Wednesday May 2nd Hour by Hour
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Wednesday May 2nd Hour by Hour
by HiDeHo 07.01.11 5:49
BASIC SUMMARY
- Wednesday morning
- This was the morning following Mrs Fenn hearing the crying
- The cot was seen in the McCanns bedroom by the cleaner.
- They both denied it
. - Kate made two very early phone calls to Amanda just after 7.00am
- It rained Wednesday morning so Dianne Webster went to Millenium for breakfast and thinks she saw Kate and Gerry there (Kates diary claims they went)
Matt and Kate went for a jog around lunchtime - Very little is known about Wednesday except by Jane Tanner who seems to fill the day with activities that were likely attributed to other days as it rained on Wednesday. She claims tennis, sailing and seeing Madeleine play tennis in the morning.
- She remembers ROB not being with her on this day because he was looking after Evie, which 'fits' as she says because Evie was sick the night before which is why ROB did not go to the tapas (Tuesday night)
- However, this does not fit with it raining on that day and therefore I wonder whether these were the activities on the day after ROB looking after Evie (Tuesday night) or whether ROB's absence from the tapas was another night.
- It is difficult to make these activities fit into other days if she is so sure that Rob was not with her.
- She claims to have met up with Rob and Ornya (who were 'normal' people) and went sailing with them in the morning. Did she meet up with them when it was raining? Was it another day when Evie was sick
- She claims to have watched Madeleine playing tennis but Madeleine's group played Tuesday.
- Did all of these activities happen on Tuesday and, if so, was ROB looking after Evie on Tuesday and not Wednesday?
- Was she trying to 'fill' Wednesday with activites?
- One would think in her early statements that she would remember the rain, but then to repeat the same again in the Rogatories?
- ROB keeps repeating that Rachael was not at the tapas and yet in the previous sentence had said he couldn't remember whether it was Tuesday or Wednesday he wasn't at tapas. Odd that he would be so sure about Rachael.
- Jane claims they checked Matt and Rachael's apartment that night but had mentioned that Rachael wasn't there that night (so she would be in apartment with no reason for anyone to check?)
- Gerry and Kate had claimed the crying on Wednesday night but Rachael heard nothing, (despite their apartment being next door and the ability to hear through the bathroom walls)
- Most were willing to admit to staying late at the tapas. I fouind that odd that with little other information about Wednesday nearly all claimed the late night.
- Gerry and Kate claim that Kate stayed in Madeleines room that night
- Goncalo Amaral claims Madeleine's bed showed no signs of being used.
(The above summary is from memory (please let me know of anything incorrect) and is in my opinion.)
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Colours for easier recognition when reading
Gerry
Kate
Jane
ROB
Matt
DP
Fiona
DW
7.00am
COT IN MCCANNS BEDROOM
Kate
Two early calls on mobile.
she said that the cleaning, which was provided by the resort, took place on Monday and Wednesday. Thus she mentions once more that she never altered the above described disposition, which means it is not true that at any one moment in time a cot was in the deponent’s bedroom and the other one in MADELEINE’S bedroom.
8.00am
Rachael
Furthermore, on Wednesday, in the early morning, she also felt sick with the same symptoms.
Dianne Webstrer
In the morning, she only had breakfast with her family on one day, the Wednesday, because it was raining. On the other days, she spent the mornings playing tennis.- Still, she explains, on May 2, the eve of disappearance of MADELEINE she had taken her breakfast in the restaurant "MILLENNIUM", since it was raining that day and she did not have an opportunity to partake of the morning sports.
9.00am
RAIN
NO TENNIS
DW: "It was self service and I don’t really err didn’t think much to the food. (Sighs) Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday I remember it rained, it was raining so the tennis lesson err which normally started about, I think it was supposed to start at nine o’ clock but because people had children to get into err the, the play groups or whatever err our instructor decided I think that we’d start at quarter past nine so that was when tennis lesson started and it was for an hour I think, the tennis lesson. Err but on the Wednesday morning it was err delayed if you like, it wasn’t cancelled, we did have it later.”
DW: "It was self service and I don’t really err didn’t think much to the food. (Sighs) Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday I remember it rained, it was raining so the tennis lesson err which normally started about, I think it was supposed to start at nine o’ clock but because people had children to get into err the, the play groups or whatever err our instructor decided I think that we’d start at quarter past nine so that was when tennis lesson started and it was for an hour I think, the tennis lesson. Err but on the Wednesday morning it was err delayed if you like, it wasn’t cancelled, we did have it later.”
PC: "But Wednesday stands out to you because you know the weather wasn’t very good?”
DW: "Wednesday I remember because it was raining in the morning, we thought oh no tennis, you know, but we did have the tennis later on because I remember err we were waiting for the courts to dry.”
PC: "Tell me about the Wednesday then as far as you can remember from there.”
DW: "Well that morning I did go to the Millennium with Dave and Fiona err for breakfast because there was no tennis and I think we, we sat there and I think, I seem to recollect seeing Kate and Gerry then who were sitting with us and I think they’d just finished their breakfast or something, again I’m not clear on that.”
JT May 10
About 2 May, the day before the disappearance of MBM, from memory, at 09h00 the deponent had a tennis lesson with Kate.
Tuesday
10am
Cleaner saw cot in parents bedroom
Cleaner cleaned shutters and made beds so Madeleine's bed should have been slept in on Wed night and Thursday. (Photos show very neat)
Jane Tanner
NO TENNIS
4078 "Okay. What about during the day? Can you remember anything about the
during the day?”
Reply "Err I had a tennis lesson in the morning and then that, it was then supposed to be the
second windsurfing lesson err and we couldn’t go windsurfing because it was too
windy because it was a bit, the weather wasn’t great, it was too windy so they didn’t,
weren’t able to go out windsurfing so they said do you want to go sailing instead and
Russell wasn’t there so I maybe think he was looking after Exx, maybe that was
maybe the morning was the day that she didn’t go to the kids club, which
would make sense if it was the Tuesday night that…”
4078 "Yeah.”
44.23 Reply "Err you know he’d stayed with her, and err so I actually went out sailing with, I
can’t remember his name, but somebody else that we’d, who was also doing the
windsurfing classes with. I can’t, I think Russell had hurt his wrist, he’d done
something, kayaking or sailing the day before, so he wasn’t bothered about going
because I know, I think the Portuguese found it really hard to understand that a bloke
would stay with a sick kid rather than me but err I think there was a reason he didn’t
want to go sailing plus he’s a Doctor and he’s a lot better with sick than I am, which
is totally honest, you know it’s totally honest so, err you know and I think in a way
the holiday was a bit of my break as much as his break because I was looking after
the kids all the while so.”
4078 "And also Russell was out at work and then the opportunity to spend time with the
children on holiday.”
Reply "No exactly, yeah.”
4078 "You were always with them and had…”
Reply "And I had the opportunity to do something different so, and I think that was a
sticking point when they interviewed me before, it was you know why didn’t I stay
with Exx all the time that she was you know, she was sick, and I think that was, as
you say for those reasons. One, he’s good with sick, and two it was my chance to
have a break from the, from the children.”
45.35 4078 "Yeah, well it worked well for both of you anyway.”
Reply "Yeah, so yeah.”
4078 "So you’d gone sailing.”
Reply "But there’s nothing odd about it.”
4078 "No.”
Reply "There’s nothing odd about the fact that he, he was staying with the children.”
4078 "Okay.”
Reply "Err yeah so I went sailing but with somebody else, who I can’t remember his name
but that is in my previous statement and Dave and Fi also, so they took one boat out
and I took the other boat out with this other chap.”
DW: "Wednesday I remember because it was raining in the morning, we thought oh no tennis, you know, but we did have the tennis later on because I remember err we were waiting for the courts to dry.”
PC: "Tell me about the Wednesday then as far as you can remember from there.”
DW: "Well that morning I did go to the Millennium with Dave and Fiona err for breakfast because there was no tennis and I think we, we sat there and I think, I seem to recollect seeing Kate and Gerry then who were sitting with us and I think they’d just finished their breakfast or something, again I’m not clear on that.”
JT May 10
About 2 May, the day before the disappearance of MBM, from memory, at 09h00 the deponent had a tennis lesson with Kate.
Tuesday
10am
Cleaner saw cot in parents bedroom
Cleaner cleaned shutters and made beds so Madeleine's bed should have been slept in on Wed night and Thursday. (Photos show very neat)
Jane Tanner
NO TENNIS
4078 "Okay. What about during the day? Can you remember anything about the
during the day?”
Reply "Err I had a tennis lesson in the morning and then that, it was then supposed to be the
second windsurfing lesson err and we couldn’t go windsurfing because it was too
windy because it was a bit, the weather wasn’t great, it was too windy so they didn’t,
weren’t able to go out windsurfing so they said do you want to go sailing instead and
Russell wasn’t there so I maybe think he was looking after Exx, maybe that was
maybe the morning was the day that she didn’t go to the kids club, which
would make sense if it was the Tuesday night that…”
4078 "Yeah.”
