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A Estrala de Madeleine - thoughts and observations - Page 2 Mm11

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A Estrala de Madeleine - thoughts and observations

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Post by bristow 01.12.12 17:36

My bet is on the tide in PDL that evening. The key numbers matched totally to the time and date of the tide on the evening Madeleine went missing.

Trying desperately to find the fairly recent thread where a member (cant remember who) suddenly worked it out!

If anyone can find the relevant thread/post could they please post it on this thread? I think it has massive significance.
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Post by aniandr 01.12.12 19:09

Wasnt it trigger?
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Post by tigger 01.12.12 20:12

aniandr wrote:Wasnt it trigger?

PeterMac supplied the tides times. Imo it's really a dead duck. The beach was checked with the dogs the following day - they would certainly have picked something up.

Imo - by the time they called the police the body was nowhere near PdL. Although I also believe they didn't in fact know exactly where.

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Post by Guest 01.12.12 20:21

tigger wrote:
aniandr wrote:Wasnt it trigger?

PeterMac supplied the tides times. Imo it's really a dead duck. The beach was checked with the dogs the following day - they would certainly have picked something up.

Imo - by the time they called the police the body was nowhere near PdL. Although I also believe they didn't in fact know exactly where.
***
They were trailer dogs, Tigger. I'm not sure they'd reacted to a buried body. By that time it would have been more scent of cadaver and less or none of an alive girl. IMO, of course.
:-( I really feel bad having to phrase it like this ... :-(

Interesting you say, though, that IYO the body was far away by that time [evening May 3] and they didn't know where it was. That implicates action by others. Who? What are you thinking?
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Post by Rob Royston 25.12.12 18:27

aniandr wrote:I still thing it refers to the alter in the Church. A box in the alter

When you go on Google Earth and zoom in over the church, there is a picture tab right in the middle of the church roof that opens up to show the alter. This appears to have 5 panels then below that 3 chairs, then a two legged table and below this a plinth that could be covering a "box" as you say.

I think there may be some other solutions. We had the Smith sighting (nine people) of the man carrying the sleeping, blond haired 4 year old girl, this man never came forward. This happened just after they had crossed over and walked away from the street 25th of April. Now, Mr Smith later thought that the man was Gerry McCann. There is another man who lived on this street who is not too unlike Gerry and who has been interviewed by the PJ. In a lot of languages they would say 25 as 5 and 20, so I wonder if the 5 and the 2 refer to this street. What the 1 and 3 refer to I don't know, an address or an adjoining road?
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Post by Truthandjustice 24.09.13 13:19

What a fabulous book and beautifully written.  

The Luz key; the numbers refer I think to the Rogatory letters 'the poisoned gift' he refers to in ch 23.  He very clearly states that the order of the letters is important, 'never taking his eyes off the papers and putting them into a sequence'.  When you read the rogatory letter the numbers assigned to witnesses are 5 J Tanner, 2 F Payne, 3 D Webster, 1 D Payne.
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Post by Nevermind 22.10.13 15:37

Try to kip it simple....

Chapter 4 - A madman in Lisbon

....
"But the lead has to be verified. The journalists take an envelope out of their bag, and they produce a document that they say had been received together with the map. It's a spermogram, a document that is issued when someone has his sperm analysed in a lab.

João Tavares notices that there is no identification of the subject on the document, but he also notices a sequence of numbers on the lower right hand corner. He contacts a doctor who informs him that the sequence identifies the lab, the number of the test and the individual that was subject to the analysis"
....

Do you want it more clear to understand meaning of 5 2 3 1 ?
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Post by Truthandjustice 26.10.13 18:17

Ok. I have been checking lab reports for hours in the files............
flag 
muito enigmático para mim

Please tell more.
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Post by Ayniia 27.10.13 20:00

Châtelaine wrote:I just found translations on TMCF. It seems that only the introduction is a complete translation. The other chapters are resumes. If someone could guide me to a complete translation, I would be grateful.

