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Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

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Re: Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 19.12.13 13:38

Clay Regazzoni wrote:

I broadly agree. I'm no scientist, so others might cringe at this attempted comparison, but I think the truth is analogue rather than binary. I hope that makes sense. Even if you don't believe the likes of Shrimpton (or, in my own case, don't know what to make of him) then I'm absolutely sure that he is not completely incorrect - in amongst what he says are likely to be grains of truth. And vice versa, I wouldn't completely take at face value everything TB says either, although I would give it more weight based on my limited exposure to both men.

Just as if this case ever does come before a court, I wouldn't take any particular verdict, no matter how satisfying, as gospel either. I'm resigned that we'll never be party to all of the ins and outs of this matter.

I like your addition and agree, although it does make my saying about 1000% longer!  big grin 

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Re: Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

Post by Guest on 19.12.13 13:41

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
Clay Regazzoni wrote:

I broadly agree. I'm no scientist, so others might cringe at this attempted comparison, but I think the truth is analogue rather than binary. I hope that makes sense. Even if you don't believe the likes of Shrimpton (or, in my own case, don't know what to make of him) then I'm absolutely sure that he is not completely incorrect - in amongst what he says are likely to be grains of truth. And vice versa, I wouldn't completely take at face value everything TB says either, although I would give it more weight based on my limited exposure to both men.

Just as if this case ever does come before a court, I wouldn't take any particular verdict, no matter how satisfying, as gospel either. I'm resigned that we'll never be party to all of the ins and outs of this matter.

I like your addition and agree, although it does make my saying about 1000% longer!  big grin 

Everything is better 1000% longer.

Except perhaps The Sound Of Music....
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Re: Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

Post by tigger on 19.12.13 13:54

@Cristobell wrote:
@tigger wrote:From the above exchange between TB and C:

By the way, Cristobell, can we honestly call it 'a news channel'? What actual day-to-day news does it cover?  

REPLY TO TONY:  I err towards treating people with respect Tony. 2013-12-19
Unquote

It's very  nice weather  here for the time of year. I know, another non sequitur .

Btw I think you're treating people in general with respect TB, over and above what can be expected.

I thought a linguist such as your would have understood that exchange Tigger.  

Tony's remark implies that the TPV should be described in a derogatory fashion, that is: NOT a news channel.  I have no wish to slur TPV by engaging in word games about their description, ergo, I err towards treating people with respect.

I beg to differ, TB is simply posing a question (which you did not answer, such as 'I do think they are a news channel for the following reasons..etc ' ) the question is not a derogatory statement.
However it is implied in your answer that TB lacks respect. I'm sure you did not mean that, because that would be derogatory and that would go against your principles of honesty and integrity, not wishing to be unkind and so on. (Although that was in relation to the McCanns and may not apply across the board so to speak.)



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Re: Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

Post by Cristobell on 19.12.13 13:58

@tigger wrote:Cristobell wrote:
REPLY TO TONY:  As I said in previous post, it is not clear what those protesting against TPV want.  I am not seeing constructive criticism, just criticism. Fortunately, we do have Free Speech, and I don't know what you and others who feel so strongly about the guests TPV have had, do not offer to go Sonia's program to challenge the ideas that offend you most.  
Unquote

I put in a post which I consider to be constructive criticism - complete with suggestions.

It's on page one of this thread. You might have missed it.

REPLY:  Possibly, I will return to it.


How can PTV be an independent channel if they rely on donations to function? I would also assume that some people sat down and made some plans, drew up a schedule of sorts and then launched a new news channel. So one might expect a bit more from seasoned performers.

REPLY:  I would imagine that is the only way they can be independent.  We have seen the results of sole ownership in the newspaper industry.  



Icke has been in the public  eye for decades, SP is supposed to be an experienced journalist, surely they didn't meet up and said 'Let's do a show!'


REPLY:  It is probably much more complex than that.  





Although in the  only transcript I've read SP virtually had to do both sides of the interview herself which resulted in the curious situation where she asked all the right questions but most of the information came from her.  So she did do well there. Does SP choose who is going to be interviewed?  I would think not, so who does select  those to be interviewed and has selected those who have appeared so far?



REPLY:  I don't know the answers to those questions Tigger, but there is nothing to stop you contacting Sonia at TPV and asking her yourself.  

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Re: Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

Post by tigger on 19.12.13 14:04

@Cristobell wrote:
@tigger wrote:Cristobell wrote:
REPLY TO TONY:  As I said in previous post, it is not clear what those protesting against TPV want.  I am not seeing constructive criticism, just criticism. Fortunately, we do have Free Speech, and I don't know what you and others who feel so strongly about the guests TPV have had, do not offer to go Sonia's program to challenge the ideas that offend you most.  
Unquote

I put in a post which I consider to be constructive criticism - complete with suggestions.

