Re: 'Portugal Resident' comments on that Summers and Swan book - and suggest it's just 'propaganda'

by Okeydokey 05.09.14 0:45

WMD wrote:
Markus 2 wrote:
stillsloppingout wrote:The more books , apologists ex / current police officers, MP's ,heads of media, spin doctors etc who continue to totally ignore all the clear evidence that points to the couple deeply upsets me ... Then I see the smug face of that Police commissioner in Rotherham who refuses to go .
my point it truly is a network .and more and more ,even though I have Imo I have always been in no doubt ,something very dark is the glue that binds .We live in a truly sick country as GA said it a very British desease. ( need quote ).
Know what you mean ,can't win ,will it ever be any different.
Churchill said of the Russians "a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma".it very much sums up this mystery.

You can say that again! And maybe throw in "charade" somewhere along the line.

by Okeydokey 05.09.14 0:49

nglfi wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1563381/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-look-to-US-sniffer-dog-case.html the Telegraph here describes it as coming from 'a source close to the McCanns solicitors' so it could be a classic Clarence Mitchell blooper!

Yes, let's not forget we have it on record that Clarence Mitchell claimed that NONE of the Tapas 9 had either a watch OR a mobile phone with them!!! If he can claim that, he can claim anything.

by jeanmonroe 05.09.14 1:23

Okeydokey wrote:
nglfi wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1563381/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-look-to-US-sniffer-dog-case.html the Telegraph here describes it as coming from 'a source close to the McCanns solicitors' so it could be a classic Clarence Mitchell blooper!

Yes, let's not forget we have it on record that Clarence Mitchell claimed that NONE of the Tapas 9 had either a watch OR a mobile phone with them!!! If he can claim that, he can claim anything.

The very SAME Clarence 'i'm STILL on a retainer of £28,000pa PAID from the Madeleine 'Fund" Mitchell, who HAD to 'back track', rapidly, from the 'smashed shutter, jemmied shutter, forced window' er 'break in, put into the public domain by McCanns and people IN UK (excellent eyesight!) the very next day, after the 'event' as to how the burglator 'got in' to 'abduct' Madeleine, because that was the ONLY way to get into the er, secured, locked, safe, holiday apartment!

Hmmmm.

by Angelique 05.09.14 5:33

Okeydokey wrote:
WMD wrote:
Markus 2 wrote:
stillsloppingout wrote:The more books , apologists ex / current police officers, MP's ,heads of media, spin doctors etc who continue to totally ignore all the clear evidence that points to the couple deeply upsets me ... Then I see the smug face of that Police commissioner in Rotherham who refuses to go .
my point it truly is a network .and more and more ,even though I have Imo I have always been in no doubt ,something very dark is the glue that binds .We live in a truly sick country as GA said it a very British desease. ( need quote ).
Know what you mean ,can't win ,will it ever be any different.
Churchill said of the Russians "a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma".it very much sums up this mystery.

You can say that again! And maybe throw in "charade" somewhere along the line.

Yes, yes, and yes. It is very dark and it's everywhere.

by Wideawake 05.09.14 7:20

I think the likelihood of your average GP coming into contact with 6 dead bodies in such a short time would be practically zero unless your name was Dr Harold Shipman. thumbsup

by Wideawake 05.09.14 7:24

stillsloppingout wrote:The more books , apologists ex / current police officers, MP's ,heads of media, spin doctors etc who continue to totally ignore all the clear evidence that points to the couple deeply upsets me ... Then I see the smug face of that Police commissioner in Rotherham who refuses to go .
my point it truly is a network .and more and more ,even though I have Imo I have always been in no doubt ,something very dark is the glue that binds .We live in a truly sick country as GA said it a very British desease. ( need quote ).

Yes something very dark and sinister indeed that binds together the Tapas 9, who here (or anywhere) would cover and lie for a friend or even a family member as they have all done? And even if you did on the spur of the moment surely you would have cracked by now?

So as they haven't (so far) that shows there is too much at risk.

by **tigger** 05.09.14 7:49

WMD wrote:
Naz_Nomad wrote:
I'm no law expert, but surely a good legal team could blow a hole in the "unreliable dogs" claim? After all, Kate admitted that she had been handling corpses prior to her holiday, and wore the very same clothes on holiday, which explained why the dogs detected cadaverine on them. She sometimes took Madeleine's soft toy to work with her, which, as she explained, was why the dogs detected traces of cadaverine on it. So she has contradicted Gerry's "unreliable dogs" statement, and confirmed their reliability in detecting cadaverine. Surely?

