Re: New DCI

by Rogue-a-Tory 13.02.15 12:15

HelenMeg wrote:wftt appears to have temporarily left the building to go and seek further clarification from his 'friend'

All for a good debate, but not the kind where facts are wrapped up in the paper of - can't reveal my source, believe me it's correct & you are wrong. Been using internet forums too long to fall for that old chestnut, the type where the argument is darkened so much with unsubstantiated twaddle you really can't see the WFTT.

I'm with Tony on this, disruption.

by HelenMeg 13.02.15 12:17

Yes - but as Tony inferred - in a way disruption is good - it means there is something to disrupt - if it didn't occur - the form would be considered harnless

by Rogue-a-Tory 13.02.15 12:22

HelenMeg wrote:Yes - but as Tony inferred - in a way disruption is good - it means there is something to disrupt - if it didn't occur - the form would be considered harnless

by comperedna 13.02.15 12:40

I will never forget Coldwater who also had a 'very reliable source.' Anyone else remember him? NOT that I'm mking a comparison in this case.

by lj 13.02.15 13:52

woodforthetrees wrote:
Gaggzy wrote:
j.rob wrote:Absolutely not. I would not jeopardize their 20+yr career, or put myself in that situation. Sorry.

All i will say is that they have first hand experience and access to information and are 100% credible. Quite possibly the most interesting person i have ever known and their career path through various agencies is fascinating, more so the differences between what the general public see/know and what is actually happening.

As such, my view on the parents guilt on the murder/disposal and the fact that SY are secretly putting a case together against them, have done a complete u-turn.

-----

Well - you might be in a minority of one. There is nothing that indicates to me that the parents and their friends are not complicit in what happened, in some way. Nothing whatsoever. From the very beginning and right up to this day.

Oh-oh. Looks as if we've got someone who is ITK (in-the-know) and surprise surprise - is not prepared to 'reveal their source.'

I completely agree with red highlighted quote by j.rob.
Of course i'm not going to advertise their name and role on the internet!!

I have never stated that SY are 100% right, i have only stated that they are not looking at the McCanns

Oh I believe that SY is not looking at the McCanns, I just think it is wrong to state here something as a fact (that you have inside information) without proof.

I am LMAO that the fact that SY is not looking at the parents convinced you they are innocent.

Their remit was that: look at an abduction.

Their goal was always supposed to be to whitewash the whole thing. Seems they have a hard time doing that.

But your fell for their trap.

That "I know people" does not really work here.

by rustyjames 13.02.15 14:47

comperedna wrote:I will never forget Coldwater who also had a 'very reliable source.' Anyone else remember him? NOT that I'm mking a comparison in this case.

Yes Coldwater is what immediately sprung to mind with regard to someone who was ITK via unnamed mysterious sources. Coldwater was extremely believable though and I remember closely following his/her posts.

by Rogue-a-Tory 13.02.15 15:43

rustyjames wrote:
comperedna wrote:I will never forget Coldwater who also had a 'very reliable source.' Anyone else remember him? NOT that I'm mking a comparison in this case.

Yes Coldwater is what immediately sprung to mind with regard to someone who was ITK via unnamed mysterious sources. Coldwater was extremely believable though and I remember closely following his/her posts.

Coldwater - like the contents of the Arade Dam? winkwink

by lj 13.02.15 16:25

comperedna wrote:I will never forget Coldwater who also had a 'very reliable source.' Anyone else remember him? NOT that I'm mking a comparison in this case.

At least Coldwater was not trying to say the parents are innocent, on the contrary.

by j.rob 13.02.15 16:44

Well, my very reliable source who lives in Luz and has done for many years, tells me that his family and their friends all would have believed that the McCanns and their friends had something to hide were it not for the fact that the Hubbards were so friendly with the McCanns and so supportive of them. Having the full backing of the then local priest Father Hubbard as well as Hubbard's family and (all/some?) of the congregation. And, therefore, support from at least some sections of the local community convinced him that the McCanns and their friends could not possibly be guilty.