It's on page one of this thread. You might have missed it.

REPLY:  Possibly, I will return to it.


How can PTV be an independent channel if they rely on donations to function? I would also assume that some people sat down and made some plans, drew up a schedule of sorts and then launched a new news channel. So one might expect a bit more from seasoned performers.

REPLY:  I would imagine that is the only way they can be independent.  We have seen the results of sole ownership in the newspaper industry.  



Icke has been in the public  eye for decades, SP is supposed to be an experienced journalist, surely they didn't meet up and said 'Let's do a show!'


REPLY:  It is probably much more complex than that.  





Although in the  only transcript I've read SP virtually had to do both sides of the interview herself which resulted in the curious situation where she asked all the right questions but most of the information came from her.  So she did do well there. Does SP choose who is going to be interviewed?  I would think not, so who does select  those to be interviewed and has selected those who have appeared so far?



REPLY:  I don't know the answers to those questions Tigger, but there is nothing to stop you contacting Sonia at TPV and asking her yourself.  

Surely you could tell us how you were selected? One may assume the same way as their other interviewees?

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Re: Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 19.12.13 14:10

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
Everything is better 1000% longer.

Except perhaps The Sound Of Music....

That genuinely made me laugh out loud! Twice! Laughing 

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Re: Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

Post by tiny on 19.12.13 14:12

@tigger wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
@tigger wrote:Cristobell wrote:
REPLY TO TONY:  As I said in previous post, it is not clear what those protesting against TPV want.  I am not seeing constructive criticism, just criticism. Fortunately, we do have Free Speech, and I don't know what you and others who feel so strongly about the guests TPV have had, do not offer to go Sonia's program to challenge the ideas that offend you most.  
Unquote

I put in a post which I consider to be constructive criticism - complete with suggestions.

It's on page one of this thread. You might have missed it.

REPLY:  Possibly, I will return to it.


How can PTV be an independent channel if they rely on donations to function? I would also assume that some people sat down and made some plans, drew up a schedule of sorts and then launched a new news channel. So one might expect a bit more from seasoned performers.

REPLY:  I would imagine that is the only way they can be independent.  We have seen the results of sole ownership in the newspaper industry.  



Icke has been in the public  eye for decades, SP is supposed to be an experienced journalist, surely they didn't meet up and said 'Let's do a show!'


REPLY:  It is probably much more complex than that.  





Although in the  only transcript I've read SP virtually had to do both sides of the interview herself which resulted in the curious situation where she asked all the right questions but most of the information came from her.  So she did do well there. Does SP choose who is going to be interviewed?  I would think not, so who does select  those to be interviewed and has selected those who have appeared so far?



REPLY:  I don't know the answers to those questions Tigger, but there is nothing to stop you contacting Sonia at TPV and asking her yourself.  

Surely  you could tell  us how you were selected? One may assume the same way as their other interviewees?

does it realy matter how cristobell got on the program,the fact that she was able to have her say on the Madeleine case is a feat on its own,
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Re: Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

Post by Cristobell on 19.12.13 14:28

@tigger wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
@tigger wrote:From the above exchange between TB and C:

By the way, Cristobell, can we honestly call it 'a news channel'? What actual day-to-day news does it cover?  

REPLY TO TONY:  I err towards treating people with respect Tony. 2013-12-19
Unquote

It's very  nice weather  here for the time of year. I know, another non sequitur .

Btw I think you're treating people in general with respect TB, over and above what can be expected.

I thought a linguist such as your would have understood that exchange Tigger.  

Tony's remark implies that the TPV should be described in a derogatory fashion, that is: NOT a news channel.  I have no wish to slur TPV by engaging in word games about their description, ergo, I err towards treating people with respect.

I beg to differ, TB is simply posing  a question (which you did not answer, such as 'I do think they are a news channel for the following reasons..etc ' )  the question  is not a derogatory statement.
However it is implied in your answer that TB lacks respect. I'm sure you did not mean that, because that would be derogatory and  that would go against your principles of honesty and integrity, not wishing to be unkind and so on. (Although that was in relation  to the McCanns and may not apply across the board so to speak.)


So much to debate - so little time.  I find the way in which a small, struggling, news station is described pedantic and do not wish to engage in word games that are intended to show TPV in a derogatory way.  

