Faith in Op Grange

Angelique wrote:

Ladyinred wrote:Thanks for your response, Angelique.  I'm a little confused (it's very late for me to be still awake), could you be more specific?

Hello again Ladyinred

Sorry if I was being too brief. 

I think someone else within the group was responsible for what happened to Madeleine. Although GA said, at the time he was in charge of investigation, that Madeleine had suffered an accident and fell off the sofa in the apartment and landed on the floor undiscovered until too late. I don't believe this and maybe GA will think differently now, who knows. With what he has already gone through and is going through as we speak he must have some inkling of what he is up against, not just the McCanns. He has even suggested it's Political. So he does know. I also think that Gerry's "smirking" although it looks like "dupers delight" - well, yes in a way it is, but it's because he knows he is untouchable, they both are IMO.

As the person involved in whatever happened to Madeleine whoever it is, is important, the whole HMG machinery swung into action and arrived very quickly on the scene. This does not happen for the normal holiday-maker. As we have seen and continue to see no matter what evidence anyone has it will be destroyed or discredited, in the case of the dogs, totally ignored. I do think that whatever happened to Madeleine happened before May 3rd. It would necessarily have taken some time even for HMG to get all necessary people on board. For some reason they decided on a course of action that required K & G to state that Madeleine had been abducted. I think this is the bit that I don't like, if I am right in what I think it is about.  I can't put it into this reply in words but I think it relates to The Fund if you see what I mean. They had to be In front of the cameras, reporting, pleading, etc. How else could they have The Fund?

I hope this explains my theory of what I think happened. 

David Payne's behaviour following the alleged 'abduction' was suspicious, imo. Also one of his witness statements was over-embellished to a degree whereby it was hugely incriminating I think. All three McCann children dressed in white looking like angels early on that fateful Thursday evening, or words to that effect? All the children looking so happy and well-cared for? This is just too much over-egging. It does not ring true at all. 

A truthful witness statement would be much more factual and less emotive as the witness would want to help the police as much as possible with facts that might be vital for the investigation. 

Then there are the Gasper statements and Mrs Gasper's concern about David Payne being on that fateful holiday. And social worker Yvonne Fletcher's statement and concern about David Payne. Asking police to check whether he was on the sex offenders register, I do believe?

Quite a few red flags in that direction. Not to mention, of course, the alleged early evening 'visit' by David Payne to the McCann apartment during which Kate is wrapped in a towel, so we are lead to believe. Crucial timing here as it was just a few hours before Madeleine's alleged abduction and also crucial in that it makes David Payne the last person who was not a family member to see Madeleine. Therefore making David Payne a very important eye-witness as well as a potential suspect. 

David Payne during his late afternoon/early evening visit to apartment 5A also allegedly offers to help bring the McCann children to the playground. Even though this was allegedly when the male Tapasniks were playing social tennis. Kate's account of this visit is also suspicious I think.

Then there is the 'pact of silence' comment. 

And of course there is the 100 second phone call to the Met Police child abuse team on the evening after Madeleine's alleged abduction which he appears to have forgotten about. Was this some kind of damage limitation/finger pointing exercise before the heavy guns came in to protect TM, I wonder?

Would be interesting to know a bit more about David Payne's background and career. I wonder if he still works as a registrar in the Trent region? In his police statement he says that he had worked at Leicester General Hospital for two years  and had recently taken up a post at Derby Hospital.

http://thetapas9drdavidpayne.blogspot.co.uk/

http://www.kgh.nhs.uk/about-us/news/laparoscopic-keyhole-surgery/

http://www.ramsayhealth.co.uk/consultants/woodland-hospital/urology/mr-david-payne

sharonl wrote: 

That explains a lot. So the world revolves around the Sun?

This is shocking, I can see where Mitchell fits in but where does Gamble fit in? 

Back to 2006/7 when Missing People were failing fast, in need of a boost, Tony Blair was being questioned under caution in relation to the cash for honours scandal and the Murdoch Empire was struggling.

Blair, Mitchell, Gamble and McCann have all in some way linked themselves to that charity.. 

Rebekah Brooks was right when she said to Cameron, "we're all in this together", in what Rebekah?

