Jane Tanner, "I carried her" and cadaver scent found on a THIRD member of the Tapas 9

Sorry to keep on about this person [Jane Tanner], have just read her statement and at 21-10 she said "Gerry left the tapas to check the children, she left 5 mins later and saw Gerry. this bit is from her statement: She passed them knowing that Gerald McCann had already been in the apartment (1) to check on his children.

 Now how did she know Gerry had checked the children - as Gerry was talking to Wilkins and neither of them saw her - or does she mean a previous check

You`re not `keeping on` tiny.  These things need to be gone over.  Didn`t Jez see her loitering outside the front of the apartments when he set out for his walk?

Yes, how did she know Gerry had already done his check?  I always thought it was because he left the table before her and she was assuming he`d been in to check and come out again.  But as you say, she didn`t know how long Gerry had been standing there talking to Jez at that moment in time - they could have been talking for 4 or 5 mins, in which case Gerry wouldn`t have gone into the apartment yet.

If the Smith sighting at around 10pm is ***** and Maddie, I think we can disregard the Tapas 9 timelines and the times written on the stickerbook.  Its probable they were all invented.

Is it possible she saw him walking from the apartments, and meeting up with Jez?

Which doesn't leave a great deal of time for him to gaze at Madeleine from the doorway? Actually, it probably does... minute and a half there, minute back to near entrance, less half a minute for JT to get to the entrance... max 3 mins in the apt... providing she left exactly 5 mins after GM.

tiny wrote:Sorry to keep on about this person [Jane Tanner], have just read her statement and at 21-10 she said "Gerry left the tapas to check the children, she left 5 mins later and saw Gerry. this bit is from her statement: She passed them knowing that Gerald McCann had already been in the apartment (1) to check on his children.

 Now how did she know Gerry had checked the children - as Gerry was talking to Wilkins and neither of them saw her - or does she mean a previous check

There's a couple of other things worth mentioning re Jane Tanner.

First, somewhere I seem to recall than in an interview she made what some regarded as a 'Freudian slip' when she was heard ro say 'I carried her...' (Madeleine) - can't find the reference just now.

Second, just who is the member of the Tapas 9 mentioned in this Daily Mail article from September 2007:

--------------------

Madeleine: Sniffer dogs 'found scent of death' on one of the McCanns' friends

Last updated at 09:29 26 September 2007


Friends of the McCanns faced fresh allegations yesterday after it was claimed that sniffer dogs had found the "scent of death" on one of them.

The same police dog which reacted to Mrs McCann's clothes - first causing suspicion to fall on her - was alleged to have smelled "death" on one of the friends who had dinner with the couple the night Madeleine vanished.

Police sources briefed a Portuguese newspaper that two police dogs from South Yorkshire, trained to detect corpses, human remains and microscopic traces of blood, had reacted to some items of clothing.

Family spokesman Clarence Mitchell denied categorically that any such procedure had happened.

The newspaper did not reveal which of the friends' clothing was meant to have triggered the reaction. Police in South Yorkshire refused to comment.

[PIC: Clockwise from top left, Fiona Payne, Jane Tanner, Russell O' Brien, Rachael Oldfield]

Detectives are writing to British police asking them to re-interview the seven friends the McCanns dined with on the night Madeleine vanished.

Madeleine's parents were dining in a tapas restaurant just yards from the apartment in the Mark Warner Resort in the Algarve, Portugal, when their daughter disappeared.

She had been sleeping inside the apartment with her brother and sister, twins Sean and Amelie.

According to reports from Portugal, all of those dining with the McCanns that night face further police questioning because their accounts of the night's events allegedly clashed.

Leicestershire police have consistently refused to comment on its role in the investigation and directed all questions to Portugal.

A spokeswoman said: "As the inquiry into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is a Portuguese police investigation it is not appropriate for us to comment on it. Our role is to assist the Portuguese authorities, when and if they request it, with UK based inquiries.

"But because it is a Portuguese investigation, and because of the judicial system there, we are not able to disclose the nature of those inquires."

