Brian Johnson: Faked Abduction: Transcript of radio interview

Paul: Good afternoon, this is Paul Drockton, you’re listening to the Paul Drockton radio show and we’ve got a special guest today, Steve Marsden who is also a published author. And we’re going to talk about the er, the potentially faked abduction of Maddie McCann and basically, just to get this started ...Brian, er Steve is basically a British citizen and moved to the United States a few years ago and he’s done quite a bit of work with er, er, computers and programming. He’s also a licensed pilot, and drives or fly’s British aircraft. In addition to that he studies history, photography, soccer, rugby, travel, and he considers himself quite the expert on [?cadaver?] and done quite a bit of research on what we refer to as the Davinci Code. In fact he’s been to Rosslyn chapel quite a few times.

So, let me ask yer, erm, er Brian, what do you think er is the most critical thing we need to know about Maddie?

Steve (Brian): That’s a good question, really er Paul and thanks for having me on the show today. Ermm...the story, story’s just exploded from, you know, three years ago May 3rd when she disappeared. Ermm..it’s just been, a government conspiracy, a British government conspiracy to er, cover up the true circumstances of the disappearance from day one. I think that’s the most insidious aspect to the nature of the British government intervening in the case. They didn’t let the Portuguese police get on with their job, and er, this was exploited with the British media to a sort of a propaganda campaign against the investigators like from day one. And erm...

Paul: So when you say investigators, who, who, who would you name as, or who would you consider to be the investigators of this story?

Steve (Brian): Well he main investigators were the Portuguese CIE which er, the PJ which er judiciario they’re like the equivalent of er, probably like the FBI in the USA. they’re, they’re, you know, higher than the sort of average police guy on the street and erm, the leader of that investigation was Goncalo Amaral and he was on the case from day one and through till October 2nd 2007.

Paul: Can you kind of give us a review of what the, er Portuguese FBI found in this case?

Steve (Brian): Erm, well they were investigating it, getting you know, they were, they were pretty much led in the investigation by this group known as the Tapas9 which were the nine people, Madeleine’s parents with seven other couples – seven other people er...sorry, er three couples and another lady. And they were kinda leading the investigation down the road of abduction but with very little evidence. And...the

Paul: How, how are these ...I’m going to interrupt you as we go along because some people are not as familiar with this as...you know, you are obviously and we wanna make sure that we cover some of the questions that they probably have, so we’re talking about seven individuals ...are these individuals like co-conspirators ...would you...are they, are we talking about a paedophile ring? What, what exactly are we referring to?

Steve (Brian): Erm, each of the couples, as I say, there’s four couples and another lady so that there’s nine people, nine adults and eight children in the group. They were just friends erm, in each of the couples were at least, like Kate and Gerry the parents of Madeleine they were both doctors, er, in the other couples there was at least one doctor so they all knew each other from medical school, erm, they went out on the vacation to Portugal for one week, the vacation was organised by one of the doctors within in the group, David Payne...and erm, you know, they pretty much went on what a lot of people would consider an adult holiday er vacation. They went erm, they left the children each day in a daytime, sort of day care crèche facility and then in the evening they would go out socialising and leave the children back in the apartment so, you know, first question is....

Paul: Were there other children that were with Madeleine? Is that what we’re talking about here?

Steve (Brian): Well, each of the couples had their respective children you know, so according to their own alibis they had left the children each night in the apartments while they went out socialising.

Paul: Gochyer. What was the oldest child? Do you know? I mean...

Steve (Brian): Well, they were all toddlers pretty much, babies in arms or kind of, you know, in strollers or you know, three, four year old. That sort of age range.

Paul: So are we talking about.... they basically locked these kids up at night while they went out and partied?

Steve (Brian): Well that’s a good question because on the original er witness statements on the day after she disappeared on May 3rd ...on May 4th witness statements from Gerry and Kate they spoke of erm entering the apartment from a locked door. So clearly in that case you’re right it was locked, but their alibi soon changed to er, entering the apartment through the patio doors which they claimed to have left open.

Paul: So....I guess what I’m trying get at here is you know, very minimum this is a case of neglect, I mean if you’re talking about toddlers and I’m assuming they’re still in diapers [diapers = nappies] or at least some of them were...

Steve (Brian): That, that...absolutely in diapers ...they even mentioned that so yes absolutely.

Paul: So minimal charges that could have been filed here were child neglect charges, the fact that they left them er, reportedly left them unsupervised and er, okay, I apologise so ....In, in your book you talk about er, there’s certain questions that er... 48 questions that Kate did not answer. So Kate’s the mother of Madeleine correct?

