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5-2-3-1 Luz Key ?? - Page 5 Mm11

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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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5-2-3-1 Luz Key ?? - Page 5 Mm11

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5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

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Post by russiandoll 08.06.14 10:47

If the priest is the phone pad, the order is 2,5 , 3,1 or in some branches of the RC faith, 2,5, 1,3. the right shoulder touched before the left.

 The sign of the cross starts with the forehead [number 2 on the pad] always.

 Yes it looks like a cross, but so would other number combinations than the 3 and 1.

  imo

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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy

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Post by PeterMac 08.06.14 10:49

canada12 wrote:Catholic sign of the cross is Forehead, center breast, left shoulder, right shoulder.
And when someone spotted a rabbi making this sign he explained that on leaving the synagogue he always checked
Spectacles, Testicles, Wallet and watch ! ! ! Mr 
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Post by russiandoll 08.06.14 11:12

The motion is the tracing of the shape of a cross in the air or on one's own body, echoing the traditional shape of the cross of the Christian Crucifixion narrative. There are two principal forms: the one—three fingers, right to left—is exclusively used in the Eastern Orthodox churches and the Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church of the Byzantine and Chaldean Tradition; the other—left to right, other than three fingers—is the one used in the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church, Anglicanism, Methodism, Lutheranism and Oriental Orthodoxy (see below). The ritual is rare within other Christian traditions. 

   I reckon that the church of NSdeL had a big role to play in the story, even it was only that it was cool, quiet and was away from eyes and ears of others.
   There were prayers said for the repose of the soul of Madeleine Beth McCann also I imagine, plus a few deals being made with God because of the path they had chosen to go down. A sanctuary and a place which would assist the process of trying to think straight in a crisis.
 Attention seems to have shifted from the church car park now, as far as press reports are telling us.

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~John F. Kennedy

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Post by Masterblaster 08.06.14 11:43

I am looking at the calculator on my desk as if looking into a mirror, 5 = forehead, 2 = centre breast, 1 = left shoulder, 3 = right shoulder.

I'll let it drop now !!
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Post by Masterblaster 08.06.14 12:19

Ok, I could not give up on it, try this one for a co-incidence, Apartment 5231 !

http://www.praiadaluzapartment.com/bookings.php?yearID=5231
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Post by Garrincha 08.06.14 17:03

And the contact name is Hubbard!!!?????
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Post by HelenMeg 08.06.14 17:16

Hi
i asked the exact same question some time ago not too long after I had joined this site as a member. Someone, I forget who, gave me the answer - the correct answer as per the book.
I cant remember it exactly but I thin kthe answer was in the book - if only I could find my original post.. I thik I started a new thread with the name of the book..
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Post by Latetothecase 08.06.14 17:18

This is the apartment directly above ( ie Mrs Fenn's former apartment, yes?)

Let's hope they haven't got plans to rename it riad el fenn eh.
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Post by HelenMeg 08.06.14 17:20

Found the answer



It is a cryptic reference to How, Who, What and Why.
 
 
Beijos
    Chapter 11 wrote:How were they to solve this mystery, now?
 
 
 
    WHERE
    Ocean Club – Apartment 5ª
    Praia da Luz
 
    ↓
 
    WHEN
    May 3, 2007
    Between 6.30 and 10 p.m.
 
    ↓
 
    HOW
    Possibility: Entrance through door
    Possibility: Entrance through window
    Possibility: Transported to another location, alive
    Possibility: Transported to another location, dead
    Possibility: Unexpected action by another individual
 
    ↓
 
    WHO
    Possibility: Stranger
    Possibility: Relative
    Possibility: Close group
 
    ↓
 
    WHAT
    Possibility: Abduction by stranger
    Possibility: Abduction by known person
    Possibility: Death and concealment
 
    ↓
 
    WHY
    Possibility: To hide relevant action
    Possibility: Actions that derive from abduction
 
 
beijos
 
    Posts: 29
    Join date: 2013-10-30
 
    View user profile Send private message
 
Back to top Go down
 
    Reply with quote
 
Re: A Estrela de Madeleine - advice please
 
Post  HelenMeg on Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:44 pm
Beijos
many thanks for that.
 
 
H
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Post by bobbin 08.06.14 19:21

Latetothecase wrote:This is the apartment directly above ( ie Mrs Fenn's former apartment, yes?)

Let's hope they haven't got plans to rename it riad el fenn eh.
Do you have a reference for this information please. I haven't seen it before. Thanks.
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Post by HelenMeg 08.06.14 23:01

HelenMeg wrote:Found the answer - It is a cryptic reference to How, Who, What and Why.
 
 
Beijos provided this
    Chapter 11 wrote:How were they to solve this mystery, now?
 