It looks to me as though the (planned, faked) 'abduction' of Madeleine McCann was a pre-planned media (Govt?) hoax. The UK version of the Elizabeth Smart (faked) 'abduction' in the USA in 2002.   The idea being that the dubious charity 'Missing People' would be some kind of UK equivalent of the equally dubious USA organisation NCMEC.

It is a fact that both Gerry and Kate claim that they became involved in campaigning for the introduction of a coordinated child rescue alert system (CRA) within Europe. 

"It has always been part of our plan for the future of the Find Madeleine campaign to use our resources and the attention focused on us to try to save other children and their families from the same nightmare," writes Kate on page 290 of her book.

Kate also writes how (my emphasis in bold): "Madeleine's image had become almost iconic, the face that represented all missing children. Her plight had brought the whole issue into the spotlight, greatly increasing public awareness. That was something positive in itself. We realized that while the appetite for news of her (Madeleine) remained high, we should capitalize on the platform it gave us to help other missing and exploited children."

Kate and Gerry praise the Amber Alert system in the USA which Kate in her book claims is the 'gold standard in child rescue systems.' Gerry learnt about this alert system on a visit to the States  in the months following Madeleine's alleged abduction. And Kate and Gerry flew to Washington to visit NCMEC in March 2008. There is a hideously sycophantic televised meeting between Ernie Allen, head of the organisation, and Kate and Gerry during which they discuss the making of age-progressed pictures of Madeleine. (And remember that hideous smirk which Gerry failed to suppress at a press conference when the age-progressed pictures of Madeleine were released. Kate too, imo. suppresses a smirk.)

Kate also writes about how she and Gerry met Ed Smart, father of Elizabeth Smart who was allegedly stolen from her bed at night by a mystery intruder (sound familiar?). Kate also writes about how she and Gerry met Eizabeth herself.  Extraordinarily, imo, Kate writes how she was 'nervous' before this meeting. As though Kate was meeting a celebrity as opposed to the victim of a terrible crime. Notice, too, how extraordinarily photogenic Elizabeth Smart is. Every inch the blond golden girl, imo. And how Elizabeth's alleged captor - still in prison for his alleged crime? - could easily be passed off as one of the Madeleine McCann 'abductor sightings'. The ugly, old, crazy, wild haired Bogey-Man who steals pretty blond photogenic girls from their beds at night and spirits them away to a hellish liar.

Kate writes how she found Elizabeth Smart  "amazingly well-adjusted". This is despite media reports that Elizabeth was tied up  in a hellish liar and repeatedly raped by her captors. Remarkably, Elizabeth and her parents are all beaming as though they do not have a care in the world when photographed with President Bush after Elizabeth's terrible ordeal. You would think they had won the lottery, even.

It is a fact that in April 2008 Kate and Gerry went (back) to Brussels to the European Parliament to present a declaration to the MEPs and petition them to help with the establishment of a coordinated CRA. 

Ernie Allen, CEO of NCMEC was paid over $13 million salary and compensation in 2008, according to the report below. It is alleged that hundreds of the cases dealt with by his organization are, in fact, cases of missing children fraud.

Well, well, well. The McScam, McMitchell, McMurdoch, McB-LIAR 'wider agenda' perhaps? 'Good stories' to bury 'bad' news, methinks? Not to mention bury cases of child abuse covered up as cases of children 'going missing' or 'being abducted', perhaps?

Maybe even a good way for the state to cover up cases of vulnerable children - for instance in care homes or runaways from abusive families - 'going missing' who have been cruelly abused and exploited by the very people who are supposed to be protecting them. For instance: Elm Bank Guest House scandal where children were supplied by care homes to be abused by adults, some high profile.

It all STINKS. IMO of course.


http://pactofsilence.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/ernie-allen-missing-child-fraud.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2444192/Elizabeth-Smart-describes-kidnapping-hell-Boredom-hunger-rape.html

http://www.childlaw.us/protect_ncmec/

Interesting comments about the child "protection"/adoption industry racket:

http://www.childlaw.us/protect_ncmec/#comments

If the purpose of OG was to get to the truth then David Cameron and Theresa May would have wanted a 'result' by now to give them credibility over a good job well done to help their chances in this close run election. On the other hand if the purpose of OG was to hide the truth then David Cameron and Theresa May would be happy to leave office (if that's what happens) knowing that they did their bit whilst in office to 'keep the lid on'. Just a thought. I was generally optimistic but its gone on a bit hasn't it.

roy rovers wrote:

"Just a thought. I was generally optimistic but its gone on a bit hasn't it?"
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"WHAT", has 'gone on a bit'?