44.23 Reply "Err you know he’d stayed with her, and err so I actually went out sailing with, I
can’t remember his name, but somebody else that we’d, who was also doing the
windsurfing classes with. I can’t, I think Russell had hurt his wrist, he’d done
something, kayaking or sailing the day before, so he wasn’t bothered about going
because I know, I think the Portuguese found it really hard to understand that a bloke
would stay with a sick kid rather than me but err I think there was a reason he didn’t
want to go sailing plus he’s a Doctor and he’s a lot better with sick than I am, which
is totally honest, you know it’s totally honest so, err you know and I think in a way
the holiday was a bit of my break as much as his break because I was looking after
the kids all the while so.”
4078 "And also Russell was out at work and then the opportunity to spend time with the
children on holiday.”
Reply "No exactly, yeah.”
4078 "You were always with them and had…”
Reply "And I had the opportunity to do something different so, and I think that was a
sticking point when they interviewed me before, it was you know why didn’t I stay
with Exx all the time that she was you know, she was sick, and I think that was, as
you say for those reasons. One, he’s good with sick, and two it was my chance to
have a break from the, from the children.”
45.35 4078 "Yeah, well it worked well for both of you anyway.”
Reply "Yeah, so yeah.”
4078 "So you’d gone sailing.”
Reply "But there’s nothing odd about it.”
4078 "No.”
Reply "There’s nothing odd about the fact that he, he was staying with the children.”
4078 "Okay.”
Reply "Err yeah so I went sailing but with somebody else, who I can’t remember his name
but that is in my previous statement and Dave and Fi also, so they took one boat out
and I took the other boat out with this other chap.”
4078 “Yeah, it does, but just to clarify though, that on the , when you saw
Madeleine and Exxxx had her tennis lesson, do you remember if Russell was there
then?”
Reply “I don’t remember if he was there, but I don’t’ think so”.
4078 “But on the Thursday he was there”.
Reply “He was definitely there”.
4078 “Watching Madeleine and Exxxx”.
Reply “It was the other, it was other part of the, it was the same age group but it was the
other half of the group that were having their tennis lesson”.
j me, Rachael and Kate watched Ella and
Madeleine having their tennis lesson
NOTE: Madeleine' tennis was Tuesday 10.30-11am
Claims 6 children - 7 on Wed
Matthew
I can remember bits of the Wednesday because we did things that were slightly different because it rained.
Madeleine and Exxxx had her tennis lesson, do you remember if Russell was there
then?”
Reply “I don’t remember if he was there, but I don’t’ think so”.
4078 “But on the Thursday he was there”.
Reply “He was definitely there”.
4078 “Watching Madeleine and Exxxx”.
Reply “It was the other, it was other part of the, it was the same age group but it was the
other half of the group that were having their tennis lesson”.
j me, Rachael and Kate watched Ella and
Madeleine having their tennis lesson
NOTE: Madeleine' tennis was Tuesday 10.30-11am
Claims 6 children - 7 on Wed
Kids Club (E*** & Madeleine plus 4 other children also had a tennis lesson. (berry patel naylor mann totman (5) on wed (4 on Tuesday)
Jane Tanner and Kate watched kids lesson on tennis court, but left before finish
<-------------
j Wednesday, when you saw
Madeleine and Ella had her tennis lesson, do you remember if Russell was there
“I don’t remember if he was there, but I don’t think so
JT May 10th
At 10h10 the children at Kids Club, her daughter El (and MBM), a total on six children including them, also had a tennis lesson. The responsible adults at the time were Cat and Georgina (tennis instructor). Kate was, together with the deponent, watching the lesson of their respective girls. (WRONG DAY?Tuesday?)
Madeleine and Ella had her tennis lesson, do you remember if Russell was there
“I don’t remember if he was there, but I don’t think so
JT May 10th
At 10h10 the children at Kids Club, her daughter El (and MBM), a total on six children including them, also had a tennis lesson. The responsible adults at the time were Cat and Georgina (tennis instructor). Kate was, together with the deponent, watching the lesson of their respective girls. (WRONG DAY?Tuesday?)
Matthew
I can remember bits of the Wednesday because we did things that were slightly different because it rained.
NO TENNIS
Rachael
it was supposed to be on the, we had a private lesson and it was supposed to be on the Wednesday but it was a wet day, so it ended up being the Thursday
then we booked a private lesson, erm which we supposed to have on the Wednesday but I was ill on the Tuesday night, erm so on Wednesday, actually on Wednesday it was raining anyway, so I think all, all the tennis lessons and everything were cancelled, erm but so I was ill so, I was in bed”.
1578 “And when you say we, you’re referring to yourself and Matthew”?
Reply “Yes, yeah, erm so yeah Wednesday was slightly different I suppose cos it rained and things were off, although by the afternoon it had cleared up
Rachael
it was supposed to be on the, we had a private lesson and it was supposed to be on the Wednesday but it was a wet day, so it ended up being the Thursday
then we booked a private lesson, erm which we supposed to have on the Wednesday but I was ill on the Tuesday night, erm so on Wednesday, actually on Wednesday it was raining anyway, so I think all, all the tennis lessons and everything were cancelled, erm but so I was ill so, I was in bed”.
1578 “And when you say we, you’re referring to yourself and Matthew”?
Reply “Yes, yeah, erm so yeah Wednesday was slightly different I suppose cos it rained and things were off, although by the afternoon it had cleared up
No, one of the days, I think, Matt did a bit of sailing one of the days later on, it wasn’t the Sunday, erm, I would guess either the Tuesday or the , erm, I can’t remember which morning, but he didn’t have the lesson, he just wanted to take a boat out, erm, so one of those mornings he, he did take, erm, a catamaran out on his own”.
DW: "Err and then we would have, well we would have gone back to the apartment, I can’t remember if it was still raining. I just don’t remember
11.00am
Jane Tanner
4078 “Next number is 013xx”?
Reply “That’s a Exeter number”.
4078 “4xxxxx”?
Reply “xxxx, oh I think that might be, is that a pre school over there”.
4078 “That would sound about right”.
Reply “Yeah I think it would be a, don’t know if I’ve got the number on here any more because erm she’s gone to school now but erm the only per, I can if it’s, you know I think it must be erm Stoke (inaudible), I can only think that it’s a pre, pre school number, I don’t know if that makes sense but”.
19.25 4078 “And that was rang on the second of May, do you remember ringing them from Portugal”?
Reply “Oh yes it was to say, cos I hadn’t actually told them, yes it would be Stoke Hill Pre School cos erm, cos we’d been off, she’d been off the week before because she’d been in Hospital, I hadn’t actually told them we were going on holiday that week, so I was ringing to say that she wouldn’t be in that week as well”.
47.23 4078 "And on the at the sailing, you mentioned there was somebody else
present, you couldn’t remember their name.”
Reply "Yeah.”
4078 "Was that another guest?”
Reply "That was, yeah that was another guest and his wife actually did the tennis lessons
with us err and he’d done the first, I say, he was, the rest of us who did the
windsurfing, it was Russ, me, Dave and Fi, and this other chap on the first day so I’d
met him on the, would it be the Sunday or the mon, the Monday, I met him on the
Monday. So Russell didn’t come down for the err the second windsurfing lesson
which turned into a sailing lesson.”
4078 "Yeah, I’m with you there.”
Reply "So, yeah, so we took a boat out and Dave and Fi took a boat out.”
4078 "Right. If his name comes back to you at some point just let me know.”
Reply "Rob? I think it might have been Rob, but…”
4078 "Right.”
Reply "But it’s definitely in my first statement, so, but I think he was called Rob.”
4078 "Okay. And that was all during the morning was it, the same?”
Reply "That was all in the morning yeah.”
No, I got that wrong, sorry, doh, I
got it wrong actually. So that, you know how I said on the we had been
watching them having their tennis lesson and we spoke to the chap, it wasn’t the
person that said ‘Isn’t it bad that you video’. Exxxx, so, hang on, let’s go back. I’m
just getting myself all. On the me, Rachael and Kate watched Exxxx and
Madeleine having their tennis lesson”.
4078 “Yeah”.
Reply “But then on the Thursday another group of children came down for their tennis
lesson and that’s when Russell and this other person was there with the video camera
JT May 10th
The witness left before the class (kids) ended, not recalling if KM left at the same time or later
(WRONG DAY?Tuesday?
JT May 10th
She went to the beach where she met DP and FP. She and other members of the group made the acquaintance of, in the course of their tennis classes, a lady called O., the deponent's husband, ROB, also knew the lady's husband named Rob from windsurf classes. The couple (Rob and O.) were also guests at the complex. That morning, after having been to her daughter's tennis class, the deponent went to the beach meeting Rob there. From what she knows, the couple Rob and O. have two children (a girl of 3 years and a younger child, not knowing if it was a boy or girl). She thinks they were Londoners. They were "normal" people.