However, first things which struck me in this translated introduction [can anyone vote for its accuracy?] were these:

Everyone knows who Gerry and Kate McCann, Russell and Jane Tanner are; Matthew, Rachel and Diane Webster, Clarence Mitchell and Gordon Brown.
No mention of the Paynes .... ?!!!
BTW also no last name mentioned for Russell, Matt & Rachel.

Everyone knows where the Ocean Club is located, its layout, the location of the Tapas Bar, the church, the beach of Luz, the village with the same name, the Priest and the twins.
Priest and twins are mentioned in a phrase about locations ...? Bizarre.
Priest single not Priests plural. Which one does he mean?
Is this a reference to the church?


In spite of this, there are not many who know what prompted the disappearance of this little girl, who was responsible for it, how and why.
Not many who know, but there are ....

No Paynes, like in CW, naming everyone but them...very very interesting!

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Post by sallypelt 27.10.13 20:05

Ayniia wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:I just found translations on TMCF. It seems that only the introduction is a complete translation. The other chapters are resumes. If someone could guide me to a complete translation, I would be grateful.

However, first things which struck me in this translated introduction [can anyone vote for its accuracy?] were these:

Everyone knows who Gerry and Kate McCann, Russell and Jane Tanner are; Matthew, Rachel and Diane Webster, Clarence Mitchell and Gordon Brown.
No mention of the Paynes .... ?!!!
BTW also no last name mentioned for Russell, Matt & Rachel.

Everyone knows where the Ocean Club is located, its layout, the location of the Tapas Bar, the church, the beach of Luz, the village with the same name, the Priest and the twins.
Priest and twins are mentioned in a phrase about locations ...? Bizarre.
Priest single not Priests plural. Which one does he mean?
Is this a reference to the church?


In spite of this, there are not many who know what prompted the disappearance of this little girl, who was responsible for it, how and why.
Not many who know, but there are ....

No Paynes, like in CW, naming everyone but them...very very interesting!
I agree. It's as if CW programme was saying (without saying) that we now know what the Paynes did that night, so no point in adding them into the CW mix
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Post by AB1 29.10.13 0:00

sallypelt wrote:
Ayniia wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:I just found translations on TMCF. It seems that only the introduction is a complete translation. The other chapters are resumes. If someone could guide me to a complete translation, I would be grateful.

However, first things which struck me in this translated introduction [can anyone vote for its accuracy?] were these:

Everyone knows who Gerry and Kate McCann, Russell and Jane Tanner are; Matthew, Rachel and Diane Webster, Clarence Mitchell and Gordon Brown.
No mention of the Paynes .... ?!!!
BTW also no last name mentioned for Russell, Matt & Rachel.

Everyone knows where the Ocean Club is located, its layout, the location of the Tapas Bar, the church, the beach of Luz, the village with the same name, the Priest and the twins.
Priest and twins are mentioned in a phrase about locations ...? Bizarre.
Priest single not Priests plural. Which one does he mean?
Is this a reference to the church?


In spite of this, there are not many who know what prompted the disappearance of this little girl, who was responsible for it, how and why.
Not many who know, but there are ....

No Paynes, like in CW, naming everyone but them...very very interesting!
I agree. It's as if CW programme was saying (without saying) that we now know what the Paynes did that night, so no point in adding them into the CW mix
Or missing from the book because the Ps are the reason there was so much political interference, hence the absence from CW because it's preferred that we forget they were there...
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Post by sallypelt 29.10.13 0:03

I've been reading some of the reviews on Amazon, regarding Kate McCann's book, and they make for interesting reading. I will post one review, and I will also post the link for anyone who wants to read the other reviews.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B004ZGLD74/ref=cm_cr_pr_btm_link_2?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&pageNumber=2&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending


a poor testament to a vanished child, 31 Dec 2011
By zhivago - See all my reviewsThis review is from: Madeleine (Hardcover)
Firstly let me suggest that for a balanced view of this case and to form an opinion about what happened to this little girl who was taken abroad and did not return home as was her right, read this book in conjunction with the police files, read witness statements and look at evidence then weigh it all.
I decided to borrow this book from my local library because I was interested after reading so much elsewhere, to read what Madeleine's mother had to say. I will not give to the fund, it is documented that in the first year less than 20% was spent on searching for the child. The money now is spent on damage limitation and suing anyone who questions the McCann version of events. If the couple and their friends had not acted in the ways they did during the investigation, people would not be still asking questions.