Certainly NOT 'personal' erm, 'searches', for Madeleine, by the McCanns, members of McCann and Healy 'families', the McCann 'friends' etc., has it?

KM 'wanders' about PDL, with ol' mother Hubbard, 'now and again', but she dosen't actually 'search' for her daughter, does she?

Can't remember the last time GM did any actual 'searching' in PDL, can you?

Has ANY 'family' member been to PDL to 'search'  for their 'missing' family member, since 2007?

Rhetorical!

Now, WHY, would that be, do you suppose?

IMO, 'they' all know, KNOW, exactly what 'happened' to their 'missing' family member.

She is either, 'brown bread', OR 'sitting in a luxury lair' somewhere, waiting to be 'revealed' at an opportune 'moment'.

The LACK of FAMILY 'searching' is a HUGE 'red flag' for me, personally.

A 3 years old family 'member' has 'disappeared'

What do the 'families' DO?

SIT AROUND THE OC 'POOL' AND TAKE 'ADVANTAGE' OF MW er, 'HOSPITALITY' FOR MONTHS, ENTIRELY 'GRATIS', AND THEN, A VERY SHORT FEW WEEKS, AFTER THE 'DISAPPEARANCE' OF A FAMILY MEMBER, BOTH AUNTS AND OTHER 'FAMILY'  MEMBERS GO 'ON HOLIDAY' TO TURKEY!

'FAMILY' MEMBERS 'ARE ALSO SENT PACKING', ON THE GRANNY 'EXPRESS' BACK TO THE UK WITHIN HOURS OF ARRIVAL IN PDL, DUE TO 'SOMETHING' THEY 'SAID' WHICH UPSET THE 'MISSING' CHILD'S FATHER!

The FAMILIES, know, KNOW, imo, EXACTLY, the 'fate' of Madeleine McCann, she IS 'either' .......'brown bread' OR 'totally unharmed, safe as houses, in a 'secret' location', (UK?) waiting to 'miraculously' FOUND. (possibly BY, an ex DCI from OG?)

The CONSTANT 'references', by the McCanns, ad nauseum, and their 'supporters', to children 'being 'found' YEARS after 'disappearing' is another 'red flag' to me.

These 'references' appeared, again, most recently in the 'should OG be closed?' er, debate.

Any number of 'commentators' referring to 'people found years later'



eta: What other 'explanation' can be 'given' for the palpably 'distinct' LACK of 'searching' for a 'missing' family memer, by the McCanns themselves, their families and 'friends'?

You know what- I am well and truly baffled as to why Mr. & Mrs. became such sort after "zlebs" by the media and fawned over by politicians and zlebs generally.

Yesterday on twitter we were reminded of the Police Bravery Awards ceremony where Mr. was invited to speak and was given a standing ovation (HRH Prince of Wales in attendance apparently) not sure I remember hearing that before.

They have held a gala dinner (even if zlebs preferred to use the back door), sat on the sofa a good few times, given permission to have their photographs taken in numerous outfits and looking extremely photogenic  blah blah blah.

Mrs. has become an ambassador for Missing People along with quite a few ITV presenters, what an honour!

How is all that possible I have to ask myself after admitting to leaving their three defenceless children alone night after night in a foreign land whilst they enjoyed themselves wining and dining with their friends?
Edited to add:
and one of their children, their eldest daughter disappeared and has not been seen or heard of since.
Why, why, why are they in such demand?

Puzzles me too, Plebgate. Is it something to do with that pair's brass neck, pushiness and colossal cheek which appears to disarm criticism by both media and public? That and the fact that, irrespective of their appalling lack of parental care, though they did 'lose' their elder daughter, they are portrayed in the press as soldiering on, on behalf of other missing children. Moreover, it is said over and over again, that they 'haven't given up hope' of finding Madeleine alive. The first bit of the above is most important I'd guess. Blame is always fixed elswhere. Attack is perhaps the best form of defence. After all these years I should be unshockable, but the whole shebang still amazes me.

plebgate wrote:You know what - I am well and truly baffled as to why Mr. & Mrs. became such sought after "zlebs" by the media and fawned over by politicians and zlebs generally...Why, why, why are they in such demand?

