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The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007

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The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 03.08.15 14:28

The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007:

“I give this declaration in relation to the McCANN family who are currently in Portugal. The McCANN family is composed of Gerry McCANN, his wife, Kate McCANN and their three children, Madeleine, aged 4, and Sean and Amelie, who are twins and 3 years of age. As is abundantly clear, Madeleine is not with her family presently, and has been missing for the last two weeks.

“I will start by explaining that I am married to Arul Savio Gaspar and we have two daughters. I have been married to Savio for 11 years. We met when we were working together in Exeter about 14 years ago [1993]. I am a General Practitioner as was my husband. He continues to be a General Practitioner but is also a specialist.

“To explain how we know the McCann family, I would say that my husband knows Kate, as they both attended the University of Dundee between 1987 and 1992. At the time, Kate was known by the name of Kate Healey. I met Kate and Gerry on the occasion of their wedding around 1998 in Liverpool. Both Savio and I went to the wedding because Savio was an old friend of Kate; we were both invited to the event. From what I know, Savio did not know Gerry McCann before they married. From that time on, we met as friends, probably about three times a year and we would spend the weekend together.

“I would say we got to be close friends of Gerry and Kate. I remember that in 2002 or 2003, Savio and I spent a weekend with Gerry and Kate in Devon. We maintained contact with each other by ’phone. In 2002 or 2003 Savio and I were living in the Birmingham area and the McCanns were then in Leicester. In September 2005 Savio, me and ‘A’ [name of first child] (who was around one year and a half) holidayed in Majorca, with Kate, Gerry, Madeleine (who was about 2½ years old) and the twins, Sean and Amelie, who were only a few months old. I was pregnant with ‘B’ [name of second child]. There were also other friends of Kate and Gerry with us there. There was a couple, Dave and Fiona (the Paynes, I think). I believe they were married and had a daughter around one year old called Lily. I remember Fiona was pregnant on that holiday.

“There was another couple on the vacation: C_____ and D_____, whose surname I can’t remember. They had two boys (three years and one year old respectively) whose names I don’t remember. I did not know either of these two families before this holiday. I think it was Dave Payne who organised the trip and we stayed in a big house in Majorca. We were there for one week whilst the McCanns and the Paynes stayed for two weeks. I believe C_____ and D_____ and their two sons also stayed for one week.

“It was fun during the first two or three days. Probably around the fourth or fifth day there was an incident that stuck in my mind. I say this because I have thought about the particular incident I am about to describe many times since then.

“One night, when all the adults, that is, from those couples I have mentioned above, were all sitting around on a patio outside the house where we were all staying. We had been eating and drinking ‘Berbers’.
I was sitting between Gerry and Dave and I think both were talking about Madeleine. I can’t remember the conversation in its entirety, but they seemed to be discussing a particular scenario. I remember Dave saying to Gerry something about ‘she’, meaning Madeleine, ‘would do this’.

“While he mentioned the word ‘this’, Dave was doing the action of sucking one of his fingers, pushing it in and out of his mouth, while with his other hand he was doing a circle around his nipple, with a circular movement around his clothes. This was done in a provocative way. There seemed to be an explicit insinuation about what he was saying and doing. I remember being shocked by that. I always felt it was something very weird and that it was not something anyone should say or do. I looked at Gerry, and also at Dave, to gauge their reactions.

“I looked around as if saying: “Did someone else hear that, or was it just me?”. The conversations stopped for a moment, then we all began conversing again. Moreover, I remember Dave doing the same thing on another occasion. In saying this, I want to mention once again that it was during a conversation in which he was talking about an imaginary scenario, although I’m not sure. He again stuck one of his fingers in and out of his mouth and with the other hand he once again drew a circle around his nipple in a provocative and sexual way. I think he was referring to the way she, that is, his daughter Lily, would behave or what she would do. I think he did this later during this same holiday, but I’m not sure.

“The only time since then that I have been in the company of Dave and Fiona was several weeks after the holidays, when Savio and I met Gerry, Kate, Dave and Fiona in a restaurant in Leicester. I’m sure that he said what he said and made the gestures I have related, but [the second time] it could have happened in the restaurant in Leicester, although I do think it was in Majorca that I heard Dave say and do this for the second time. After the second occasion [when he made these gestures] I took it more seriously.