As to the question of respect, in my opinion, some members of this forum have been disrespectful to Sonia and TPV.  They are trying to create something new and innovative and being pilloried for it!

As to how I became a guest, I assume it because I am familiar with Sonia on twitter, she has read much of my work and she invited me.

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Re: Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

Post by chillyheat on 19.12.13 15:22



A very good watch....


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Re: Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

Post by Ristretto on 19.12.13 15:56

@Cristobell wrote:
@tigger wrote:From the above exchange between TB and C:

By the way, Cristobell, can we honestly call it 'a news channel'? What actual day-to-day news does it cover?  

REPLY TO TONY:  I err towards treating people with respect Tony. 2013-12-19
Unquote

It's very  nice weather  here for the time of year. I know, another non sequitur .

Btw I think you're treating people in general with respect TB, over and above what can be expected.

I thought a linguist such as your would have understood that exchange Tigger.  

Tony's remark implies that the TPV should be described in a derogatory fashion, that is: NOT a news channel.  I have no wish to slur TPV by engaging in word games about their description, ergo, I err towards treating people with respect.

I have to say that I am in agreement with Tigger on this. I don't see any connection between your reply to Tony and his original point.

I've looked hard at what he said and there is no derogatory implication in what he wrote. He asked a simple question, You had called TPV a news channel and he was asking you to explain that. I've been watching the channel quite a bit and I don't think even the owners would describe it as a news channel, its a comment channel, a place where people can express their views about all sorts of things which might occasionally include the news but often doesn't.

I think you are putting a meaning on the question Tony wrote which really isn't there at all and I think your original response to Tony's question shows this.

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Re: Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

Post by Woofer on 19.12.13 17:22

What IS going on?  I can`t believe what I`m reading here.

Does Cristobel deserve this constant picking and poking ....... this is not `the Inquisition` is it?  It certainly seems like it.  Not many of us have done as much for trying to expose the truth as Cristobel has done, yet there are a few people on this forum who continue to find fault and pick away at her for things she has already explained and things that are trivial and secondary to her aims (to all our aims).

Pick, pick, pick, pick - anyone else want to have a go at her?
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Re: Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

Post by Guest on 19.12.13 17:45

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkc0MMhvdeo

A quick snatch of the Spanish Inquisition which none of us could have expected!

Woofer, I am a bit puzzled I have to admit by what some posters are saying here about Cristobell.

It would be boring though if we agreed on everything.


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Re: Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 19.12.13 19:14

Sometimes it gets a bit more like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

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Re: Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

Post by Guest on 19.12.13 19:25

OK, you got me in stitches.
Well actually "they" did.

Hard to imagine, that it's really that long time ago there was some genuine humour with intellect.
Don't make me talk about today's ...
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Re: Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

Post by Tony Bennett on 19.12.13 20:44

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
So where does your knowledge of these people allegedly 'summrily banned' come from?

I'm not going to discuss this further publicly, I don't intend to create disruption.  We can discuss it privately if you like.  But it may surprise you to find that many people read this forum anonymously for years before creating an account.

REPLY: Evasion of a simple and reasonable question

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2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        

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Re: Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

Post by Guest on 19.12.13 21:10

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
So where does your knowledge of these people allegedly 'summrily banned' come from?

I'm not going to discuss this further publicly, I don't intend to create disruption.  We can discuss it privately if you like.  But it may surprise you to find that many people read this forum anonymously for years before creating an account.

REPLY: Evasion of a simple and reasonable question

Don't know how this has got onto bannings, but it is off topic, WLBTS has done as the forum rules suggest and will discuss privately with you Tony........... so can we please just debate the topic.
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Re: Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 19.12.13 21:42

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
So where does your knowledge of these people allegedly 'summrily banned' come from?

I'm not going to discuss this further publicly, I don't intend to create disruption.  We can discuss it privately if you like.  But it may surprise you to find that many people read this forum anonymously for years before creating an account.

REPLY: Evasion of a simple and reasonable question

I've sent you that information via private message, I have no intention of evading anything Tony, just not disrupting this thread any further with off-topic matters.

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Re: Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

Post by Tony Bennett on 19.12.13 22:07

candyfloss wrote:

Don't know how this has got onto bannings, but it is off topic...

Quite simple, candyfloss.

WLBTS was the first to raise the subject of bannings. He did so in a way that brought disrepute on the forum. I responded by defending the forum.

