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The Coronavirus Debate - Page 16 Mm11

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The Coronavirus Debate

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Post by AnneBarnard on 27.11.20 18:04

This whole debacle, from the 'virus' to the ridiculous and nonsensical lockdowns and ever-changing rules, to vaccinations being rushed through, to the insidious stories of requiring a vaccination to travel, or to go watch football...

... it's like watching a conspiracy theory playing out right in front of our eyes.  Except this time, it's not a loony conspiracy theory at all, but it is fast becoming reality.

I just hope the 'sheeple' wake up and realise what's going on before it is too late.  I fear I give the majority of the population too much credit, though.




Oh, and something my meandering mind pondered over last night - wouldn't it be funny if there was no vaccine at all, and what they were actually forcing people to have, in order to participate in society, was nothing more than saline or something equally mundane?

Sadly, it wouldn't surprise me at all.

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Post by Jill Havern on 27.11.20 18:28


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Post by Verdi on 27.11.20 20:48

Court decides that quarantine in state of alert is illegal

By TPN/Lusa, in News · 21-11-2020 14:00:00

The PCR test “is unable to determine, beyond reasonable doubt, that such positivity result corresponds, in fact, to the infection of a person by the SARS-CoV-2 virus”, said the Lisbon Court of Appeal.


The Lisbon Court of Appeal also considered that the quarantine period imposed by the Directorate-General for Health during the state of alert is illegal. The judgment states that the body of judges ruled that such a situation can only be taken in a state of emergency (currently in force).

The decision, taken on 11 November, which has as its object an appeal by the Regional Health Administration of the Azores, following a request for habeas corpus - immediate release - of four German citizens who had been forced by the health authority to comply with isolation for 14 days in the hotel room

According to the process: “There is no evidence that this diagnosis was actually carried out by a professional qualified under the Law and who had acted in accordance with good medical practices”. These acts are reserved for the exclusive competence of a doctor.

“The only element that appears in the proven facts is the performance of RT-PCR tests, one of which presented a positive result in relation to one of the applicants”, reads the document.

Additionally, “Any person or entity that gives an order that leads to deprivation of physical, ambulatory, freedom of others (whatever the nomenclature that this order assumes: confinement, isolation, quarantine, prophylactic protection, health surveillance, etc.), which do not fall under the legal qualifications, namely not provided for in article 27 of the CRP, you will be making an illegal detention, because ordered by an incompetent entity and motivated by a fact for which the law does not allow it”, it can be read. Noting that, at the date of the facts, we were in a state of alert, the state of emergency allows more exceptions to freedom rights.

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Post by Verdi on 27.11.20 20:52

Covid PCR test reliability doubtful – Portugal judges

in News · 27-11-2020 17:50:00

The PCR test “is unable to determine, beyond reasonable doubt, that a positive result corresponds, in fact, to the infection of a person by the SARS-CoV-2 virus”, said the Lisbon Court of Appeal.

While the court has deemed the test to be unreliable, medical experts have hit back against these claims, stating the judges have acted “irresponsibly” in their ruling.

The initial decision, which was made on 11 November, related to an appeal by the Regional Health Administration of the Azores, following a request for habeas corpus - immediate release - of four German citizens who had been forced by the health authority to comply with isolation for 14 days in the hotel room

According to the process: “There is no evidence that this diagnosis was actually carried out by a professional qualified under the Law and who had acted in accordance with good medical practices”. These acts are reserved for the exclusive competence of a doctor.

“The only element that appears in the proven facts is the performance of RT-PCR tests, one of which presented a positive result in relation to one of the applicants”, reads the document.

The judges quoted a paper published in The Lancet by Elena Surkova, Vladyslav Nikolayevskyy and Francis Drobniewski, which stated: “Any diagnostic test result should be interpreted in the context of the pretest probability of disease. For COVID 19, the pretest probability assessment includes symptoms, previous medical history of COVID-19 or presence of antibodies, any potential exposure to COVID-19, and likelihood of an alternative diagnosis. When low pretest probability exists, positive results should be interpreted with caution and a second specimen tested for confirmation.

The paper continues: “Prolonged viral RNA shedding, which is known to last for weeks after recovery, can be a potential reason for positive swab tests in those previously exposed to SARS-CoV-2. However, importantly, no data suggests that detection of low levels of viral RNA by RT-PCR equates with infectivity unless infectious virus particles have been confirmed with laboratory culture based methods.

“To summarise, false-positive COVID-19 swab test results might be increasingly likely in the current epidemiological climate in the UK, with substantial consequences at the personal, health system, and societal levels (panel).”

