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Snake deaths

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autopsy

Post by marconi on 07.08.13 9:40

Autopsy wil reveal the presence of the snake's  DNA on the boys' bodies  and especially around their neck. Also on the sheets and blankets.
If it fell down through a hole, there must be DNA to  be found as well.
 
Myself I have no knowledge  of snakes but I believe their DNA is easy to be traced.
 
10 years without any problem and exactly a serious one on that particular night.  Bad luck happens.
 
I wonder why the ownor went so early in the morning to check on the boys. they were on holidays, weren't they?

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Re: Snake deaths

Post by PeterMac on 07.08.13 9:44

@marconi wrote:
I wonder why the ownor went so early in the morning to check on the boys. they were on holidays, weren't they?
Perhaps he was checking every half hour ! Or just listening at the door for sounds of strangulation.
There are still many pieces missing in this puzzle.
Remember a post mortem examines the entire body, not just neck and chest.

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freemason

Post by marconi on 07.08.13 9:54

@PeterMac wrote:
@marconi wrote:
I wonder why the ownor went so early in the morning to check on the boys. they were on holidays, weren't they?
Perhaps he was checking every half hour !  Or just listening at the door for sounds of strangulation.
There are still many pieces missing in this puzzle.
Remember a post mortem examines the entire body, not just neck and chest.

 who knows the snake was a freemason.

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midnight

Post by marconi on 07.08.13 11:01

@marconi wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@marconi wrote:
I wonder why the ownor went so early in the morning to check on the boys. they were on holidays, weren't they?
Perhaps he was checking every half hour !  Or just listening at the door for sounds of strangulation.
There are still many pieces missing in this puzzle.
Remember a post mortem examines the entire body, not just neck and chest.

 who knows the snake was a freemason.

 it seems that the ownor-couple and the mother +somebody else had nice chats till midnight when the mother +somebody went home. If that is true, where did the siblings sleep till midnight?

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Re: Snake deaths

Post by jozi on 07.08.13 12:09

Boa Constructors do not crush bones they restrict the rib cage so you cannot breath and they don't strangle the prey and slither away without eating .This is a very a strange tale, poor kids.R.I.P.
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Re: Snake deaths

Post by Ayniia on 07.08.13 13:15

@jozi wrote:Boa Constructors do not crush bones they restrict the rib cage so you cannot breath and they don't strangle the prey and slither away without eating .This is a very a strange tale, poor kids.R.I.P.
Exactly. They do not kill and then go away. Animals kill to eat, period.

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Re: Snake deaths

Post by russiandoll on 07.08.13 13:28

Interesting but unpleasant reading : there are cases of constricting snakes causing death by strangulation rather then constriction of the trunk.

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Re: Snake deaths

Post by littlepixie on 07.08.13 13:45

I owned a Pet Shop for years and lived above it. I never bought snakes to sell on. You would not believe the number of snakes we had brought in that had been "found" after escaping. People would find them everywhere. They would move in a new house and one would appear that the previous occupants lost months ago and never mentioned or they would live in a flat and one would appear that had escaped from someone elses flat. One man went to put his bin bags out and discovered a snake underneath the bin bags. People just dont realise how strong a snake is. They can and do break out of anywhere.  People also dump them everywhere.

There are many that are also abandoned after the novelty of them wears off or they grow too big to handle or the owner finds buying dead rabbits and rats too expensive. They are not fed, cleaned or looked after.

I used to tell customers who owned large constrictors and had little kids or small dogs that they were stupid, that their snake was quite capable of eating their kids. They looked at me as if I was stupid! It was a certain kind of person who owned a large snake, a bit like the person who owns a large status dog. 

That snake would not have crushed those children then moved on. They would have been half way down its throat when they found them unless the snake had tried to swallow them and decided they were too big. Then there would be obvious signs that it had done so.
The story doesn't ring true.
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Re: Snake deaths

Post by aiyoyo on 07.08.13 14:00

@aquila wrote:Two children have died - God rest their souls. The circumstances of this dreadful tragedy aren't absolutely clear and there is a police investigation.

I know I'm probably going to get lamped for this comment but why was the snake killed? was it necessary to kill the snake for forensic purposes? can't a snake be sedated for that purpose? what did the snake do wrong apart from behaving naturally? this isn't a rabid, savage animal with a compulsion/lust for attacking humans. It's a snake who will eat anything if it's hungry enough.

I am no lover of snakes - I can't stand them in fact and don't understand why people keep them as pets but I don't know why the snake had to die too.

God bless these two children. Another two children gone from this world. All that is left for them and everyone else is to find justice for them which I am certain the Canadian police will achieve.

Exactly!
Me too, I have a natural repulsion to legless slimy and slithering creature.
But I don't understand why the snake had to be put down.
It's not too late to at least wait until forensics evidence is cast iron proof evidence against the snake before sentencing the snake to death by lethal injection. I reckon they think if the snake is harmful then it might escape and harm again. But that's a premature assumption given that the pathologist's verdict isn't out yet.

The adults are to blame for the tragedy. How can they have python in the same house as the sleeping children and not take precaution to make sure the snake is securely confined.