Tuesday?
Jane went to beach. Met Paynes. Also met Rob (husband of Ornya) staying at resort
Jane went sailing. Russel stayed in apartment as Evie ws feeling sick.
ROB
Reply "Err so I don’t know if it’s maybe, if you say over, over, during, over the week I checked on some occasions and missed others but it doesn’t, that’s not specifically for the Wednesday night… Err I don’t remember ever saying this bit, I don’t even know if we have any photographs of this, we didn’t have much in the way of photographs, for some reason our camera never left the flat very often so I recall Madeleine and E**a, they were less than a day before.”
4064 "Wasn’t Jane the one responsible for the picture of Madeleine with the tennis ball?”
Reply "I don’t think so, I think that was from someone else’s camera.”
4064 "Right.”
Reply "But I may be wrong there.”
4064 "Right.”
Reply "But err but I don’t, I honestly don’t think that that was actually a photo from Jane’s camera.”
4064 "Right.”
Reply "So I don’t know, my own memory from there was Jane anyway but I recall Madeleine and E**a as I say less than a day before and the rest of it I don’t think I can, I’m not entirely sure that’s correct anyway. We had back, we’ve had our pictures from, yeah we’ve got our, we’ve got the pictures and I don’t recall ever seeing the one that was err that was on…”
Matthew
ROB
Reply "Err so I don’t know if it’s maybe, if you say over, over, during, over the week I checked on some occasions and missed others but it doesn’t, that’s not specifically for the Wednesday night… Err I don’t remember ever saying this bit, I don’t even know if we have any photographs of this, we didn’t have much in the way of photographs, for some reason our camera never left the flat very often so I recall Madeleine and E**a, they were less than a day before.”
4064 "Wasn’t Jane the one responsible for the picture of Madeleine with the tennis ball?”
Reply "I don’t think so, I think that was from someone else’s camera.”
4064 "Right.”
Reply "But I may be wrong there.”
4064 "Right.”
Reply "But err but I don’t, I honestly don’t think that that was actually a photo from Jane’s camera.”
4064 "Right.”
Reply "So I don’t know, my own memory from there was Jane anyway but I recall Madeleine and E**a as I say less than a day before and the rest of it I don’t think I can, I’m not entirely sure that’s correct anyway. We had back, we’ve had our pictures from, yeah we’ve got our, we’ve got the pictures and I don’t recall ever seeing the one that was err that was on…”
Matthew
on one day in the past week during which it rained in PdL (thinking it was 2 May, the day before the disappearance) he went on a 40-minute run on the streets around the resort together with KM.
Matt
on one day in the past week during which it rained in PdL (thinking it was 2 May, the day before the disappearance) he went on a 40-minute run on the streets around the resort together with KM.
Okay. So, by the Wednesday then, was pretty much confined to the apartment, if you like?”
Reply “Yeah”.
4078 “And do you remember what you did that day?”
Reply “Erm, I remember I went running with Kate at lunchtime, she’s quite a good runner, and we went out on the road all the way up to the main junc, erm, the sort of main road where you access Praia da Luz from and then back”.
4078 “What sort of distance would that be?”
Reply “Erm, yeah, I think it’d be about three or four miles, maybe each way”.
4078 “And you run, do you often run?”
Reply “Erm, no, I don’t like it, but I quite like it on holiday when it’s a bit warmer and it’s not so bad on your joints and I quite like running on the beach, because it feels quite sort of Bay Watch and it’s kind of Californian”.
4078 “In your own mind, yeah”.
Reply “Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then I woke up. But, erm, yeah, but, erm, no, she’s quite a good runner and I quite enjoy it every now and again, but, if it’s sort of unusual and you’re sort of exploring a bit”.
00.40.05 4078 “And how did”.
Reply “I can’t remember how that came about”.
4078 “That is what I was going to ask”.
Reply “Yeah, erm, it may have been that, because I think Kate might have run most days, because she was quite a keen runner, and it may just be that either I thought I’d go for a run and she was already changed, or I was changed and, or Gerry might have said that, erm, I’m speculating, it may just have been coincidence that we both got into running gear and then decided to run together”.
4078 “But you went on this route and are saying you found it quite hard to keep up?”
Reply “Yeah, well, yeah, she’s quite a good runner”.
4078 “Right. Do you remember what you had one before that, in the morning?”
Reply “No, I have a feeling that on the Tuesday was one of the sessions that the guys had, either a wind surf or a sailing lesson down the beach, note avoiding?
Matt
on one day in the past week during which it rained in PdL (thinking it was 2 May, the day before the disappearance) he went on a 40-minute run on the streets around the resort together with KM.
Okay. So, by the Wednesday then, was pretty much confined to the apartment, if you like?”
Reply “Yeah”.
4078 “And do you remember what you did that day?”
Reply “Erm, I remember I went running with Kate at lunchtime, she’s quite a good runner, and we went out on the road all the way up to the main junc, erm, the sort of main road where you access Praia da Luz from and then back”.
4078 “What sort of distance would that be?”
Reply “Erm, yeah, I think it’d be about three or four miles, maybe each way”.
4078 “And you run, do you often run?”
Reply “Erm, no, I don’t like it, but I quite like it on holiday when it’s a bit warmer and it’s not so bad on your joints and I quite like running on the beach, because it feels quite sort of Bay Watch and it’s kind of Californian”.
4078 “In your own mind, yeah”.
Reply “Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then I woke up. But, erm, yeah, but, erm, no, she’s quite a good runner and I quite enjoy it every now and again, but, if it’s sort of unusual and you’re sort of exploring a bit”.
00.40.05 4078 “And how did”.
Reply “I can’t remember how that came about”.
4078 “That is what I was going to ask”.
Reply “Yeah, erm, it may have been that, because I think Kate might have run most days, because she was quite a keen runner, and it may just be that either I thought I’d go for a run and she was already changed, or I was changed and, or Gerry might have said that, erm, I’m speculating, it may just have been coincidence that we both got into running gear and then decided to run together”.
4078 “But you went on this route and are saying you found it quite hard to keep up?”
Reply “Yeah, well, yeah, she’s quite a good runner”.
4078 “Right. Do you remember what you had one before that, in the morning?”
Reply “No, I have a feeling that on the Tuesday was one of the sessions that the guys had, either a wind surf or a sailing lesson down the beach, note avoiding?
Midday
JT
4078 "And then come lunch time do you remember if you went to collect…”
Reply "Russell would have gone to collect Exxxx because the sailing finished at half twelve so
I think I, I know the first day when we had the wind surfing it was quite a rush to
pick them both up so I’m guessing if he wasn’t doing the sailing he would have
picked up Exxxx.”
48.37 4078 "Okay. And can you remember what happened then for the rest of the day from your
point of view?”
Reply "No. Err the , err again I think it would have just been a, Exx would have
had a sleep and just round the pool or in the, each other apartments, until, until high
tea but I think Exxxx, and Exxxx would have, Exxxx went to err, Exxxx went to the err the kids
club. Actually that morning was the morning Exxxx and Madeleine had the tennis
lesson I think on the . You’ve got the picture of…”
4078 "Yeah.”
Reply "Err so after the, would it be the , after our tennis lesson they all came
down so we did stay and watch them for a bit, so that makes me wonder if it was
actually the sailing that day. No, yeah because the sailing started, sorry, the sailing
started at half eleven so between half ten and half eleven that day we would have
stood and, we stood and watched, I stood with Kate and probably Rachael we
watched them having their, the kids having their tennis lesson. And I think Russell
was there, yeah Russell was there with Exx then so yeah I think Russell had probably
spent the morning with Exx and then be watching us play tennis and we watched
Exxxx.”
50.03 4078 "So that was definitely the morning you think (inaudible) left to go to kids club?”
Reply "I think that, as much as I can remember I’m fairly sure that was, and that’s the
morning when we had the conversation, which I think is in some of our statements
but one of the other parents was there videoing them having a tennis lesson and at
that point we were sort of saying it’s so ridiculous that you’re not allowed to, you
know, people look at you funny if you’re doing this now, blah, blah, and it was
almost like sort of afterwards, you know, we were all going oh yeah it’s ridiculous
you have to worry about this sort of thing and you can’t take pictures of your own
children, blah, blah, blah.”
4078 "Mm, so there was Rachael, Kate, you, Russell.”
Reply "Yeah.”
4078 "Gerry?”
Reply "Err he would have probably, I think he’d started his tennis lesson on the other court
so they were using one court for the err for the kids and the other court for the
intermediate tennis people.”
4078 "And was Matthew around?”
Reply "No he tended to do more, he’s a keen sailor so he tended to do more of the beach,
beach activities so don’t think he was, I don’t think he was there then.”
4078 "Okay.”