It would be unreasonable to expect all of the book to be about the child, as after May 3 2007 the book inevitably must deal with events post-disappearance. I do not refer to an abduction, as the book is subtitled disappearance. In fact this is what the vanishing of this poor child must be called. There is as has been clearly documented, no evidence that a child was abducted 3 May 2007.

What struck me was that this book bears the little girl's name as its title, yet even in the chapter which bears her name as the heading, most of that chapter deals with a pregnancy and birth. I felt after reading this and the entire book that Madeleine appeared abstract,apart from aspects of her physical appearance, I got no sense at all of her being, her essence as a child, her character.
Talking of physical appearance, where was the much publicised coloboma, the eye defect that was mentioned by the McCanns against police advice, not only that, it was there on all the posters and photographs for people to recognise her? This is her most distinctive physical feature, yet there is not one mention of it in the book.
And where were the photos from that holiday?
Why did DNA have to be retrieved from the UK?
The book raised more questions than it answered.
Why was this nonsense about " it was like eating in your back garden" still being churned out. I have lived in many homes, and back gardens were within the perimiter walls of my property. Children would only need to come downstairs and through a rear entrance to a dining area there, not along a road.
Why does Kate McCann complain that not enough was being done in Portugal, when by exercising her right to remain silent meant that she hindered the investigation, by ensuring she was not rapidly eliminated and so allowing police to focus attention elsewhere. Police forces always examine the family and immediate circle when a story like this emerges, it is their duty given the statistics.
Why under the dire circumstances did she complain about not being offered food or drink at the police station? Why when her daughter is missing, does he say SHE felt as if SHE did not exist for the police. No in-flight food on a short flight from Faro airport? Did you really care about trivia such as this ? It beggars belief. This is a sense of entitlement and narcissism to a massive degree.

I do not understand the David Payne scenario evening May 3. Neither of the 2 parties involved, David Payne, Kate McCann, mentioned this episode in their initial statements to police. It was mentioned by Gerry McCann days later, and he was not even present. Both Payne and Kate McCann remember this very differently: massive differences about the length of time he was either at or in the McCann apartment,one says inside for a good length of time, the other there for less than a minute and did not enter.....all neatly sidestepped in the book by stating he just popped his head in.

Why does the child in the tennis court photo taken on that holiday look so much older than the child on the last photo at the swimming pool? Why was this pool photo not immediately produced for the police,instead of 3 weeks later? A much earlier one was used, where the child in the red velvet dress, coloboma prominent, looks very different to the girl holding tennis balls.
Kate tells us the pattern for her children became very much one of routine, day care centre in the day, lunch and tea and bath and bed routine for them all.
There are about 16 pages dealing with days from arrival to May 2nd, but nothing about 30th April, when routine changed for Madeleine. Daycare centre records show that while her twin brother and sister remained until tea time as usual,. Madeleine was signed in then out again after only 15 minutes.
There was a decision made to do something different. Why not tell us about where she went? She was under adult supervision, did she go to the beach,the shops, for a short trip somewhere? Strange that a break with routine is not mentioned in detail in the book, when there is so much detail about boring stuff, milk, biscuits, bed..... just a couple of lines about a trip to the supermarket with one of the female members of the holiday group and a reference to the evening meal. Why not tell us about the precious time spent just with Maddie this afternoon, a couple of lovely hours focussed just on her, rather than attention having to be given to the twins as well?
Why was a woman convinced her daughter had been abducted so dismissive of the sniffer dogs behaviour when police showed her a video of them in action? Rather than fear and distress that her daughter might have been harmed prior to being taken, was her initial reaction one of contempt, and her husband's desire to immediately find things to discredit them? The dogs do not have an agenda, they do what they are trained to do, simple.