The judges concluded by stating that: “The problem is that this reliability is shown, in terms of scientific evidence (and in this field, the judge will have to rely on the knowledge of experts in the field), as being more than debatable.

“Thus, with so many scientific doubts, expressed by experts in the field, which are the ones that matter here, as to the reliability of such tests, ignoring the parameters of their performance and there being no diagnosis made by a doctor, in the sense of existence of infection and risk, it would never be possible for this court to determine that C ... had the SARS-CoV-2 virus, nor that A., B ... and D ... had high risk exposure,” concluded the judgement in relation to the case which has ultimately calls into question the reliability of the tests.

Meanwhile, the decision of the court has been damned by scientists in Portugal. According to a report in Públicio, the judges from the Lisbon Court of Appeal misread two scientific articles and the scientific consensus on PCR testing is “absolute”.

“The statement is false”, Vasco Barreto, a researcher at the Center for the Study of Chronic Diseases (Cedoc) of the Faculty of Medical Sciences of the Universidade Nova de Lisboa told Público, who added that he believed the judges acted “irresponsibly”.

“PCR tests have a specificity and sensitivity greater than 95%. That is, in the overwhelming majority of cases they detect the virus that causes covid-19 ”.

This is indicated in a scientific article that is cited in the judgment, but that has been read “completely wrong” by the magistrates, according to Germano de Sousa, former President of the Ordem dos Médicos and owner of a network of laboratories.

The other study cited in the judgement was Correlation Between 3790 Quantitative Polymerase Chain Reaction–Positives Samples and Positive Cell Cultures, Including 1941 Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 Isolates, whose results were published by Oxford Academic in late September.

PCR tests ("polymerase chain reaction") are the most widely used diagnostic method in most countries to detect the presence of SARS-CoV-2 precisely because they are the most accurate in identifying the virus. This is a technique that amplifies the virus's genetic material in successive cycles - with each cycle the material doubles. In the study cited, the relationship between the ability of the samples collected to infect cells and the number of cycles required to obtain a “positive” result was tested.

“The proportion of samples that were no longer able to infect cells maintained in culture in the laboratory increased with the increase in the number of cycles required to obtain a positive signal. This is because after our body controls the infection there are fragments of the virus's genetic material that persist and decrease over days, when the individual no longer poses a danger to others, ”explains Vasco Barreto. Conclusions like these have helped health authorities in different countries to reduce mandatory quarantine periods for those infected and to dispense with a negative test to “discharge” a patient.

Now, from reading the article, the judges conclude that “the probability of a person receiving a false positive is 97% or higher”. According to the investigation, this only happens if the cycle threshold is higher than 35 "as it happens in most laboratories in the USA and Europe", reads the judgment. This information is considered to be inaccurate by Vasco Barreto, who states that where he works at Cedoc “42% of the positive tests, only 25 or less cycles were needed and there is scientific evidence of the high capacity of the virus to spread from “positive” cases to less than 25 cycles”.

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Post by Verdi on 27.11.20 21:02

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Oh, and something my meandering mind pondered over last night - wouldn't it be funny if there was no vaccine at all, and what they were actually forcing people to have, in order to participate in society, was nothing more than saline or something equally mundane?

Sadly, it wouldn't surprise me at all.

I said much the same a while ago. Wouldn't it be a lark if an independent scientist did a bit of private research and found the vaccine to be a placebo or re-branded version on the existing flu vaccine.

Having said that, said scientist if it happened, would no doubt find themselves lifeless, propped up at the base of a tree in a remote woodland.

They can literally tells the people whatever they like - and do! They care not if the people believe what they are told. That simple fact is reflected in decades of deception by the hands of the ruling class.

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Post by JimbobJones on 28.11.20 9:09

Too true, its been this way for a long time, but had a very thin veneer of civility disguising it. I am hoping there will be more resistance now that things are becoming so beyond blatantly obvious even a five year old would notice to the general public. The LIES are so childish.
Now, the crux of the matter is the bogus test regime, the current situation is all based on mis-use of the pcr test. Nice to see some movement in legal matters regarding the illegality of lockdowns and quarantines as well. I thought it might take the Germans to notice things were not following the letter of the law.
You need to be brave to speak up and call out the deception if you are a professional, or in the public eye. Like you said Verdi, more to lose than just career. . . but plenty of people down the years have stood up and risked their very lives in the fight against oppression. That is where we find ourselves RIGHT NOW.
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Post by Jill Havern on 28.11.20 11:22


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Post by Verdi on 28.11.20 12:21

And then we have statistics ....