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2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        

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Re: Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

Post by Tony Bennett on 19.12.13 23:20

The topic is TPV and its record to date. The topic is not Cristobell.  The criticisms were specifically of TPV’s decision to interview the liar Robert Green on the Hollie Greig case and deny the Hollie Greig Hoax team, who have worked hard to expose the lies of him and Anne Greig, any interview or even a right of reply. This followed criticisms of TPV giving Stephen Birch 35 minutes air time to spout his rubbish about Madeleine McCann  and also Michael Shrimpton, who has also made outrageous and unsupported claims about the fate of Madeleine McCann.
I respond to those who basically support the actions of TPV to date, under a number of headings, A to J.  

A.  The Freedom of Speech argument:  

roy rovers: Freedom of speech?

NFWTD: Yes, I agree that the right to freedom of speech is paramount.

Woofer: People like Stephen Birch, Michael Shrimpton, Robert Green etc. should not be barred from expressing their views.

Cristobell: I respect their right to have an opinion and I respect the rights of those who want to listen to them. 

Cristobell: It is not clear what those protesting against TPV want.  I am not seeing constructive criticism, just criticism. Fortunately, we do have Free Speech.

WLBTS: “They must give rights of reply so `the people` can make up their own minds.

REPLY: Few people on this forum have greater reason for believing in true freedom of speech than I have. At issue here is the credibility of an internet TV station that chooses to give a platform to those with absurd and unsupported views. All of the three people named have freely expressed their bizarre and wrong views in public- no-one is arguing about that. So ‘Freedom of Speech’ is a false argument in this case. The issue is: what gives credibility to a TV reporting channel? I would suggest: accuracy, truth, quality research and analysis (things for which this forum is well-known).  

B.  Inviting ‘bonkers’ people to air their crackpot views:

Cristobell: I think all of the above characters are bonkers, but they are as entitled to their say as we are Tony, and people are entitled to make their own minds up.

REPLY:  Not on what purports to be a serious news and analysis channel. I agree with NFWTD’s responses: “In my opinion, having encountered Stephen Birch both here and on Facebook, I don't think there can be any doubt that he is mentally unbalanced. I'm still finding it hard to take anything that Stephen Birch says seriously though. I think he has mental health issues so I wouldn't use the tabloid friendly word bonkers to describe him”.

C.  They are new, give them a chance:

Cristobell: Like any new business they must test the water, see what works, and what doesn't… Far too soon to judge.

REPLY: New businesses will generally have researched and developed a good new product before launching.

WLBTS: I think TPV should be given more time to see if they can offer a greater range of views.

REPLY: A ‘greater range’ of views??? Greater than giving platforms to the likes of Stephen Birch, Robert Green and Michael Shrimpton?

D.  Disagreement is wonderful:

WLBTS: It's wonderful that lots of us don't agree

Woofer:  Give ALL the people a voice.

REPLY:  In general, debate and the free market place of ideas is fine. That’s a very different issue from a news/analysis station allowing people to spout utter rubbish. It fatally undermines that station’s credibility. Woofer’s suggestion amounts to allowing a proliferation of nutcases to air their views. That’s not journalism. That’s anarchy.

NFWTD: I do hope though that the Hollie Hoax group will try to get their views heard too.

REPLY: They have done, mainly via the internet. Unfortunately, few people have bothered to even look at the material produced by the Hollie Greig Hoax group. It’s clear now that TPV and Sonia Poulton will never give Hollie Greig Hoax a platform, despite Poulton’s false boast that ‘we will always give a right of reply’. That’s because Icke has bought the lies of Anne Greig and Robert Green and refuses to read what Hollie Greig Hoax have researched.   


E. Some people believe Green, Greig, Icke and Birch:

Woofer: You don`t believe Robert Green or Anne Greig - but some people do.  You don`t believe David Ike, but some people do.  You don`t believe Stephen Birch, but some people do… You are expecting everyone to believe you are the only one that`s right.

aiyoyo: Without both sides story its hard to tell what actually transpired

REPLY: Anyone who has taken the trouble to read all the material on Hollie Greig simply knows that Anne Greig and Robert Green have lied and lied again. Anyone who has done even a little reading around the Madeleine McCann case knows that Madeleine’s body is not buried at Robert Murat’s house and knows that the PJ didn’t plant DNA in the hired car. Icke may well be right about some things. He is unquestionably wrong about Hollie Greig. It may sound arrogant to some, but I am entitled to my views about Birch, Green and Shrimpton because of what I’ve researched about the Hollie Greig and Madeleine McCann cases.


F.  Cristobell’s comments:  As I said I am struggling to understand what it is those disprove of TPV want?

REPLY: I can’t understand how you can say that, I and others have made it plain. See my first reply above and tigger’s comments below.