“I remember thinking whether he would look at my daughter and other little girls in a different way than I or others do. I imagined that he had perhaps visited internet sites related to little children. In a word, I thought that he could be interested in child pornography on the web. During our holiday in Majorca, each parent would bath the children in turn. I was keen to stay near the bathroom if Dave was bathing the children. I remember I said to Savio to be careful and to be close by if Dave was helping to bathe the children and my daughter in particular. I did this [stay hear the bathroom if Dave was bathing the children] quite obviously because hearing what he said had troubled me and I didn’t trust him bathing ‘A’ [our first child].

“When I heard Dave say this for the second time, it reinforced what I had already been thinking concerning his thoughts about little girls. During our stay in Majorca, Dave and his wife Fiona and their daughter Lily used to take Madeleine with them for the day in order that Kate and Gerry could rest a bit and had time just for the twins. I wasn’t worried about Madeleine’s safety, because Fiona and [another female adult] were there, as well as Dave. As already referred to, I was only with Dave and Fiona on one occasion, after [we were on holiday together in] Majorca. And I have not spoken to them at all since that time. In recent, we have seen the McCann family on occasions. These occasions coincide with the children’s birthdays – a time when we all get together.

“The first time I heard the terrible news regarding the disappearance of Madeleine McCann on the radio, my thoughts raced immediately to Dave. I asked Savio if Dave was also on holiday with the McCanns in Portugal, but he didn’t know. I watched TV to catch the coverage of the news and eventually discovered that Dave was there with the McCanns.

“Then I saw him on TV a few days after Madeleine disappeared. I therefore believed that he was on holiday with the McCanns in Portugal. Today, Wednesday 16 May, 2007, at 3.40pm, I have given Detective Constable Brewer a page containing 2 photographic images. I am going to reference these images as: Ref KZG/1). I consent that these may be exhibited as required [by the police]. All these photographs were taken during our holidays in Majorca. In the photographs, Dave is wearing a white T-shirt and the woman in the photograph is his wife Fiona. The man that is holding the cup of wine in the photograph is _____”.

That statement of Dr Katherine Gaspar alone is very concerning. I now turn to a statement made by Dr Katherine Gaspar’s husband, Dr Arul Savio Gaspar, also made on the same day:

“I make this statement in relation to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. I currently work as a General Practitioner at St Clements Surgery, Birmingham, where I have been employed for the last nine years. Madeleine is the daughter of Kate and Gerry McCann and we are friends of the family. I have known Kate since 1987, when we met at Dundee Medical School, and became friends. We have remained in touch all this time and meet up three or four times a year. We often talk on the ’phone or email each other. When we first became friends in 1987, she was still known as Kate Healy; this remained so until she married Gerry at the end of 1990s.

“Kate and I completed our medical degrees in 1992, when we each carried on with our lives, once we had begun our careers. After I finished my degree, I began my career in Exeter, and I think Kate went to Glasgow. I only met up with Kate again in 1997 or 1998. At that moment I was married to Katherine. We had both been invited to attend Kate and Gerry’s wedding.

“After their wedding we lost contact and I think they went to New Zealand. We only met up again in 2001 in Birmingham. The couple visited us in the house where we then living, in ______, and this was the first time I had ever talked to Gerry. I think that at that time Kate and Gerry were living in Queniborough, Leicestershire. From 2001 until 2005, we were in regular contact with each other and often visited each other’s homes.

“We planned a holiday together for the first week of September 2005 in Majorca, together with three other couples including Kate and Gerry. We did not know the other two couples; they were both friends of Kate and Gerry’s. We had never met them before. All of us had children. When we went on this holiday we had one daughter, ‘A’, aged 18 months. Kate and Gerry had three children, Madeleine – almost two – and the twins, who were six months old [NOTE: Madeleine was 2¼ in September 2005].

The other couples were Fiona and David Payne and their daughter Lily who was one year old and ______ and ______ who had two boys aged three and one. I do not remember the surname of ______ and ______ nor the names of their children. Katherine and I had booked the holiday for one week and the McCanns and the other two couples had booked for two weeks. We stayed together in a large villa. We all arrived at the villa separately.