Because (?)...the messages about stranger abduction...about missing children...maybe how to protect them by schmees such as Amber Alert, microchipping...how nasty intertnet trolls can be to innocent people who have lost a child...why the internet needs to be controlled etc. etc...

...are all important messages the real powers-that-be behind the scenes want us to learn from this case...? 


PLUS the media have made a lot of money from this continuing mystery...

...and lawyers...

...and senior police officers...

Those 'elite, solely dedicated' super MET police detectives, at OG, must be gutted, absolutely gutted. not to be 'involved' with 'nicking the wrong 'uns' who took part in the biggest, possibly, jewellery/safe deposit boxes 'heist' in UK 'history'!

Instead, they are 'cooped up' in Belgravia Police station, 'reading', AGAIN, bits of paper, they have 'read' a thousand times before!

"A copper's lot is not a happy lot".......... especially if the copper is assigned to OG! (imo)

"Sorry marm, i can't investigate that killing/mugging/robbery/attempted child snatch/child abuse you just called in about, even though the crime was on my 'manor' I am a solely dedicated Maddie 'cop', sorry"

How 'embarrassed' would  a MET detective having to 'say' that, feel?

My 'guess' is that a 'Maddie cop' would rather be, somewhere, anywhere, 'else' other than at OG going through 'documents' for the umpteenth 'time'!

Because that is ALL they 'have to do', and have 'done', for almost 4 YEARS, isn't it?

IF they are NOT 'embarrassed', they bl**dy well should BE! (imo, obviously)

memo to OG:

RE-INTERVIEW the T9!

Ask DP about the 'few things' he considers 'pertinent and relevent' to 'establish' the material truth (about a 3 years old child's 'disappearance')

Ask R O'B, WHY he 'casted doubt' on, almost a YEAR 'after', the McCanns 'claim' of 'abduction' of their daughter.

It's ALL 'there' in their 'statements'!

If you're too 'lazy' to do 'that' i'll put it here, online, for you! GRATIS!

You can 'read' it for yourselves!

Do the RIGHT thing 'for' Madeleine'!

plebgate wrote:You know what- I am well and truly baffled as to why Mr. & Mrs. became such sort after "zlebs" by the media and fawned over by politicians and zlebs generally.

Yesterday on twitter we were reminded of the Police Bravery Awards ceremony where Mr. was invited to speak and was given a standing ovation (HRH Prince of Wales in attendance apparently) not sure I remember hearing that before.

They have held a gala dinner (even if zlebs preferred to use the back door), sat on the sofa a good few times, given permission to have their photographs taken in numerous outfits and looking extremely photogenic  blah blah blah.

Mrs. has become an ambassador for Missing People along with quite a few ITV presenters, what an honour!

How is all that possible I have to ask myself after admitting to leaving their three defenceless children alone night after night in a foreign land whilst they enjoyed themselves wining and dining with their friends?
Edited to add:
and one of their children, their eldest daughter disappeared and has not been seen or heard of since.
Why, why, why are they in such demand?

So along with the media, politicians, celebrities, PR organisations, spin doctors, lawyers, 'reputation managers', crisis consultants et al the police are also in on the circus act. Leicestershire police at the outset most certainly. Gerry being given a standing ovation at the Police Awards Ceremony - I mean WTF?? 

So the police award parents of children who 'go missing' in highly suspicious circumstances, do they? And ignore the statistical fact that, according to Kate in her book: "The majority of completed child abductions are parental/family abductions with 16 per cent involving abduction by a stranger. "


Could the police (or indeed anyone) please point towards ONE piece of evidence that the alleged "abduction" of Madeleine McCann falls into the 16 per cent statistic of abduction by a stranger? Just one, please.

And no, the fact that the parents and their friends claim that Madeleine was abducted by a complete stranger and they have no idea who it was does not count.