It simply isn't practical for a small news station to research story or any other story to the depth that we have.

REPLY:  Then they shouldn’t attempt to cover it. That’s precisely why they’ve already fallen into error over Green, Birch and Shrimpton.  

Tony's remark implies that the TPV should be described in a derogatory fashion, that is: NOT a news channel.

REPLY:  Completely wrong assumption, Cristobell, as tigger and others have pointed out. TPV can be likened to a blog. It is nothing like a news service.

As to the question of respect, in my opinion, some members of this forum have been disrespectful to Sonia and TPV.  They are trying to create something new and innovative and being pilloried for it!

REPLY:  They are not being criticised for being ‘new and innovative’. They are simply being criticised for putting out utter rubbish. I would have thought that you would have been in the forefront of demanding much higher standards.  


G.  Clay Regazzoni’s comments:

I think you should be relaxed about TPV, I usually find it is apparent when somebody is talking rubbish, but having to sort the wheat from the chaff is the price we must pay for being presented with both the wheat and the chaff in the first place. I wouldn't like it any other way.

REPLY: Any news/analysis channel should strive to put out wheat all the time, not chaff. I can’t be ‘relaxed’ about TPV’s coverage of Hollie Greig because they have given a voice to liars who have falsely claimed that 31 people raped Hollie over a sustained period of 14 years, and denied a voice to those who have exposed this cruel fraud. If you are ‘relaxed’ about TVP putting out lies and denying a voice to those who have worked so hard to unravel the truth, then we are indeed miles apart on that issue.   

H.  Woofer’s comments:  There are a few people on this forum who continue to find fault and pick away at her for things she has already explained.

REPLY: Not me, as you know - indeed I have praised Cristobell on another thread for having the courage to air her views.

The more air time Robert Green gets, the more of a nelly he appears

REPLY: With respect, and if you would look further into the case, ‘nelly’ is the right word. You’ve said you’ve seen the YouTube videos by Sylvia Major and Wyn Dragon-Smith and been convinced by them. If you were able to research the full extent of the deceit and the damage they have caused to wholly innocent people, you wouldn’t call him a ‘nelly’. You would call hi ma fraud and a liar, as I have done.  

As for Stephen Birch, he has highlighted many important details which the MSM have not

REPLY: Such as??? Not the planting of DNA by the PJ I hope? Nor three people digging up a driveway on the evening of 3 May I hope? Nor his claim that the truth about Madeleine is being covered up because of the UK-Portuguese trade agreement?

I.  Some sane views from tigger:

It's pointless to gush over one interviewee and possibly at some point in time interview another with an opposing point of view on that topic.

By that time the audience will have long forgotten the first point of view.

The task of the interviewer is to manage the debate, having thoroughly read up on the subject themselves  and prepared some questions.

HideHo has tirelessly and for no pay at all - quite the opposite - created and posted clear and referenced videos on the internet, views of which run in the millions. Now that, to my mind is using freedom of speech in an effective way.

The Hollie Greig affair shows the PTV up for what it is, a channel with an agenda, in other words it doesn't contain what it says on the packet.

PTV should have gathered information from both sides of the case before they ever broadcast anything. That's called preparation.

It looks as if anyone requesting airtime for their particular  purpose is getting it -  surely it's rather strange, these haphazard  set of interviews

TB is simply posing a question (which you did not answer, such as 'I do think they are a news channel for the following reasons,.etc .) – his question is not a derogatory statement.

However it is implied in your answer that TB lacks respect. I'm sure you did not mean that, because that would be derogatory and that would go against your principles of honesty and integrity, not wishing to be unkind and so on.

J.  And from Mirage:

My instinct is not to trust it I'm afraid. We desperately need a message sent to the MSM that swathes of the populace are disenchanted with biased reporting. This is not the response. I would suggest she gets her teeth into something resembling serious journalism instead of randomly issuing invites to all-comers with no thought to balancing viewpoints…if it does not have the gravitas required for the job [then it will] prove counter-productive in the end when the mockery sets in.

++++++++++

In conclusion, if people feel that all is going as well as can be expected at TPV, and that people should not stop by and take them to task, then I am content to agree to disagree - and 'move on', as they say. 

____________________


2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        

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Re: Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

Post by Cristobell on 20.12.13 0:01

Many thanks for your very fair reply Tony.  I accept most of what you say, the rest I can live with  yes You and I, are opposite ends of the spectrum on most things, but we are all here for Justice for Madeleine, and I truly do believe there is now an end in sight.