“During the period we stayed at the villa I remember a gesture made by David Payne. I do not remember the context of the conversation between David and Gerry, but I do remember seeing David use his left index finger to rub his nipple, using circular movements, whilst he put his right index finger into his mouth, touching his tongue. This happened during a meal, at the end of the day, in the villa. I do not remember the time or the date, but we would usually dine between 7.30pm and 9.00pm every day. I think this happened in the middle of the holiday.

“I remember that when I saw this gesture, I immediately thought it to be in very bad taste, independently of the context of the conversation they were having. We were sitting around a white plastic table in the villa. I don’t know if anyone else saw the gesture, apart from my wife Katherine. After this gesture, we did not notice any others and as far as I know, the gesture was not repeated. We never commented on this gesture during the rest of the holiday and I thought no more about it.

“I can describe Dave as a Caucasian male 5’ 10” tall, and of a medium complexion. He had brown hair and used glasses or contact lenses depending on the circumstances. I can say that Dave was a pleasant person. I do not remember him having any unusual characteristics.

During the holidays Dave never behaved in an inappropriate manner with Madeleine or with any of the other children. Dave was popular with the children and I took this to be because he was a close friend to the family.

“I never distrusted Dave. After the holidays there was one occasion when we were with Kate and Gerry and Fiona and Dave were also present. That was in a restaurant in Leicester in 2005. I do not remember the name of the restaurant. We had a pleasant evening, just the three couples without the children. I do not remember Dave having behaved inappropriately on this occasion. We have not spoken to Dave or Fiona since December 2005, only due to their being friends of Kate and Gerry [rather than ourselves], not for any other reason. The last time I saw Kate, Gerry, Madeleine, Sean and Amelie was in March 2007 when they came to our house for the first birthday celebration of my daughter ‘B’.

“On the morning of 4th May [2007], Katherine saw the news about Madeleine on television. We were very shocked and worried given that they were close friends. It was during the days following the news of the abduction that we discovered that Fiona and David Payne were also with them in Portugal. It was at this moment that Katherine showed concern at the gesture made by Dave in Majorca in 2005. Katherine remembered that when Dave made the gesture, he was referring to Madeleine.

I only remember that Katherine saw the gesture at the time; I had forgotten the episode, it was never the subject of conversation. At the time I did not feel the gesture was referring to Madeleine.
It is my wish that the police are aware of my preoccupation with the gesture made by David Payne”.

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Bathing other peoples children

Post by JohnyT on 03.08.15 16:22

................why don't the parents only bathe their own children? I've always found this very odd but even stranger that the woman who made the above statement allowed this to happen.
         Is this a doctor thing or am I mixing with the wrong people??
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Re: The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007

Post by joyce1938 on 03.08.15 16:28

Could this be some important evidence that might be withheld  incase it could be a wreck to a court case ,if ever . A couple both ready to repeat what they saw it seems to me ,but at right time if it ever arrives . just a thought . joyce1938
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Re: The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007

Post by Dr What on 03.08.15 17:30

The handling of the various child sex allegations that are swirling around at the moment is, to me, quite different.

On the one hand, we have allegations against MPs ,now a former PM, and various 'celebs', some of whom have been imprisoned.The response of the Police in these cases at the moment, is to publicly request anyone with any information to contact them so that they can be investigated, albeit belatedly.

The Gaspar statement regarding Payne is also an allegation.She was concerned and that was why she volunteered her statement.The Police response to this has been.....what? No request for the public to contact them if they have any information regarding Payne.The Gaspar statement is in the public domain.It is not secret.So why no police investigation that requests the public's help?

If it is to do with the ridiculous ' Not in the public interest' to proceed with any investigation, then I would have thought that the cases against PM and MPs would have been buried.But no, they are in the full glare of publicity.

Surely it can't be due to the threat of legal action from a bunch of lawyers who are representing Payne, since no-one is above the law...right?

If it has already been investigated and proved to be an unreliable statement, then surely Payne deserves some sort of police statement that he is a person of no interest in the McCann investigation.But that has not happened either.He is a GP who has continued access to children.

The Gaspar statement has been allowed to hang there and there has been no formal indication that it has been dealt with.Utter silence.

Very different to the current spate of allegations involving child abuse.

