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Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by plebgate on 03.05.15 7:33


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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by PeterMac on 03.05.15 7:47

It might be worth collecting all Brunt's statements in one place - unless it has already been done
100% DNA
Kate to be arrested tomorrow
Blue bag


I guess that together they form a fairly convincing prosecution case.

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by plebgate on 03.05.15 7:51

Yes that's a good idea PeterM.

I would like to see the 80 paces comment on the scrolling banner.

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by plebgate on 03.05.15 8:31

Jenny apparently wants to know why there are doubters.

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t11242-maddie-libel-detective-ruined-retirement-retreat-seized-to-cover-mccann-payout#308697

Read this Jenny as well as the blue bag/80 paces Brunty's reports mentioned in the above posts.

I don't believe Jenny  needs to ask for volunteers as to why they question when there is so much info. in black and white.

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by aiyoyo on 03.05.15 8:43

PeterMac wrote:It might be worth collecting all Brunt's statements in one place - unless it has already been done
100% DNA
Kate to be arrested tomorrow
Blue bag


I guess that together they form a fairly convincing prosecution case.

Another ones -
Broken neck - fine mist spray of blood on wall behind sofa
Tracheostomy performed
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Richard D. Hall on 03.05.15 11:55

Just to clear up one point made about Kleeman being a freelance.  I would dispute this.  In my emails to her it became apparent that she does not edit the film.  When I gave her my conditions of taking part she had to ask the editors at the Guardian whether they could agree to my conditions.  As far as I could gather she is not making the film, she is merely collecting video interviews which will be handed to somebody else.  I asked her to provide me with programme proposal documentation which she is bound to have, also I asked to see her contract for this project and treatments etc.  They provided none of them.  People such as Kleeman are not really freelance journalists, they are puppets.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Richard D. Hall on 03.05.15 12:06

I can put my hand on my heart and state that I am freelance.  I make films, THEN I try to get them onto television or other platforms.  Not the other way around.  I do not talk with TV companies BEFORE I make them.  I have tried to get the Madeleine documentaries broadcast on television several times.  I tried again recently.  A number of my other programmes have also been knocked back.  Here is a reply I received from chief executive of a TV channel on 29th April.

Richard… you’ll have seen yesterday’s news re the MCann’s victory in the libel case they brought against the Portuguese detective.
 
I hadn’t yet got around to looking at the case for transmitting your revised/updated programme(s?) on this case…. But the court victory does of course put a new slant on things. ...
The McCanns are clearly so vindictive that they wouldn’t hesitate to react to a broadcast programme.. We just couldn’t take the chance, as we, as the broadcaster, would be the first in the frame if they chose to go after the broadcast.
 
I respect your wish to see it broadcast, and I felt that (in the first programme) you definitely raise some issues which need to be questioned.  There’s something very fishy about the McCanns.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Richard D. Hall on 03.05.15 12:10

So the TV company is saying it has not even watched the programme that it is refusing to broadcast.  It doesn't need to watch the programme, it is rejecting the film purely on the basis that the McCanns are "so vindictive".  So much for freedom of speech.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Verdi on 03.05.15 12:36

Richard D. Hall wrote:So the TV company is saying it has not even watched the programme that it is refusing to broadcast.  It doesn't need to watch the programme, it is rejecting the film purely on the basis that the McCanns are "so vindictive".  So much for freedom of speech.
Thanks that's very interesting, though not surprising.  Also confirms my comment up-thread about professional reputation, which appears to be far more important to MSM than truth!

Keep up the excellent work, don't let the bleeeep grind you down.

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by aiyoyo on 03.05.15 23:12

Richard D. Hall wrote:So the TV company is saying it has not even watched the programme that it is refusing to broadcast.  It doesn't need to watch the programme, it is rejecting the film purely on the basis that the McCanns are "so vindictive".  So much for freedom of speech.

It did watch the first programme, says so in the message.

It's pretty darn appalling that their mindfulness against C-R is done at the expense of freedom of speech.  At least there's a couple of nuggets of their view on the McCanns.
Maybe timing is not yet right.  
When OG is closed to futile result, and the dust has settled on the libel case, maybe that's the time.