Reply "But I, that again is, I can’t say for sure, but I don’t think he was.”
4078 "And what about David and Fiona? I know you went sailing with them later on.”
51.10 Reply "Yeah, err I don’t think they were, I can’t say for sure but I don’t think they were. I
can remember, I can remember specifically Kate being there and, and Rachael and
Russell, but no I can’t remember if anybody else was there. I don’t think they were.
There was other parents there, they were, there was other people we’d had our tennis
lesson with and their children were actually having the tennis lesson as well so they
were watching.”
4078 "And do you remember whether it was a good day or bad day weather wise that
point?”
Reply "Well if it was the day I went sailing it was quite, really windy, so I don’t think it was
a particularly fantastic day.”
4078 "Okay, so that takes us up until lunch time on the then.”
Reply "Yeah.”
4078 "Do you remember if you went to David and Fiona’s, was it every day you went
there, or?”
Reply "Err I think, it was every day except I think on the Thursday we actually ate in, Matt
and Rachael came to our apartment, it was just us and Matt and Rachael. I can’t
remember why we didn’t go up to Dave and Fi’s but I don’t know whether one of
their kids had gone to bed already or something but I think every day up to that point
we had eaten in their apartment, but on the Thursday it was just Matt and Rachael
came, came, came to ours.”
52.26 4078 "Okay. So on the then you’re likely to have been at David and Fiona’s?”
Reply "I think so. I’m not sure but I think so.”
JT May 10th While she was sailing, her husband stayed at home with Ev who was sick
Tuesday?
JT May 10 after the boat trip she was with her husband and girls, all having gone to lunch at the apartment of FP and DP. She is not sure but thinks that MO and RMO also lunched with them in the apartment
Tuesday?
Matthew
became I think unwell over the Tuesday night and was, erm, mostly sort of pottering about the apartment on the Wednesday
1.00pm
ROB
The Wednesday, one of the days I went out with Russell and we just bobbed about on the kayaks because, and I think that was either a Monday or a Tuesday. When did I go back into the water, have I missed one. One of the days we were bobbing about on the water just sort of chatting at lunchtime”.
2.00pm
JT
4078 "Right. Do you remember what happened in the afternoon on the ?”
Reply "Err no, the afternoons are harder in a way because there was no set activities to jog,
jog my memory, but err no I mean Russell tended to go and do something like go on
the kayak or something, I imagined if he’d been looking after Exx in the morning he
might have gone and gone on the kayak for an hour or something but I can’t say for
sure. But I think Exx just had her sleep and we’d have gone, and then gone down to
the, gone down to the pool bit again.”
After lunch, Russell took E*** to Kids Club, then went for canoeing lesson. Jane stayed in apartment with E***. Then took E*** to play area by pool.
JT May 10 - After lunch, after they took El to Kids Club, ROB went to the beach for a canoe class while she rested in the bedroom with Ev. After her daughter woke up she went with her to the children's play area ("slides") next to the pool.
Tuesday?
3.00pm
JT May 10 - She doesn't remember, but as GM usually had tennis classes every afternoon, she thinks that he could have been on the court. As for KM, she does not know if she saw her during the afternoon.
Tuesday
4.00pm
5.00pm
JT
WED/Thursd
Tuesday?
3.00pm
JT May 10 - She doesn't remember, but as GM usually had tennis classes every afternoon, she thinks that he could have been on the court. As for KM, she does not know if she saw her during the afternoon.
Tuesday
4.00pm
5.00pm
JT
WED/Thursd
Teatime for children. Met Kate and Gerry.
Played with adults and children on tennis courts.
Women went to apartment with children. Men played more tennis.
Played with adults and children on tennis courts.
Women went to apartment with children. Men played more tennis.
DW: "Err so from what I can recall, the last time I would have seen Madeleine would have been the Wednesday at the high tea probably.”
6.00pm
Matt
you have remembered, for example, that was unwell all day on the Wednesday, so therefore you had gone for a run with Kate. I am guessing, would that have been when G***e was asleep or?”
Reply “I think that was lunchtime”.
4078 “Yeah. Do you remember what you did after your run with Kate?”
Reply “No, because I’d have been on, I’d have been on G***e duty I think that afternoon. So given that was unwell and she was sort of in and out of bed (inaudible). Erm, but a lot of the time we ended up, there was sort of like a play area by the pool with sort of like a plastic, you know, sort of house and little slides, and we spent most evenings, after the kids, because the kids ate a little bit earlier, they ate about sort of quarter to five sometime round there, they’d have their tea, and we’d all move over to this sort of play area, because, I mean, it was fantastic, because there was just like little play houses and things and, you know, sort of lots of grass, so there’d be lots of sort of, they’d sort of chase each other round, they’d play on these bits and, you know, we’d chase them, erm, backwards and forwards, you know, taking it in turns and just sort of stand around and chat. Some people might play tennis at that point in sort of part of the social games, because they did, they did like a sort of mixed, women’s night, men’s night, social, like that. So there was definitely times when was on the court,
Fiona
I think the Monday or the Tuesday was women’s night, erm, the I think was the beat the instructors and Thursday was the men’s tennis.
7.00pm
JT
59.17 4078 "Okay. And so we’ve come to the night and you’ve had a few more
drinks than you had done previously and you had a later night. Was Exx all better by
that stage?”
Reply "Yeah she’d been running around in the day so, we did umm and ahh about you
know, I think we did think oh shall I stay with her but she’d been so happy all day we
just thought I think she’s fine and we were doing the checks so yeah we didn’t, we
thought you know we thought she was fine, as I say she’d been fine since she’d had
the one which was more from the milk, it was the UHT milk that didn’t agree with
her.”
4078 "And from the comments amongst the group, how were the other children doing?”
Reply "Yeah fine, yeah they were, they were tired. I think the night, there was
one night when Exxxx had a complete meltdown and sort of, she’s not sort of a
tantrumy child but she was so tired she just sort of crashed and screamed during bath
time. I think that might have been, I’m not sure if that was the , it could
have been the but she just had a complete, you know how the kids do
when they’re tired, complete meltdown and there’s screaming and they’re so tired it
was quite hard to settle her but then she just, she just crashed, but there was, I think
that was the night that she, I mean by, when we were playing in the play
area she sort of lay on the floor and started, which she doesn’t do at all so we knew
she was, we knew she was shattered at that point. But I think that, I think that was the
.”
4078 “Next number’s a mobile number and it starts with 44 because they do when they’re abroad don’t they”?
Reply “Yeah”.
4078 “But it would normally be 07xxx xxxxxx”?
Reply “Erm could you say it again sorry 0”?
4078 “07xxx”.
Reply “Yeah”.
4078 “xxxxxx”?
Reply “I think that’s my sister (inaudible)”.
4078 “Kxxx Vxxx”?
Reply “Kxxx Mxxxx, 8xxxxx no, erm, that number rings a bell but (inaudible). Can you tell me when that was, just so it might help me to”
4078 “Yes erm twenty seven minutes past nine on the second of May, twenty seven minutes past seven on the second of May in the evening”.
Reply “So that would be on the , is that a text or a”?
4078 “Yes it was a text yes”.
Reply “What was the last three numbers again sorry”?
21.01 4078 “xxx, have a look under, under your mum’s listing”.
Reply “Right. Yeah mum mob”.
4078 “Yeah that’s on there”.
Reply “(Inaudible), I don’t know what that would, that would probably just be say we were having a nice time or whatever”.
8.00pm
Gerry Arrived at tapas with ROB according to Jez Wilkins
Kate Did not arrive at tapas with Gerry according to Jez Wilkins (told putting children to bed)
Goncalo says Madeleines bed shows no signs of being slept in
Russell O’Brien went to Tapas for dinner. JT stayed in apartment with E*** who wouldn’t sleep .E*** asleep. JT to Tapas.
All adults at Tapas except Rachel Mampilly, who was feeling unwell. Her husband was at the Tapas. Paynes arrived late, as usual.
David Payne
"What about the night before? The Wednesday night, did you take any pictures, were any pictures taken then? Or did you see any pictures being taken then?”
Reply "In the evening?”
1485 "Yeah, because I understand that you stayed later on the Wednesday night.”
Reply "We did, yes, err the pictures that I’ve got, there are some pictures on one of the evenings and I can’t say which evening that was.”
9.00pm
Gerry
On Wednesday night, 2 May 2007, apart from the deponent and his wife, he thinks that DAVID PAYNE also went to his apartment to check that his children were well, not having reported to him any abnormal situation with the children.
Reply “Yeah”.
4078 “But it would normally be 07xxx xxxxxx”?
Reply “Erm could you say it again sorry 0”?
4078 “07xxx”.
Reply “Yeah”.
4078 “xxxxxx”?
Reply “I think that’s my sister (inaudible)”.
4078 “Kxxx Vxxx”?