Well maybe yes,but where is the supposed admission about the cadaver being from Kates work,as I pointed out above it was said in the Hall DVD that her mother said it,can't find any info on that either.I know the DVD's aren't definitive but he must have got the info from some where surely?

Iirc it's a quote from either Philomena or Kate's mother. The 'explanation' for the DNA in the car came from Philomena.

The McCanns have right from the start made sure that such statements cannot be directly attributed to them. Probably lesson one/instruction nr 1 from the PR.
they were also given written statements - so as to read their emotions from a piece of paper, which would have been a good habit to extend to interviews where motormouth Gerry in particular spills the beans with depressing regularity.

As for the six corpses, that can still be checked out, records of deceased around that time should be available and the working hours of Dr. Kate are known too. I'd be highly surprised if her practice had such a massive death rate, quite apart from the fact that It would hardly be her job to visit the mortuary unless she was testing sedatives and it was part of a learning curve to see the difference - iirc the way she was reported to test the twins for vital signs was rather basic.
Dear me, I'm now having visions of Kate in her cook's trousers, cuddlecat in one hand, a small mirror in the other, muttering 'asleep? Or?'

by Guest 05.09.14 8:05

The alert at Sean's little red tshirt with airplanes on it is conveniently forgotten in this 'version'.

@ tigger About those six dead persons. Kate McCann might have visited them at the place they died. It's a routine job some doctors perform for the 'help-services'.
My GP did as well at some time. They visit to issue (or not)a certificate of natural death.
It brings in some extra money.
Dunno if it works like that in the UK.

I am not believing any such thing happened,
but just to put the record straight.

parapono

by Markus 2 05.09.14 8:18

Iirc it's a quote from either Philomena or Kate's mother
If it can be found that she said that and proven to be documented , how would she know it was six people, unless Kate had told her. So does this not prove the point that it was mentioned.Why were they not questioned further on this.
I think if the case ever went to court the onus would be on Kate to explain why she made up an excuse of having attended 6 dead bodies, and why she then inexplicably decided to wear those clothes on holiday without washing them. This was information she volunteered to explain cadaver odour and the prosecution would pounce on it in seconds, given how implaus it is as an explanation.

by aiyoyo 05.09.14 8:34

tigger wrote:
WMD wrote:
Naz_Nomad wrote:
I'm no law expert, but surely a good legal team could blow a hole in the "unreliable dogs" claim? After all, Kate admitted that she had been handling corpses prior to her holiday, and wore the very same clothes on holiday, which explained why the dogs detected cadaverine on them. She sometimes took Madeleine's soft toy to work with her, which, as she explained, was why the dogs detected traces of cadaverine on it. So she has contradicted Gerry's "unreliable dogs" statement, and confirmed their reliability in detecting cadaverine. Surely?

Well maybe yes,but where is the supposed admission about the cadaver being from Kates work,as I pointed out above it was said in the Hall DVD that her mother said it,can't find any info on that either.I know the DVD's aren't definitive but he must have got the info from some where surely?

Iirc it's a quote from either Philomena or Kate's mother. The 'explanation' for the DNA in the car came from Philomena.

The McCanns have right from the start made sure that such statements cannot be directly attributed to them. Probably lesson one/instruction nr 1 from the PR.
they were also given written statements - so as to read their emotions from a piece of paper, which would have been a good habit to extend to interviews where motormouth Gerry in particular spills the beans with depressing regularity.

As for the six corpses, that can still be checked out, records of deceased around that time should be available and the working hours of Dr. Kate are known too. I'd be highly surprised if her practice had such a massive death rate, quite apart from the fact that It would hardly be her job to visit the mortuary unless she was testing sedatives and it was part of a learning curve to see the difference - iirc the way she was reported to test the twins for vital signs was rather basic.
Dear me, I'm now having visions of Kate in her cook's trousers, cuddlecat in one hand, a small mirror in the other, muttering 'asleep? Or?'

The claim of contact with the six corpses refers to home visits to certify death a la shipman style.
For a part time locum to have certified 6 corpses in private residences in a short period of time it seems a massive rate since they would have had to be her patients for her to be called out to attend to the patients or to certify death.