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post mortem

Post by marconi on 08.08.13 1:38

According to Canada, the snake killed the siblings.
Post mortem revealed that it was well treated and healthy. The boys spent the day playing with animals and doctors believe that the scent of the animals on their bodies attrackted the python.
What a tragedy!

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Re: Snake deaths

Post by aiyoyo on 08.08.13 10:14

You would think that a 100-lb creature falling through the ceiling would wake up the dead, but 'no' the householders slept (apparently) through oblivious to it. Even the boys were not awoken by the sudden thud in their room.
I still cannot get over how the snake asphyxiated two boys. One maybe but two?

Were the adults negligence in anyway? I wonder whether the pet-shop owner will be punished for keeping exotic pets in the house?

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Re: Snake deaths

Post by Guest on 08.08.13 10:51

Has it been clarified on which floor the boys were sleeping? Reports say that the snake was on the second floor, the North American meaning; the first floor by U K standards.
 
The boys were in the living room which I would have thought was unlikely to be on the ground floor with the shop (though it's possible of course) and, if it was on the upper level, how did the snake fall through the ceiling onto them?
 
Link added: http://news.sky.com/story/1125914/canada-snake-attack-boys-died-of-asphyxiation

Okay, the snake did do it.
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Re: Snake deaths

Post by whmon on 08.08.13 11:05

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Has it been clarified on which floor the boys were sleeping? Reports say that the snake was on the second floor, the North American meaning; the first floor by U K standards.

The boys were in the living room which I would have thought was unlikely to be on the ground floor with the shop (though it's possible of course) and, if it was on the upper level, how did the snake fall through the ceiling onto them?

 I believe the snake was in its floor to ceiling enclosure in the living room and got out via a ventilation shaft on the ceiling of its enclosure. It must have fallen through the ceiling back into the living room. The children as we know were asleep in the living room.

A very sad and tragic accident. Still - it would make a feasible plot for a crime movie: snake expert ensures that two children are covered in animal scent before putting them down to sleep by the ventilated enclosure of a large snake before going to bed and not hearing a ceiling falling in or children screaming.

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Re: Snake deaths

Post by PeterMac on 08.08.13 11:12

It was a very large and very heavy snake. Could it merely have rested across the throats or faces of the two small children ? They would not have had the strength to dislodge it, and might have been unconscious in a very short time.

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Re: Snake deaths

Post by Tony Bennett on 08.08.13 11:55

EXTRACTS FROM THE NEWS REPORTS

their friend’s father — who found the boys dead after the 14-foot snake slithered into the room where the pair was sleeping.

preliminary autopsy results on the two boys conducted Wednesday revealed that they died of asphyxiation.

"While we now have some preliminary information, investigators still have to wait for other test results to come back and for the final report," Sgt. Alain Tremblay…

The boys were spending Sunday night at Jean-Claude Savoie’s apartment, which is just above his Reptile Ocean pet store

Investigators initially suspected the massive serpent broke free from a tank inside the exotic pet store, but Royal Canadian Mounted Police Sgt. Alain Tremblay said Wednesday that the snake was being kept inside the apartment when it broke loose.

Once it escaped from its enclosure, the snake slithered through a ventilation duct before it fell through a hole in the ceiling above where the boys were sleeping.

A snake expert told the Associated Press that the rogue python was likely spooked by the fall and clung to the sleeping children when it landed.

Savoie, who is best friends with the children’s father, found the bodies early Monday morning.

Savoie told the station that he thought the kids were sleeping until he saw a hole in the ceiling.

Savoie caged the python before authorities arrived a short time later.

The snake got into the ventilation and fell through the ceiling above the boys' room.

Police also contacted Bry Loyst, a curator of the Indian River Reptile Zoo in Ontario who said investigators told him that it wasn’t the first time the python broke free from its cage, the AP reported.

Loyst suggested that the snake may have been attracted to the boys because they carried the scent of other animals that they had played with at the pet store.

+++++++++++++

Er, so this is what happened?

The boys were having a sleepover at Savoie's.

So was the snake. It wasn't in the Reptile Centre as usual but was having a sleepover in the apartment as well.

The snake sniffed animal scent on the boys who were in another room...and had been touching other animals during the day...

It escaped from its enclosure [Not for the first time] and, attracted by the smell, found its way to a ventilation duct...

It made its way up/down/along this ventilation duct and made its way along the ceiling...

[This next bit is where I get a bit confused]

Did its weight cause part of the ceiling to collapse?

OR

Was there a hole already there?

OR

Attracted by the animal smells, did the python attempt (successfully) to bash its way through the ceiling?

Then it 'fell' through the ceiling to where the boys were sleeping

OR (as it says elsewhere) it slithered into the room

Well maybe it slithered into the room above and then fell into the room below

Whereupon it was 'spooked' or suffered some kind of trauma and needed a cuddle

And either wrapped itself around the boys in turn OR (per PeterMac) its weight asphyxiated them

And then Savoie just happened to look in, thought that the boys were asleep

But suddenly, in the dim light in the middle of the night

Saw a hole in the ceiling

And thought

I wonder how that got there?