The seven friends - who, with the McCanns, make up the Tapas Nine - have been steadfast in their loyalty to Madeleine's family.

The group - most of them doctors and professionals - was made up of:

[PIC: Still missing: Madeleine McCann]

Dr Russell O'Brien, 36
A consultant in acute medicine at the Royal Devon and Exeter Hospital, he knew Gerry McCann from Leicester.
He was on holiday with his partner Jane Tanner and their two young daughters.
At 9.25pm he left the restaurant for around 25 minutes to check on one of the girls, who was ill.
He has been subject to a vicious Portuguese press campaign alleging he was absent for over an hour when Madeleine went missing. He has threatened to sue, insisting: "These reports are completely untrue and extremely hurtful."

Jane Tanner, 37
Dr O'Brien's partner. She arrived late at the tapas bar after treating their sick daughter.
On the way, she passed the McCanns' apartment and saw a man carrying a child. Crucially, her description of the child's clothes matched Madeleine's pink pyjamas.

Dr Matthew Oldfield, 37
Dr Oldfield, an endocrinologist at Kingston Hospital in South-West London, went to check the McCann children at 9 25pm.
But he did not look inside the flat - simply listened from outside to ensure Madeleine and the twins were not crying.

Rachael Oldfield, 36
Dr Oldfield's wife, a former lawyer who is now a recruitment consultant.
She is one of four witnesses who claim to have seen the first suspect, British expat Robert Murat, near the McCanns' flat.
Last month she angrily dismissed reports that police had intercepted phone calls and emails between the McCanns and their friends which contradicted the group's earlier statements.
Mrs Oldfield accused Portuguese police of "throwing mud when we are not able to defend oursleves"

David Payne, 41
Mr Payne is a senior research fellow in cardiovascular sciences at Leicester University.
He and his wife and mother-in-law joined the group at 8.55pm.
They are believed to have been the only ones using a baby monitor to check on their two children.
Mr Payne has said: "All these smears and rumours are overshadowing the important thing, which is to get Madeleine back."

Dr Fiona Payne, 34
Mr Payne's wife, she is understood to have told police she saw Mr Murat shortly after Madeleine vanished.
Dr Payne and her husband stayed on in the Algarve to support the McCanns. When the couple were made official suspects, she said: "It's an outrage - a preposterous accusation."

Dianne Webster
Dr Payne's mother. She has given no public interviews.


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I think this is another reason that the PJ ultimately deemed JT 'not credible' as a witness?

I have for many years asked the very question, how on earth can JT have 'known', at the time she saw him, that GM had already checked the apartment?

The answer is she could not.

GM could have met up with JW on his way to the apartment and not even managed to make his 'check' by the time JT supposedly saw them.

The ONLY way she would have known that he had already done his check is if he told her, which is precisely what happened.

GM the puppeteer. Except he's not as clever as he likes to think he is.

Didn't one of the waiters at the Tapas say they never went as far as the apartment. Something about standing at the entrance only and not checking. So maybe he never got that far!

Woofer wrote:You`re not `keeping on` tiny.  These things need to be gone over. 

They certainly do. We also need to bear in mind that this forum continually attracts new visitors and members who may not know a lot of the information that is available.

Thankyou tiny, I didn't know about the scent being detected on someone else.

Had never known about this possible extra cadaverine hit. Fascinating. Especially why the info if true/correct might be kept back.

Angelique wrote:Didn't one of the waiters at the Tapas say they never went as far as the apartment. Something about standing at the entrance only and not checking. So maybe he never got that far!

Do you know whose statement that is please?I would like to read it!

gbwales wrote:Had never known about this possible extra cadaverine hit. Fascinating. Especially why the info if true/correct might be kept back.

From: Intercalary Report by Inspector Joao Carlos

This is an inspection technique commonly used in the UK, sometimes with positive results, consisting in the use of two specially trained dogs.

One of the dogs is trained to detect cadaver odour and the other to detect human blood traces.

