, with three days to plan an "abduction" they did nothing credible at all.

Right, you say that, but the fact remains that, whatever e.g. the government, the security services and the mass media may have done to assist the McCanns one way or another since 3 May, the abduction account as told by the McCanns and the Tapas 7 has lasted for over 8 years and continues to lodge deep in the minds of much of the British public.

Let me just list what the McCanns set before us all (or had available to them), to help us to understand that an abduction had taken place:

1. An explanation for the 'checking' regime, which they say was maintained all week
2. An account (by Mrs Fenn) of a child crying. Mrs Fenn insisted it was a child who had reached its third birthday, you could tell by the voice (1)
3. The 'Last Photo' - proof she was alive at 2.29pm on 3 May
4. Philip Edmonds' photo of his boys playing on 3 May with Madeleine in the background
5. The 'high tea' at 5.30pm, with Cat Baker and Charlotte Pennington in attendance
6. David Payne seeing all the children in the McCanns' apartment looking happy and 'angelic'
7. Kate remembering she'd removed the hair bead from Madeleine's hair when she bather her that night (the hair bead in the Last Photo) 
8. Matt Oldfield's check at 9pm - all OK
9. Gerry McCann's check at 9.05pm to 9.10pm - all OK
10. Matt Oldfield's check at 9.30pm - all OK, but, but, door open 50 degrees, hmmm, maybe a bit more light coming in, hmmm, could be the window was open, hmmm, light coming in 'from the front', hmmm again and oh dear, didn't actually see Madeleine, hmmm, hmmm - abductor might have come in and gone between 9.10pm and 9.30pm     
11. Madeleine gone - alarm raised
The Crime Scene
12. Shutters partly raised
13. Window partly raised - Kate's fingerprints on window-frame
14. 'The shutters and windows were closed all week' - to keep out the heat
15. Curtains partly open - 'whooshed by the wind' 
16. Madeleine's bed sheet turned back which suggests she had been removed
17. Pink blanket
18. Cuddle Cat, left by the abductor just by the pillow 'where it normal is when Maddie is sleeping' [Truth of the Lie] 
19. Jane Tanner with ready-made abductor based on Wojcek Krokowski
20. Nuno Lourenco lined up to speak to police Saturday morning and describe bloke looking like Wojeck Krokowski who tried to kidnap his child.

Twenty elements - and more that I haven't mentioned - quite enough to keep the story going for 8 years and occupy Operation Grange for half that time pursuing the remit of investigating 'the' abduction.

Just supposing for a moment that this was not an abduction but that there was a planned abduction hoax, surely all the above elements were a pretty fair attempt at a 'cover story', weren't they?   



     

   



    

Nuala wrote:@ Tony Bennett

I've just realised I'm bombarding you with posts.

Apologies for that, I didn't mean to.
I'm not picking on you, it's just there's so much to discuss and I got a bit carried away 

Verdi wrote:

Nuala, were you/are you actively involved with this case in an official capacity?  A simple yes or no would suffice if you feel inclined to reply.  My reason for asking is that you speak with some authority and I don't want to waste my time researching different aspects of the case if you can supply the answers.

Tony Bennett wrote:

Verdi wrote:

Nuala, were you/are you actively involved with this case in an official capacity?  A simple yes or no would suffice if you feel inclined to reply.  My reason for asking is that you speak with some authority and I don't want to waste my time researching different aspects of the case if you can supply the answers.

I had (and still have) no idea who Nuala is, having never, if memory serves, having come across her previously, but again IIRC someone on a forum or on FB somewhere said recently that Nuala was originally a very forceful 'pro-McCann' - but somewhere along the line changed to being a McCann-doubter.

I hope I have got that right, sincere apologies if I haven't

PeterMac wrote:Whoever it is would do well to read the Last Photo thread, where most of the questions have been answered.

plebgate wrote:

PeterMac wrote:Whoever it is would do well to read the Last Photo thread, where most of the questions have been answered.

What a very sensible idea.
[ Here is the main, recent, 'Last Photo' thread:
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t3645p1050-further-analysis-of-the-last-photo
There are, however, 1,054 posts on it to wade through.

To summarise this 106-page thread, the balance of opinion was that there was very good evidence that the 'Last Photo' was not photoshopped at all, but taken on Sunday 29 April 2007 with the metadata subsequently changed to read '2.29pm, 3rd May 2007'  - Mod. ]

Ladyinred wrote:

Tony Bennett wrote:

Verdi wrote:

Nuala, were you/are you actively involved with this case in an official capacity?  A simple yes or no would suffice if you feel inclined to reply.  My reason for asking is that you speak with some authority and I don't want to waste my time researching different aspects of the case if you can supply the answers.

I had (and still have) no idea who Nuala is, having never, if memory serves, having come across her previously, but again IIRC someone on a forum or on FB somewhere said recently that Nuala was originally a very forceful 'pro-McCann' - but somewhere along the line changed to being a McCann-doubter.

I hope I have got that right, sincere apologies if I haven't

See jeanmonroe's posts on page 56 of the Steve Marsden thread.



[Nuala is not the other Nuala who used to support the McCanns - from the Wayback thread:

Nuala @ jeanmonroe

So that's NOT you, the 'Nuala', who 'began as their (McCanns') supporter,

No, that's not me.

who left that 'comment' then?

No idea, and neither do I care.  - Mod.]