I dread to think how bad JK's film is going to be.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by snook on 04.05.15 5:18

In the current climate no true version of the Mccann debacle will ever see the light of day. Richard has proved the point eloquently together with documented proof that MSM broadcasters would not touch a true version with a barge pole. Even if Kleeman were making the documentary completely independent of a backer she would nor be doing it for love of the subject. She wants paying and will not produce anything she can't sell to those who already provide her bread and butter.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Bishop Brennan on 04.05.15 5:55

I anticipate that the JK documentary will be a televised version of parts of the Summers and Swan book.  Its targets and approach are easy to predict as they are laid out in the S&S book:

1. To discredit, by association with a small number of crazed tweets, all supporters of Amaral and those who question the abduction theory. This process is well underway in the national UK media.

2. To barely mention, except to pour scorn upon, the dog's evidence - ridiculing it as the key to the case against the McCanns

It is likely that the documentary forms another part of the whitewash - a TV version was needed because the S&S book - 'the authorized and official version of the Maddie case'  - turned out to be such a commercial flop.  We can therefore anticipate a tone and content that fits with the ongoing whitewash narrative.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Sceptic on 04.05.15 7:57

 I'm sorry but I find it extremely hard to believe these are the words of a tv company chief executive unless he delegated it to the janitor to write the reply -

Here is a reply I received from chief executive of a TV channel on 29th April.

Richard… you’ll have seen yesterday’s news re the MCann’s victory in the libel case they brought against the Portuguese detective.
 
I hadn’t yet got around to looking at the case for transmitting your revised/updated programme(s?) on this case…. But the court victory does of course put a new slant on things. ...
The McCanns are clearly so vindictive that they wouldn’t hesitate to react to a broadcast programme.. We just couldn’t take the chance, as we, as the broadcaster, would be the first in the frame if they chose to go after the broadcast.
 
I respect your wish to see it broadcast, and I felt that (in the first programme) you definitely raise some issues which need to be questioned.  There’s something very fishy about the McCanns.[/quote]

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by notlongnow on 04.05.15 11:54

Bishop Brennan wrote:I anticipate that the JK documentary will be a televised version of parts of the Summers and Swan book.  Its targets and approach are easy to predict as they are laid out in the S&S book:

1. To discredit, by association with a small number of crazed tweets, all supporters of Amaral and those who question the abduction theory. This process is well underway in the national UK media.

2. To barely mention, except to pour scorn upon, the dog's evidence - ridiculing it as the key to the case against the McCanns

It is likely that the documentary forms another part of the whitewash - a TV version was needed because the S&S book - 'the authorized and official version of the Maddie case'  - turned out to be such a commercial flop.  We can therefore anticipate a tone and content that fits with the ongoing whitewash narrative.
Indeed,it all feels as if they are getting ready for the final act,no doubt with one last visit to PDL in the summer.
Sadly,the curtains will not  quite shut at the end of the play,it will keep simmering on for years.

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Verdi on 04.05.15 12:05

Sceptic wrote: I'm sorry but I find it extremely hard to believe these are the words of a tv company chief executive unless he delegated it to the janitor to write the reply -

Here is a reply I received from chief executive of a TV channel on 29th April.

Richard… you’ll have seen yesterday’s news re the MCann’s victory in the libel case they brought against the Portuguese detective.
 
I hadn’t yet got around to looking at the case for transmitting your revised/updated programme(s?) on this case…. But the court victory does of course put a new slant on things. ...
The McCanns are clearly so vindictive that they wouldn’t hesitate to react to a broadcast programme.. We just couldn’t take the chance, as we, as the broadcaster, would be the first in the frame if they chose to go after the broadcast.
 
I respect your wish to see it broadcast, and I felt that (in the first programme) you definitely raise some issues which need to be questioned.  There’s something very fishy about the McCanns.

Depends on what TV company?  Talking of Chief Execs, have you read any Jim Gamble tweets lately?

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Richard D. Hall on 04.05.15 12:55

Are you accusing me of lying?

The words were not written by any janitor, they were written by a chief exec.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by aquila on 04.05.15 13:33

Richard D. Hall wrote:Are you accusing me of lying?

