Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

by polyenne 06.06.17 14:27

Yorkshirgel wrote:Well it is one view, and I am not denying it could be true. I also believe they know what happened and that she will never be found, and that is why they smirk when people report they have seen Madeleine and why they play the innocents. How else would you be so confident? However, if they admit they know she is dead then they will immediately be charged with Fraud for taking money under false pretences. That is why all these years later imo there is still no result and no arrests.

The wheels of the (money) train go round & round - that is why they won't stop with the BS.....................

by Yorkshirgel 06.06.17 14:37

....and as long as gullible people keep on giving because they believe them the longer this farce will carry on. Now they can afford to live the high life....on the back of their daughter of course.

by Verdi 06.06.17 16:18

Yorkshirgel wrote:It seems to me you cannot cherry pick the evidence to suit your own view.

What evidence are you referring to?

by Yorkshirgel 06.06.17 16:41

Any evidence that is available. Whatever is found in the police files for all to see. I was not meaning anyone in particular just people in general. You have to go by what is in front of you. I would equate it to a detective trying to fit the evidence and bend it to what he thinks might have happened instead of allowing the evidence to show the way.

eg. Dismissing the dogs evidence because you believe that dogs are not good at what they do. Dismissing the blood that leaked through the tiles because GM says M had nose-bleeds. Dismissing what Mrs Fen told the police or trying to say that it was K who was crying because it fits better to your way of thinking. In fact K was in the apartment according to the mobile 'phone signals when the sobbing was overheard, but Mrs Fen says it was a child not an adult.

by tara 06.06.17 17:19

'...you know they were just like angels.....white was the predominant colour....'
thus spake David Payne. I don't believe he went to the apartment on the evening of Thursday May 3rd but that this little tale was to give credence to the fabrication that Madeleine was still alive. I believe his choice of the words 'angels' and 'white' came to mind because that is how he saw Madeleine because she had already died and was with the angels. An embedded message perhaps, just as I often wonder whether 'leaving no stone unturned' is an embedded message of Madeleine's final resting place(though rocky ground would be very difficult to dig) and although Dr Amaral has suggested maybe a joint cremation of Madeleine with the deceased English lady in the Church in PDL, I can't make that theory fit with the evidence of cadaver odour in the hire car. I also understand that the Catholic faith does not take kindly to cremation, unless there are good reasons to justify it, and one would hope that if there was an ounce of respect and decency in the McCanns as parents in the loss of their little girl, that being the 'devout' Catholics they purport to be that burial would be chosen. But I thing I may be deluded......!
all in my opinion.

by Yorkshirgel 06.06.17 17:38

Close family members said 'they were not all that religious'.

by tara 06.06.17 17:58

Hi yorkshiregirl. I know they were said to be not that religious as time went on, though initially they were alleged to be 'devout' and they liked to give the impression that they were and hoodwinked the Pope as part of their game. It is sad to realise that, actually, they probably couldn't care less what they did to dispose of little Madeleine as long as they had covered their own backs. Appalling.IMO

by polyenne 06.06.17 18:34

You can do a lot when you have Hubbards help

by tara 06.06.17 18:46

Indeed you can

by **HiDeHo** 06.06.17 19:25

ll we know (according to the police files) is that Maddie died in the apartment, they hid her body and simulated an abduction...

Whatever happened to her, or what would be found on her body, had to be SO BIG that the crime of hiding her body and faking the abduction was worth the repercussions.

As I recall (would need to confirm Daniel Stuk statement) Gerry was playing tennis after 6pm and we know the T7 were at the Paraiso and didn't return back to the OC until after they were photographed at 6.13pm in the restaurant.

YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place - Page 3 Cctv10

Between 6.30pm and 8.30pm (if we believe Maddie died before Thursday night) then any last minute changes, preparations or discussions may have needed to be carried out.

Fiona going for a run, Russell seeing Kate and the children at tennis, Rachael not remembering if it was that night that Ella had a bath in their apartment and lots more contradictions and discrepancies tells us they were busy doing anything except what they claimed.

by polyenne 06.06.17 19:49

HideHo, it is such a HUMUNGOUS thing they've (all) done, that at one point, I almost convinced myself that it was designed to be a huge establishment exercise to understand how the great British public, and other unwitting parties (mainly Portuguese) would react to such an avalanche of disinformation, obfuscation and downright lies.

As it turned out, some are gullible (me initially), many give money but some (as I have) become a bit more suspicious and switched on.

Is it a practice run for some future event ?

by Verdi 06.06.17 22:01

Yorkshirgel wrote:....and as long as gullible people keep on giving because they believe them the longer this farce will carry on. Now they can afford to live the high life....on the back of their daughter of course.

I doubt very much the gullible public are still giving - that income source dried up many many months ago. The Find Madeleine Fund income bears witness to that simple fact.

On a wing and a prayer is the situation they find themselves in. Alas, Madeleine doesn't even have that to cling to.

by Verdi 06.06.17 22:25

Yorkshirgel wrote:Any evidence that is available. Whatever is found in the police files for all to see. I was not meaning anyone in particular just people in general. You have to go by what is in front of you. I would equate it to a detective trying to fit the evidence and bend it to what he thinks might have happened instead of allowing the evidence to show the way.

Pleased to hear it!

The only people I'm aware of that "cherry pick" are a) those who can't be bothered to check their facts so are floundering b) those who, for whatever reason, refuse to accept what's presented in the form of evidence and c) members of the McCann defence league who have an agenda.