And in actual fact I would say that is a pretty darned good piece of evidence that Madeleine's disappearance falls firmly within the 84 per cent statistic. As in: in a whopping 84 per cent of cases of child "abductions" the parents and or family of the missing child are involved.

j.rob 'wrote'

"So along with the media, politicians, celebrities, PR organisations, spin doctors, lawyers, 'reputation managers', crisis consultants et al the police are also in on the circus act"
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Well, all the 'above' seem to be 'in on the circus act' of covering up CHILD ABUSE/EXPLOITATION in the UK, don't they?

MI5, MI6, Special Branch, MET Police, Senior Police Officers...................CERTAINLY 'involved' in high profile 'cover ups'!

Who 'says so'................er, only decent hardworking cops, who were taken 'off' cases, when they got to 'near' EXPOSING the HIGH POWERED 'perverts'!

Ask ex DCI Driscoll. (Lambeth children's homes abuse 'investigation'......MH MP!)

Indeed.............WTF!

jeanmonroe wrote:j.rob 'wrote'

"So along with the media, politicians, celebrities, PR organisations, spin doctors, lawyers, 'reputation managers', crisis consultants et al the police are also in on the circus act"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, all the 'above' seem to be 'in on the circus act' of covering up CHILD ABUSE/EXPLOITATION in the UK, don't they?

Indeed.............WTF!

Indeed. It's all quite sickening.

I wonder how many other cases of missing children or missing people the police have either failed to investigate properly and/or have chosen to find a convenient 'patsy' to pin the blame on? To 'protect' reputations/careers? For a nice little backhander maybe? Or other 'favours'?

The Ben Needham case, imo, does not fall into the category of a random mystery abduction. Not at all.

And it would seem that the Greek police did not believe the Needham family version of events either. Rather like the Portuguese police did not believe the TM version of events.

But still, why would anyone listen to kebab or sardine'munching foreign police?

The Lisa Irwin case in the USA looks fishy too. Lisa was allegedly stolen from her cot/bed at night as reported by her parents who claim the iabductor left a window and door open. Ah - now that sounds familiar! Seems like there might be a similar script in some of these case. 

And, rather like in the McCann case, a private benefactor came along and offered to help financially with a large reward. Perhaps feeling quite safe that the reward would never need to be paid out?

And - WOW! - the Adam Walsh case. Now that's another interesting one. The mother claims that six year old Adam was abducted when she took her eye off him in a department store. She immediately screams 'abduction!' when she finds him missing. The script again perhaps?

Hmmmm

Adam is later found murdered. The father goes on to found the dodgy (imo) NCMEC foundation for missing children. And becomes a TV host plus sells the story. And, low and behold, after a whopping 27 years Adam's murder is at last solved. And, guess what?, it's a drifter who is now dead. So it's a case of blame it on the dead guy. And Adam's father became famous as a TV presenter, a criminal investigator and a human rights advocate. Not bad for someone who, prior to this terrible tragedy which might have left him ruined, was working in the hotel trade as a salesman ((if the link below is anything to go by.)

The Walsh family organized a political campaign to help missing and exploited children.

Snipped from Wilki: The Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act .......was signed into law by U.S. President George W. Bush on July 27, 2006 following a two-year journey through the United States Congress and was intensely lobbied for by Walsh and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

Hmmmm...notice the timing of this. The year before Madeleine McCann was allegedly stolen from her bed by an abductor. 

Seems like there is big money to be made out of child exploitation. The Mcs "almost" got away with it, imo. And were desperate to join the other vultures feeding at the 'missing' children trough.

IMO only of course.

-------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Lisa_Irwin

http://sexgreedpolitics.blogspot.co.uk/2009/12/adam-walsh-blame-it-on-dead-guy.html

It would be interesting to know whether Kerry Needham has been asked to become an ambassador for Missing People.  If not, why not I wonder?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3032507/Former-Met-commissioner-Lord-Stevens-investigated-Stephen-Lawrence-corruption-inquiry-cover-up.html

Former Met commissioner Lord Stevens to be investigated over 'Stephen Lawrence corruption inquiry cover-up'
Mr Stevens accused of not giving information over to Macpherson inquiry
Today he told Channel 4 News: 'I'm not putting up with any more c**p'
Was Deputy Commissioner from 1998 to 2000 when report was being made
It's almost 22 years since Stephen Lawrence was murdered in racial attack
By JACK CRONE FOR MAILONLINE

Former Met Police Commissioner Lord Stevens is to be investigated over allegations of a cover-up during the inquiry into the handling of the Stephen Lawrence murder investigation.
Lord Stevens is accused of failing to provide information to the Macpherson public inquiry, which investigated the police's initial failure to apprehend the black teenager's killers following his 1993 murder.