Why does she 4 years later talk about forced shutters? Documented not to have been forced from the outside to gain entrance.
Why does she think that the man allegedly seen by her friend, is the same man seen 45 minutes later by other people? Would a child abductor be walking around so long in a public place with his victim?
Why does she say " we resumed our search" about the ealry hours of 4 May. She has admitted in a tv interview with the BBC that she did not physically search for her daughter, being non functioning in the aftermath of Madeleine's disappearance.
Why did she say in her book that she was Kate Healy until May 3 2007? She makes a big deal of this at the end of her book, when the daycare sheets show her signing Kate McCann[ understandable to keep a maiden name for her work, understandable in a family scenario to use McCann.]
Why such the fuss, still, about the press calling Madeleine Maddie? She uses a diminituve for Sean Seanie... in her book, and Amelie already has the sound at the end. I have read Gerry McCann on his early blogs referring to his daughter as Maddie as does one of the twins on a video.

So many unanswered questions. I can only recommend that they ask for the case to be reopened, not for a review[a stamp on a short letter is all that I believe it will take.]
Oh yes....a reconstruction would have helped. But they all refused that.

Kate did not mention the near 24 hour rota of the police with some choosing to sleep on the floor rather than come and go, did she?
And a plea bargain,a deal, does not as far as I know,exist in the Portuguese legal system. No deal was offered.
And I think the truthfulness of this book can be proven to be a nonsense about 200 pages in. Kate McCann states that no one in the party could speak about events due to judicial secrecy laws in Portugal. It is in the public domain that a former spokesperson of theirs stated that they managed to get messages about what was going on at the police station out to McCann family and friends.
Finally, I hope the twins never read p.129 of this book .
Reading it made me profoundly depressed and angry.
I hope and pray that one day the truth will out about what happened to Madeleine McCann. And that she gets justice.
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Post by russiandoll 29.10.13 8:32

Hello, that review was written by me, sorry it was like reading War and Peace  !  Surprised you chose to post such a long item here [ Tigger wrote a neater one iirc !]

 zhivago: Russian reference is the clue it's me.  smilie

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Post by PeterMac 29.10.13 9:35

well done. Glad it has not been whooshed !
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Post by sallypelt 29.10.13 10:32

russiandoll wrote:Hello, that review was written by me, sorry it was like reading War and Peace  !  Surprised you chose to post such a long item here [ Tigger wrote a neater one iirc !]

 zhivago: Russian reference is the clue it's me.  smilie
Hi Russiandoll. When I read some of the reviews of Kate's book, last night, I had no idea who wrote the reviews. When I copied and pasted your review to this forum, it was late, and my brain was fried from so much reading. I thought to myself, what an excellent review, and for all those who are new or relatively new to this forum can read for themselves what the book is all about.

As for cryptic clues, I have never been any good. Even with cryptic crosswords, when given the answers, 70% of the time I still can't grasp how they came to the answer from the clue.

But take it as a big compliment, as that is what it is:roses: 
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Post by Irisheyes 21.12.13 9:40

Is this book available to buy? My dad is interested in this case through what I tell him but he is a complete technophobe so ebooks aren't much use.
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Post by marconi 21.12.13 12:00

The Portuguese Justice does not accept cadaver dogs as an evidence.
But perhaps a Judge can make an exception  in Madeleine's case. Many other countries accept dogs' reactions as a proof.
After having insulting Portugal the way they did, I really hope that a Judge will change those rules.
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Post by Guest 20.01.14 23:55

"From Chapter 23 - The worse is always for those who leave :

Francisco was talking about the final redaction of the rogatory letters that were to be sent to the British authorities, and which included the request for several diligences. The letters are a poisoned gift, and despite the fact that they target several people, there are two persons who are of special interest to the policemen. And those are not the McCanns.
"

Omitting all reference to the Paynes when deciding not to dwell on the "well known" key people in the introduction "The Challenge", would indicate the Paynes' role in the story must not be skimmed over. For this reason, I believe the passage above refers to the Paynes as the people of "special interest to the policemen".

For this reason I also believe them to be the '2' in the 'key' conundrum.

Too coincidental that they are subsequently also omitted from SY's CW recon., imo.

"A poisoned gift", like Snow White's apple. Who were they attempting to paralyse? Were the rogatory letters numbered?  Was the subject of each letter assigned a number?
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