I have to say, having watched this interview, the fact that the McCanns have the support of this slippery, utterly insincere and obviously lying priest would have quite the reverse effect upon me. Even if I had fully believed the McCann version of events prior to this interview, watching this alone would have convinced me that the McCanns are guilty and the priest knows full well what happened. And is lying.

Slow down the footage and watch his face and gestures. His body language and facial gestures are fascinating. Dripping with unctuous deception. Every inch the dodgy priest, imo.

Watch how he closes his eyes at the 0.04 mark. He is, imo, dissociating himself from the lying words that are coming out of his mouth.

Watch at the 0.37 to 0.39 point. There is some kind of shared or 'in' joke between the interviewer and Hubbard. The interviewer is smirking. Then Hubbard makes this very strange hand gesture, sweeping his arm across and raising his thumb and first finger up to form a V while at the same time pointing two digits forwards. A very awkward hand position and one which appears to be symbolic. Meanwhile, the interviewer is smirking. As though 'in on it'.

It's the sort of thing you might do with your hands if you were trying to make shadow puppets but most peculiar in the context of this interview. Looks to me like Hubbard is 'in' on the whole thing. And plays GM's Joker type games complete with riddles, symbolism and the whole bag of tricks.

He laughs really inappropriately at the 2.04 point. And smirks again at the 2.27 mark.

Notice also how he gives the game away that he knows the McCanns now only have two children. He says 'two children' at the 1.17 mark then quickly corrects this to 'three'.

What a lying scumbag, imo. I've seldom seen such an obviously deceptive interview, apart from those with any members of TM, of course!

From what he says about Kate visiting Luz at the end as it was the last place she saw Madeleine, I think it is possible that Madeleine's dead body was inside that church at one point. There is quite a funereal air to the manner in which he talks about Kate's visits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqrmxVqOT0k

by j.rob 13.02.15 16:47

Of course - he conducted the funeral!

by jeanmonroe 13.02.15 17:09

"There is quite a funereal air to the manner in which he talks about Kate's visits."
-------------------------------------------------

Only because he was thinking, indeed, like her own mother was thinking, "why AREN'T Kate's 'visits' bigger"?

by lj 13.02.15 17:25

I have always said their "turn to God" was meant as a defensive cover. You see that often: Clinton, Jessie Jackson and all those conversions in jail.

Probably father Pacheco did not want to play their game. I never believed they confessed to him, they will not confess to anyone, but they needed a man of the cloth to be their cover.

So distasteful

by missbeetle 13.02.15 19:39

Oh J.Rob, you make me laugh - Rev Fr Hubbard "a lying scumbag"!!

I'm going to second that opinion.

That video's appalling - I'd missed that "ah well, fck it, we'll magic it away" hand gesture -

- and his horrible costume! Shiny cassock and plasticky collar...

...and what's with the red biro??

He's the dodgiest straight cat in all of this.

I have even wondered if he is a real, actual, genuine vicar -

- or something cobbled up from (Operation) Mincemeat.

My thoughts only.

by j.rob 13.02.15 20:33

lj wrote:I have always said their "turn to God" was meant as a defensive cover. You see that often: Clinton, Jessie Jackson and all those conversions in jail.

Probably father Pacheco did not want to play their game. I never believed they confessed to him, they will not confess to anyone, but they needed a man of the cloth to be their cover.

So distasteful

Indeed. I wonder when the McCanns met the Hubbards? I wonder what their shared interests are? I don't count religion as I think this is just a phony cover for them all.

by mysterion 13.02.15 20:40

Sounds nothing like any vicar I`ve ever met. Vicars are usually articulate and can make biblical and theological references off the cuff. I didn`t spot any in the interview. Mind you, it was heavily edited.

by j.rob 13.02.15 20:45

missbeetle wrote:Oh J.Rob, you make me laugh - Rev Fr Hubbard "a lying scumbag"!!

I'm going to second that opinion.

That video's appalling - I'd missed that "ah well, fck it, we'll magic it away" hand gesture -

- and his horrible costume! Shiny cassock and plasticky collar...

...and what's with the red biro??

He's the dodgiest straight cat in all of this.

I have even wondered if he is a real, actual, genuine vicar -

- or something cobbled up from (Operation) Mincemeat.

My thoughts only.