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Re: Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

Post by Guest on 20.12.13 0:07

FWIW & IMO

PVTV is as important as the next one on the street corner. They may be right, they may be wrong, but very few people will take notice. I welcome wholeheartedly any endeavour to allow free speech and freedom of opinion. I wish there would be more. I'm afraid, though, that PVTV will be short-lived, as they may not outgrow the street corner speaker. They have, IMO again, tried to stir up things for the benefit of getting attention, growing numbers, getting funds to continue - with no offense meant to anyone - rather than researched and solidly documented items.

Pity. sad 
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Re: Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

Post by aiyoyo on 20.12.13 0:21

@ TB
aiyoyo: Without both sides story its hard to tell what actually transpired

REPLY: Anyone who has taken the trouble to read all the material on Hollie Greig simply knows that Anne Greig and Robert Green have lied and lied again. Anyone who has done even a little reading around the Madeleine McCann case knows that Madeleine’s body is not buried at Robert Murat’s house and knows that the PJ didn’t plant DNA in the hired car. Icke may well be right about some things. He is unquestionably wrong about Hollie Greig. It may sound arrogant to some, but I am entitled to my views about Birch, Green and Shrimpton because of what I’ve researched about the Hollie Greig and Madeleine McCann cases.

Oh dearie me, what a rant! And, I haven't a clue what all that is about?

Apparently you''ve missed my point.
I said I don't know what transpired between complainant (member of this forum) and Sonia that warranted that exchange from Sonia.
That's the both sides I was referring to.  Absolutely nothing to do with all that you're disgruntle about.
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Re: Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

Post by aquila on 20.12.13 4:17

@Tony Bennett wrote:The topic is TPV and its record to date. The topic is not Cristobell.  The criticisms were specifically of TPV’s decision to interview the liar Robert Green on the Hollie Greig case and deny the Hollie Greig Hoax team, who have worked hard to expose the lies of him and Anne Greig, any interview or even a right of reply. This followed criticisms of TPV giving Stephen Birch 35 minutes air time to spout his rubbish about Madeleine McCann  and also Michael Shrimpton, who has also made outrageous and unsupported claims about the fate of Madeleine McCann.
I respond to those who basically support the actions of TPV to date, under a number of headings, A to J.  

A.  The Freedom of Speech argument:  

roy rovers: Freedom of speech?

NFWTD: Yes, I agree that the right to freedom of speech is paramount.

Woofer: People like Stephen Birch, Michael Shrimpton, Robert Green etc. should not be barred from expressing their views.

Cristobell: I respect their right to have an opinion and I respect the rights of those who want to listen to them. 

Cristobell: It is not clear what those protesting against TPV want.  I am not seeing constructive criticism, just criticism. Fortunately, we do have Free Speech.

WLBTS: “They must give rights of reply so `the people` can make up their own minds.

REPLY: Few people on this forum have greater reason for believing in true freedom of speech than I have. At issue here is the credibility of an internet TV station that chooses to give a platform to those with absurd and unsupported views. All of the three people named have freely expressed their bizarre and wrong views in public- no-one is arguing about that. So ‘Freedom of Speech’ is a false argument in this case. The issue is: what gives credibility to a TV reporting channel? I would suggest: accuracy, truth, quality research and analysis (things for which this forum is well-known).  

B.  Inviting ‘bonkers’ people to air their crackpot views:

Cristobell: I think all of the above characters are bonkers, but they are as entitled to their say as we are Tony, and people are entitled to make their own minds up.

REPLY:  Not on what purports to be a serious news and analysis channel. I agree with NFWTD’s responses: “In my opinion, having encountered Stephen Birch both here and on Facebook, I don't think there can be any doubt that he is mentally unbalanced. I'm still finding it hard to take anything that Stephen Birch says seriously though. I think he has mental health issues so I wouldn't use the tabloid friendly word bonkers to describe him”.

C.  They are new, give them a chance:

Cristobell: Like any new business they must test the water, see what works, and what doesn't… Far too soon to judge.

REPLY: New businesses will generally have researched and developed a good new product before launching.

WLBTS: I think TPV should be given more time to see if they can offer a greater range of views.

REPLY: A ‘greater range’ of views??? Greater than giving platforms to the likes of Stephen Birch, Robert Green and Michael Shrimpton?

D.  Disagreement is wonderful:

WLBTS: It's wonderful that lots of us don't agree

Woofer:  Give ALL the people a voice.

REPLY:  In general, debate and the free market place of ideas is fine. That’s a very different issue from a news/analysis station allowing people to spout utter rubbish. It fatally undermines that station’s credibility. Woofer’s suggestion amounts to allowing a proliferation of nutcases to air their views. That’s not journalism. That’s anarchy.

