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Is it possible that Madeleine slept in a travel cot and had an accident relating to this?

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Is it possible that Madeleine slept in a travel cot and had an accident relating to this?

Post by Joannep43 on 07.06.15 19:21

I'm new to the forum so please excuse me if this question has been discussed before.Is it possible that Madeleine slept in a travel cot and had an accident relating to this? There are a few reasons I ask this. I always thought the bed she was" abducted" from looked staged.I remember reading in Kate's book that the family had story time the night she went missing and they all sat on Madeleine's bed.In my opinion when looking at the PJ photographs of her bed it looks quite tidy for so many to have been sitting on earlier.My next reason is Kate admitted that she slept in the other bed one night in the children's room,as she was in a huff or whatever with Gerry.This bed Kate slept in is clearly shown on the PJ photographs unmade and untidy.Was this left this way to reiterate that Madeleine slept in her "bed" and the tale of Kate in a huff made up?Another reason I a believe this to be possible is because we are told they left the children night after night while at the tapas bar.madeleine was known to wake up and wander as children do ,so was the travel cot used to prevent this.Also in her first PJ statement Kate said they were given 3 travel cots but one was given to Fiona.Is that true? Lastly I read in the PJ files that a cleaner at the ocean club said one of the travel cots was in the mc canons bedroom,but was not on the PJ photos.I may be barking up the wrong tree here,but what do other members think?

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Re: Is it possible that Madeleine slept in a travel cot and had an accident relating to this?

Post by Tony Bennett on 07.06.15 20:01

@Joannep43 wrote:I'm new to the forum so please excuse me if this question has been discussed before.Is it possible that Madeleine slept in a travel cot and had an accident relating to this? There are a few reasons I ask this. I always thought the bed she was" abducted" from looked staged.I remember reading in Kate's book that the family had story time the night she went missing and they all sat on Madeleine's bed.In my opinion when looking at the PJ photographs of her bed it looks quite tidy for so many to have been sitting on earlier.My next reason is Kate admitted that she slept in the other bed one night in the children's room,as she was in a huff or whatever with Gerry.This bed Kate slept in is clearly shown on the PJ photographs unmade and untidy.Was this left this way to reiterate that Madeleine slept in her "bed" and the tale of Kate in a huff made up?Another reason I a believe this to be possible is because we are told they left the children night after night while at the tapas bar.madeleine was known to wake up and wander as children do ,so was the travel cot used to prevent this.Also in her first PJ statement Kate said they were given 3 travel cots but one was given to Fiona.Is that true? Lastly I read in the PJ files that a cleaner at the ocean club said one of the travel cots was in the mc canons bedroom,but was not  on the PJ photos.I may be barking up the wrong tree here,but what do other members think?

@Joannep43 wrote:I'm new to the forum so please excuse me if this question has been discussed before.

REPLY: It has been discussed before but that doesn't matter at all, any sincere question is welcome here.

Is it possible that Madeleine slept in a travel cot and had an accident relating to this?

REPLY: I consider that most unlikely because, if that had had happened, surely the McCanns would have called the ambulance service for assistance.

There are a few reasons I ask this. I always thought the bed she was" abducted" from looked staged.

REPLY: That may be a very perceptive comment, because in the Portuguese Police's interim report of 10 September 2007 - the day aftr the McCanns returned home from Portugal, a senior inspector wrote this:

"There is strong evidence that the crime scene was altered, and some furniture was moved around. Those changes are indications that the abduction was a stage-managed simulation".

There is also a long section of Dr Amaral's book 'The TRuth About A Lie' dealing with this very issue and he gives more details in support of his inspector's conclusions. You can read his book in English on this forum and other websites. I can't really say myself what I think, but let's just put it this way, there is evidence to support your suggestion.

I remember reading in Kate's book that the family had story time the night she went missing and they all sat on Madeleine's bed. In my opinion when looking at the PJ photographs of her bed it looks quite tidy for so many to have been sitting on earlier. My next reason is Kate admitted that she slept in the other bed one night in the children's room, as she was in a huff or whatever with Gerry. This bed Kate slept in is clearly shown on the PJ photographs unmade and untidy. Was this left this way to reiterate that Madeleine slept in her 'bed' and the tale of Kate in a huff made up?