Steve (Brian): yep, yep that’s right. Kate Healy.

Paul: Okay, so tell us a little about what their story was and then tell us, you know, where you see the holes.

Steve (Brian): Well the very first, we have to look at the very first story in the police file, the witness statements from the day after er, she went missing when they were taken into the police station to give their first account. So the very first account erm, were that ....

Paul: would it be okay if we took calls through this show as well? Oh I’m sorry Brian,
Steve (Brian): Oh yeah. Absolutely.

Paul: I’m gonna take one, take on right now

Steve: Okay.

Paul: Give me one second ...okay so, ...we lost the caller so...okay, I’m sorry, go ahead...

Steve (Brian): Okay, so, so , yeah...I’ve got a chapter in my book how the story unfolded and basically, it.... this, this was unanimous that the window and the shutter into the bedroom, the children’s bedroom had been jimmied open or broken, erm, every single person that spoke to the media in the hours after the, er disappearance said that the window had been broken and she’d been snatched through this window, but the interesting thing is that when we see the police forensics erm, dusting the shutter and window for prints on the morning of May 4th, those prints were subsequently found to show that there was only Kate’s and, I think, the police officer who probably examined the window on the night, they were the only prints found on the window. But 94 days after the disappearance and this is crucial, Kate was still telling the world that the window had been smashed open.

Paul: the window, the window was intact and someone had actually appeared to jimmy the door, correct?

Steve (Brian): NO! No, there were no signs of damage whatsoever

Paul: Hmm, just the fingerprints on that door perhaps, so the bottom line is what we’re talking about here is perjury pretty much. Did she say this in court or was there...something else like that?

Steve (Brian): No, they never had any inquest and they never erm, they were never formally charged. Nobody’s ever been formally charged with any offenses in connection, apart from there’s a few people who tried to collect money on behalf of the official Madeleine Fund. Obviously that’s sort of...

Paul: Well, that’s a big issue I think to...we’re gonna get back to it, first we’ll take a little commercial break and I’d like invite yer to visit Crystals Trading er, if you’re considering buying gold or silver or if you’re considering buying more gold and silver you can go to my website er deadmansmusings or Paul drock MA and as you know one of the most popular websites in the entire world er, simply because of our investigative journalism and because of the guests, the high quality guests that we have right here on our program. So if you can visit my website, you’ll see that there’s an ad there for Crystals Trading, the phone number is 888 385 1116 and yer wanna talk to Mike. And they are just amazing erm and able to find what you want as far as gold bullion and silver bullion erm, at the lowest possible cost er yer gold bullion and silver coins whatever it is that yer need to convert your cash into hard currency so that you literally don’t lose it during these times of economic er hardship and we’re literally on that kind of verge of collapse here in the United States. Gold and silver are really the only safest thing you’ve got left er for your retirement and for your savings. So give er Crystals Trading a call the numbers 888 385 1116.....

...okay, so Brian let’s back outta here and so what you’re saying is this, that er there is no signs of forced entry correct?

Brian: Correct

Paul: And the question I’ve got is that, how much money has this lady rasied er for this fund?

Brian: Oh, the family erm wasted no time in setting up like an official er fund to collect the money, er within days of the disappearance and it was a well oiled machine, they used a very high powered firm of London lawyers to er, set the fund er going and erm, that was kind of a mystery in itself because the family live nowhere near London so they were well connected with a lot of high powered influential people in setting up this fund which raised probably in the region of 4 to 5 million dollars

Paul: amazing. I mean let’s just examine this, I mean this to me is, you know, again thinking about this case is that here you have a er, purportedly grieved parent...right...and, how, how, what was the time between the disappearance the er setup of this er fund? This request for donations?

Brian: Erm, well they had a website domain registered on May 11th and she disappeared on May 8th ...er sorry, May 3rd so that was what, 8 days. And then on May 15th er, four days after that was the official Limited Company that’s formed.

Paul: To raise, to raise donations. Now what types of activities have we seen that they’ve done to you know, find Madeleine, supposedly even look for her, er where’s this money gone, have they spent it on searching for Madeleine?

Brian: No, the thing is they’ve employed some private detectives in the first years of accounts there was 250,000 which is approximately half a million dollars back then with a group called Metodo3 and staying in Barcelona, Spain, this is an outfit that had no track record in looking for people so first of all the recruitment of this company is called into question anyway

Paul: Yeah, so bottom line is what you’re saying is they brought in a bunch of amateurs er that they knew were not the best people for the job.

Brian: Right, right

Paul...so looks like as if er and you said that was 250,000 ...have you seen the other expenditures that were made by this fund?