Ha! Yes, a lying scumbag hiding behind a cassock.......the Mcs are lying scumbags hiding behind religion AND medicine AND Freemasonry, imo.

This whole case abounds with cults. Extraordinary.

When did the Hubbards arrive in Luz - was it just a few days after Madeleine's 'abduction'? I had always assumed that their role was to get the local community 'on board' the TM juggernaut. To get the local community supporting TM.

But I now suspect there was another role too. Connected with a funeral. The timing of their arrival is very interesting.

A bit like the timing of Murat's arrival.

All these 'players' - feels like a work of Chaucer or Shakespeare.

But, of course, an innocent child was the victim in all this.

Really, this case plumbs the depths of human depravity, imo. So many people milking the cash cow.

by mad world 13.02.15 23:16

Just to go back what i stated earlier..there is too many inconsistencies in the tapas statements for there to be in the clear. The only way that could be the case was if there was concrete evidence that an abduction took place..which there isn't. Wftt i'm sure your source is real..but unless they could tell you what has haooened to make them ignore every inconsistency eminating from tm..and the obvious fact that they have backtracked their stories tjo fit new findings..i would suggest you are being mislead. But only my opinion based on my sources.

by mad world 13.02.15 23:17

*happened

by j.rob 14.02.15 19:07

mad world wrote:Just to go back what i stated earlier..there is too many inconsistencies in the tapas statements for there to be in the clear. The only way that could be the case was if there was concrete evidence that an abduction took place..which there isn't. Wftt i'm sure your source is real..but unless they could tell you what has haooened to make them ignore every inconsistency eminating from tm..and the obvious fact that they have backtracked their stories tjo fit new findings..i would suggest you are being mislead. But only my opinion based on my sources.

The 'source' is probably TM, imo. This is what TM want us to believe. Just like they wanted us to believe that a mystery person 'stole' Madeleine from her bed on Thursday evening.

All the evidence points away from that. All the evidence points towards TM being involved.

The police know that. Everyone knows that.

TM know what happened. They are playing their last (desperate) card, imo.

No-one believes them. Certainly not the police.

IMO.

by mad world 14.02.15 21:03

I'm not saying it is tm as i have no evidence..but anyone who thinks the police are stupid are barking up the wrong tree. They will know through experience what is going on. Unfortunately they are neutered by higher forces. Unless someone in the tapas 9 cracks i can never see justice for madeleine.

by HelenMeg 14.02.15 22:06

mad world wrote:I'm not saying it is tm as i have no evidence..but anyone who thinks the police are stupid are barking up the wrong tree. They will know through experience what is going on. Unfortunately they are neutered by higher forces. Unless someone in the tapas 9 cracks i can never see justice for madeleine.

I agree the police are neutered by higher forces. But it's a £10 Mill operation - under the spotlight -they've finally called RM back in for questioning having gone round & round houses looking at burglars etc etc .
We have experienced AR and his antics, playing his publicity games and now in hopefully the final stages we have NW who is tight-lipped and behaving as we would hope and expect a SY DCI to behave.

We have seen SY's initial review of abduction change into supposedly a murder investigation with SY admitting after 7 long years that death may have occurred in the apartment. We have seen indications that MCCANNS will lose damages case - and that Amaral's book followed the PJ investigation. SY can surely not afford to find anything but the truth, and they will follow a strategy which may mean that re-questioning of the TAPAS 9 may well be best done last... .

by mad world 14.02.15 22:16

We can hope helenmeg..i sincerely hope you are right. But we all on here are aware what happened in plebgate who wins if the police ultimately have to play politics against the political classes...there is only one winner and i don't see the police having the chance in that fight. We see zlebs being done on historic charges...not the political class. And as politics is up to its neck in the mm case..i think justice will never be served.
This poster does not represent the opinions of this site...that should cover any legalities.

by XTC 14.02.15 23:18

mad world wrote:We can hope helenmeg..i sincerely hope you are right. But we all on here are aware what happened in plebgate who wins if the police ultimately have to play politics against the political classes...there is only one winner and i don't see the police having the chance in that fight. We see zlebs being done on historic charges...not the political class. And as politics is up to its neck in the mm case..i think justice will never be served.
This poster does not represent the opinions of this site...that should cover any legalities.

mad world

There does appear to be a political game being played and has been since the 3rd of May 07.