REPLY: All very good and perceptive observations IMO, in line with the report of the Portugese inspector and Goncalo Amaral's bar.

Another reason I believe this to be possible is because we are told they left the children night after night while at the Tapas bar.

REPLY: Yes, we are told this by the McCanns and their friends, but is it true? There is quite a bit of evidence that they did not leave the children night after night - at all. One senior Portuguese Police officer said there was evidence that the children were all being looked after by one or other of the adults in the party each night.

Madeleine was known to wake up and wander as children do, so was the travel cot used to prevent this? Also in her first PJ statement Kate said they were given 3 travel cots but one was given to Fiona. Is that true?

Lastly I read in the PJ files that a cleaner at the ocean club said one of the travel cots was in the McCanns' bedroom, but was not on the PJ photos. I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but what do other members think?

REPLY: It is quite a long time since I looked at these two particular issues, but hopefully a more knowledgeable forum member who is up to speed with these factual issues will be along later to help you.

Keep asking good questions - we won't bite your head off

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                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


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Re: Is it possible that Madeleine slept in a travel cot and had an accident relating to this?

Post by Joannep43 on 07.06.15 20:19

Thanks for your kind reply Tony.I just think that so much emphasis has been put on Madeleines bed and quite rightly so as this is the bed she was" taken "from.Another thing what bothers me is the crying incident Mrs Fenn heard.In her statement Mrs Fenn never went into detail regarding the crying.Was this crying coming form one area of 5a or did she hear the crying of a child running around frantically looking for her parents( as children that age would do)?Again if you can see what I'm trying to say.

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Crying

Post by Guest on 07.06.15 20:25

@Joannep43 wrote:Thanks for your kind reply Tony.I just think that so much emphasis has been put on Madeleines  bed and quite rightly so as this is the bed she was" taken "from.Another thing what bothers me is the crying incident Mrs Fenn heard.In her statement Mrs Fenn never went into detail regarding the crying.Was this crying coming form one area of 5a or did she hear the  crying of a child running around frantically looking for her parents( as children that age would do)?Again if you can see what I'm trying to say.
http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/search?search_keywords=crying

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Re: Is it possible that Madeleine slept in a travel cot and had an accident relating to this?

Post by Joannep43 on 07.06.15 20:43

Thanks for the link ladyinred,so much to read lol!

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Re: Is it possible that Madeleine slept in a travel cot and had an accident relating to this?

Post by Doug D on 07.06.15 21:30

Joannep43,
 
The two bits at the end TB did not respond to.
 
Good (Steel Magnolia) blog with lots of links about the cots, including the maids statement that two cots were brought into the apartment on the Saturday when she was preparing it and that when she was cleaning later in the week, there was one in the parents bedroom and one in the other bedroom:
 
http://thetapas9katemccann.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/kate-mccann-moving-cots-to-stage.html
 
No mention of the ‘third’ cot that went to FP by the time the bewk came out. (P.45)
 
4th May Statement:
 
‘plus two cots on loan’
 
6th September:
 
‘When questioned about the apartment’s layout, she said that on the first day the moved the furniture: they moved the two cots out of their bedroom and put them in the other one, where the children were to sleep, after they pushed the two single beds in that bedroom apart. They also pushed the two single beds in their bedroom together. She presumes that the cots, when in their bedroom, were at the beds’ bottom.
 
She mentions that when she arrived there not two, but three cots, in the same spot, and she believes that one was lent to the Payne family.’
 
The holiday booking form requested an extra bed for DW against the Payne’s and a note under the Mc’s :
 
‘Please request 3 extra cots for Miss L Payne, Ma S and Miss A McCann’ so it should have been pretty clear to the person setting up the rooms what cots were wanted and where, but we do not know for sure. Also the Paynes cot would have been for S not L which is an odd mistake for the Payne’s to have made as they made the booking.
 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P2/02_VOLUME_IIa_Page_335.jpg

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Re: Is it possible that Madeleine slept in a travel cot and had an accident relating to this?