NFWTD: I do hope though that the Hollie Hoax group will try to get their views heard too.

REPLY: They have done, mainly via the internet. Unfortunately, few people have bothered to even look at the material produced by the Hollie Greig Hoax group. It’s clear now that TPV and Sonia Poulton will never give Hollie Greig Hoax a platform, despite Poulton’s false boast that ‘we will always give a right of reply’. That’s because Icke has bought the lies of Anne Greig and Robert Green and refuses to read what Hollie Greig Hoax have researched.   


E. Some people believe Green, Greig, Icke and Birch:

Woofer: You don`t believe Robert Green or Anne Greig - but some people do.  You don`t believe David Ike, but some people do.  You don`t believe Stephen Birch, but some people do… You are expecting everyone to believe you are the only one that`s right.

aiyoyo: Without both sides story its hard to tell what actually transpired

REPLY: Anyone who has taken the trouble to read all the material on Hollie Greig simply knows that Anne Greig and Robert Green have lied and lied again. Anyone who has done even a little reading around the Madeleine McCann case knows that Madeleine’s body is not buried at Robert Murat’s house and knows that the PJ didn’t plant DNA in the hired car. Icke may well be right about some things. He is unquestionably wrong about Hollie Greig. It may sound arrogant to some, but I am entitled to my views about Birch, Green and Shrimpton because of what I’ve researched about the Hollie Greig and Madeleine McCann cases.


F.  Cristobell’s comments:  As I said I am struggling to understand what it is those disprove of TPV want?

REPLY: I can’t understand how you can say that, I and others have made it plain. See my first reply above and tigger’s comments below.


It simply isn't practical for a small news station to research story or any other story to the depth that we have.

REPLY:  Then they shouldn’t attempt to cover it. That’s precisely why they’ve already fallen into error over Green, Birch and Shrimpton.  

Tony's remark implies that the TPV should be described in a derogatory fashion, that is: NOT a news channel.

REPLY:  Completely wrong assumption, Cristobell, as tigger and others have pointed out. TPV can be likened to a blog. It is nothing like a news service.

As to the question of respect, in my opinion, some members of this forum have been disrespectful to Sonia and TPV.  They are trying to create something new and innovative and being pilloried for it!

REPLY:  They are not being criticised for being ‘new and innovative’. They are simply being criticised for putting out utter rubbish. I would have thought that you would have been in the forefront of demanding much higher standards.  


G.  Clay Regazzoni’s comments:

I think you should be relaxed about TPV, I usually find it is apparent when somebody is talking rubbish, but having to sort the wheat from the chaff is the price we must pay for being presented with both the wheat and the chaff in the first place. I wouldn't like it any other way.

REPLY: Any news/analysis channel should strive to put out wheat all the time, not chaff. I can’t be ‘relaxed’ about TPV’s coverage of Hollie Greig because they have given a voice to liars who have falsely claimed that 31 people raped Hollie over a sustained period of 14 years, and denied a voice to those who have exposed this cruel fraud. If you are ‘relaxed’ about TVP putting out lies and denying a voice to those who have worked so hard to unravel the truth, then we are indeed miles apart on that issue.   

H.  Woofer’s comments:  There are a few people on this forum who continue to find fault and pick away at her for things she has already explained.

REPLY: Not me, as you know - indeed I have praised Cristobell on another thread for having the courage to air her views.

The more air time Robert Green gets, the more of a nelly he appears

REPLY: With respect, and if you would look further into the case, ‘nelly’ is the right word. You’ve said you’ve seen the YouTube videos by Sylvia Major and Wyn Dragon-Smith and been convinced by them. If you were able to research the full extent of the deceit and the damage they have caused to wholly innocent people, you wouldn’t call him a ‘nelly’. You would call hi ma fraud and a liar, as I have done.  

As for Stephen Birch, he has highlighted many important details which the MSM have not

REPLY: Such as??? Not the planting of DNA by the PJ I hope? Nor three people digging up a driveway on the evening of 3 May I hope? Nor his claim that the truth about Madeleine is being covered up because of the UK-Portuguese trade agreement?

I.  Some sane views from tigger:

It's pointless to gush over one interviewee and possibly at some point in time interview another with an opposing point of view on that topic.

By that time the audience will have long forgotten the first point of view.

The task of the interviewer is to manage the debate, having thoroughly read up on the subject themselves  and prepared some questions.

HideHo has tirelessly and for no pay at all - quite the opposite - created and posted clear and referenced videos on the internet, views of which run in the millions. Now that, to my mind is using freedom of speech in an effective way.