It is said that politics is concentrated economics and the economics of the PdL area
appears to be a lot of British investment and Irish investment in property and possibly businesses in general
such as Mark Warner et al.

In general within the whole of Portugal ( like Spain and maybe Greece ) very big investments in terms of Capital
has been invested over the years by foreigners.

Both are ex Imperialist nations.

The top dog currently vis investment and influence within Portugal without a doubt is the UK.

True: that European co-operation on legal agreements have to be honoured and that is what is going on at the moment.

It works both ways.

But what needs to be recognised is precisely the relationship between the UK and Portugal and who has the final say in
this particular investigation.

Woodforthetrees has his or her opinions and I'm happy with that and in my view SY are not countenancing that any member of the Tapas 9
are involved in Madeleines disappearance.

The thing is (and this has to be made clear to any opinion as to how this SY investigation is going) is that the alleged crime was committed in Portugal. Because the crime was carried out in Portugal it is up to the Portuguese legal authorities to decide what can be added to the investigation files and what cannot. This is what would ordinarily go forward to a potential prosecution.

Therefore; SY, woodforthetrees and his no doubt sincere friend and us will have no bearing at all on what the Portuguese legal authorities decide to accept in terms of addding credible ' new' and potentially provable evidence to the case files.

There doesn't appear to be be any new evidence at all that can be added for the simple reason that there isn't any new evidence to be added despite SY's attempts at finding it ( or manufacturing it by the search for suspects? and so on ).The PJ have found nothing either
otherwise they too would be crowing about it.

Sadly I suspect it is an investigation for show and nothing else. Cameron thought it was a populist thing to do. Theresa May was wary and Bernard Hogan How(?)e has let the cat out of the bag. The MSM trades in emotion rather than fact ( more populism ) and round and round we go in circles. Brown and Blair ditto- good old fashioned perceived populism.

I wish Nichola Wall good luck and if she cracks the case all credit to her but I do suspect that Madeleine was never meant to be found.

If you wish to find out where Madeleine is you are not going to trip over her accidentally. Only a person or persons can guide you there.

If you don't find these people you are doomed to fail in your search.

If you don't look you won't find. Simple as that for me which is why this file will be archived on a higher shelf than it was last time - pending further credible evidence.

Sorry to be so pessemistic but that's how I view it.

All opinion though.

by mad world 14.02.15 23:44

And i couldn't agree more xtc..you make the point better than i could..portugal relies on our investment hence what we say goes...ie the removal of amaral. You're not pesimistic.just realistic.

by HelenMeg 15.02.15 17:43

mad world wrote:And i couldn't agree more xtc..you make the point better than i could..portugal relies on our investment hence what we say goes...ie the removal of amaral. You're not pesimistic.just realistic.

I can understand pessimism / realism on this case - we are 8 years on....
There was clearly political interference and IMO there are establishment figures connected to this case. There is huge UK business in the Algarve related to real estate / golf / tourism. I believe it is for this reason
that the investigation has been hampered, and it is focussed on who was there that week and their connections.
Labour were involved in 2007. Initially GM was 'fxxxcked' - he said it himself. Then remember how their faces and attitude changed only a matter of weeks later - suddenly they knew they were protected. But only as an indirect consequence of the more important guests being protected. Once that protection has gone then they are lambs to the slaughter. DC was persuaded to have a review - he did so - finding a can of worms. All those establishment figures / political connections suddenly start worrying and fighting to save themselves. Wealth business men in the Algarve etc . What can DC do? He tries to close the case with the least impact - find a burglar or something... then realises after a few attempts it cannot work. That was AR's role, surely - see if we can make it go away. But they cant. The cannot make it go away so they HAVE to now close it with at least some truth being revealed and the lambs have to be slaughtered. It took them too long to realise that. l think DC would dearly have wanted a bit of whitewash - but it was not possible though they tried their hardest. DC is not stupid - this case will be closed within 6 months and at least some of the truth will be revealed - I'll eat my hat if thats not the case. Its just logical.