The Flowerbed

by nglfi 28.10.14 9:01

Apologies if this has been discussed somewhere else, but I've been thinking about the cadaver and blood dog alerts and there is one that really doesn't fit the narrative of the parents being involved IMO. I can't think of why the parents would have temporarily placed Madeleine ' body outside in the flowerbed, it doesn't make any sense to me. If we accept Amaral's explanation that there was an accident and the cadaver came to rest behind the sofa, then it seems logical that the parents, while doing a clean up operation, stored the body in the wardrobe. But why would they have put the body anywhere outside? The only thing I can think is that they first settled on an 'accident' where Madeleine fell out of the window and placed her body there, but then at the last minute had a change of heart and realised that would be more risky to stick with as a story than the one they eventually settled on. But did no one see this being carried out?
It's the sole piece of evidence IMO that could possibly support an abductor/intruder theory. The abductor, having killed Madeleine by accident, put the body down there while he was climbing out of the window. Of course I don't believe this is what happened but how else can it be explained?
Perhaps Kate smelled of cadaver so strongly at that point that she transferred the odour to the flowerbed when she was standing outside?

by Snifferdog 28.10.14 14:30

Perhaps M was hidden under the flowers, to be removed at a later time?

by Guest 28.10.14 14:39

Exactly which flowerbed where?

by Guest 28.10.14 14:50

There is no flowerbed outside the bedroom window. The one that was weakly indicated by Eddie was outside the back/patio:

"Garden belonging to apartment 5A (with access via the balcony and the steps):

9.49 to 10pm: The cadaver dog "marks" an area of the garden immediately below the window."
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A body may have been temporarily laid there while someone was checking the road to make sure it was clear of passers by or men pushing their child around to help it get off to sleep. Maybe. IMO.

by Guest 28.10.14 14:51

Is there a photo of it?

Did it provide cover?

by Snifferdog 28.10.14 14:55

A link to the flower bed.

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by roy rovers 28.10.14 15:42

False alarm? Maybe another dog peed in the flowerbed. Dogs alert to that kind of thing.

by nglfi 28.10.14 16:18

I'd rather not think it was a false alarm because it then means that any of the other alerts are just as likely to have been false, and it weakens the dog's evidence IMO. However it does then pose a quandary as to what exactly was done. Perhaps rather than being a flowerbed, it was just a green area with plants? I'm not sure if there are any pictures of the outside. I suppose it could have been a temporary hiding place, or it could have contained things that were connected to the cadaver but not the cadaver itself, ie clothes, cuddle cat or any of the other items later alerted to?

by nglfi 28.10.14 16:19

dantezebu wrote:

9.49 to 10pm: The cadaver dog "marks" an area of the garden immediately below the window."
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ie as mentioned here it was 'an area of the garden', which is a lot more vague than 'flowerbed'

by Guest 28.10.14 16:47

nglfi wrote:
dantezebu wrote:

9.49 to 10pm: The cadaver dog "marks" an area of the garden immediately below the window."
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ie as mentioned here it was 'an area of the garden', which is a lot more vague than 'flowerbed'

...water form cleaning which was poured into the "garden"?????

by HelenMeg 28.10.14 16:50

dantezebu wrote:There is no flowerbed outside the bedroom window. The one that was weakly indicated by Eddie was outside the back/patio:

"Garden belonging to apartment 5A (with access via the balcony and the steps):

9.49 to 10pm: The cadaver dog "marks" an area of the garden immediately below the window."
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

A body may have been temporarily laid there while someone was checking the road to make sure it was clear of passers by or men pushing their child around to help it get off to sleep. Maybe. IMO.

Yes - the body had to be removed from the apartment by the parents and they had to ensure everywhere was clear before doing that therefore laid the body down outside even just for a minute..

by Nina 28.10.14 16:59

HelenMeg wrote:
dantezebu wrote:There is no flowerbed outside the bedroom window. The one that was weakly indicated by Eddie was outside the back/patio:

"Garden belonging to apartment 5A (with access via the balcony and the steps):

9.49 to 10pm: The cadaver dog "marks" an area of the garden immediately below the window."
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

A body may have been temporarily laid there while someone was checking the road to make sure it was clear of passers by or men pushing their child around to help it get off to sleep. Maybe. IMO.
Yes - the body had to be removed from the apartment by the parents and they had to ensure everywhere was clear before doing that therefore laid the body down outside even just for a minute..

Or placed a blue bag there for a few moments.

by Rob Royston 28.10.14 17:24

Helene1 wrote:
nglfi wrote:
dantezebu wrote:

9.49 to 10pm: The cadaver dog "marks" an area of the garden immediately below the window."
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ie as mentioned here it was 'an area of the garden', which is a lot more vague than 'flowerbed'
...water form cleaning which was poured into the "garden"?????