Reply “Kxxx Mxxxx, 8xxxxx no, erm, that number rings a bell but (inaudible). Can you tell me when that was, just so it might help me to”
4078 “Yes erm twenty seven minutes past nine on the second of May, twenty seven minutes past seven on the second of May in the evening”.
Reply “So that would be on the , is that a text or a”?
4078 “Yes it was a text yes”.
Reply “What was the last three numbers again sorry”?
21.01 4078 “xxx, have a look under, under your mum’s listing”.
Reply “Right. Yeah mum mob”.
4078 “Yeah that’s on there”.
Reply “(Inaudible), I don’t know what that would, that would probably just be say we were having a nice time or whatever”.
8.00pm
Gerry Arrived at tapas with ROB according to Jez Wilkins
Kate Did not arrive at tapas with Gerry according to Jez Wilkins (told putting children to bed)
Goncalo says Madeleines bed shows no signs of being slept in
Russell O’Brien went to Tapas for dinner. JT stayed in apartment with E*** who wouldn’t sleep .E*** asleep. JT to Tapas.
All adults at Tapas except Rachel Mampilly, who was feeling unwell. Her husband was at the Tapas. Paynes arrived late, as usual.
David Payne
"What about the night before? The Wednesday night, did you take any pictures, were any pictures taken then? Or did you see any pictures being taken then?”
Reply "In the evening?”
1485 "Yeah, because I understand that you stayed later on the Wednesday night.”
Reply "We did, yes, err the pictures that I’ve got, there are some pictures on one of the evenings and I can’t say which evening that was.”
9.00pm
Gerry
On Wednesday night, 2 May 2007, apart from the deponent and his wife, he thinks that DAVID PAYNE also went to his apartment to check that his children were well, not having reported to him any abnormal situation with the children.
On this day, the deponent and KATE had already left the back door closed, but not locked, to allow entrance by their group colleagues to check on the children. He clarifies that the main door was always closed but not necessarily locked with the key. He does not know if the window next to the front door, and that gave access to the children's bedroom, was locked, given that he assumed that the shutters could not be opened from the outside.
JT
Asked if they had heard if one of McCann twins had cried that night, JT replied “No”. Kate Healy had mentioned the following night at dinner (3/5) that Madeleine had asked her that morning (3/5) why she (Kate) had not come to her room when one of the twins cried.
**NOTE See Thursday May 4 statement
Rob
don’t recall the Trivia Quiz, that was the night I wasn’t there, it is only speaking to other people, erm, that I know that that was, that that was the night I missed. On Wednesday, it might be worth saying that ‘ was ill and stayed in the flat’”.
1578 “Right. So ‘On Wednesday was ill and stayed in the flat’?”
JT
Asked if they had heard if one of McCann twins had cried that night, JT replied “No”. Kate Healy had mentioned the following night at dinner (3/5) that Madeleine had asked her that morning (3/5) why she (Kate) had not come to her room when one of the twins cried.
**NOTE See Thursday May 4 statement
Rob
don’t recall the Trivia Quiz, that was the night I wasn’t there, it is only speaking to other people, erm, that I know that that was, that that was the night I missed. On Wednesday, it might be worth saying that ‘ was ill and stayed in the flat’”.
1578 “Right. So ‘On Wednesday was ill and stayed in the flat’?”
and the only reason I mentioned that was, if you had that information in other people’s statements about what night the quiz took place on, that was the night I wasn’t there”.
00.47.55 1578 “Right. ‘I recall there was a Trivia Quiz on either the Tuesday or Wednesday evening’
NOTE: ROB Cant recall the quiz night or when he wasnt there but specifically remembers wasnt there on Wed
Matt
Okay. Right. The Tuesday evening would have been the evening that stayed in the apartment?”
Reply “ was sort of, erm, became unwell the Tuesday evening, erm, and she stayed in the apartment, yeah”.
01.01.34 4078 “The reason I am specific about that is because there is a statement from somebody who says they hear children crying and I think it is the Tuesday evening, I will stand corrected if I am wrong, it was either the Tuesday or the Wednesday”.
Reply “Yeah”.
4078 “So I must make a point of mentioning it to the other Officer to specifically ask . I am sure she will recall and say if there was anything relevant but we must ask”.
Reply “Yeah, I think, for some reason, she’s, I don’t know whether that’s come up before, maybe just asked her non-specifically did she hear anything, but I didn’t on the Sunday night and, you know, she’d have said if, and she’s never said that she heard anything”.
4078 “Yeah. Okay. I will just make a note to myself though just to remind me because, as I say, whilst you are here it is best to ask all the questions”.
Reply “Yeah”.
4078 “Okay. So that takes us really up until the Wednesday night.
it got cloudy and it rained on the Wednesday and the Wednesday evening was pretty sort of, in the evenings it was very cold, so at the Tapas Restaurant, when we were there, we’d often, you know, you’d need a jumper if you sat outside and there was no heat particularly
Rachael
so on Wednesday night I didn’t go to dinner cos I’d thrown up the night before, you know it was just another weird thing about holiday cos I’m never ill, neither is Matt, as long as I’ve known him I’ve never known him be sick, erm”.
1578 “So you, on the Wednesday evening then, you stayed in the apartment with G***e”?
Reply “Yeah, yeah. I remember reading my book on the sofa for a while and then think I, I went to bed but it would have been quite, you know it would have been about nine, cos I’d been up most of the night before,
I know that on Thursday night when we sat down at the table, Kate said that to Madeleine and Sean had you know, said they’d been crying on the Wednesday night and asking where erm, they’d said they’d been crying and, and some, you know, this is sort of with hindsight but I you know, I was trying to think whether I’d heard anything but”.
1578 “On the Wednesday evening”.
Reply “Mmm”.
So whilst you were in the apartment on the Wednesday evening, did you hear anything unusual”?
Reply “No, nothing, no, erm it”.
1578 “Did you hear the patio door slide next door for example”?
Reply “Mmm no, mmm no”.
1578 “Did you hear that sliding at any point during the holiday”?
Reply “Mmm erm no not that I remember, I mean not”.
1578 “Was it physically possible to, to be in your apartment and hear the patio door slide in 5A”?
Reply “Erm if our patio doors had been open, you probably would have been able to yeah, cos the, their patio, oh no, there were, erm, is that a win, just a window, because Gerry and Kate’s apartment was bigger than ours, we just had one set of patio doors at the back and then next to our lounge, it was their bedroom and then there were big windows there, I’m not sure whether they’d have opened or not, erm and then on the, and then next to them were the patio doors that were the access doors”.
1578 “Okay”.
Reply “Or the ones that we used as the access doors, erm”.
1578 “So there was sort of a room between their patio doors and your”?
Reply “Yes, yeah, I mean I think, I don’t know, maybe, I mean if our patio doors were open and you kind of mmm, or if you were sitting on the veranda, you’d probably hear their doors sliding, but otherwise not, I don’t think you would really, erm”.
00.47.52 1578 “And do you recall at what time you slept that evening”?
Reply “I think I went to bed about nine-ish, erm but I couldn’t say that for definite”.
1578 “And you didn’t hear anything unusual”?
Reply “No”.
1578 “Did you see anything unusual”?
Reply “No”.
1578 “Anyone hanging around”?
Reply “There was just never anyone around, that was the thing you know, it was just like dead the place really, you know which is why we, kind of all comfortable in leaving the children and going back and checking them, cos if it had been really busy, we wouldn’t have done that, you know if there’d been lots of people milling around all the time, it wouldn’t have felt right, I mean the place was empty”.
1578 “Yes”.
Reply “You know it was so quiet, you know it was the beginning of the season and erm, yeah, you know if it had been remotely busy, you know, it wouldn’t have felt right leaving them and just going back and checking them now and then”.
10.00pm
11.00pm
Gerry
Still on this night, KATE slept in the children's bedroom, in the bed next to the window, because the deponent was snoring.
Concerning his wife, he says that on the Wednesday she slept in the children’s room in the bed next to the window. He doesn’t know why, but thinks it could have been because of his snoring. Also on that day, after dinner, he returned to the apartment sooner than Kate.
Goncalo says Madeleines bed shows no signs of being slept in
Kate
When asked if she ever slept in Madeleine’s bedroom, she says that such happened on the Wednesday, because she was annoyed with Gerry. He ignored her after dinner when they went to the Tapas bar, which only happened that day. She decided to retaliate by sleeping in the other bedroom, in the bed under the window. She doesn’t know if Gerry noticed this because he was sleeping when she left, and if in fact her husband was aware of this, he made no comment.
Regarding this night she said that none of the children cried, which she would have noticed as she was in the room
.Regarding the fact that on the next morning, Thursday, during breakfast, Madeleine said to both of them that she had been crying and that nobody had come to her room, she presumes that this crying must have been before she and Gerry returned to the apartment. When she asked Madeleine about this however, the child gave no importance to the matter.
