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Making sense of the "Popular Vote"

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Making sense of the "Popular Vote"

Post by sallypelt on 15.11.16 11:58

There has been a lot of criticism about Donald Trump winning the election. He won under a system that has been in place for over 200 years. Now, many sore losers are now saying it’s time to change the system, so the person who gets the most votes, wins. Poppycock, I say. Show me a country where the national popular vote wins the day? I can’t think of a single country, but I am sure someone will tell me, if there is one.

 

If you look at the US map you will see that Trump won over 30 states. There are only 50 states in the whole of the USA. So, based on that, Trump won fair and square.

 

Take the UK’s voting system, where we have first past the post. This is not based on the POPULAR vote, but who wins the most constituency seats. This is not unlike the USA where there are states rather than constituencies.

 

Moreover, in the UK, theoretically, it is possible for a political party to win more popular votes than any other party, yet not get a SINGLE seat in Parliament. So let’s take a simplified method to prove this point. Let’s say, for argument sake, that each constituency has 300 voters in total, And let’s just use three hypothetical constituencies to demonstrate my point.

 

Constituency A results:

 

Conservative 151 votes

UKIP             130 votes

Labour           19 Votes

 

Constituency B

 

Labour 144 votes

UKIP   140 votes

Conservatives 16

 

Constituency C

 

Labour 139 votes

Ukip 138 votes

Conservatives 23 votes

 

Total popular votes for:

 Labour = 302 votes

Conservatives = 190 votes

UKIP = 408 votes

 

So, as you can see, UKIP has the most POPULAR votes, but doesn’t win a single seat. This result could, theoretically, be the same in every constituency, with UKIP taking a huge majority of the popular vote, but not gain a single seat.

 

So, those who are now saying that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote  and should be president,  and the Electoral College system should end, do not understand how electoral systems work.

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Re: Making sense of the "Popular Vote"

Post by JimbobJones on 15.11.16 14:05

I'm not sure she won  the "popular"  vote either.

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Re: Making sense of the "Popular Vote"

Post by BlueBag on 15.11.16 14:19

She certainly won most of the votes by dead people - especially Illinois.

Anyway, I keep saying, Trump won under the current rules.

A vote under popular vote rules would have produced a different vote.

There is no point voting in some states and many don't bother because of that.

There are only about 3 or 4 swing states that make any difference under the current rules.

He won under the rules.

If they want to change the rules then they should look at the way votes are counted as well to make sure it is impossible to rig.
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Re: Making sense of the "Popular Vote"

Post by plebgate on 15.11.16 15:36

Let them moan, let them moan, let them moan, let them moan,
They should get some wisdom before they start to froth and foam.


Had to laugh at the likes of Miley Sirus crying because Hillary didn't win.  Aww diddums.

Maybe a little twerking will help her get over the disappointment.  WHO CARES.

Carry on moaners but it wont get you anywhere.

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Re: Making sense of the "Popular Vote"

Post by Verdi on 15.11.16 20:47

Trump: I could have won popular vote if I needed to

1 hour ago

Donald Trump says he could have won the popular vote against Hillary Clinton if he had campaigned differently.

With one state left to count, Mrs Clinton has nearly a million more votes than him but lost last week's election due to the electoral college system.
Mr Trump said on Sunday this system was unfair and he preferred a simple vote.

But on Tuesday he insisted he would have still won a straight vote because he would have focused more on the big states won by Mrs Clinton.
"I would have campaigned in N.Y. Florida and California and won even bigger and more easily" the president-elect said on Twitter. He lost New York and California.

Read on..

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37992573

The simple vote seems to be the obvious answer to satisfy the majority of the electorate but I can't see how such a system can ever be successfully implemented.  In reality it is the party that is elected not the individual standing for premiership. locals in any constituency vote according to their local MP's election manifesto so it's inevitable there will be an imbalance in an election majority result.  If, by example in this instance, the popular vote was adopted in the US of A, Donald Trump or Hilary Clinton would win based on personal popularity - that is not the answer.  The contest is Republican v. Democrat - not Trump v. Clinton.

This is fast becoming a similar situation to Brexit - you get the democratic vote (?) - don't like the result so create a rumpus.

What is the point.

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Re: Making sense of the "Popular Vote"

Post by lj on 17.11.16 4:40

It is very doubtful hillary has the popular vote. The earlier numbers are all dwindeling to more votes for Trump, the latest showing he has more votes. All these numbers don't include the absentee ballots. Those are only counted if the difference in vote between the 2 candidates could be changed by the absentee voting. Most of these are military or diplomats oversees. These votes have for many elections been > 2/3 republican.  That would make Trump surely also the winner of the popular vote (not that that makes any difference).
Then there is that pesky problem of voter fraud. By now 3 million votes have been identified as illegal, coming from non citizens. The beneficiary of fraudulent votes has invariably been the democratic party. So that would make hillary's loss even worse. Investigations into double voting and dead people voting is ongoing. 
Interesting is that Virginia was won by hillary with 60,000 votes. That number is the same as the number of criminals that got pardoned so they could vote. That mass pardon came after a change in law to give criminals the right to vote was struck down.
There are a lot of other interesting statistics and maps. All show one thing though: the people want change.

I thing the Brexit win was very important for this election: after that much more people had the guts to come out and say they support Trump.

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Re: Making sense of the "Popular Vote"

Post by BlueBag on 17.11.16 8:49

Donald Trump gave this amazing speech.



This is why he was elected.
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Re;making sense of the populist vote?

Post by willowthewisp on 17.11.16 10:22

The American people have voted for Donald Trump as the next POTUS,they can only hope he his True to his Speeches he has given during the election process!

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