Brian: Yeah, the company have also spent money on a guy called Kevin Halogen who’s actually awaiting deportation from the UK to the US erm, he’s implicated in some er there was a warrant out for his arrest in, I think in the State of Virginia last year erm, because of some embezzlement kind of, type of er activity in the DC area.

Paul: So we’re talking about er...was he...let me ask you this...was he a produciaree(?) in this fund, did he handle money er...what role did he play, do you know?

Brian: Who, who are you talking about now? Halogen?

Paul: Yeah.

Brian: No, I mean there’s no sign that he was connected with the fund erm, I don’t think there’s any signs on the surface if you like of anybody that they’ve spent money with as being ....er..use the word, say money laundering or whatever but I mean, it’s just that the choice of the company that, the people, the investigators that they used, they just don’t seem to have any track so if they’re using donated funds, you know, why isn’t anybody questioning erm, like, surely you’d go to a company that’s had successes in finding people.
Paul: Yeah, which they haven’t...and has there been any, let me ask you this, has there been any efforts in Portugal to find er Maddie?

Brian: No, er when the police erm, the police wound up the case after, almost after a year of the cold case er, because they didn’t have enough evidence to bring about a prosecution so it’s been shelved as a cold case but erm, i don’t think Portugal have ever really followed the line of a missing person in terms of looking for her because they believed that she, she died erm in the apartment, that was their conclusion, that’s why I wrote my book. My book is actually really just about the conclusion and why the Portuguese police concluded that she had died in the apartment

Paul: Let’s focus on that ...so tell me; tell me why er the Portuguese police determined that Madeleine had died in the apartment

Brian: Erm, well first of all they couldn’t find any evidence of any ...there’s no physical evidence of abduction apart from the Tapas9 saying she was abducted. Erm, there’s no, there’s no, there was no evidence of any person going through that window, there was no scuffmarks there was no...the Lycon [lichen?] on, on the window as not marked in any way ermm...

Paul: The moss correct?

Brian: The moss, yes.

Paul: Okay

Brian; So here was no sign of anybody taking her through that window, erm, and you know, there was so many contradictions in the ever changing alibis. So, they brought in erm, a police expert dog handler called Martin Grime who erm, had a cadaver dog and a human blood sniffing dog and er, they brought this guy in and he works for the FBI, he works around the world, his dogs have got international passports so they’re used in a lot of international cases with a lot of success and never had any failures and they went into the apartment, I spoke to Martin Grime personally in December a couple of times and er, he outlined the search procedure to me and you know, when he was introduced into the case erm, he called it a clearing run to go into the apartment, he had no idea or any preconceived notion that the dogs would alert in that apartment, but they alerted in the McCanns apartment

Paul: they alerted for blood correct.

Brian: Well first of all he puts the cadaver dog in there and of course if the cadaver dog senses there’s a dead body then he brings in the blood sniffing dog. So, two dogs were deployed separately but the two dogs alerted in the same places.

Paul: Yeah, that’s amazing, I mean that ...so the bottom line is the cadaver dog identified that there was a dead body in that house or in that apartment.

Brian: Correct...and that...

Paul: So...and they also found blood...I’m sorry, go ahead.

Brian: yeah, I was going to make the point ...I even asked Martin Grime, I said well what’s the chances of somebody planting some evidence in there because you know, there is a product pseudo scent which is often used to train these cadaver dogs but Martin assured me that his dogs do not alert to the manmade product so he said, the only way he could see erm, you know, evidence of the dead body in an apartment is if somebody had gone to the morgue you know, and introduced a real dead body oe you know, items relating to a dead body in there.

Paul: could cadaver been from someone died previously, I mean, how long does the scent stay in the apartment? I mean how long....

Brian: Well, the police checked the apartment and there was no record of anybody having died before or after the McCanns stayed in the apartment.

Paul: Hm. So bottom line is er this gentleman is saying this dog will not alert on any artificial substance er, that there would have actually have been a dead body in that apartment for the dog to alert and then the second dog was brought in and found blood ...okay...so the question I’ve got for yer is ... what’s the response from er Kate and er and these dogs, what did she say?

Brian: Ermm...well, the response was that she said she’d come into contact with six dead bodies in her work as a GP as a General Practitioner in the weeks preceding the vacation

Paul: what did the dog hander say to that explanation?

Brian: Er he didn’t. He said you know, I mean he’s a very professional he didn’t make any opinion ot me erm, because as he says his dogs are just a tool in the process, it’s up to the forensics after the dogs have gone in to...you know they’re, they’re ...the dogs are finding a needle in a haystack after that it’s down to the forensic guys to examine the needle. So you know....