The irony is they acknowledged cadaverine on their possession; and that's a dead giveaway they knew the dogs have got them cornered.

by **tigger** 05.09.14 8:48

Thanks, we also have to assume that these six death were spread over at least 2-3 weeks imo.
So Kate is visiting wearing her holiday clothes in March/April in Leicester. Seems a bit cold.

As for the red T-shirt, not forgotten but Sean is seen to be wearing it soon after the dog alerts and we all know what that means - spilled sea bass. .. big grin

by Markus 2 05.09.14 8:59

Mrs Healy, 61, has also repeated her concerns that efforts
are being made to frame her daughter. "I'm worried that evidence
is being planted," she said.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-495012/Kate-McCanns-mother-I-understand-children-left-alone.html#ixzz3CQTMIaBL
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
So was it her who mentioned the six bodies.?

by Bishop Brennan 05.09.14 9:05

stillsloppingout wrote:The more books , apologists ex / current police officers, MP's ,heads of media, spin doctors etc who continue to totally ignore all the clear evidence that points to the couple deeply upsets me ... Then I see the smug face of that Police commissioner in Rotherham who refuses to go .
my point it truly is a network .and more and more ,even though I have Imo I have always been in no doubt ,something very dark is the glue that binds .We live in a truly sick country as GA said it a very British desease. ( need quote ).

Taking a purely academic position, in a sense we are all privileged to be witnessing how a 21st Century cover-up / whitewash happens. All of us have read of historical cover-ups (Watergate / Saville) that date back many decades. But here we are seeing - right from the very first days - exactly how a white-wash is constructed and executed by the required mixture of people and organisations.

It's taken my breath away to see how blatant it can be and yet create little or no push-back in the media or elsewhere. On the one hand it's easier these days as there are no journalists left - simply reporters and presenters. And yet, the internet - twitter / blogs / forums do create a problem for whitewashes. The snag is that bloggers / forums have NO access to power - just to information.

And, as we have seen with Maddie, even when faced with a powerful internet presence, this simply pushes the whitewash to new levels using all elements of their power. In this case we have: TV, the police, publishers, the mainstream media, PR companies, and politicians all involved. It has been coordinated, multi-faceted, ongoing and entirely persistent in following the white-wash line. Not once has it even acknowledged the 'other' story or investigated it in any way.

This is a model whitewash that others will follow in the future. All we are waiting for now is to see how and when they close it down. We appear to be in the End Game.

by **Tony Bennett** 05.09.14 9:05

It seems that Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan haven't been learning their lines well enough - how unprofessional.

In his SkyNews interview earlier in the week, Summers referred to government agencies having made 'mistakes'. He hurriedly corrected himself and came up with a word not yet known to any English dictionary, saying, "er, they made 'mis-steps'."

Hilarious!

All the other major players in this have honed their acting skills and learnt their lines.

Come on Summers old chap, you'll have to do better when Lorraine Kelly has you on the sofa next week.

You mustn't make any mistakes.

Er, or should that be: 'mis-steps'?

ETA: Does anyone know please if this clip can still be viewed?

by pennylane 05.09.14 9:08

stillsloppingout wrote:The more books , apologists ex / current police officers, MP's ,heads of media, spin doctors etc who continue to totally ignore all the clear evidence that points to the couple deeply upsets me ... Then I see the smug face of that Police commissioner in Rotherham who refuses to go .
my point it truly is a network .and more and more ,even though I have Imo I have always been in no doubt ,something very dark is the glue that binds .We live in a truly sick country as GA said it a very British desease. ( need quote ).

Indeed, sso! There's a posse of putrid top professionals at the heart of this coverup!

by Doug D 05.09.14 9:16

Summer's 'mis-steps' at 4.49

by Markus 2 05.09.14 9:18

She told Panorama: "I'm worried that evidence is being planted."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-495012/Kate-McCanns-mother-I-understand-children-left-alone.html#ixzz3CQXhvRNu

But the British Police do not believe that it seems, only you Mrs Healy.

by **Tony Bennett** 05.09.14 9:34

Doug D wrote:

Summer's 'mis-steps' at 4.49

@ Doug D - Thanks so much for posting this full interview up so promptly. Having seen the whole interview now, I am astonished at the obvious insincerity of all three main interviewees: Gamble, Summers & Swan. Especially Swan.

@ Bishop Brennan - Thanks also for your post just above - IMO one of the best brief summations of the case ever placed on this forum, or anywhere.