 
     
    HOW
    Possibility: Entrance through door
    Possibility: Entrance through window
    Possibility: Transported to another location, alive
    Possibility: Transported to another location, dead
    Possibility: Unexpected action by another individual -5
 
    ↓
 
    WHO
    Possibility: Stranger
    Possibility: Relative - 2
    Possibility: Close group
 
    ↓
 
    WHAT
    Possibility: Abduction by stranger
    Possibility: Abduction by known person
    Possibility: Death and concealment - 3
 
    ↓
 
    WHY
    Possibility: To hide relevant action - 1
    Possibility: Actions that derive from abduction
 
 
beijos
 
    Posts: 29
    Join date: 2013-10-30
 
   
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Post by Okeydokey 08.06.14 23:26

I think you may have found the answer! Well done!!
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Post by Praia 09.06.14 5:52

I am not convinced that above is the answer.

Someone has been tampering with the ad for the Hubbard's apt, they have changed the calender of bookings to read 5231 instead of 2014.
The apt is not over 5A, it is in the OC's Club Phase nearer to the beach, not Waterside Garden.

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Post by Sonmi-451 09.06.14 6:33

Praia wrote:I am not convinced that above is the answer.

Someone has been tampering with the ad for the Hubbard's apt, they have changed the calender of bookings to read 5231 instead of 2014.
The apt is not over 5A, it is in the OC's Club Phase nearer to the beach, not Waterside Garden.

The "bookings app" used for the Hubbard's apartment simply has no set 'end date' parameters. When someone uses a 'booking app' for their business they are often asked to set a 'final date'...and, if they don't, the system will thus accommodate any date countless years into the future, (n.b. After the 31.12.1999/01.01/2000 fiasco, caused by developers failing to set 'infinite end-dates', almost all future apps started being designed with an 'end date' many, many, tens of thousands of years into the future. Hence I bet I could just as easily make a booking for a swimming lesson at my local municipal baths for the year '5231' if I so wished!!).  Indeed, you can select the arrows and book a 'Hubbard Apartment' for the year '5232'...or back a year to '5230'.

The Hubbard's site itself (I strongly suspect) hasn't been tinkered with, but someone has maybe been a bit too specific in their search criteria and thus the booking options for the year '5231' were returned. Either that or the person who found the "5231 Apartment booking" page knew full well that many such propriety online booking systems would give a return for the year '5231' and thought they'd sow some 'silly seeds' to try and get us all going!. Hopefully, therefore, the person providing the link was just over-zealous with searching for any Luz connections with '5231', and thus their search engine dutifully, passively, mechanically, responded with a bizarre return as computers are sometimes won't to do! :D

n.b. I've seen lots of silliness like this ''5231 booking option" in the last few days, across several forums. I do not know if its simply 'internet trolls', or possibly a certain 'PR Man with a current illness' who can spare the time to be bothered to sow such seeds of misinformation.  Maybe we'll find out one day? :D

[UPDATED twice: (i) to ensure that "Masterblaster's" apartment booking link, to which this and Praia's comment refer to is not confused with the  "Chapter 11 - Who, What, Why, When, How" contribution, & (ii) to 'tune down' my initial tone, just in case it was a genuine error by the person who posted the original link and something they'd posted 'in good faith'.
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Post by aniandr 09.06.14 9:43

im sure its just a reference to a master and change key. 


its a littel treasure hunt. we got the layout of the treasure map (1 page of book ). the landmarks of pdl is the black rocks and the fort. in treasure hunts (where the treasure is the money to the people finding madeleine) you often have to walk a long way around to end up almost where you started. so he gives us a treasure map. the coordinates ore riddels is to be found in between the lines i the book. im sure its in the conversations which seems as the most fiction in the book. anyone has the origional book? look at the pages in sunlight ore so. ore maybe its just the first letter in a sentence of a passage ore so.

treasure maps a small puzzels to solve a mystery.
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Post by Doug D 09.06.14 10:36

HelenMeg:
 
Of all of the uncertainties and riddles in this case, I think this is one that should be put to bed as per your previous post!
 
In the foreward to the book, Paulo Pereira Cristovão, Former PJ inspector, president of the Portuguese Missing Children Association [APCD] says:
 
‘Due to legal issues, it cannot be me, the author, to tell you what the truth, the truth of the case, is; but I can assure you that you can find it here, among the lines of this book………
 
Buying a book does not give us the power to "know" the truth, as if it was a chip that is implanted in us, right after we pass the checkout and pay for a heap of leaves and a binder. Buying a book means that we have the key to open the door into something that will make us think. After that, then, will come Knowledge.
 
Here and now. Please do think.
 