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Re: The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007

Post by Nina on 03.08.15 19:29

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:The handling of the various child sex allegations that are swirling around at the moment is, to me, quite different.

On the one hand, we have allegations against MPs ,now a former PM, and various 'celebs', some of whom have been imprisoned.The response of the Police in these cases at the moment, is to publicly request anyone with any information to contact them so that they can be investigated, albeit belatedly.

The Gaspar statement regarding Payne is also an allegation.She was concerned and that was why she volunteered her statement.The Police response to this has been.....what? No request for the public to contact them if they have any information regarding Payne.The Gaspar statement is in the public domain.It is not secret.So why no police investigation that requests the public's help?

If it is to do with the ridiculous ' Not in the public interest' to proceed with any investigation, then I would have thought that the cases against PM and MPs would have been buried.But no, they are in the full glare of publicity.

Surely it can't be due to the threat of legal action from a bunch of lawyers who are representing Payne, since no-one is above the law...right?

If it has already been investigated and proved to be an unreliable statement, then surely Payne deserves some sort of police statement that he is a person of no interest in the McCann investigation.But that has not happened either.He is a GP who has continued access to children.

The Gaspar statement has been allowed to hang there and there has been no formal indication that it has been dealt with.Utter silence.

Very different to the current spate of allegations involving child abuse.
Dr What, David Payne is no longer a mere doctor he is a Mr.
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Re: The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007

Post by Mo on 03.08.15 19:50

Yes Mr David Payne is registered with the GMC as a specialist and is no longer registered as a GP.  I am sure if there had been anything untoward the GMC would have known about it.

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Re: The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007

Post by Nina on 03.08.15 19:57

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Yes Mr David Payne is registered with the GMC as a specialist and is no longer registered as a GP.  I am sure if there had been anything untoward the GMC would have known about it.
I don't think he was ever a GP, Kate was but she is no longer on the register.

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Re: The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007

Post by Dr What on 04.08.15 2:07

Mo

You have more faith in the beloved GMC than I have.

So Payne is not a GP.Let's not let a title or other stand in the way though.Whatever the esteemed Payne is or isn't, he still has access to patients and presumably children.If the Gaspar statements are unreliable, and have been investigated, then Payne should be publicly cleared of any smears against him.That is what happens.An allegation is investigated and a decision reached.These Gaspar statements are in the public domain,discussed on the various for fora.
Wouldn't you want a  statement which exonerates you to be made public if that was you.One cannot pretend the Gaspar statements were not made.They exist for all to read.They hang there.

The Police have a responsibility to everyone to either dismiss these statements or to respond to them.My original point was that they seem to be treated rather differently from all these recent allegations of child abuse.They have not been mentioned at all.

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Re: The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007

Post by skyrocket on 04.08.15 9:56

@ Dr What

I agree, such serious allegations need clarification, for the benefit of all parties including David Payne.

I completely believe Dr Katherina Gaspar's statement - I have no doubt she has recounted exactly what she saw, heard and felt at the time/s.

Red flags should be flying high.

We have to trust Gaspar's judgement - having been in a similar situation myself I can say that beyond the words and actions is a very strong gut response of something not being right. She new something was wrong the first time it happened but the second time confirmed it.

I'm not saying that David Payne went beyond inappropriate gestures and language, and neither is Dr Gaspar, but his behaviour shouldn't be ignored - it is hallmark.

Consider:

1. Where did the 'habit' of bathing other people's children come from? Not normal as far as I'm aware, particularly for fathers - these people are not related and several have not even met before. I would have thought most fathers would feel very uncomfortable performing this task with other people's children.

2. Why would David Payne (and GM for that matter) feel it was appropriate to be discussing sexual activities with females (let's take out the age/relationship of the subject for now) in mixed company of casual aquaintances? He and GM were not on a lads night out. The discussion wasn't discreet, it was across Katherina Gaspar who was sitting between them and the rest of the party appeared to overhear. Had the subject been an adult the comments and actions would still have been cringe worthy. It says a lot about both men - the one that actioned it and the one who failed to shut him up and apologise to Dr Gaspar. Bad enough. Now put the named subject back in - serious stuff. And, keep in mind that this was an interaction with a second adult (GM), the father of the subject.

