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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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Post by espeland 11.08.14 21:48

espeland - hi, re thought 2.  Yesterday I was wondering whether you knew Richard Hall.

LOL. The Maddie Case Files asked almost exactly the same! And you'll get the same answer:

No. Nor am I involved in any way with Richplanet.

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Post by Cristobell 11.08.14 21:52

Richard Hall has done the courtesy of replying on my blog, if anyone is interested.

http://cristobell.blogspot.co.uk/


Richard D. Hall 11 August 2014 07:09

Hello,

Responding to your comments about the Smiths sighting. I am not claiming the Smith's fabricated the sighting, just questioning why they took so long to report it and that the timing of the reporting coincided with the police interest in Murat. Also the possibility that Malcolm Smith knew Murat. I fully take the points made that it seems unlikely for a whole family to fabricate such a claim in light of the seriousness of this claim. Like everyone other than the Smith's themselves we don't really know 100% what they witnessed. I would be willing to interview Mr Smith either by telephone or a televised interview and add this interview to my film if it is something he wishes to do.

Regarding Murat's possible involvement. I have read all the comments. I accept that it is possible that there was an attempt to frame him and he might have had zero involvement. There is an interesting police recorded phone call transcript of Robert Murat where he is questioning a police officer as to how much the Portuguese police can ascertain from his mobile phone pings to mobile phone masts. In that transcript Murat seems very worried that the police might be able to find his whereabouts on particular days. Again this might not necessarily mean he was involved.

Much of what is in the films is available online somewhere or other, but it would take months for somebody to discover all the points I have included in the films. Many of these points have been ignored by mainstream media. Hopefully if the film gets viewed widely enough online it might have the effect of bringing about a proper investigation and trial.
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Post by PeterMac 11.08.14 22:24

@espeland wrote:
@Truthandjustice wrote:I noticed on one of the videos that KM said ' it was about 9.05 on Gerry's watch' but I thought it had been claimed that none of the T9 had watches or phones on them that night? Did I mishear or is another lie exposed?

Clarrie made the claim. If you misheard it, so did I.
You did NOT Mis-hear.  Mitchell told this outrageous LIE, for reasons which are entirely unclear, but then unusually,for him, had to retract.

In fact one of Clarence Mitchell’s more notorious outright falsehoods was to the effect that none of the group had watches or mobile phones with them, and that therefore the exact times were not to be taken as wholly accurate.      [31]
Unfortunately for him he said this nearly a year after the Tapas7 group had drawn up two separate and detailed time lines on the night, and a third mutually agreed amalgamation of both, [32]  but also the statements of the Tapas 7, of Gerry McCann “When asked at what time he went to check on the children the night Madeleine disappeared, he recalls that this was around 21:04 according to his watch”,  [33],  and subsequently Kate McCann in her book  “by his watch”. [34] , all contradict his assertion.  
He backtracked six weeks later.    [35]    Quite why Mitchell invented, or was asked to tell this particular lie is difficult to understand.)

Refs
31 Mitchell said he was not surprised by the inconsistencies in the initial accounts. 'You had nine people in a bar without watches on, without mobile phones, and absolute panic set in when they realised what had happened.”
32 •
33 When asked at what time he went to check on the children the night Madeleine disappeared, he recalls that this was around 21:04 according to his watch.
34 “After ordering his food, Gerry left to so the first check just before 9.05 by his watch.”
35 "It was made out to be the biggest 'conspiracy' since the Diana 'conspiracy,'" says Mitchell. "Some of the group (of friends in the tapas restaurant) had their watches on that night, and others didn't.”


31 The Guardian 06 April 2008 
32 http://www.mccannfiles.com/id261.html#tap21
33 Arguido questioning of Gerald Patrick McCann, 7th of September 2007
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id192.html#sta3
34 “madeleine”, by Kate McCann, ibid. p.70
35 Yorkshire Post 29 May 2008 

If Mitchell says anything, look in the opposite direction. He is paid to LIE. It is his profession.
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Post by Truthandjustice 11.08.14 22:30

Thanks for the references Peter Mac.
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Post by espeland 11.08.14 22:33

Yes, thanks PeterMac

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Post by Dr What 11.08.14 22:34

Quite.