@ Lance de Boils - Thanks also to you once again for reminding us of the evidence at Leveson by the former Chief Constable of Leicestershire, Matt Baggott, who said:

"On 8 May 2007 Leicestershire Constabulary was asked to co-ordinate the UK response to assist the Portuguese enquiry on behalf of the UK Government and Association of Chief Police Officers…a co-ordination group was set up on behalf of law enforcement agencies and government departments to coordinate the media interaction and ensure that a consistent stance was taken. This co-ordinating group was chaired by the Head of Corporate Communications from Leicestershire Constabulary. That group has continued to meet as required since 2007".

@ Okeydokey - Last but not least, thank you to you also for supplying us with this thought on Matt Baggott's statement above:

"That feeds into what I have always thought about the Gaspar statement - that it went through a multi-agency committee before being forwarded on to the Portugese authorities (after about FOUR months!).

One point I would make - don't take this at face value as a being Police-led. Whatever the formal set up (e.g. ACPO taking the formal lead), this multi-agency committee will have been controlled by central government. It will have done nothing without their say-so. It might be that material coming to that committee was in fact being forwarded on to a central government committee for vetting..."

by Liz Eagles 05.09.14 9:52

From 5mins 20secs, Leicester Police are reduced to plod status and much is made of an image of Leicestershire Police HQ's signpost covered in cobwebs.

by **Tony Bennett** 05.09.14 10:18

aquila wrote:From 5mins 20secs, Leicester Police are reduced to plod status and much is made of an image of Leicestershire Police HQ's signpost covered in cobwebs.

Yes, aquila, quite so, 'tiny' police force with 'inadequate resources'.

Yet Det Chief Supt Bob Small of Leics Police was in on the action from the very earliest days, along with colleagues from MI5, Control Risks Group, the British Ambassador, and others. He had a long chat with Jane Tanner hours before she adamantly identified Robert Murat as the man she claimed to have seen carrying a child on 3rd May (thus setting in motion the arrest of Murat, further claims by three Tapas 7 members that Murat had been seen around the Ocean Club that night, and then of course the sudden recollection by Martin Smith son's Peter that the family might have seen someone carrying a child 13 days previously).

And Det Supt Stuart ('Call me Stu') Prior co-ordinated, together with Dr Gerald McCann and Clarence Mitchell, one of the biggest ~~stories~~ non-stories of the whole Madeleine McCann case, the front page splash in Murdoch's News of the World at the end of January 2008 - the search for 'Monsterman'/'George Harrison Man' - and Mitchell's subsequent CrimeWatch-style appeal.

And we mustn't forget Prime Minister George Brown's visit to Leicestershire Police days after the McCanns returned from Portugal. One can be sure that that visit made damn sure that the co-ordination group knew exactly what their instructions were.

We can be sure, as per the observations of Lance de Boils and Okeydokey on Matt Baggott's Leveson evidence, that this co-ordination group involving people right at the top of the British government were co-ordinating every step.

Everything had been going swimmingly until Dr Goncalo Amaral by-passed this co-ordination group and, with the help of Mark Harrison and Lee Rainbow, got Martin Grime on board.

No wonder a senior MI5 member of staff, no doubt without a smile on his face and with folded arms, was waiting to confront Grime at Faro Airport as Grime flew back to England.

by TheTruthWillOut 05.09.14 10:50

This is what I don't get Tony:

Everything had been going swimmingly until Dr Goncalo Amaral by-passed this co-ordination group and, with the help of Mark Harrison and Lee Rainbow, got Martin Grime on board.

Why, if the government and their agencies were controlling and containing everything, would they allow GA to go behind their back and get Harrison, Rainbow and Grime in?

Wouldn't at least two of these require permission to go over to PDL from their bosses?

Them going over just doesn't fit in with all this for me. Especially as their reports are the evidence against the M's....

by sallypelt 05.09.14 10:52

I don't know if this has already been discussed on this thread, but I've been reading on Wiki that Summers once worked for the BBC's Panorama. This is taken from Wikipedia:

Anthony Bruce Summers (21 December 1942) is a Pulitzer Prize Finalist and author of eight best-selling non-fiction books.[1] He is an Irish citizen, and has been working for more than twenty years with Robbyn Swan, who is his co-author and fourth wife.[2] After studying modern languages at Oxford University, his early work took him from labouring jobs to freelance reporting to London newspapers, to Granada TV's World in Action[3] – the UK's first tabloid public affairs programme, to writing the news for the Swiss Broadcasting Corporation, then back to England to the BBC's 24 Hours, a pioneering late evening show that brought viewers coverage from all over the world. Summers became the BBC's youngest producer at 24, travelling worldwide and sending filmed reports from the conflicts in Vietnam and the Middle East, and across Latin America.[3][4][5] A main focus, though, was on the momentous events of the 60s and 70s in the United States – with on-the-spot reports on Martin Luther King's assassination and on Robert F. Kennedy's bid for the presidency. He smuggled cameras into the then Soviet Union to obtain the only TV interview with dissident physicist Andrei Sakharov – when he was under house arrest, having just won the Nobel Prize.[3] Before moving on from the BBC, Summers became an Assistant Editor of the prestigious weekly programme Panorama. Long based in Ireland, he has since the mid-70s concentrated on investigative non-fiction, usually taking from four to five years to produce a book – conducting in-depth research, combining digging in the documentary record with exhaustive interviewing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Summers

by waiting for justice 05.09.14 10:53

Doug D wrote:

Summer's 'mis-steps' at 4.49

Isn't all this just stepping around the blatantly obvious however eloquently written?

And this new group Gamble suggested putting together (and it just so happens that he's now self employed with company status to head it up were he offered) hasn't happened because the fact is, in reality how many children actually go missing each year? To warrant a special team sat there twiddling their thumbs for the most part.
Surely the last thing needed is yet another element added to the mix when it could just be put down to lessons learnt and better coordinated from within what already exists. No company IMO should have hands on these kinds of cases. It should all be dealt with by the police from day one.

He just seems to come across as yet another one who is chasing £££'s IMO.

by sallypelt 05.09.14 11:05

sallypelt wrote:I don't know if this has already been discussed on this thread, but I've been reading on Wiki that Summers once worked for the BBC's Panorama. This is taken from Wikipedia:

Anthony Bruce Summers (21 December 1942) is a Pulitzer Prize Finalist and author of eight best-selling non-fiction books.[1] He is an Irish citizen, and has been working for more than twenty years with Robbyn Swan, who is his co-author and fourth wife.[2] After studying modern languages at Oxford University, his early work took him from labouring jobs to freelance reporting to London newspapers, to Granada TV's World in Action[3] – the UK's first tabloid public affairs programme, to writing the news for the Swiss Broadcasting Corporation, then back to England to the BBC's 24 Hours, a pioneering late evening show that brought viewers coverage from all over the world. Summers became the BBC's youngest producer at 24, travelling worldwide and sending filmed reports from the conflicts in Vietnam and the Middle East, and across Latin America.[3][4][5] A main focus, though, was on the momentous events of the 60s and 70s in the United States – with on-the-spot reports on Martin Luther King's assassination and on Robert F. Kennedy's bid for the presidency. He smuggled cameras into the then Soviet Union to obtain the only TV interview with dissident physicist Andrei Sakharov – when he was under house arrest, having just won the Nobel Prize.[3] Before moving on from the BBC, Summers became an Assistant Editor of the prestigious weekly programme Panorama. Long based in Ireland, he has since the mid-70s concentrated on investigative non-fiction, usually taking from four to five years to produce a book – conducting in-depth research, combining digging in the documentary record with exhaustive interviewing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Summers

The Irish element in this sorry saga is interesting, to say the least. JG is Irish. Summers is "long based in Ireland". Martin Smith also lives in Ireland, and if we are to believe this above Wiki article that Summers is a meticulous researcher, and will burrow away for years to get to the truth, then he MUST have spoken to Martin Smith.

by Liz Eagles 05.09.14 11:11

waiting for justice wrote:
Doug D wrote:

Summer's 'mis-steps' at 4.49

Isn't all this just stepping around the blatantly obvious however eloquently written?

And this new group Gamble suggested putting together (and it just so happens that he's now self employed with company status to head it up were he offered) hasn't happened because the fact is, in reality how many children actually go missing each year? To warrant a special team sat there twiddling their thumbs for the most part.
Surely the last thing needed is yet another element added to the mix when it could just be put down to lessons learnt and better coordinated from within what already exists. No company IMO should have hands on these kinds of cases. It should all be dealt with by the police from day one.

He just seems to come across as yet another one who is chasing £££'s IMO.

Good post.

'Portugal Resident' comments on that Summers and Swan book - and suggest it's just 'propaganda'