The words were not written by any janitor, they were written by a chief exec.
I'm glad you responded Richard. I resisted the temptation to ask Sceptic if he was calling you a liar, which clearly is what he's doing.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by PeterMac on 04.05.15 14:25

Why does this forum so quickly descend to this level ?

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Mark Willis on 04.05.15 14:30

Verdi wrote:aiyoyo today @ 3:25 pm

I fully understand the meaning of freelance, as I know how it will differ from one profession/trade/job to another.  I would have thought where there is reputation at stake,  such as the press,  a working agreement (contract) would apply.  Still I've never worked in journalism so what do I know.

Thanks for putting me right although I can't really get my head around what you're saying.  I'm probably juggling between expectations from a normal freelance journalist and one that is encroaching on McCann spin territory.  The McCanns seem to be the exception to every rule.
When I was a journo I was freelance as well as working for several publishers regularly.
All you need to know is your remit is to articulate what the sub-editor's agenda/ostensible slant on someone, some thing requires. Getting carte-blanche to say whatever I wanted took me years to achieve, where my copy would be unexpurgated.
However, when the topic is political - that's a different story. No editor is going to allow anything appearing in their rags that in any way questions the Mcs heavily backed by Government narrative.
Look what happened to Dr Kelly and BBC.
So do not expect SP or JK to ever reflect the kind of position adopted here appearing on a TV set near you soon.
Jon Gaunt was booted off TalkSport for less.
It is a given, I know, but never volunteer anything to the Press.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Sceptic on 04.05.15 15:25

Richard D. Hall wrote:Are you accusing me of lying?

The words were not written by any janitor, they were written by a chief exec.

No not at all Richard and I do apologise if that is the way it came across that is the problem with this medium at times - the point I was trying to make was that to be a chief executive one would have to be of a certain educational professional standard, in my opinion rightly or wrongly I felt the terminology/comments i.e "fishy" etc would not be the words used by someone In such a position and felt the instruction to reply possibly had been passed down the management/staff structure yet signed in the chief executives name
Once again I apologise for any offence/misunderstanding I may have caused - keep up the excellent work

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by aiyoyo on 04.05.15 15:41

Mark Willis wrote:When I was a journo I was freelance as well as working for several publishers regularly.
All you need to know is your remit is to articulate what the sub-editor's agenda/ostensible slant on someone, some thing requires. Getting carte-blanche to say whatever I wanted took me years to achieve, where my copy would be unexpurgated.
However, when the topic is political - that's a different story. No editor is going to allow anything appearing in their rags that in any way questions the Mcs heavily backed by Government narrative.
Look what happened to Dr Kelly and BBC.
So do not expect SP or JK to ever reflect the kind of position adopted here appearing on a TV set near you soon.
Jon Gaunt was booted off TalkSport for less.
It is a given, I know, but never volunteer anything to the Press.

A true freelancer is different from a quasi freelancer working for several publishers regularly, and therefore at the very basic level having to observe in house remit required by sub-ed or editor.  Of the latter, you don't have a free hand until you proved with your works and earned their trust.  

Political topic is a completely different ball game. It is sensitive area; often there is an official line to toe and special sanction involving different levels.  We don't know if political influence has been used to lean on press/media freedom of speech/coverage where the mcs case is concerned.  What is indisputable however is that they got an unprecedented high level of helps from the government.

True Freelancer, as RH points out (that he is) produces own piece free of constraints by someone else's rule, then market the end product. If they manage to interest publishers/tv channels to print/broadcast their work, fine. If not, don't have to deal. This type of freelancer has total freedom of speech in their work, and needs not to compromise to someone's remit.

IIRC, he said he got the impression JK isn't freelance.
She may be quasi freelance, working regularly for the Guardian, obliging her to observe certain in-house requirement and remit. It goes with saying that that kind of quasi freelance with limited freedom also has limited freedom in any say on output of end product. Its the editor that decides end product.  