Paul: have they been able to document that she did in fact was around six dead bodies before she went into the apartment?

Brian: Well that’s one of these factual things that, you know, we know she said that but there’s been no proof or collaboration of that.

Paul: um hum...So bottom line is er, obviously what we have here is we have every reason to suspect there’s enough evidence there to launch a criminal investigation and obviously it sounds like Portugal ..This is outside of their jurisdiction right now or ... you tell me. Would they have to actually bring her back into the country for trial or...

Brian: Well, in Portugal, the way there judicial system works they were actually named as official defendants or arguidos in September, early September of 2007, this was soon after the dogs had gone in, just over a month after that and the legal status as an arguido meant they had to report to a police station every five days, er within every week I think it was, you know, there were certain conditions and erm, that legal status only...er...either had to bring about charges or they had to erm, free them from that legal status. So in the summer of 2008 they were actually released from that status when the case was shelved as a cold case. Now the McCanns told the world that they were officially cleared, well that’s not true they were not officially cleared because they were never officially charged, they were just ... er...they had their arguido status er rescinded.

Paul: So one of the things we have here of course is that er, not just manipulation but this is the thing, it sounds as if these people’s stories have changed now, it’s er, it’s basically changed to suit whatever information comes out.

Brian: Oh...it certainly has. I mean that’s one of the noticeable aspects of the case that, for instance er, when the police made their er appropriate international rogatory requests with the British government to er, interview some of the suspects in England in 2008 obviously this was a vacation, most of the people had gone back home so, you know, they had to follow it up with interviews in the UK which they did substantially in April 2008 ermm...

Paul: You say ‘they’...who’s the investigators here.

Brian: Well, the Portuguese investigators then liaised with the British, er the British police in the er the county where the McCanns live, this is Leicestershire constabulary and so most of these er rogatory interviews were conducted in Leicester in England and erm, they also made requests for, you know, documentations for instance the McCanns financial records, the erm, medical records of Madeleine but the British government intervened and would not allow Madeleine’s medical records to be disclosed

Paul: Mmmm....that’s crazy. So we’re talking about conspiracy goes right to the top. We’re going to take another quick commercial break here and then we’ll come back er to the story. So obviously what you’re hearing here is disturbing, disgusting and er this is what we do, this is what the purpose of my radio show is, Paul Drockton radio and also the purpose of my site is to expose these criminals and you know I haven’t asked Brian’s opinion on this but I’m assuming these people, if they are guilty of this are also involved in the occult, Satanism, there’s gotta be some connection, there usually is when we talk about paedophiles. If you would like to make a contribution to this effort er you can go to my website and for as little as $5 a month you can become a sponsor. Or if you have a small business you want to advertise as well we have programmes. And as a site you need over 44,000 unique visits per month and obviously here on our radio show we have thousands of visitors that listen in. So, if you want to be part of this, go to my website deadmansmusings or Paul Drockton and er, click on the ‘urgent’ and become a sponsor for site radio button.

Okay, so here’s a question I’ve got, obviously all this is leading to the conclusion, at least I’m having...there’s a conspiracy going on here and erm, can you tell us more about that?

Brian: Well, the amazing thing is as I say, the amount of British government intervention and when I say that I’m talking about the highest level of cabinet ministers,, er, Tony Blair was the Prime Minister at the time er, Gordon Brown was the Chancellor, both of these people made personal phone calls to the McCanns and notably in Kate’s diary she refers to those people has Tony and Gordon as if she’s got some prior connection with these people, erm, you know, there’s a certain familiarity with these people that erm, transcends a normal persons er, if you like, relationship with the government and that’s never been disclosed and I think as public servants, publically elected servants Gordon Brown and Tony Blair should be made to answer for what they’re real role was in the McCann case.

Paul: um hum...so the bottom line is er, I guess it is a question that the reason, that I’m thinking to myself here is, these other kids that were there erm, were they interviewed, were they talked to at all?

Brian: That’s an interesting point as well you see, er, in Gerry McCann’s interview when he was made an official defendant he claimed that the twins weren’t capable of speech but we have a lot of anecdotal evidence where relatives in the family say oh the twins have asked when is Madeleine coming back so we know they did have a good grasping of speech erm, but they never bothered to speak to the children, the twins, er Madeleine had two er twin brother and sister they were younger, they were two years old, er, but notably as well erm Paul on the night in question the twins were fast asleep and with all the commotion in the apartment they never woke and that was a point noted by several police officers.