JT
4078 "Right okay, so you’ve done lunch, you’re not a hundred percent certain
what you did in the afternoon.”
Reply "Yeah, no.”
4078 "And baring in mind this was like the last normal meal if you like.”
Reply "Yeah.”
4078 "At the Tapas bar, what can you remember about that?”
Reply "Well I’d say out of all the nights this was the one we stayed the latest the other
nights we’d been probably you know going quite err early and out of all the nights
this was probably the one where we did have more to drink than the other nights. I
mean not, not fourteen bottles or whatever they said but that night we probably had,
did have, it was probably the longer night that we stayed in the Tapas bar.”
4078 "Was Russell there?”
54.11 Reply "Russell was definitely there so yeah I think it was…”
4078 "It must have been the Tuesday then.”
Reply "I think it was definitely the Tuesday that he was, he wasn’t there.”
4078 "Okay.”
Reply "Err but Rachael wasn’t there that night because she’d got the bug that Matt had had
earlier in the week so she, she wasn’t there.”
4078 "Right.”
Reply "On the night.”
4078 "And what time do you think you stayed there until that night?”
Reply "I think it was midnight that night, it was quite, it was actually quite late because
after we’d finished the meal we actually went into the bar area just for a, for one, you
know, for a night cap. So that was, I think it, I don’t know whether it was quite as late
as midnight but it was definitely much later than any of the other nights we’d been
there.”
4078 "And how were the checks going with the children by that stage? Because by then it
would be like the fourth night you’d been to the Tapas. Sunday, Monday, Tuesday,
yeah the fourth.”
Reply "Yeah.”
4078 "So how had things developed by then?”
Reply "I’d say, I mean they were still as regular through the meal, that, the point where we
were in the bar at the end was probably the longest, that was probably about forty
minutes and I’d probably say during that forty minutes probably, I don’t know, we
didn’t go back to check so that was probably the longest that the check hadn’t been,
hadn’t been done you know. Err because I don’t, you know, I mean well one of us I
don’t think went back while we were in the bar area but we were probably in there
for about, it was probably about forty minutes.”
55.24 4078 "But from the early part of the evening there’d been fairly regular checks.”
Reply "Yeah, the same as, yeah the same as, the same as before. I can’t remember who
checked when or, you know, I can’t remember when, you know whether it was me or
Russell or whoever went back at that point. I don’t, I’m trying to think if by that point
we were checking on each other’s…”
4078 "That was part of my next question.”
Reply "Oh right. Err I mean I didn’t personally, I think, I mean I’ll tell you when I went
back I just tended to check on bars and I listened at Matt and Rachael’s, you know at
some point we listened at Matt and Rachael’s window and down there but err no I
can’t remember, but by that stage I think we were listening but we didn’t, I don’t
know whether people actually went in to, to be honest nobody, if we hadn’t gone
nobody could have gone in to ours because they’d need the key so when people did
check ours they did, they did just listen, so.”
ROB
1578 “Right. So ‘On Wednesday was ill and stayed in the flat’?”
In five ‘B’. It says ‘I checked the McCANN’s apartment’, erm, kind of implies I may have gone in. I think that I made a check to the apartments at that point, which would have been in, certainly by this point, it was generally a listen outside with the others and a check on your own”.
1578 “’I checked the McCANN’s apartment and I believe that this was around twenty-three hundred’?”
Reply “Yeah, I think this is a kind of fusion of all that we were discussing on the extra, the extra visits back from the bar and I said well within that hour I think me and Jane, yeah, me and Jane had gone back, you know, once each”.
1578 “And this was on the Wednesday?”
Reply “This was just the Wednesday. This is when we stayed, you know, after the meal we stayed in the bar area for a, you know, for a cocktail or something and then, erm, so we were out for a little longer than any of, any of the other nights. And on the, but the way it’s written there it says that I checked the McCANN’s apartment, but I think by this part of the week, certainly on my, from my, my own, when I went back I generally went into our apartment and then we’d just have a listen at the shutters on the others”.
00.50.33 1578 “So if I say or if we say there ‘I checked the McCANN’s apartment by listening at the shutters’?”
Reply “Yeah, yeah, from outside, yeah. And that would have been true for Matt’s as well.
22 Reply "I think in terms of number there, ‘a’ cocktail I think was, I don’t think was there, after all what has been said it was only the one (inaudible)… err just because this sounds specific for the Wednesday night err that’s, that was a kind of more generic thing.”
4064 "Yeah
Midnight
Kate
Goncalo says Madeleines bed shows no signs of being slept in
On that night they also checked on the children every half hour; however she thinks that 45 minutes had gone by from the time of the last check to when they arrived, as exceptionally they went to the Tapas’ bar. On this day she thinks that Gerry arrived at the apartment around 23:50 and she arrived 5 minutes later. She went to sleep in Madeleine’s room 15/20 minutes later. Before this she spent a few minutes in her bed next to Gerry.
JT
4078 “And you know you had said on the , I think it was the night,
yeah, you said that you had stayed later and had more to drink than the previous
nights?”
Reply “Umm”.
4078 “Do you remember sort of roughly how much you’d had?”
Reply “No, I mean, we weren’t, you know, I mean, we weren’t sort of like roaring drunk, it
wasn’t. Erm, but I think just because we’d been there longer we probably had, I
mean, I’d say I’d probably had four glasses of wine and then maybe the, I think at the
end, I can’t remember what sort of a liqueur at the end, so”.
4078 “That is not a lot in the course of the evening?”
Reply “No, I mean, over the, it wasn’t, it wasn’t loads, but, I mean, it was probably more
than other nights probably”.
ROB
On Wednesday was ill, we stayed out later than normal, after our meal we sat around and then moved into the bar area we stayed for around 45minutes to an hour, this was our only 'late night' of the holiday, I recall we had a cocktail. Checks were made as usual we would alternate completing the checks and this was done every half hour or so. I listened at (page 5) the MC CANN'S apartment and believe that this was around 23:00hours, on all occasions the children were ok. During the week I checked on some occasions and listened at others.
NOTE:
ROB consistently remembers that was missing
Matt
there was only one time that we ever went out for a drink after the meal, so normally the meal would finish around sort of ten and we’d tootle off back. And I was ill on one night, was ill on the Wednesday night and so the Wednesday night was the only time that I stayed out any later than that. So it was, and we’d already (inaudible), so it was sort of like an hour and a half of time that we were away, maybe two hours”.
00.47.55 1578 “Right. ‘I recall there was a Trivia Quiz on either the Tuesday or Wednesday evening’
NOTE: ROB Cant recall the quiz night or when he wasnt there but specifically remembers wasnt there on Wed
Matt
Okay. Right. The Tuesday evening would have been the evening that stayed in the apartment?”
Reply “ was sort of, erm, became unwell the Tuesday evening, erm, and she stayed in the apartment, yeah”.
01.01.34 4078 “The reason I am specific about that is because there is a statement from somebody who says they hear children crying and I think it is the Tuesday evening, I will stand corrected if I am wrong, it was either the Tuesday or the Wednesday”.
Reply “Yeah”.
4078 “So I must make a point of mentioning it to the other Officer to specifically ask . I am sure she will recall and say if there was anything relevant but we must ask”.
Reply “Yeah, I think, for some reason, she’s, I don’t know whether that’s come up before, maybe just asked her non-specifically did she hear anything, but I didn’t on the Sunday night and, you know, she’d have said if, and she’s never said that she heard anything”.
4078 “Yeah. Okay. I will just make a note to myself though just to remind me because, as I say, whilst you are here it is best to ask all the questions”.
Reply “Yeah”.
4078 “Okay. So that takes us really up until the Wednesday night.
it got cloudy and it rained on the Wednesday and the Wednesday evening was pretty sort of, in the evenings it was very cold, so at the Tapas Restaurant, when we were there, we’d often, you know, you’d need a jumper if you sat outside and there was no heat particularly
Rachael
so on Wednesday night I didn’t go to dinner cos I’d thrown up the night before, you know it was just another weird thing about holiday cos I’m never ill, neither is Matt, as long as I’ve known him I’ve never known him be sick, erm”.
1578 “So you, on the Wednesday evening then, you stayed in the apartment with G***e”?
Reply “Yeah, yeah. I remember reading my book on the sofa for a while and then think I, I went to bed but it would have been quite, you know it would have been about nine, cos I’d been up most of the night before,
I know that on Thursday night when we sat down at the table, Kate said that to Madeleine and Sean had you know, said they’d been crying on the Wednesday night and asking where erm, they’d said they’d been crying and, and some, you know, this is sort of with hindsight but I you know, I was trying to think whether I’d heard anything but”.
1578 “On the Wednesday evening”.
Reply “Mmm”.
So whilst you were in the apartment on the Wednesday evening, did you hear anything unusual”?
Reply “No, nothing, no, erm it”.
1578 “Did you hear the patio door slide next door for example”?
Reply “Mmm no, mmm no”.