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I've been following reportage of a particular region, the numbers hover around the same over every 24 hours, give or take a score or two - for arguments sake, let me say 3,000 new cases reported every day with a ratio of deaths hovering around 1.6%.  That sounds like a a heck of a lot of deaths every 24 hours, at that rate the world population will be wiped out in the foreseeable future!

It's not peculiar to any specific region, it follows a pattern (not to say world governors are complicit)  which suggests to me the overall information collated is being controlled by a central 'brain' that dictates the formula.

But ....  

That 1.6% is calculated only on the number of infections reported, not the total population of the continent or country or region.  The percentage is facticious - it cannot be proven, it's pie in the sky creation to convey a very false impression of the severity of 'the virus' hoax.

Then ....

What is the true cause of these deaths - are people dying as a direct result of COVID-19, or because the patient was said to be infected with COVID-19 at the time of death?.  There is a huge difference between the two, as many people will now acknowledge.

What is COVID-19?  I know what we are told but that information comes only from the scientists under the global umbrella of the world health syndicate, it's wealthy benefactors and the media propagandists.

Meanwhile the health chiefs report today that the situation is under control, reported cases on the decline, thanks to world cooperation and due diligence by the people following the enforced advised precautionary measures - apparently!  Again, how can that be proven?  Perhaps the majority are immune, perhaps the tests are faulty - perhaps 'the virus' is nothing but a hoax!

But we mustn't get complaisant, now is the time to act - to be more aware of the threatened dangers of a highly contagious virus, so say they.

Remember .... mask - hand wash - distance and above all else, do what you're blooming well told - or else devi1 !

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Post by CaKeLoveR on 28.11.20 12:57

It's similar to a Milgram-ish experiment, in the technological age.
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Post by pauloalexandre on 28.11.20 13:26

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:What is the true cause of these deaths - are people dying as a direct result of COVID-19, or because the patient was said to be infected with COVID-19 at the time of death?.  There is a huge difference between the two, as many people will now acknowledge.
Or... are people dying because of other complications triggered by underlying health conditions, and their deaths are being attributed to COVID-19 simply because they found traces of the virus in their system?

So if I die and they find traces of calcium in my blood, does that mean milk consumption was the cause of death?

The RT-PCR test cannot detect infectious virus, it can only look for traces of the virus' genetic material, which can remain in your body for who knows how long, even after it dies out.

I heard that someone in the area that I live in had tested positive for COVID-19 after feeling chest pain. This man, in his thirties, tested positive and after his symptoms got worse, he had to be hospitalized. He later found out, through the doctors, that he had diabetes. His leg had to be amputated because of blood clotting and I think he also was in a coma.

Turns out those are the same complications that arise because of diabetes (if untreated), but no doubt if he had died, he would have been added to the COVID-19 death list.

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Post by Jill Havern on 28.11.20 14:18


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Post by Silentscope on 28.11.20 14:24

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:What is the true cause of these deaths - are people dying as a direct result of COVID-19, or because the patient was said to be infected with COVID-19 at the time of death?.  There is a huge difference between the two, as many people will now acknowledge.
The RT-PCR test cannot detect infectious virus, it can only look for traces of the virus' genetic material, which can remain in your body for who knows how long, even after it dies out.

Maybe this is exactly how they want to use these traces of destroyed virus in your system as the excuse they need to perpetuate the problem for as long as possible?
Someone needs to find out how long these traces last.
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Post by Verdi on 28.11.20 15:04

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Or... are people dying because of other complications triggered by underlying health conditions, and their deaths are being attributed to COVID-19 simply because they found traces of the virus in their system?

Precisely - but perhaps not the virus, more a virus!

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Post by Jill Havern on 28.11.20 15:25



84,537 views •Jun 21, 2013

Not my sort of music so here's the lyrics from 2013:

The Virus is harvesting
What do you mean H7N3?
Begin life in a lab in the first war of vaccines
Million die in the first week in the pandemic dreams
Reality, black death, smallpox, mutated disease
Flu-shot propaganda for all population and troops
Avoid the plague, it might have seeped into the room
It's now airborne with firestorm
Signal our doom
The dead returns with a pissed off zombie mood
The sprinkler system equipped with AuAg
Where they round up survivors? In a cold facility
Watch the process of terror from the hill near the stream
I remain in a gasmask
I still filter my water clean
This isn't past tense or the plague of Athens
Couldn't be eradicated like smallpox in action
Avian influenza in the jetstream is how it happens
2020 combined with CoronaVirus, bodies stacking

“The world is now at the start of the influenza pandemic”
“The State is rioting, using the street outside. It’s coming to your windows”
“Sequence the virus and determine its origin”
“It was a virus”
“Something in the blood”
“A virus which should be engineered at a genetic level to be helpful rather than harmful”