3. The scenario was repeated, Dr Gaspar thinks this time with Payne's child as the subject.

It's easy to assume that inappropriate behaviour towards children is always clandestine. Not so. I've witnessed blatant arrogance in this respect.

Dr Gaspar's account echoed my experience - shock; initial disbelief (surely not); looking around for confirmation that others saw what she saw; awkwardness and the feeling of being unable to confront the situation directly there and then, or at all; then certainty, and ultimately action. Her actions were received in the same casual way as were mine.

I've mentioned my experince purely to highlight that these things do happen, even with professional; well-liked (by adults and children alike), charismatic individuals. The person I witnessed was/is a paedophile and is currently serving a long sentence. It took 7 years of repeated warnings to authorities; social services; the police, before he was eventually arrested and convicted.

I hasten to add that I am not suggesting that what Dr Gaspar witnessed was any more than an inappropriate conversation involving 2 men, but it should be investigated thoroughly.
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Re: The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007

Post by joyce1938 on 04.08.15 11:27

The Gasper statement never was delivered until mr Amaral was moved to Faro and off the maddie case ,if my memory serves me right ,very clever move by someone.joyce1938
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Re: The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007

Post by Guest on 04.08.15 14:33

[quote="Dr What"]Mo

You have more faith in the beloved GMC than I have.

So Payne is not a GP.Let's not let a title or other stand in the way though.Whatever the esteemed Payne is or isn't, he still has access to patients and presumably children.If the Gaspar statements are unreliable, and have been investigated, then Payne should be publicly cleared of any smears against him.That is what happens.An allegation is investigated and a decision reached.These Gaspar statements are in the public domain,discussed on the various for fora.
Wouldn't you want a  statement which exonerates you to be made public if that was you.One cannot pretend the Gaspar statements were not made.They exist for all to read.They hang there.

The Police have a responsibility to everyone to either dismiss these statements or to respond to them.My original point was that they seem to be treated rather differently from all these recent allegations of child abuse.They have not been mentioned at all.[/quote]


==========

Let's do an Edward Heath on the good doctor Payne then?
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Re: The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007

Post by Mo on 04.08.15 15:12

As none of us really know what paperwork is missing from the files, we can only go by the information available.


Taken from Mccanfiles:


Also on this page are the statements of Yvone Martin who expressed concerns about David Payne and the behaviour of the McCanns. It is understood these statements were followed up by Gonçalo Amaral, who notes in his book, 'The Truth of the Lie', that Leicestershire Police reported: "There is nothing incriminating in his past and, as we were able to verify, he has no criminal record."

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Re: The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007

Post by Dr What on 04.08.15 18:35

Mo

Once again you show far more faith in yet another UK organisation...this time Leicestershire Police.....than I have.

The delay in sending to Portugal the Gaspar statements stinks of either incompetence or a deliberate act.

As far as criminal records are concerned, it requires the Police to take action against wrongdoers for wrongdoers to have a criminal record.I don't believe Cyril Smith nor Savile had criminal records against their names.It would appear the Police were told to back off from taking any action.That is exactly what the police did in those cases.They backed off.No investigation.No criminal record.

With all these latest child abuse investigations going on now, it is highlighting the utter inaction of various Police forces in the UK at the time.By any standard, it is proving to be a national disgrace.

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Re: The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007

Post by Mo on 04.08.15 18:57

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Mo

Once again you show far more faith in yet another UK organisation...this time Leicestershire Police.....than I have.

The delay in sending to Portugal the Gaspar statements stinks of either incompetence or a deliberate act.

As far as criminal records are concerned, it requires the Police to take action against wrongdoers for wrongdoers to have a criminal record.I don't believe Cyril Smith nor Savile had criminal records against their names.It would appear the Police were told to back off from taking any action.That is exactly what the police did in those cases.They backed off.No investigation.No criminal record.

With all these latest child abuse investigations going on now, it is highlighting the utter inaction of various Police forces in the UK at the time.By any standard, it is proving to be a national disgrace.