1578 “Did you hear that sliding at any point during the holiday”?
Reply “Mmm erm no not that I remember, I mean not”.
1578 “Was it physically possible to, to be in your apartment and hear the patio door slide in 5A”?
Reply “Erm if our patio doors had been open, you probably would have been able to yeah, cos the, their patio, oh no, there were, erm, is that a win, just a window, because Gerry and Kate’s apartment was bigger than ours, we just had one set of patio doors at the back and then next to our lounge, it was their bedroom and then there were big windows there, I’m not sure whether they’d have opened or not, erm and then on the, and then next to them were the patio doors that were the access doors”.
1578 “Okay”.
Reply “Or the ones that we used as the access doors, erm”.
1578 “So there was sort of a room between their patio doors and your”?
Reply “Yes, yeah, I mean I think, I don’t know, maybe, I mean if our patio doors were open and you kind of mmm, or if you were sitting on the veranda, you’d probably hear their doors sliding, but otherwise not, I don’t think you would really, erm”.
00.47.52 1578 “And do you recall at what time you slept that evening”?
Reply “I think I went to bed about nine-ish, erm but I couldn’t say that for definite”.
1578 “And you didn’t hear anything unusual”?
Reply “No”.
1578 “Did you see anything unusual”?
Reply “No”.
1578 “Anyone hanging around”?
Reply “There was just never anyone around, that was the thing you know, it was just like dead the place really, you know which is why we, kind of all comfortable in leaving the children and going back and checking them, cos if it had been really busy, we wouldn’t have done that, you know if there’d been lots of people milling around all the time, it wouldn’t have felt right, I mean the place was empty”.
1578 “Yes”.
Reply “You know it was so quiet, you know it was the beginning of the season and erm, yeah, you know if it had been remotely busy, you know, it wouldn’t have felt right leaving them and just going back and checking them now and then”.
10.00pm
11.00pm
Gerry
Still on this night, KATE slept in the children's bedroom, in the bed next to the window, because the deponent was snoring.
Concerning his wife, he says that on the Wednesday she slept in the children’s room in the bed next to the window. He doesn’t know why, but thinks it could have been because of his snoring. Also on that day, after dinner, he returned to the apartment sooner than Kate.
Goncalo says Madeleines bed shows no signs of being slept in
Kate
When asked if she ever slept in Madeleine’s bedroom, she says that such happened on the Wednesday, because she was annoyed with Gerry. He ignored her after dinner when they went to the Tapas bar, which only happened that day. She decided to retaliate by sleeping in the other bedroom, in the bed under the window. She doesn’t know if Gerry noticed this because he was sleeping when she left, and if in fact her husband was aware of this, he made no comment.
Regarding this night she said that none of the children cried, which she would have noticed as she was in the room
.Regarding the fact that on the next morning, Thursday, during breakfast, Madeleine said to both of them that she had been crying and that nobody had come to her room, she presumes that this crying must have been before she and Gerry returned to the apartment. When she asked Madeleine about this however, the child gave no importance to the matter.
JT
4078 "Right okay, so you’ve done lunch, you’re not a hundred percent certain
what you did in the afternoon.”
Reply "Yeah, no.”
4078 "And baring in mind this was like the last normal meal if you like.”
Reply "Yeah.”
4078 "At the Tapas bar, what can you remember about that?”
Reply "Well I’d say out of all the nights this was the one we stayed the latest the other
nights we’d been probably you know going quite err early and out of all the nights
this was probably the one where we did have more to drink than the other nights. I
mean not, not fourteen bottles or whatever they said but that night we probably had,
did have, it was probably the longer night that we stayed in the Tapas bar.”
4078 "Was Russell there?”
54.11 Reply "Russell was definitely there so yeah I think it was…”
4078 "It must have been the Tuesday then.”
Reply "I think it was definitely the Tuesday that he was, he wasn’t there.”
4078 "Okay.”
Reply "Err but Rachael wasn’t there that night because she’d got the bug that Matt had had
earlier in the week so she, she wasn’t there.”
4078 "Right.”
Reply "On the night.”
4078 "And what time do you think you stayed there until that night?”
Reply "I think it was midnight that night, it was quite, it was actually quite late because
after we’d finished the meal we actually went into the bar area just for a, for one, you
know, for a night cap. So that was, I think it, I don’t know whether it was quite as late
as midnight but it was definitely much later than any of the other nights we’d been
there.”
4078 "And how were the checks going with the children by that stage? Because by then it
would be like the fourth night you’d been to the Tapas. Sunday, Monday, Tuesday,
yeah the fourth.”
Reply "Yeah.”
4078 "So how had things developed by then?”
Reply "I’d say, I mean they were still as regular through the meal, that, the point where we
were in the bar at the end was probably the longest, that was probably about forty
minutes and I’d probably say during that forty minutes probably, I don’t know, we
didn’t go back to check so that was probably the longest that the check hadn’t been,
hadn’t been done you know. Err because I don’t, you know, I mean well one of us I
don’t think went back while we were in the bar area but we were probably in there
for about, it was probably about forty minutes.”
55.24 4078 "But from the early part of the evening there’d been fairly regular checks.”
Reply "Yeah, the same as, yeah the same as, the same as before. I can’t remember who
checked when or, you know, I can’t remember when, you know whether it was me or
Russell or whoever went back at that point. I don’t, I’m trying to think if by that point
we were checking on each other’s…”
4078 "That was part of my next question.”
Reply "Oh right. Err I mean I didn’t personally, I think, I mean I’ll tell you when I went
back I just tended to check on bars and I listened at Matt and Rachael’s, you know at
some point we listened at Matt and Rachael’s window and down there but err no I
can’t remember, but by that stage I think we were listening but we didn’t, I don’t
know whether people actually went in to, to be honest nobody, if we hadn’t gone
nobody could have gone in to ours because they’d need the key so when people did
check ours they did, they did just listen, so.”
ROB
1578 “Right. So ‘On Wednesday was ill and stayed in the flat’?”
In five ‘B’. It says ‘I checked the McCANN’s apartment’, erm, kind of implies I may have gone in. I think that I made a check to the apartments at that point, which would have been in, certainly by this point, it was generally a listen outside with the others and a check on your own”.
1578 “’I checked the McCANN’s apartment and I believe that this was around twenty-three hundred’?”
Reply “Yeah, I think this is a kind of fusion of all that we were discussing on the extra, the extra visits back from the bar and I said well within that hour I think me and Jane, yeah, me and Jane had gone back, you know, once each”.
1578 “And this was on the Wednesday?”
Reply “This was just the Wednesday. This is when we stayed, you know, after the meal we stayed in the bar area for a, you know, for a cocktail or something and then, erm, so we were out for a little longer than any of, any of the other nights. And on the, but the way it’s written there it says that I checked the McCANN’s apartment, but I think by this part of the week, certainly on my, from my, my own, when I went back I generally went into our apartment and then we’d just have a listen at the shutters on the others”.
00.50.33 1578 “So if I say or if we say there ‘I checked the McCANN’s apartment by listening at the shutters’?”
Reply “Yeah, yeah, from outside, yeah. And that would have been true for Matt’s as well.
22 Reply "I think in terms of number there, ‘a’ cocktail I think was, I don’t think was there, after all what has been said it was only the one (inaudible)… err just because this sounds specific for the Wednesday night err that’s, that was a kind of more generic thing.”
4064 "Yeah
Midnight
Kate
Goncalo says Madeleines bed shows no signs of being slept in
On that night they also checked on the children every half hour; however she thinks that 45 minutes had gone by from the time of the last check to when they arrived, as exceptionally they went to the Tapas’ bar. On this day she thinks that Gerry arrived at the apartment around 23:50 and she arrived 5 minutes later. She went to sleep in Madeleine’s room 15/20 minutes later. Before this she spent a few minutes in her bed next to Gerry.
JT
4078 “And you know you had said on the , I think it was the night,
yeah, you said that you had stayed later and had more to drink than the previous
nights?”
Reply “Umm”.
4078 “Do you remember sort of roughly how much you’d had?”
Reply “No, I mean, we weren’t, you know, I mean, we weren’t sort of like roaring drunk, it
wasn’t. Erm, but I think just because we’d been there longer we probably had, I
mean, I’d say I’d probably had four glasses of wine and then maybe the, I think at the
end, I can’t remember what sort of a liqueur at the end, so”.
4078 “That is not a lot in the course of the evening?”
Reply “No, I mean, over the, it wasn’t, it wasn’t loads, but, I mean, it was probably more
than other nights probably”.
ROB
On Wednesday was ill, we stayed out later than normal, after our meal we sat around and then moved into the bar area we stayed for around 45minutes to an hour, this was our only 'late night' of the holiday, I recall we had a cocktail. Checks were made as usual we would alternate completing the checks and this was done every half hour or so. I listened at (page 5) the MC CANN'S apartment and believe that this was around 23:00hours, on all occasions the children were ok. During the week I checked on some occasions and listened at others.