That seems like a valid possibility. I wonder if tests have ever been done to see if it could happen.

by sonic72 28.10.14 17:51

You've got the scent in a wardrobe, which one can imagine was a temporary short-term storage area (hence why it had to of happened before 3rd May), and you have a scent by the flowerbed at the back of their apartment (back to front apartment - Front at back, back at front) which again could be seen as a hiding place.

I take these alerts as definite temporary hiding places, the one outside was probably so they had the body ready to go, upon arrival of a car to help take the body away to be hidden somewhere else. Again, all this happened before 3rd May imo.

by Woofer 28.10.14 18:31

sonic72 wrote:You've got the scent in a wardrobe, which one can imagine was a temporary short-term storage area (hence why it had to of happened before 3rd May), and you have a scent by the flowerbed at the back of their apartment (back to front apartment - Front at back, back at front) which again could be seen as a hiding place.

I take these alerts as definite temporary hiding places, the one outside was probably so they had the body ready to go, upon arrival of a car to help take the body away to be hidden somewhere else. Again, all this happened before 3rd May imo.

Or even a man with a buggy.

by pennylane 28.10.14 19:01

sonic72 wrote:You've got the scent in a wardrobe, which one can imagine was a temporary short-term storage area (hence why it had to of happened before 3rd May), and you have a scent by the flowerbed at the back of their apartment (back to front apartment - Front at back, back at front) which again could be seen as a hiding place.

I take these alerts as definite temporary hiding places, the one outside was probably so they had the body ready to go, upon arrival of a car to help take the body away to be hidden somewhere else. Again, all this happened before 3rd May imo.

Not imo, sonic. I believe everything points to last minute chaos, and desperate back fitting.

by sarliv 28.10.14 20:28

dantezebu wrote:There is no flowerbed outside the bedroom window. The one that was weakly indicated by Eddie was outside the back/patio:

"Garden belonging to apartment 5A (with access via the balcony and the steps):

9.49 to 10pm: The cadaver dog "marks" an area of the garden immediately below the window."
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

A body may have been temporarily laid there while someone was checking the road to make sure it was clear of passers by or men pushing their child around to help it get off to sleep. Maybe. IMO.

I agree with you Dantezebu.Gerry could have been disrupted by Jeremy Wilkins and had to leave the body until later in the evening.Guessing!

by Guest 28.10.14 20:32

BlueBag wrote:Is there a photo of it?

Did it provide cover?

If these were taken at the time - yes:

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by Guest 29.10.14 10:03

Dee Coy wrote:
BlueBag wrote:Is there a photo of it?

Did it provide cover?
If these were taken at the time - yes:

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GM wearing NO WATCH

by palm tree 29.10.14 10:11

Oh dear, haunting pic, you'd think he was giving a hiding place away!
IMO

by Guest 29.10.14 16:58

Rob Royston wrote:
Helene1 wrote:
nglfi wrote:
dantezebu wrote:

9.49 to 10pm: The cadaver dog "marks" an area of the garden immediately below the window."
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
ie as mentioned here it was 'an area of the garden', which is a lot more vague than 'flowerbed'
...water form cleaning which was poured into the "garden"?????

That seems like a valid possibility. I wonder if tests have ever been done to see if it could happen.

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"CSI HUMAN BLOOD DETECTING DOG

'Keela' The Crime Scene Investigation (C.S.I.) dog will search for and locate
exclusively human blood. She will locate contaminated weapons, screen
motor vehicles and items of clothing and examine crime scenes for human
blood deposits. She will accurately locate human blood on items that have
been subjected to 'clean up operations' or having been subjected to several
washing machine cycles. In training she has accurately located samples of
blood on property up to thirty-six years old."

As I understand Martin Grime, these dogs are also able to detect areas, where blood is - however it came to this place!
Please correct me, if I`m wrong!

by inspirespirit 30.10.14 8:11

If she had woken up and gone looking for her mum and dad, wandered out through the open patio doors onto the patio, she could maybe have heard them, climbed onto one of the patio chairs to look over the patio and fallen over. she would have been lying in the flower bed below, fatally injured long enough for the cadaver scent to be left before they came back to check on her and found her.
As they had all left their children alone (maybe ?) they could be all classed as complicit to her negligent death, hence the cover up. just an opinion.

by Guest 30.10.14 13:21

...these are all valid possibilities - but if they (SY/PJ) won´t find any "valid" DNA-evidence (according to the dogs findings), the disappearance of this poor little girl will all end in "nothing".
...as nobody of the involved persons - as far as we know - were questioned again - no matter what "tales" they have told.
Whatever the reason therefor was and is.

But back to the DNA. In the past 7 years all possible suspects were eliminated! There´s nobody left...beside...!
If we look again at the explanation Richard Phlips gave about the DNA-Analysis (so far - before he was stopped by men in suits) ,
I truly hope, that this is now a serious investigation and forensics have moved on!!!!!
Hopefully
IMO

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