David Payne is not, or never has been a public figure so I think it rather pointless with the comparison.  We have no idea what checks were carried out or the time taken to do them by Leicester Police. Let's not forget also OG have been working on this case for the past 4 years - you're not going to tell me they haven't done their own checks.  I do have faith in OG/PJ to bring this case to a favourable conclusion.  As for David Payne/GM I would hazard a guess they were just being rude but not about Madeleine.  Put it this way, if you thought your children were being bathed by somebody you thought a pervert, would you let them - rather strange in itself.  

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Re: The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007

Post by whodunit on 04.08.15 19:28

I find the response of Mr. Dr. Gaspar curious in the extreme:

" After this gesture, we did not notice any others and as far as I know, the gesture was not repeated. We never commented on this gesture during the rest of the holiday and I thought no more about it." Later on: "I never distrusted Dave"

It's useful to recall that Mr. Gaspar was a long time college friend of Kate's while his wife met the McCann couple more recently through her husband.

Mrs. Dr. Gaspar was subjected to a conversation between two men that can only be described as obscene. Not once but twice. 1. Are we to believe Mrs. Gaspar never informed her husband of the second conversation? 2. Even if she did not inform her husband of the second occurrence of these obscenities being expressed in her presence why did Mr. Gaspar 'think no more about it' as if it were no big deal? Not only that but he continued to consider Payne, and indeed McCann by implication, as trustworthy.

In my opinion this was an 'audition' of sorts to see if Mrs. Dr. Gaspar was amenable to allowing certain...activities. Placing her physically between these two men who then carried on an obscene conversation about pedophilia was an attempt at gauging her response. In a way, she failed imo as she still allowed her child out of her sight to be bathed by strange men. Her husband's presence may not have been an absolute deterrent to bad behavior in my opinion.

Bottom line, this is not proof of pedophile activity within the group but it comes darn close.
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Re: The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007

Post by sammyc on 04.08.15 19:44

If I heard this kind of conversation just the once in the circle of friends I had only just got to know then I would immediately tell my other half what I heard and have it out with the people who said it. Then I would say to my partner ' and you are ok with this kind of conversation'? and walk off.

BTW, the live twitter feed on here sees a tweet from 'Farhana@spacesheepy' which could do with sharing. I bet the Tapas 7 are regretting the moment they helped the duo out - their names are forever linked with Madeleine's disappearance.
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Re: The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007

Post by skyrocket on 05.08.15 23:04

I know this has been reproduced previously on here by Get'emGoncalo (and others) but I think it is highly relevant to this thread.

Chapter 9 - Truth of the Lie by Goncalo Amaral

MAJORCA, SEPTEMBER 2005

Madeleine McCann is two and a half years old and the twins just a few months when they go on holiday to Majorca with their parents. Three couples and their children go with them: David and Fiona Payne with their one-year-old daughter (Fiona is pregnant with their second child); S. and T., with their two children aged 1 and 3; finally S.G. and K.G., who have a one and a half year old daughter, E. (K.G., is also expecting a child). The trip was organised by David Payne. The latter rented a villa big enough to accommodate all of them.

S.G. got to know Madeleine's mother at university in Dundee, between 1987 and 1992. K.G. met Gerry McCann for the first time at his wedding to Kate in 1998. They become good friends, see each other regularly, spend weekends together and phone each other often.

After dinner on the third or fourth evening in Majorca, the friends are all settled on the patio. They are having a drink and chatting when K.G. witnesses a scene which flabbergasts her and makes her fear for the safety of her daughter and the other children. She is sitting between Gerry McCann and David Payne when she hears the latter ask if she - probably Madeleine - did "that": he then puts a finger in his mouth and begins sucking it while putting it in and out - the sexual connotation is obvious - while with the other hand, he traces small small circles around his nipple in an explicitly provocative way. While K.G., stupefied, regards Gerry and David, an uneasy silences settles around the table. Then they all start chatting again as if nothing happened. K.G. starts to distrust the way David Payne relates to the little ones. On another occasion, she sees David Payne making the same gestures while speaking about his own daughter. At this time, it's the fathers who give the children their baths, but K.G. no longer lets Payne near her daughter. After the holiday, K.G. will only meet the Paynes on one occasion, and she will not speak to them. Over the next two years, relations between K.G., S.G. and the McCanns becomes distanced; they will only see each other now at children's birthday parties.