To the men and women at the Criminal Investigation Department in Portimão, at the Faro Directory and at the Central Directory for the Combat against Banditism of the Policia Judiciária. To those who carry on their shoulders the difficult mission of answering the questions of WHERE, WHEN, HOW, WHO, WHAT and WHY.’
 
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic11923.html
 
Chapter 28 – The millionaire bet
 
I don’t usually bet on Euromillions, my friend, but if I ever did, there would be at least four numbers where I would place my little crosses, to hit the winning key. And I bet that at least I would get those four right. As a matter of fact, I would even call it the Luz key.
 
Those would be the 5, the 2, the 3 and the 1!
 
Chapter 11 - The six fundamental questions: Where, when, how, who, what and why
 
WHERE 
Ocean Club – Apartment 5ª
Praia da Luz 
 
WHEN
May 3, 2007
Between 6.30 and 10 p.m.
 
HOW
Possibility: Entrance through door
Possibility: Entrance through window
Possibility: Transported to another location, alive
Possibility: Transported to another location, dead
Possibility: Unexpected action by another individual  5
 
WHO
Possibility: Stranger
Possibility: Relative  2
Possibility: Close group
 
WHAT
Possibility: Abduction by stranger
Possibility: Abduction by known person
Possibility: Death and concealment  3
 
WHY
Possibility: To hide relevant action  1
Possibility: Actions that derive from abduction
 
I have spelt it out in full again as it was getting obscured by the nonsense about the apartment.
The question is asked in the foreward and the solution given right at the end, thereby retaining some deniability in the event of being ‘McCanned’
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Post by HelenMeg 09.06.14 10:41

Well done Doug D - you have put it in the full context which helps make it clearer. clapping
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Post by j.rob 09.06.14 14:04

You could explore this further:

WHERE  
Ocean Club – Apartment 5ª
Praia da Luz  
 

WHEN
May 3, 2007
Between 6.30 and 10 p.m.



HOW
Possibility: Entrance through door
Possibility: Entrance through window
Possibility: Transported to another location, alive
Possibility: Transported to another location, dead
Possibility: Unexpected action by another individual  5


According to Kate's book, which tends to seep clues imo, four adults were in or very near the apartment between 6.30pm and 10pm on May 3rd.

6pm: Gerry leaves to play tennis.

6pm - 6.40pm: Kate McCann 

6.40pm: David Payne pops head around patio doors and speaks to Kate briefly. Then back to men's tennis.

6.40pm - 7pm: Kate McCann

7pm: Gerry returns from tennis.

7pm - 8.30pm: Kate and Gerry McCann

8.30pm: McCanns leave children in the apartment to go to dinner

9.05pm: Gerry 'checks' on children

9.30pm: Matt 'checks' on twins. Does 'check' on Madeleine and does not see Madeleine or her bed.

10pm: Kate 'checks' on children. Madeleine missing from bed. Alarm raised. 


WHO
Possibility: Stranger
Possibility: Relative  2
Possibility: Close group 


See above. The two parents are in the apartment the most that evening. Plus two male friends either go to the door or go inside. 
 
WHAT
Possibility: Abduction by stranger
Possibility: Abduction by known person 
Possibility: Death and concealment  3



Death that evening? Or eventual death that evening following illness/injury earlier in the week. And concealment that evening so police will not find Madeleine/Madeleine's body during the searches.
 
WHY
Possibility: To hide relevant action  1
Possibility: Actions that derive from abduction



Necessary to conceal the unexpected action that evening or prior to that evening And possibly also necessary to conceal other actions that were less unexpected that might have occurred earlier in the week. 
--------------

For what it is worth, it is my opinion that Kate and Gerry's relationship was very far from a bed of roses when they embarked on that 'holiday'. I would think that both of that the arrival of twins when Madeleine was only 20 months put a huge strain on the relationship. And having waited so long to have children (5 years did I read?)  the reality may have come as a huge shock. I think that, tragically, Madeleine became the 'scapegoat' for the problems within the marriage and the fantasy was that if she was not around, all would be perfect with the world. This might especially be the case if Gerry was not Madeleine's biological father. And the twins were.

All just theories as to what might lie behind this tragedy.
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Post by Sonmi-451 17.06.14 0:05

Any way of finding out if 5-2-31 is maybe a date relevant to Luz? Maybe even a birth date of someone cremated/buried in 2007 and whose remains were placed overnight in the church that K&G had free access to?
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Post by aniandr 17.06.14 6:54

thats a sharp thought!
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Post by fossey 17.06.14 8:03

Sonmi-451 wrote:Any way of finding out if 5-2-31 is maybe a date relevant to Luz? Maybe even a birth date of someone cremated/buried in 2007 and whose remains were placed overnight in the church that K&G had free access to?
See DougD's post above.