NOTE:
ROB consistently remembers that was missing
Matt
there was only one time that we ever went out for a drink after the meal, so normally the meal would finish around sort of ten and we’d tootle off back. And I was ill on one night, was ill on the Wednesday night and so the Wednesday night was the only time that I stayed out any later than that. So it was, and we’d already (inaudible), so it was sort of like an hour and a half of time that we were away, maybe two hours”.
And you said the Wednesday you stayed later and you went for a drink after the meal at the Tapas?”
Reply “Yeah, we might have had one, erm, so about sort of half an hour or so later that we went back. But the reason, now we mention it, but I think that was on the Thursday, when we went to the table, I didn’t sit next to Gerry, because we had this conversation, he said, you know, he’d bored the pants off me yesterday when we were talking about his sports (inaudible)”.
4078 “Right”.
Reply “I don’t know why I brought that up, I don’t know, it seemed to be sort of part of my thought”.
Rachael
1578 “And do you recall what time he returned”?
Reply “No but it was quite late that night, it was later than any of the other nights”.
1578 “Why was that”?
Reply “Cos they’d gone to the bar after dinner and had a couple of drinks there, whereas you know, all the other nights we just got up from the table and went, went back to bed, so you know, it might have been about midnight or half midnight, as opposed to you know, probably about eleven I think when maybe they might have gone back to our rooms, back to the apartments
Fiona
Err you know Wednesday night we stayed a bit later that night err you know we, we had a drink in the bar after which was the only night that we, you know we did that, but apart from that there’s nothing else.”
Stayed at tapas until 1.00am
1.00am
Goncalo says Madeleines bed shows no signs of being slept in
Kate
From reading her previous statement, mainly lines 34-40 it can be understood that on the Wednesday night she slept in the couple’s bedroom, but that did not happen since she slept in Madeleine’s room.
NOTE: Did I miss that statement?
2.00am
Reply “Yeah, we might have had one, erm, so about sort of half an hour or so later that we went back. But the reason, now we mention it, but I think that was on the Thursday, when we went to the table, I didn’t sit next to Gerry, because we had this conversation, he said, you know, he’d bored the pants off me yesterday when we were talking about his sports (inaudible)”.
4078 “Right”.
Reply “I don’t know why I brought that up, I don’t know, it seemed to be sort of part of my thought”.
Rachael
1578 “And do you recall what time he returned”?
Reply “No but it was quite late that night, it was later than any of the other nights”.
1578 “Why was that”?
Reply “Cos they’d gone to the bar after dinner and had a couple of drinks there, whereas you know, all the other nights we just got up from the table and went, went back to bed, so you know, it might have been about midnight or half midnight, as opposed to you know, probably about eleven I think when maybe they might have gone back to our rooms, back to the apartments
Fiona
Err you know Wednesday night we stayed a bit later that night err you know we, we had a drink in the bar after which was the only night that we, you know we did that, but apart from that there’s nothing else.”
Stayed at tapas until 1.00am
1.00am
Goncalo says Madeleines bed shows no signs of being slept in
Kate
From reading her previous statement, mainly lines 34-40 it can be understood that on the Wednesday night she slept in the couple’s bedroom, but that did not happen since she slept in Madeleine’s room.
NOTE: Did I miss that statement?
2.00am
HiDeHo- Researcher
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Re: Wednesday May 2nd Hour by Hour
by HiDeHo 07.01.11 14:55
Title: Tapas Waiter Rota and Statements
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Gerry and ROB arrived together according to Jez Wilkins
Rachael did not go to tapas and did not hear any crying regardless of her apartment next door to 5A and the ability to hear through the walls. (ref. Madeleine's claim of crying and noone came)
Jane and Kate were not seen at the tapas (initially) by Jez Wilkins.
We don't know how many stayed late but Gerry and Kate claim to have been back at the apartment before midnight and Kate slept in the bed in Madeleine's room because of Gerrys snoring. (or so Gerry says).
The cot had been seen in their bedroom that morning (which they both denied) and Goncalo claims there was no indication of Madeleine's bed being used that night (where was Madeleine?)
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Jeronimo Tomas Rodrigues Salcedas
Generally, they left the Tapas at 23h30/midnight, at times together and at other times in small groups. On the night in which they drank more than usual, they left a bit later, perhaps towards 00h30-01h00. I remember this detail because I was supposed to finish work at 00H00 and I wanted to go home.
For the context of this night:RICARDO (Cebola?)
ALEXANDRE DA LUZ OLIVEIRA
It was also normal for certain members of the group to order dessert. After this, they would normally stay at the table until after 23H00 but would always leave before 00H00, the time when the bar closed. One or more of them, on another night, asked for an after-dinner drink. He remembers this clearly because they asked for Amareto and the bar did not stock it.
The witness served almond bitters to all. He remembers that this happened on Wednesday. He does not remember if they had more after-dinner drinks. He does remember that on Wednesday, certain elements of the group got up, with their after-dinner drinks, and headed to the bar and stayed there until about 00H00/00H10. This was the only night where the group elements were in the bar after closing. He also remembers that they would normally be the last clients to leave. Wednesday was the last night they were at the bar after dinner.
Gerry and ROB arrived together according to Jez Wilkins
Rachael did not go to tapas and did not hear any crying regardless of her apartment next door to 5A and the ability to hear through the walls. (ref. Madeleine's claim of crying and noone came)
Jane and Kate were not seen at the tapas (initially) by Jez Wilkins.
We don't know how many stayed late but Gerry and Kate claim to have been back at the apartment before midnight and Kate slept in the bed in Madeleine's room because of Gerrys snoring. (or so Gerry says).
The cot had been seen in their bedroom that morning (which they both denied) and Goncalo claims there was no indication of Madeleine's bed being used that night (where was Madeleine?)
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Re: Wednesday May 2nd Hour by Hour
by Angelique 07.01.11 16:08
HiDeHO
Thanks for your hard work - this is so much information I will have to re-read it over again. But this is what I wanted to do just to get the sequence of events for the days they stayed at the OC. Thank you for this.
Angelique
Thanks for your hard work - this is so much information I will have to re-read it over again. But this is what I wanted to do just to get the sequence of events for the days they stayed at the OC. Thank you for this.
Angelique
____________________
Things aren't always what they seem
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Re: Wednesday May 2nd Hour by Hour
by HiDeHo 07.01.11 17:57
I have similar tables and timelines for the other days of the holiday but so far, this is the only one I have 'completed' with every early statement and Rogatory statement of T9.
Most of the compilations are used for reference.
Its easy to find specific times and what their statements tell us they did at that time, enabling us to see the discrepancies between, not only their statements, but between different T9 members.
With 'summaries' I hope to make it easier for everyone to have an 'overview' of each day which I find invaluable as each discussion scrutinises different times and it helps the 'story' fit together, highlighting when there is a discrepancy.
It is because of these compilations that I believe something happened earlier in the week.
We 'know' very little of that holiday, but what we HAVE been told (usually for a reason) tells a story....
In my opinion of course.
Other days compilations, summaries and discrepancies can be seen here...
TUESDAY LIST
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THURSDAY LIST
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ALL TIMETABLES (most)
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THE HOLIDAY SCHEDULE
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Most of the compilations are used for reference.
Its easy to find specific times and what their statements tell us they did at that time, enabling us to see the discrepancies between, not only their statements, but between different T9 members.
With 'summaries' I hope to make it easier for everyone to have an 'overview' of each day which I find invaluable as each discussion scrutinises different times and it helps the 'story' fit together, highlighting when there is a discrepancy.
It is because of these compilations that I believe something happened earlier in the week.
We 'know' very little of that holiday, but what we HAVE been told (usually for a reason) tells a story....
In my opinion of course.
Other days compilations, summaries and discrepancies can be seen here...
TUESDAY LIST
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
THURSDAY LIST
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
ALL TIMETABLES (most)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
THE HOLIDAY SCHEDULE
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Re: Wednesday May 2nd Hour by Hour
by Guest 07.01.11 18:33
Thanks for putting all that together HideHo, a lot of hard work gone into that. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Guest- Guest
Re: Wednesday May 2nd Hour by Hour
by Autumn 07.01.11 21:18
Thanks HideHo, the way you have set this out makes it all so much easier to follow and very useful in identifying times where there are inconsistencies between the tapas group statements. 
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Re: Wednesday May 2nd Hour by Hour
by littlepixie 07.01.11 21:43
Yes, Thanks Hideho - this makes things so much easier to understand seeing it all laid out together.
How embarrassing for the Tapas lot to be remembered as being the clients that were always the last to leave the bar - and this lot had all taken little kids on holiday with them.
How embarrassing for the Tapas lot to be remembered as being the clients that were always the last to leave the bar - and this lot had all taken little kids on holiday with them.
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