This witness statement from the couple, S.G. and K.G., is taken by the English police on May 16th, thirteen days after Madeleine's disappearance. That information, very important for the progress of the investigation, was never sent to the Portuguese police. When the Portuguese investigators learn about similar events that allegedly took place during a holiday in Greece - without, however, obtaining reliable witness statements -, they tell the English police, who, even at this point, refrain from revealing what they know on the subject.





There is no need to spell it out but I will - in other words Amaral states that something similar to what Katherina Gaspar witnessed in Majorca appears to have been witnessed by someone else on the group holiday that the Paynes, the O'Briens and the Oldfields took together in Greece, prior to the Luz holiday. Good indicator of the true level of assistance the PJ were receiving from the UK - not only did the British police withhold the Gaspar statement, they did so even after they had learnt that Gaspar's concerns had been seemingly corroborated by a second independent source. Patterns of apparent inappropriate behaviour were ignored. Why?
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Re: The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007

Post by Dr What on 06.08.15 10:31

Why indeed were they 'ignored'.

The PJ required the help and co-operation of Police forces in the UK and received nothing.It is either incompetence or a deliberate act of withholding information.If the roles had been reversed, the British media would have had a field day. 

The more one looks at the actions or inactions of individuals in this case, the more one can only conclude that there are a lot of grubby persons who have their grubby little fingers involved in this whole affair.As yet, some remain faceless.

I am sure that many interested in this case believe that to be so.

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Re: The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007

Post by Verdi on 06.08.15 19:28

I've read in the past that Leicestershire constabulary are in possession of  a considerable amount of information appertaining to the investigation into MBMs disappearance, coordinated and dutifully filed - this can be confirmed by the McCanns attempts to gain access to all information held by same, without success if I might add.   The argument being that all the documentation retained by Stuart 'call me Stu' Prior and his team is entirely separate from the PJ files and would therefore not be included.

Somehow this reasoning doesn't ring true to me.  Surely if information collated by the UK authorities (and that includes the CEOP) is relevant to the case of MBMs disappearance (no matter what), it should have been forwarded to Portugal and hence included within the PJ files?

Can anyone out there clear this up for me - where is a copper when needed most!

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The statement of Gaspers

Post by willowthewisp on 07.08.15 11:26

Hi Verdi,
DCI Nichola Wall is rather busy right now but if you care to wait in line with CMMOM posters,NW and Sonia are about to reveal their findings of what happened to Madeleine McCann,ooops David Cameron has decided to issue a D notice come back in 100 yrs

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Re: The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007

Post by lj on 08.08.15 14:24

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I've read in the past that Leicestershire constabulary are in possession of  a considerable amount of information appertaining to the investigation into MBMs disappearance, coordinated and dutifully filed - this can be confirmed by the McCanns attempts to gain access to all information held by same, without success if I might add.   The argument being that all the documentation retained by Stuart 'call me Stu' Prior and his team is entirely separate from the PJ files and would therefore not be included.

Somehow this reasoning doesn't ring true to me.  Surely if information collated by the UK authorities (and that includes the CEOP) is relevant to the case of MBMs disappearance (no matter what), it should have been forwarded to Portugal and hence included within the PJ files?

Can anyone out there clear this up for me - where is a copper when needed most!


I think the clue is in "should have been"

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Re: The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007

Post by lj on 11.08.15 0:49

There is an awful lot of evidence pointing to David Payne. However if he is the doer, the McCanns must have been involved in his games, otherwise you would not keep silent.

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Re: The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007

Post by Doug D on 05.03.16 13:19

Hadn't spotted Hobs blog from a week ago, 'The Drs Gaspar statements':

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Re: The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007

Post by whodunit on 30.04.16 19:05

Just an observation but I find it an interesting coincidence that the husband Dr. Gaspar's statement reads as extremely reluctant to support his wife's allegations and in fact he tries his best to downplay them; yet he is the one with the connection to the couple having gone to university with Kate. What was it about HIM that made TM invite the Gaspar couple along on holidays and made DP feel so comfortable to speak in such a way in front of his wife?
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Re: The statement of Dr Katherine Zacharias Gaspar made to Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007

Post by BlueBag on 30.04.16 19:32

If adult male showed interest in bathing my children I would punch them and report them.

It's just so not right!
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