Explains it rather well.
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Post by Sonmi-451 17.06.14 23:48

fossey wrote:
Sonmi-451 wrote:Any way of finding out if 5-2-31 is maybe a date relevant to Luz? Maybe even a birth date of someone cremated/buried in 2007 and whose remains were placed overnight in the church that K&G had free access to?
See DougD's post above.

Explains it rather well.

Hi Fossey,

I read DougD's post when it was made, and several times since Wink  Whilst I agree it's insightful I must say I'm not 100% convinced. I haven't personally read Paulo's book, and so seeing the quotes out of context may be one reason why I'm not 100% convinced?.  

The trouble is there's more than one potential interpretation of '5-2-3-1' and, although DougD's theory is pretty darned good, it's not yet been confirmed as 'fact'.  I'm one of those awkward blighters who always fights to keep my mind open until 'ideas', (even really, really, great ones), are supported by at least one, and often more, independent corroboration(s). Only then am I happy to safely consider something as 'sufficiently correct' to file in my grey cells as an irrefutable 'fact'. Therefore I do look forward to the riddle being solved when the author reveals the answer at some point in the (hopefully none too distant!) future.  If DougD's theory proves to be correct then I'll be amongst the first to take my hat off to them for a great bit of analysis.
   howdy 

However, until that time I think it's healthy to keep the door ajar and occasionally ask new questions, particularly as and when the ongoing drama unfolds and it becomes appropriate to do so.  This week we have had GA (who knows more about this case than most) being associated with a claim of a funeral/cremation. Thus I do not think it was unreasonable to now pose the question as to whether or not '5321' might be a date associated with that dead person, (n.b. They would have been 66(ish); presumably a not atypical age at which to pass). I was hoping that a local, of which there appear to be some on this site, might have quickly been able to say "Nope... no connection, the funeral was for someone aged 21"; and then the question would be factually answered, and would then be on record as being asked and shelved, (for me and for others)... and of course DougD's theory remains a solid one to back, (as I happen to do, until a better idea comes along).  

N.B. Another '5231' connection that struck me when this thread was started over 2yrs ago, and that I don't think anyone else seems to have mentioned since, is that "37.5.2.31" is a line of latitude that cuts across the Luz bay. That line runs pretty much from a track visible on Google Earth that runs from a lay-by in Rua da Calheta, (a few yards East of the junction with the track leading to/from 'The Snail'), then skims the base of the Ponta da Calheat, then crosses the main Lus bay, and then pretty much aligns with the beach along Porto de Mos. However, I've never mentioned it before as there seemed to be no potential tie-in with anything tangible with the case.  The possible date of 5 2 31 also struck me as plausible when I first read this thread years ago, but there was no reason to mention it until this week with the potential, (albeit very slim), chance that it could be quickly either linked with/discounted from the recent re-emerging of the 'funeral' claim.  

So, I'm not saying DougD's conclusion is wrong, (personally I like it lots, and I think it's got lots of merit), but until it's proven to be the correct solution, beyond all doubt, I do think we should maintain an open mind and, as I said above, raise questions that are not unreasonable. 

I hope my logic(!) makes sense and the above hasn't come across as my being too curmudgeonly? ... it's been a long day in the workshop, (especially as I got soooo behind keep reading the forums!!!)  big grin
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Post by Doug D 18.06.14 7:27

It's nice to be given the credit, but it was HelenMeg that actually came up with it I believe, although there may well have been input from other forums/postings as well.

I merely tried to spell it out & put it into context.
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Post by Sonmi-451 18.06.14 12:42

Hi DougD, I should have scrolled through the thread before replying! Thanks for clarifying the above error and also thanks for your (and of course HelenMegs!) work on 'the key'. As I mentioned I do think HelenMeg's (with your helpful presentation) is the best riddle answer yet - but until the case is known to be definitely solved I hope we all keep '5231' in the back of our minds just in case something else comes out of the woodwork :D
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Post by Latetothecase 18.06.14 14:22

Somni, your line of thinking about the latitude across the bay feels very sound as well imo - particularly as the part of the book about the Luz key starts with a bit about looking wistfully out to sea for the definitive answer.

Let's not forget the same numbers were involved regarding the time of low tide in the bay on the evening of the alleged disappearance 21.53 (with thanks to earlier posting on another thread by PeterMac).

Plus all the inferences from the Portuguese news programme about 'dawn in Luz by the beach'.

Add the photos of GM and MW fiddling around on the beach as well, plus all the jogging trips up and down to the beach, it's clearly a place to be looked at, and perhaps the local fishermen know more.

However, if the cremated remains of a woman born with that birth date were sprinkled at low tide, that could fit just as neatly into the Luz Key.
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