Whether this is good, bad or indifferent, whether this is a real investigation or a "cover-up" of a 'cover-up'
what is shows is that GRANGE CANNOT HIDE

PeterMac wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3032507/Former-Met-commissioner-Lord-Stevens-investigated-Stephen-Lawrence-corruption-inquiry-cover-up.html

Former Met commissioner Lord Stevens to be investigated over 'Stephen Lawrence corruption inquiry cover-up'
Mr Stevens accused of not giving information over to Macpherson inquiry
Today he told Channel 4 News: 'I'm not putting up with any more c**p'
Was Deputy Commissioner from 1998 to 2000 when report was being made
It's almost 22 years since Stephen Lawrence was murdered in racial attack
By JACK CRONE FOR MAILONLINE

Former Met Police Commissioner Lord Stevens is to be investigated over allegations of a cover-up during the inquiry into the handling of the Stephen Lawrence murder investigation.
Lord Stevens is accused of failing to provide information to the Macpherson public inquiry, which investigated the police's initial failure to apprehend the black teenager's killers following his 1993 murder.

Whether this is good, bad or indifferent, whether this is a real investigation or a "cover-up" of a 'cover-up'
what it shows is that GRANGE CANNOT HIDE

But the problem is: for how long can Grange hide?

Compare the case of David Dukinfield, the incompetent Detective Superintendent who grossly mismanaged the crowd at the Sheffield Wednesday ground, Hillsborough, causing nearly 100 deaths.

Then he lied and lied about it.

Then he got dozens of other police officers to make false statements to an inquest and an inquiry - committing the criminal offence of perverting the course of justice in the process.

He got away with it.

Or so he thought.

Over 26 years later, the truth came out, and he had to hang his head in shame and admit his lies and his perjury. Whilst nearly a hundred people were killed and their surviving relatives suffered for 26 years - knowing the truth had been covered up.

Could DCI Andy Redwood suffer the same fate?

He retired at around 50. Got a very nice police pension. Went out, near enough, in a blaze of glory - drawing everything back to zero, the 'careful and critical analysis', even 'leaving no stone unturned' etc.  Three dozen trips to Portugal - and a ride in a the top French military helicopter, an Alouette Mark III no less.  And he was fawned over by the media - and hailed as a brilliant investigator by the BBC before a stunned 6.7 million Crimewatch audience in October 2013.  

But what if, inside Redwood's head, his conscience begins to gnaw way inside him, gradually unsettling him, disturbing him - the doubts growing day by day as to whether he should have sold his soul in order to comply with a ridiculous remit, and do as he was told by Det Chief Supt Hamish Campbell of Jill Dando notoriety?

And as he tries to drop off to sleep, will he be haunted by the words of PeterMac's many missives, with their mass of patient and fully-referenced forensic analysis, only for him to obey Campbell's orders and put every single one of them through the Belgravia POlice Station shredder?

One day he could end up feeling even worse than David Dukinfield does at the moment

I was going to start a new 'topic' titled 'WHY or WHAT made 30 YEAR 'career' cop, DCI Redwood 'do it'"?

subtitled: would it be better if he came 'clean' NOW or live in fear, of being exposed, as possibly, a 'bent' cop?

Re: 26 YEARS "LIAR" Duckenfield of Hillsborough; 'shame'

But looks like we've arrived at DCI Redwood's 'behaviour' at OG on this 'thread'

Well worth 'discussing' i believe.

His 'big boss', BHH WILL 'say' "DCI Redwood, never heard of him"

Originally put this on the Lord Stevens thread I resurrected, but I thought this from the BBC article was relevant to this thread ....

The Met said it referred the matter to the IPCC following a public complaint.

Does DCI Redwood even have a conscience to gnaw?

I don't think any of the people who hold positions of authority over us have a conscience at all.