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Re: Snake deaths

Post by PeterMac on 08.08.13 12:02

Or not. As the case may be !
We need to await further evidence from the moose-munching Canadian police.

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Re: Snake deaths

Post by aiyoyo on 08.08.13 13:37

@PeterMac wrote:It was a very large and very heavy snake. Could it merely have rested across the throats or faces of the two small children ? They would not have had the strength to dislodge it, and might have been unconscious in a very short time.

Possibly.

The boys would have to be sleeping close together literally side by side next to each other.
If there was distance between them two, the weight of snake mass would have to be stretched out horizontally in order to cover the two boys. Is this possible?
One would have thought that when collapsing from the ceiling the snake would inevitably have landed in a heap, as in coiled up mass. The impact of a 100-lb mass falling from say a 10ft high ceiling is probably enough to smash a few bones of young children, or leave bruises on soft tissues, where it landed.

If the snake had slithered into the room then it is a different story all together. If the animal smell was the attractant for the snake why would it slithers across the faces/throats of two boys?
If the snake had escaped from its enclosure, and then fallen by accident, what has smell attractant got anything to do with it?




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boys

Post by marconi on 08.08.13 13:59

Two boys lost their lives in a terrible accident. I believe the explanation of the police. They have to try to make a reconstruction of the facts,  if it is possile. Maybe the children ate meat that evening and  they were breathing its scent too and they were sleeping very close to each other, I presume on a sofa.

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Re: Snake deaths

Post by aquila on 08.08.13 14:07

I've encountered snakes around my home and in the wild. Some are fierce buggers and some are just creatures looking for a quiet existence. None of them like to be disturbed or alarmed in anyway. Some of them will get into your house and you have to deal with the situation. That's to be expected if you live in a place where there are snakes.

Why anyone has a snake as a pet beats me. The African rock python can be aggressive. It attacks if cornered or threatened (most wild creatures do actually). Why would someone keep such a creature and encourage children to their home/pet shop?....I think you see where I'm going with this....and it's only an observation.

Here is a quote from DM today

"
Ms Fournier told MailOnline that Mr Savoie operated Reptile Ocean as both a pet shop and as a zoo. He kept numerous snakes and lizards and small crocodiles to sell, but he hosted tour groups.
'He always had kids going in there to visit like school kids and groups,' she said.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2385796/Noah-Connor-Barthe-Pictures-boys-strangled-python-playing-serpent-cage.html#ixzz2bNlhalwS
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Re: Snake deaths

Post by PeterMac on 08.08.13 19:05

http://news.yahoo.com/pythons-strangling-2-boys-canada-probed-144725929.html

Lots of comments raising serious eyebrows at the "official version", and saying what we are trying not to here.

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Re: Snake deaths

Post by Tony Bennett on 08.08.13 19:25

@marconi wrote:Maybe the children ate meat that evening and they were breathing its scent too...
Was the hole in the ceiling there BEFORE or AFTER the snake wound its way through the ventilation duct and 'fell' through the hole?

If it was AFTER, how did the hole get there?

Savoie was apparently surprised to see the hole when (for some reason) he checked on the boys.

By the way, I find your theory that the snake sniffed meat digested several hours earlier, and was so struck by this that he slithered through a ventilation duct and then went through a celing very...

...interesting.

I shall certainly look out for any more of your theories with added interest...!

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2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        

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Re: Snake deaths

Post by Praiaaa on 08.08.13 20:10

[quote="Tony Bennett"]
@marconi wrote:

By the way, I find your theory that the snake sniffed meat digested several hours earlier, and was so struck by this that he slithered through a ventilation duct and then went through a celing very...

...interesting.

I shall certainly look out for any more of your theories with added interest...!
big grin 

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snake

Post by marconi on 08.08.13 20:19

undefined wrote:Tony Bennett
Mr. Bennett, I didn't say what you wrote here.  And smell of food can remain long in the mouth, even after we brush our teeth.
But I didn't not say it was the reason that the snake left the attick.
I also believe in the scent of animals on the siblings' skin. And that it was an accident.

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Re: Snake deaths

Post by PeterMac on 08.08.13 20:19

Snakes don't "fall". They "drip" and "slither"
A snake cannot "fall through a hole", unless the entire ceiling collapses.
It pokes its head through and then in a very controlled way makes the rest of its body follow.
And the "smell of meat".
If it were hungry- which in a domestic situation is most unlikely as people overfeed pets - but just for the sake of argument -
If it were hungry, it was certainly large enough to constrict and then swallow, or attempt to swallow, the first boy.
Watch the comments on the canadian site
Carter-Ruck have clearly not yet opened an office over there.

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Re: Snake deaths

Post by Guest on 08.08.13 20:26

I have some experience with [strangling] snakes. I know for sure that [1] they are absolutely not cold & slimy, but rather warm and smooth & [2] they will not strangle unless they're hungry [hence the photos from my youth with pythons and boa constrictors around my neck: they had been fed before and only wanted to communicate with me ...] or [3] they're in shock = in danger.
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