“This is sick like disease and can't be cured”
“Few that remain that became stained with the bloodshed”
“When the smoke screen fades”
“Death disease”
“You feel a burning sensation”
“Nothing remains”

You have to act fast
Grab your gas mask
Bad disaster has passed
Anarchy, cataclysm
Stand guard please
Blast your big guns
Havoc's begun
Viral outbreak
Tragic things done
Crowds renounce faith
Atrocious horror witnessed
Broke the hopes of optimistic
Scope is post-apocalyptic
Lone is harsh and vicious, gross and darker
Throwing darts blow apart the wicked
Foes know I'm sadistic
Cold, my aura is sick
Soldiers start resistance
Enemy troops in NBC suits
We shoot, then we regroup
Conquer weak with armed fleet
Bomb the streets with Dr. Creep

“The scientific criteria for an influenza pandemic have been met”
“You need a doctor to tell you that”
“This virus is human”
“Radio stopped broadcasting. There were reports of infection in Paris and New York”
“The army blockades were overrun”
“What scientists know about this newer strain…”
“Decided to raise the level of influenza pandemic alert”

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Post by Verdi on 28.11.20 15:38


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Post by Verdi on 28.11.20 15:42



27th November 2020

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Post by JimbobJones on 28.11.20 17:20

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So if I die and they find traces of calcium in my blood, does that mean milk consumption was the cause of death?


Indeed! . . . and every death in the third world is obviously caused by the flipflops they all wear on their feet. Ban these flipflops, they are obviously lethal! lol4

Seriously though, it is deliberate obsfuscation. To come to an erroneous conclusion while knowing it is untrue is nothing but evil.  I believe in "Live and let live" but these scheming insaniacs need to be judged by their own standards, how do they benefit us in any way? The undeniable truth is: They DON'T . . . Therefore, by their own standards, there is no longer any place for these people in our world.
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Post by AnneBarnard on 28.11.20 17:41

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Wow, that was excellent.  I didn't know of Neil Oliver's political leanings but he's now gone up in my estimation.  Everything he said was spot on.

clapping


I've never watched Sturgeon's daily briefings (I can't stand the woman) but I can absolutely imagine that there are people up here who sit in their homes each day, afraid to go out until they've listened to what she has to say.  As if they can't decide anything without help.  

People have given up freedoms far too easily over this covid, and it's worrying just how happily they have done it.

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Post by Jill Havern on 28.11.20 19:52

Fireman demonstrates why masks do not work

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in 3 parts so scroll down to see the rest.

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Post by Verdi on 29.11.20 0:18



Now .... get down on your knee and applaud!

Is this what you wanted - violent rebellion so you can shift the blame from your own inept failure to stand for the nation?

Your blind slavish compliance with the global anonymous dictate?

Where is the democracy you declare to be your priority and our human right?

Why are you throwing the populace to the dogs rather than fighting tooth and nail to preserve our sovereignty - our heritage, our Great Britain?

Sniveling spineless COWARDS!

Whilst you're at it - remove the stupid bits of rag from your face, it serves no purpose but a cosmetic fashion accessory.

How long do you think you can continue this act of terrorism before the world explodes?

Christmas might be cancelled as the past year of our precious lives but prepare yourselves for an alternative celebration.  This time on our terms!

You've played your part - now it's our turn and believe me, you ain't going to like it!  I think the populace out-numbers the combined forces of law and order.

We are human beings, not subservient fools destined to dance to your tune.

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Post by pauloalexandre on 29.11.20 0:44

Some media groups here in Portugal are asking for the government to investigate and inspect groups or behaviors which promote disinformation, and possibly punish those who spread it with a fine.

It's amazing how they regard the public as a bunch of children who can't think for themselves.

The same thing applies to videos or people being deplatformed, like the Plandemic video. Sure, that one is full of disinformation, but why not let it stay on Youtube instead and let people make their own judgements? It's not incinting violence or anything of the sort.

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Post by Verdi on 29.11.20 0:54

Strange isn't it, how public dissent is so glibly classified as disinformation to be squashed, whilst the authoritative voice is to be honoured without question?

Humbug!

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Post by Verdi on 29.11.20 1:03

Virus tiers could end in nine weeks, Boris Johnson says, to head off mass Tory rebellion

The Prime Minister has been forced to give Parliament a vote in climbdown that could see tier system end long before Easter

By Christopher Hope, Chief Political Correspondent 28 November 2020 • 8:15pm

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The Prime Minister said there would be 'an opportunity to review all tier allocations at the first review point on Dec 16

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Oh joy to the world, only another three months of misery and servitude before the dictate is lifted - providing you take the vaccine I presume, otherwise it's a lifetime of subservience and imprisonment for you!.