The Hollie Greig affair shows the PTV up for what it is, a channel with an agenda, in other words it doesn't contain what it says on the packet.

PTV should have gathered information from both sides of the case before they ever broadcast anything. That's called preparation.

It looks as if anyone requesting airtime for their particular  purpose is getting it -  surely it's rather strange, these haphazard  set of interviews

TB is simply posing a question (which you did not answer, such as 'I do think they are a news channel for the following reasons,.etc .) – his question is not a derogatory statement.

However it is implied in your answer that TB lacks respect. I'm sure you did not mean that, because that would be derogatory and that would go against your principles of honesty and integrity, not wishing to be unkind and so on.

J.  And from Mirage:

My instinct is not to trust it I'm afraid. We desperately need a message sent to the MSM that swathes of the populace are disenchanted with biased reporting. This is not the response. I would suggest she gets her teeth into something resembling serious journalism instead of randomly issuing invites to all-comers with no thought to balancing viewpoints…if it does not have the gravitas required for the job [then it will] prove counter-productive in the end when the mockery sets in.

++++++++++

In conclusion, if people feel that all is going as well as can be expected at TPV, and that people should not stop by and take them to task, then I am content to agree to disagree - and 'move on', as they say. 
 bravo

What an absolutely outstanding post. howdy
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Re: Another serious blunder for Sonia Poulton and 'The People's Voice' - They interview Robert Green, but refuse to interview the Hollie Greig Hoax Team

Post by Tony Bennett on 20.12.13 7:55

@aiyoyo wrote:
Oh dearie me, what a rant! And, I haven't a clue what all that is about?

Apparently you''ve missed my point.

I said I don't know what transpired between complainant (member of this forum) and Sonia that warranted that exchange from Sonia. That's the both sides I was referring to.  Absolutely nothing to do with all that you're disgruntled about.

OK, I'm pleased to accept the correction; in composing a 'omnibus' reply, I didn't realise you were referring just to the narrow issue of who said what between Sonia Poulton and Jon Stevenson. I think however that the Twitter conversation alone reveals the reasonable approach of the Hollie Greig Hoax team.

If you look at one of Sonia Poulton's broadcasts, she boasts, with evident pride, of how - and I quote: "We will always give a right of reply".

The failure to give Hollie Greig Hoax the right of reply is bad in itself, and agaisnt the normal rules of fair broadcasting.

It is made many times worse because Sonia Poulton has broken her own promise - just days after sahe made it.

But the matter is made hundreds of times worse because David Icke, TPV and Sonia Poulton have backed a disturbed liar (Anne Greig) and a fraud (Robert Green) who have manufactured and grossly distorted evidence, and have rejected the appeal from Hollie Greig Hoax to air their comprehensively researched evidence of how this disgraceful hoax was perpetrated.

They are all complicit in a serious lie which has wrongly levellled the dangerous accusation of 'paedophile' against 31 people (some of whom don't actually exist). 

I'm sorry if this comes over as a rant. But the wickedness of Anne Greig and Robert Green really can't be over-estimated

____________________


2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        

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McCanns apt & hire car


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Retired DCI Gonçalo Amaral: "The English can always present the conclusions to which they themselves arrived in 2007. Because they know, they have the evidence of what happened - they don't need to investigate anything. All this is now a mere 'show off'."

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Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley made public on national TV that Operation Grange is a complete fraud.

Ex-DCI Andy Redwood had a "revelation moment" on BBC's Crimewatch on 14th October 2013 when he announced that Operation Grange had eliminated the Tanner sighting - which opened up the 'window of opportunity', in accordance with their remit, to allow the fake abduction to happen.

Despite "irrelevant behaviour" from blood and cadaver dogs in the McCann's apartment, on Kate McCann's clothes, and in the car they hired three weeks after Maddie disappeared, Ex-Chief Inspector, Ian Horrocks, said: "The thought that Kate and Gerry McCann had anything to do with the death of their daughter is frankly preposterous."

Gerry McCann called for example to be made of 'trolls'. SKY News reporter Martin Brunt doorstepped Brenda Leyland on 2 October 2014. She was then found dead in a Leicester hotel room. Brenda paid the price. She paid with her life.

Ex-Deputy Chief Constable, Jim Gamble QPM, congratulated SKY reporter, Martin Brunt, on twitter for doorstepping Brenda Leyland on behalf of Gerry McCann.

Prime Minister Theresa May introduces Prime Suspect Kate McCann to Royalty: The Duchess of Gloucester.

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