Post by Tony Bennett on 07.06.15 22:06

@Joannep43 wrote:Thanks for your kind reply Tony. I just think that so much emphasis has been put on Madeleine's bed and quite rightly so as this is the bed she was 'taken' from. Another thing what bothers me is the crying incident Mrs Fenn heard. In her statement Mrs Fenn never went into detail regarding the crying. Was this crying coming form one area of 5a or did she hear the crying of a child running around frantically looking for her parents (as children that age would do)? Again if you can see what I'm trying to say.
@ Joannep43

A piece of advice. In this dark, mysterious case full of lies, evasions, half-truths, deceptions and secrets, do not take ANY witness statement in this case at face value. Except perhaps that of Martin Grime - and that is really more to be classed as an 'expert report' than a witness statement.

There is a major, major question mark about whether Mrs Pamela Fenn was telling the truth.

For years I struggled to work out why Mrs Fenn said she heard the crying on the night of Tuesday night, May 1st, which the McCanns and their friends completely denied, whilst the McCanns actually admitted - in effect - that both Madeleine and Sean may have been crying on the night of Wednesday May 2nd. They gave an unconvincing account of how Madeleine at breakfast-time said matter-of-factly: 'Where were you when Sean and I were crying last night?", and then waltzed off to play.

All sorts of explanations have been put forward over the years for this apparent discrepancy. 

But if I may say so, you have made another very good point when you wrote: "Mrs Fenn never went into detail regarding the crying".

Now in general terms, you are quite right, which is why I say it's a good point.

However, there is one remarkable exception to this - the exception that proves the rule, I would say.

Mrs Fenn claimed that she could 'tell' that the crying came from a child who had already reached its third birthday.

Personally, I don't buy that for one second.

Another point to reflect on - Mrs Fenn claimed to have heard Madeleine crying for 75 minutes, sobbing her heart out and crying 'Daddy', 'Daddy' ever louder all the time. 

Quite apart from that being a highly unusual occurrence...

...why did not one single other residemt, holdaymaker or staff member hear this?

Don't set the 'crying incident' in concrete as you try to build up a timeline of what really happened that week

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Re: Is it possible that Madeleine slept in a travel cot and had an accident relating to this?

Post by Joannep43 on 07.06.15 22:42

Thanks Doug d for your reply.
Tony I now understand ,it's easy to believe what is in some statements and II suppose we need to read between the lines as such with some of them.It's so difficult with so much information in them to decide what maybe fact or fiction.I am aware of the dogs and their alerts and for me they told us a story .I believe they alerted too many times for coincidence to come into it..The evidence from the dogs is something imo that can't be disputed .Unless some dog whisperer can prove there is a telepathic language between those dogs which has not yet been discovered ,from which they then decided between themselves to set up the McCanns.The dogs evidence started my interest in this case .

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Re: Is it possible that Madeleine slept in a travel cot and had an accident relating to this?

Post by Tony Bennett on 07.06.15 23:06

Joannep43
The evidence from the dogs is something imo that can't be disputed...
The dogs' evidence HAS been disputed by both Dr Gerald and Dr Kate McCann - but for quite different reasons.

Dr Gerald dismisses all these sniffer dogs as 'incredibly unreliable'.

Whereas, by contrast, Dr Kate explains the dogs' alerts as due to the 'conscious or unsconscious signals of the handler'. This of course amounts to a full-frontal attack on the professional competence of Martin Grime, the dog handler, who was head-hunted by the F.B.I. after taking his dogs to Praia da Luz - and now works for them.

Dr Kate's attack on him makes him out to be no better than an incompetent buffoon

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Re: Is it possible that Madeleine slept in a travel cot and had an accident relating to this?

Post by Joannep43 on 07.06.15 23:16

Well obviously the Mc Canns must be experts on everything ,I hope they have let the F.B.I know of their findings.I watched the video where they are interviewed by Sandra (can't remember her surname) .I remember Gerry said they were incredibly unreliable and then went on to say "ask the dogs".Says it all really!

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