In an era when politicians are about as popular as a bout of diarrhoea, it is odd that the Conservative Party consider someone who is paid to tell lies a worthy person to represent them at the next election.

There again.........
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Post by Miraflores 11.08.14 22:36

I think it's perfectly possible that Smith senior and Murat knew each other, and could have been up to something that they didn't want the Portuguese Law delving too deeply into, but I don't think they are the key people in whatever happened to Madeleine. The key people IMO are still Kate & Gerry even if it's covering up after neglect and an accident and nothing more sinister.
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Post by XTC 11.08.14 23:28

@Miraflores wrote:I think it's perfectly possible that Smith senior and Murat knew each other, and could have been up to something that they didn't want the Portuguese Law delving too deeply into, but I don't think they are the key people in whatever happened to Madeleine. The key people IMO are still Kate & Gerry even if it's covering up after neglect and an accident and nothing more sinister.
Yes. It's a possibility that a lot of people were up to somethings which they didn't want the police to know about and that the vast vast
majority of the indiscretions were absolutely nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance.

Re  The 9.04 time.

The time of " 9.04 " looks to me like a time taken from a mobile phone not a watch.

No professional person would wander round a resort with an LED watch ( Black or Red ).

Unless he could read an analogue watch in the dark of a bedroom after a drink or two?

I'd struggle I reckon.

Very 1979/ 80's. those watches.

Old Hat.

Mr Mitchell really out to tear himself away from the internet blogs and get out more.
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Post by Spartacus 11.08.14 23:40

@Cristobell wrote:Richard Hall has done the courtesy of replying on my blog, if anyone is interested.

http://cristobell.blogspot.co.uk/
I think people are very interested  in and support your view cristobell but are wary of posting support for fear of being labelled a shrill,troll or pro mccann disruptor.A sad reflection on what could have been a brilliant forum.
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Post by XTC 11.08.14 23:46

@Spartacus wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:Richard Hall has done the courtesy of replying on my blog, if anyone is interested.

http://cristobell.blogspot.co.uk/
I think people are very interested  in and support your view cristobell but are wary of posting support for fear of being labelled a shrill,troll or pro mccann disruptor.A sad reflection on what could have been a brilliant forum.
Keep posting what you think as nobody or group of bodies has their hands on the ultimate truth.

We are all theorising unless the truth becomes known.

This is how forums can fall apart if posters are put off posting.
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Post by Angelique 12.08.14 0:03

@Dr What wrote:I have just finished watching all 4 videos.

I hope that the bloke does do more of them, as he hinted at, concentrating on those areas that he indicated.

I was reminded that it seems all the unbelievable that the Gaspar statements, whether they turn out to be crucial or not, were withheld from the PJ for so long! Someone had to have made that decision.It  just seems to stink that no-one has been fired or  sacked for that decision.It is at best incompetence of the highest order.At worst, it is a deliberate attempt to protect individuals.

Makes one wonder just how independent our Police Force is, if someone was merely obeying orders by withholding the statements for so long.

As regards the Gaspers statements I certainly agree with your comment. IMO it was done deliberately to sabotage the PJ investigation.