Judging by the state of his Prime Ministership - it's tough at the top.  Time for another escape to the country? Do I feel empathy for the situation he finds himself in? Nah - he's paid a lot of spondulix for the privilege.

When the going gets tough, Borister buggers off!

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The Coronavirus Debate - Page 16 Empty Re: The Coronavirus Debate

Post by Verdi on 29.11.20 1:20

Army spies to take on antivax militants

Sunday November 29 2020, 12.01am GMT, The Sunday Times

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Antivax campaigners include Piers Corbyn, brother of the former Labour leader

The army has mobilised an elite “information warfare” unit renowned for assisting operations against al-Qaeda and the Taliban to counter online propaganda against vaccines, as Britain prepares to deliver its first injections within days.

The defence cultural specialist unit was launched in Afghanistan in 2010 and belongs to the army’s 77th Brigade. The secretive unit has often worked side-by-side with psychological operations teams.

Leaked documents reveal that its soldiers are already monitoring cyberspace for Covid-19 content and analysing how British citizens are being targeted online. It is also gathering evidence of vaccine disinformation from hostile states, including Russia,

Next month the 77th Brigade will begin an “uplift” of professional and reserve soldiers to join operations. The brigade’s badge bears the same mythical creature used by the Chindits, an Indian army guerrilla warfare force known for its unconventional methods in the Second World War.

The scaling up of intelligence efforts comes after at least 155 people were arrested, including for assault on a police officer, during anti-lockdown protests in the West End of London yesterday. Many appeared to be influenced by anti-vax propaganda and refused to wear masks.

Ministers are alarmed at the impact that online propaganda is having on public opinion. A recent report found that more than one-third of people are uncertain or are very unlikely to be vaccinated.

Ministers believe Britain will become the first western country to approve a vaccine next week. A BioNTech and Pfizer treatment is set to receive approval within days, paving the way for injections as soon as December 7. Ministers will then launch a huge public campaign to encourage people to get a jab.

The campaign will be reinforced by counter-disinformation efforts led by the Cabinet Office, with support from the army and GCHQ.

Yesterday, conspiracy theories claiming that the pandemic was a cover for a plot by Bill Gates to implant trackable microchips into people, were readily available on Google and Twitter.

In separate developments:

● The UK secured a further 2m doses of the Moderna vaccine, which had a 94.5% trial success

● More than 50 hospital trusts in England have been designated “vaccine hubs”

● Sir Patrick Vallance, the government chief scientific adviser, is understood to have reassured No 10 officials that Oxford University and AstraZeneca’s cheaper vaccine is “still on track”.

Last night, retired army brigadier Ben Barry, of the International Institute for Strategic Studies think tank, said the army would probably become increasingly important in countering Covid-19 disinformation.

A core part of its work was analysing how messages flowed around the world, who was viewing messages, reacting and then spreading them to other people.

The Ministry of Defence said the defence cultural support unit capabilities were “not being directed at the UK population; 77th Brigade do not, and have never, conducted any kind of action against British citizens”.

Last night a Cabinet Office spokesman said: “As we edge closer to a vaccine we continue to work closely with social media companies and other organisations to anticipate and mitigate any emerging anti-vax narratives and promote authoritative sources of information.”

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Oh dear, the anonymous dictate appear to be getting a bit twitchy.

Price you pay for thinking the people are a mass of blithering mindless idiots who can't think for themselves.

bignono

Bye bye Mr Virus, bye bye.

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The Coronavirus Debate - Page 16 Empty Re: The Coronavirus Debate

Post by pauloalexandre on 29.11.20 1:21

I'll be honest, I did not like the Plandemic video (the first part, I haven't seen the second one).

All I saw was a purported doctor making a series of unsubstantiated claims about the current "virus" situation, vaccines and other related topics. Possibly the most nonsensical thing she said in this video was how the mask wearing causes people to be sick from their "own coronavirus expressions". What does that even mean?

Surgical masks are used regularly by healthcare workers to protect themselves from bacteria, viruses or body fluids, which is why we see them being used in surgeries, for example. They do not cause viruses to be "reactivated".

She also said that coronaviruses are in the flu vaccine. Where is the evidence for this?

Why are people buying into what she's saying, without at the very least, demanding evidence to support her claims?

Should I put my trust in her, simply because it goes against the official narrative? Or should I question everything, no matter the source?

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