That aside, off topic - again, so I'll resist the temptation to elaborate.

by jazega 06.06.17 23:19

HiDeHo wrote:Personally I don't doubt the possibility that he visited but it was nothing to do with any of the reasons in the statements.

Thursday evening was the culmination of the preparation for the 'abduction'.

The T7 had just returned from the Paraiso, Gerry was playing tennis (according to the tennis coach as I recall) and David Payne likely went to the apartment to help with preparations.

What we hear in the statements is a scenario created to redirect from what really WAS happening...

They all had their activities/alibis for that night planned, but unfortunately, Fiona Payne didnt have hers quite right and the police picked up on it, by having her admit she really didn't know what David Payne was doing during that time...

The contradictions tell us they were trying to hide the truth...

The reality was likely that the abduction plan as being put into place...

The enormity of the list (great list Tony) shows how difficult it is to have every detail in place when there is more than one person involved.

Contradictions/discrepancies like this started happening on Tuesday morning. Tells me there was something they were trying to hide as early in the week as that...

We know from the police files that she died, so WHY were they trying to hide the truth so early in the week?

IMO,one factor could be that it would give them and others outside the tapas group more time to work out how to dispose of the body,in a way that it would not physically exist.There had to be no remains of a body,hence the help of " outsiders"
Their logic,no dead body she is still alive.However KEELA & EDDIE indicated otherwise.

by Verdi 07.06.17 1:43

From where I'm standing, the documented weeks activities up until late afternoon on Thursday 3rd May 2007, as related by the McCanns and their group of friends, was wholly designed to disguise Madeleine McCann's absence during the week - including the groups visit to the beach and their short time at the Paraiso restaurant, minus the McCann faction, plus the conflicting tales of Madeleine's whereabouts during that day.

From late afternoon on Thursday 3rd May - the children's alleged high tea at the Tapas, featuring fictitious eye witnesses, followed by David Payne's claimed visit to apartment 5a (at various times and for a variety of reasons, depending on which version you read), were essentially designed to place a healthy living Madeleine in and around apartment 5a on that evening in preparation of the planned abduction theory and the alert on or around 10:00 pm.

Although the net result be intertwined, the two are distinctly separate by intention.

by roz 07.06.17 8:25

If Kate had decided to take a shower while the children were playing in the apartment, then that patio door would have to have been locked first.
I think if DP had entered that (locked) apartment and Kate was wrapped in a white towel, he would have been able to answer as to what she was ‘wearing’.
As others have said, this visit was invented to have a nice clean ‘live’ Madeleine playing contentedly with her brother and sister that evening before bed.
Without that ‘angelic picture’, we would be left with an image of a (normally lively) 4 year old being so tired after the crèche, that she had to be carried at 5.30pm to the apartment (according to K and G).
Perhaps Fiona P called in whilst she was out ‘jogging’. At the very least, if I was such a good friend to Kate as Fiona supposedly was, I would have called in to see why Kate and the children were not out at the play area, or watching the men at their tennis.
I imagine that if the final preparations were being put in place, (whether I knew or not about the impending ‘abduction’) I would have found an emotionally upset Kate inside that apartment.
I would be very reluctant to tell the police of this visit if my friend’s daughter was later ‘abducted’.

by polyenne 07.06.17 8:46

I find it hard to believe that, if Madeleine met her demise on the Sunday/Monday, that many, if not all of the Tapas 7 (perhaps with the exception of DW) would not be aware.

Even by taking meals separately, I cannot comprehend that they had an excuse for every day. I mean, they had to plan the abduction - that wasn't done in a few hours on the Thursday.

by Yorkshirgel 07.06.17 9:43

What I do not understand is that the friends all gathered round to support the parents. Why didn't someone have the guts to speak out and say what was being told to the police was not entirely accurate? The people playing with GM were witnesses, they could have said what went on re: GM and DP at the tennis court.

Why would any man carry on playing tennis and ask another man to go and check on his wife 'to see if she was alright'? Seems a strange thing to do to me.

I know that the Tapas crowd were given thousands of £s but I have not seen much said about it in the papers or the tv. I wonder if they are still 'friends'? They have all met up in England to discuss the case and their opinions of what happened in Praia da Luz. Personally I would want to distance myself from it all. You do not go on holiday to be questioned by police and put on the spot by so called 'friends'.

by polyenne 07.06.17 9:49

Personally I would want to distance myself from it all

They've certainly done that. I'm sure the meeting back in the UK was just prior to the Rogatory Interviews so that they could all get their stories right. Please correct me if wrong

by Yorkshirgel 07.06.17 9:58

I do not think you are wrong polyene! I think you are right. I wonder which colouring book they wrote their notes on this time?

I know about the meeting in England. Others know about the meeting, so the police must have known about the meeting too and yet they never asked any of the 'friends' what the meeting was about. Very strange. They could have asked why DP was asked to check on K while G carried on playing tennis while they were at it. I do not believe it ever happened. Nor do I believe there was an abduction either. But that is my opinion and, in a country that still has 'free speech', I am entitled to express it.

by Liz Eagles 07.06.17 10:44

If the Portuguese police can't fathom out the discrepancies in the statements and allowed the McCanns to leave their country whilst they were arguido status then that surely has to say a lot about the Portuguese investigation.