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Post by Truthandjustice 12.08.14 0:14

@Spartacus wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:Richard Hall has done the courtesy of replying on my blog, if anyone is interested.

http://cristobell.blogspot.co.uk/
I think people are very interested  in and support your view cristobell but are wary of posting support for fear of being labelled a shrill,troll or pro mccann disruptor.A sad reflection on what could have been a brilliant forum.
I am not sure that is the case. I don't perceive a majority view on all issues on the forum and still feel free to express myself. I think it might be healthier if on certain subjects where people are firmly entrenched at opposite poles they could agree to disagree and leave it at that. After all we are united in our wish for justice for M.
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Post by PeterMac 12.08.14 6:47

@XTC wrote:
Keep posting what you think as nobody or group of bodies has their hands on the ultimate truth.
Apart from the McCanns, of course !
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Post by Guest 12.08.14 8:28

@Spartacus wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:Richard Hall has done the courtesy of replying on my blog, if anyone is interested.

http://cristobell.blogspot.co.uk/
I think people are very interested  in and support your view cristobell but are wary of posting support for fear of being labelled a shrill,troll or pro mccann disruptor.A sad reflection on what could have been a brilliant forum.

I don't agree with your assertion, Spartacus, and it's against forum rules to call anyone a shrill or troll. 

Have you been a poster previously with a different name?
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Post by Guest 12.08.14 8:47

Watched the first and second again last night with a neighbour who knows very little about the case. There were 2 things in particular that made her jaw hit the floor, Clarence's political connections and DP's rogatory & Gasper Statement. It's a lot to take in, she found the repetition very helpful.
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Post by The Rooster 12.08.14 8:50

Cristobell, thanks for the link. You are a first class poster and I strongly incline toward your views. When viewing these new videos it's impossible to believe that the police are not hot on the toes of the McCanns. It's quiet on the McCann front at present, I wonder why?

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Post by Guest 12.08.14 10:16

Nobody should be afraid to express their opinion here though I must admit that even I am at times.

Spartacus, I understand where you're coming from - I assert though that the forum is still brilliant though!

In my view the McCanns won't comment on these videos to avoid drawing attention to them; as they haven't been produced by a mainstream company, they can be dismissed (very unfairly) as being the work of barmy conspiracy theorists.
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Post by Google.Gaspar.Statements 12.08.14 10:32

@Spartacus wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:Richard Hall has done the courtesy of replying on my blog, if anyone is interested.

http://cristobell.blogspot.co.uk/
I think people are very interested  in and support your view cristobell but are wary of posting support for fear of being labelled a shrill,troll or pro mccann disruptor.A sad reflection on what could have been a brilliant forum.

Why did you join here then? I mean, seriously, you've only been here a month and made 3 posts, one of which is to tell us this could have been a brilliant forum.




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Post by macdonut 12.08.14 10:36

I watched all four parts with my wife on Sunday night.  She was gripped by the whole thing.  I've always had fairly strong opinions about who is responsible for Madeleine's disappearance but my wife has always been more sympathetic towards the McCanns.  That certainly changed on Sunday by 30 minutes into Part 1.  She insisted on watching all 4 episodes even though my own attention started to wane in Part 3.

Although not a big budget production and isn't going to be shown in it's current state on mainstream TV, clearly this documentary has the power to influence people in a way we've not had before.  I agree with NFWTD that TM will want to avoid giving credibility to this documentary by commenting on it, but if we can get it publicised and watched by enough people, they may not have any other option.
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Post by espeland 12.08.14 10:44

In my view the McCanns won't comment on these videos to avoid drawing attention to them; as they haven't been produced by a mainstream company, they can be dismissed (very unfairly) as being the work of barmy conspiracy theorists

Given that the first two discs are full of relatives' comments, newspaper articles and the PJ files, I think it impossible for them to be dismissed. The McCanns are guilty of at least fraud IMO and they should be prosecuted.  TM may not respond, but SY should.

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Post by sallypelt 12.08.14 10:54

@espeland wrote:
In my view the McCanns won't comment on these videos to avoid drawing attention to them; as they haven't been produced by a mainstream company, they can be dismissed (very unfairly) as being the work of barmy conspiracy theorists

Given that the first two discs are full of relatives' comments, newspaper articles and the PJ files, I think it impossible for them to be dismissed. The McCanns are guilty of at least fraud IMO and they should be prosecuted.  TM may not respond, but SY should.