They have sold their souls for money and position and the layers of deceit become too thick for them to extricate themselves out of the muck.

It is odd that certain cover ups have a sell by date whereas others go on for centuries.

Looking at it slightly differently, assume the met/pj did find the true culprit(s) that was not one of the Tapas 9, could there ever be a conviction?

Given the Tapas 9 statements with all their contradictions, and the apparent lack of questioning of the Tapas 9 by operation Grange, it would seem it would be very hard to prove beyond reasonable doubt, the guilt of any party. Wouldn't a defense lawyer have a field day creating doubt in the mind of a jury?

Thus it;s hard to have faith in the apparent approach of Grange, as it seemingly could not end up at a conviction.

Yes.. imagine the trial with the Tapas 9 as witnesses.

That'll never happen.

Any abductor would have to be dead.

BlueBag wrote:Yes.. imagine the trial with the Tapas 9 as witnesses.
That'll never happen.
Any abductor would have to be dead.

Look what happened at the trial of TB. They had to admit there was no evidence of abduction
Look what happened at the "trial" of GA. They had to admit they had NOT suffered in all the ways they had claimed.

PeterMac wrote:

BlueBag wrote:Yes.. imagine the trial with the Tapas 9 as witnesses.
That'll never happen.
Any abductor would have to be dead.

Look what happened at the trial of TB. They had to admit there was no evidence of abduction
Look what happened at the "trial" of GA.   They had to admit they had NOT suffered in all the ways they had claimed.

"Look what happened at the trial of TB. They had to admit there was no evidence of abduction"
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Look what happened at the civil case against GA and others

ID - In which documentaries did you participate?
EL (Emma Loach) - corrects that she is actually the documentary maker. One was broadcast in May 2008, Madeleine McCann, one year on (ITV) and the other in May 2009, Madeleine was here (Ch4). In the first one she didn't use the word "abduction" and the McCanns, as arguidos, couldn't speak. The documentary is about the McCann European campaign.

ID - They were broadcast in how many countries in the EU?
EL - doesn't know.

ID - Are they based on the McCann couple's thesis (the abduction)?
EL - answers that in the second documentary an investigator (David Edgar, witness 3) says there are many theories but they investigate it on the basis that it was an abduction.
-----------------------------------------

Even the McCann's OWN lawyer will not say the 'A' word, 'abduction'! (IN a court room)

She refers to the 'abduction' ONLY as 'the McCann couple's 'THESIS'
-------------------------------------------------
ID - Are they based on the McCann couple's thesis (the abduction)?
EL - answers that in the second documentary an investigator (David Edgar, witness 3) says there are many theories but they investigate it on the basis that it was an abduction.

Dave Edgar ('Grabbit' of 'Grabbit&Leggit. PI's') SAYS there ARE many 'theories'.............but ONLY 'investigates' the ONE 'theory'

Is only 'paid' (by the McCann's/'fund') to 'investigate' the ONE 'theory'?.......IMO!

NEVER did tell 'anyone', say publicly, WHAT those OTHER, MANY, 'theories' WERE, he said, did he?

(Wonder if the 'told' OG about the many 'other', his, theories?)

2) Defence lawyers.

a) TVI lawyers' questions.

TVI - Was the 2009 documentary a reconstruction?
EL - says the main characters didn't take part. Those who did were the private investigators.

TVI - But it was presented as a reconstruction? Didn't the McCanns collaborate?
[Note: The Portuguese word was "reconstitution", and not "reconstruction". The difference is important: a reconstruction is a current practice in Common Law UK ; it's done in front of cameras with actors and the purpose is to jog people's memories. In the Romano Germanic System (Portugal, France, etc.), a "reconstitution" is only done by the police, with the real protagonists, without TV cameras and for internal use.]

EL - says they were interviewed but weren't involved in the film making.
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'Faux pas' Emma?

So that WASN'T (the main characters) GM, MO and JT, i 'saw', taking part, in the 2009 'documentary', 'Madeleine was here', in PDL, Portugal?

"weren't 'involved' in the film making"

So that WASN'T, 'main characters', GM and MO 'filmed/involved' actually IN apartment G5A in the 2009 documentary, 'Madeleine was here'?

I'm off to 'specks savers'!