As for your last bit, I totally agree, never volunteer anything to the Press.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Mark Willis on 04.05.15 15:54

aiyoyo wrote:
Mark Willis wrote:When I was a journo I was freelance as well as working for several publishers regularly.
All you need to know is your remit is to articulate what the sub-editor's agenda/ostensible slant on someone, some thing requires. Getting carte-blanche to say whatever I wanted took me years to achieve, where my copy would be unexpurgated.
However, when the topic is political - that's a different story. No editor is going to allow anything appearing in their rags that in any way questions the Mcs heavily backed by Government narrative.
Look what happened to Dr Kelly and BBC.
So do not expect SP or JK to ever reflect the kind of position adopted here appearing on a TV set near you soon.
Jon Gaunt was booted off TalkSport for less.
It is a given, I know, but never volunteer anything to the Press.

A true freelancer is different from a quasi freelancer working for several publishers regularly, and therefore at the very basic level having to observe in house remit required by sub-ed or editor.  Of the latter, you don't have a free hand until you proved with your works and earned their trust.  

Political topic is a completely different ball game. It is sensitive area; often there is an official line to toe and special sanction involving different levels.  We don't know if political influence has been used to lean on press/media freedom of speech/coverage where the mcs case is concerned.  What is indisputable however is that they got an unprecedented high level of helps from the government.

True Freelancer, as RH points out (that he is) produces own piece free of constraints by someone else's rule, then market the end product. If they manage to interest publishers/tv channels to print/broadcast their work, fine. If not, don't have to deal. This type of freelancer has total freedom of speech in their work, and needs not to compromise to someone's remit.

IIRC, he said he got the impression JK isn't freelance.
She may be quasi freelance, working regularly for the Guardian, obliging her to observe certain in-house requirement and remit. It goes with saying that that kind of quasi freelance with limited freedom also has limited freedom in any say on output of end product. Its the editor that decides end product.  

As for your last bit, I totally agree, never volunteer anything to the Press.
The non-contentious articles I wrote ended up being accepted verbatim, I had earned that right after learning from my editor's redactions.
With something like the Mcs case you play to house rules or take a hike.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Verdi on 04.05.15 23:04

Mark Willis wrote:
Verdi wrote:aiyoyo today @ 3:25 pm

I fully understand the meaning of freelance, as I know how it will differ from one profession/trade/job to another.  I would have thought where there is reputation at stake,  such as the press,  a working agreement (contract) would apply.  Still I've never worked in journalism so what do I know.

Thanks for putting me right although I can't really get my head around what you're saying.  I'm probably juggling between expectations from a normal freelance journalist and one that is encroaching on McCann spin territory.  The McCanns seem to be the exception to every rule.
When I was a journo I was freelance as well as working for several publishers regularly.
All you need to know is your remit is to articulate what the sub-editor's agenda/ostensible slant on someone, some thing requires. Getting carte-blanche to say whatever I wanted took me years to achieve, where my copy would be unexpurgated.
However, when the topic is political - that's a different story. No editor is going to allow anything appearing in their rags that in any way questions the Mcs heavily backed by Government narrative.
Look what happened to Dr Kelly and BBC.
So do not expect SP or JK to ever reflect the kind of position adopted here appearing on a TV set near you soon.
Jon Gaunt was booted off TalkSport for less.
It is a given, I know, but never volunteer anything to the Press.
So it's much as I thought, although maybe I foolishly used the word 'contract' implying a document drawn up identifying specific requirements and a signature at the bottom.  Still, contract or agreement or arrangement or verbal agreement or verbal instruction or verbal request - call it what you like - at the end of the day a journalist is required to 'fit the bill' so to speak.  As you say, it took years to achieve autonomy, by that time the fat controller must have sufficient confidence in your integrity to allow you a free hand.

It is a rather farcical notion to swallow, that a sensitive issue such as the case of Madeleine McCann, would permit any old random errant journalist freedom to write whatever they feel, totally disregarding the journals general persuasion.

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by plebgate on 05.05.15 8:16

Two docus coming out and now a book by Chelsea Hoffman, just read that on twitter. 

Anyone know when this book is due out as Chelsea Hoffman says she dares them to sue her when it is published.

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by snook on 05.05.15 9:28

I see Hoffman as a silly little girl. Her style of writing is appalling. She also wrote a piece almost agreeing with The Sun.She justified this as having to stick to publisher guidelines to keep herjob!
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