I totally agree, espeland. The "pros" are in meltdown on Twitter over these videos, saying it's lies. I say, when it is coming out of the horse's mouth, there's no hiding place. So they can try their damnedest, but it's there for world to see.
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Post by IAmNotMerylStreep 12.08.14 10:57

@Spartacus wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:Richard Hall has done the courtesy of replying on my blog, if anyone is interested.

http://cristobell.blogspot.co.uk/
I think people are very interested  in and support your view cristobell but are wary of posting support for fear of being labelled a shrill,troll or pro mccann disruptor.A sad reflection on what could have been a brilliant forum.


This forum has been here since 2009 and many people have done a great deal of research which has been passed to SY and the PJ and within just one month you come along and say "this could have been a brilliant forum". What a terrible thing to say!
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Post by PeterMac 12.08.14 10:57

Everyone expects the perpetrator of a Crime to lie.
The entire Criminal legal system is based on this premise, with elaborate arrangements for Prosecution, presentation of evidence, recording of what the accused said and did when asked question, restrictions on the use of entrapment, (McCanns -v- Bennet being a notable exception, obviously) prohibition of torture and so on.
England Expects that each Criminal will LIE. (As Nelson didn’t quite say)

Indeed when a criminal tells the truth the whole system goes into meltdown.
Defence lawyers have to be allowed private and un-recorded access, and if the criminal persists there are special words and phases, always used in their entirety
“A FULL AND FRANK ADMISSION”
The criminal is asked to repeat the admission in court, in public on the record . . .
The legal system then swings in, and huge discounts are awarded in sentencing. This is enshrined in law.

What one does not expect is that the Victim will lie.
That is not usual.
Witnesses usually try to tell the truth, even though what they say many be mistaken, misinterpreted, or partial.
But the victim normally tells the truth, or what part of it they actually know.

But here, as clearly demonstrated, we have two people who present themselves as the Victims, lying
Right from the start.
And about the simplest things, point of entry, state of shutters, open and closed curtains,
They lied, repeatedly, not only to the Police, but to their own close family and friends.

Why ?
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Post by Guest 12.08.14 11:06

@PeterMac wrote:Everyone expects the perpetrator of a Crime to lie.
The entire Criminal legal system is based on this premise, with elaborate arrangements for Prosecution, presentation of evidence, recording of what the accused said and did when asked question, restrictions on the use of entrapment, (McCanns -v- Bennet being a notable exception, obviously)  prohibition of torture and so on.
England Expects that each Criminal will LIE.  (As Nelson didn’t quite say)

Indeed when a criminal tells the truth the whole system goes into meltdown.
Defence lawyers have to be allowed private and un-recorded access, and if the criminal persists there are special words and phases, always used in their entirety
“A FULL AND FRANK ADMISSION”
The criminal is asked to repeat the admission in court, in public on the record . . .
The legal system then swings in, and huge discounts are awarded in sentencing.  This is enshrined in law.

What one does not expect is that the Victim will lie.
That is not usual.
Witnesses usually try to tell the truth, even though what they say many be mistaken, misinterpreted, or partial.
But the victim normally tells the truth, or what part of it they actually know.

But here, as clearly demonstrated, we have two people who present themselves as the Victims, lying
Right from the start.
And about the simplest things, point of entry, state of shutters, open and closed curtains,
They lied, repeatedly, not only to the Police, but to their own close family and friends.

Why ?
Coz they're not victims?
Pretendy victims still acting the part of their real role.
Is that what you are saying PeterMac?
Nicely put.
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Post by espeland 12.08.14 13:00

but it's there for world to see

Well not quite ..... SY apparently don't see it. How it can take 28 detectives 3 years and £7million so far and NOT see it is beyond me. They have so many suspicious characters to work on. As has been said here before, we will probably never know what happened to Madeleine and neither will SY but that doesn't mean we'll all accept a 'case closed' as jusified.

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