Opting to use this resource, a large number of objects and places were examined, where, in some cases, the dogs were seen to show the behaviour of identification and signalling, as follows:

1. Apartment 5A, OC resort from which the girl disappeared

- Cadaver odour dog * in the couple's bedroom on the floor next to the wardrobe. * In the living room, behind the sofa, next to the lateral window of the apartment.

2. Patio area, in front of apartment 5 A

- Cadaver odour dog * in one of the flower beds, the dog handler commented upon the weakness (lightness) of the odour detected.

3. Apartments where the rest of the group was staying

* Nothing was found by either dog.

4. Residence of the McCann couple at the time of the date of inspection

* Nothing was found by either dog in the villa.

5. In the locality of P da L

* Nothing was found by either dog.

6. The clothes and belongings of the McCann family

- Cadaver odour dog * on two pieces of clothing belonging to Kate Healy. * On a piece of clothing belonging to Madeleine. * Possibly, on a soft toy belonging to Madeleine (cadaver odour was detected when the toy was still in the residence (on the date it was occupied by the family)). * Signalling was confirmed in a scenario outside the villa.

7. In the vehicle used by the McCann family

- cadaver odour dog * signalled the car key

- blood dog

* signalled the vehicle's key. * signalled inside the vehicle's luggage boot.

8. In a vehicle used by a friend of the family who was staying at the same resort, coinciding for a few days.

* Nothing was found by either dog.

9. In all the cars used by Robert Murat and people close to him

* Nothing was found by either dog.

(Of a total of 10 vehicles the cadaver odour dog and the blood dog only signalled the vehicle hired by the McCann family on 27th May).

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sharonl wrote:

There's a couple of other things worth mentioning re Jane Tanner.

First, somewhere I seem to recall than in an interview she made what some regarded as a 'Freudian slip' when she was heard ro say 'I carried her...' (Madeleine) - can't find the reference just now.

It's here Sharon.

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Just something I noticed...... on CW the other night(uk) it was said that the Tanner sighting was a dark haired male who came forward and he looked very like the drawing JT helped produce, the only person who would fit the drawing even better would be JT herself!
(bum cover/smokescreen)  ...imo
 
"I carried her"  

THE WOMAN IN PURPLE:

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The casual tennis partner of Gerry McCann believes he left home between 8:15/8:30 pm, on May 3, to walk his son, in a buggy, according to his statements to police. He turned right and, as he looked to the building next to the one where the McCann were staying, he saw a woman in a purple dress.



Jeremy Wilkins went down the street and went to the toilet near the swimming pool, close to the Tapas Bar, through the Ocean Club reception. He met a couple, the man with “rasta” hair and, after going out from the toilet, kept walking down the streets, around the backside of the tennis court.



He walked through several streets, as his soon was having difficulty in sleeping. He met another couple, a tourist named Curtis with his girlfriend. After walking around a lot, he found himself going out from a street to the road that goes to Batista Supermarket, between the McCann apartment and the Tapas Bar.



He saw Gerry McCann on the other side of the road (between 8:45 and 9:15 pm), not far from the gate that gave access to the stairs of the ground floor apartment and crossed the street to talk with him, in the sidewalk. As far as he can remember, they talked for 3 to 5 minutes. His soon was already asleep and, when the talk finished, Gerry went down, in the direction of Tapas Bar, and Jeremy Wilkins went up the street, turned to the left and returned to his apartment.



While talking to Gerry, he said that he couldn't guarantee that he didn't saw somebody, on the top of the street, because he was either looking to Gerry or to his baby, in the buggy, and probably was in a position with his back to the top of the street.



Questioned about Jane Tanner, who said, in her statements to police, that she saw both of them, talking, while she walked the same street to check her daughter, around 9:15 pm, Jeremy Wilkins said that he doesn't remember to see her, during his conversation with Gerry McCann.



But he believes he saw her, when he left home between 8:15/8:30 pm, May3, 2007 – she was standing in the street, just in front of the apartment of one of the McCann friends, doesn't know if it was her own apartment. He remembers that she was using a purple colour dress. At the time, he knew that she was one of McCann friends, but didn't knew her name.



Gerry's behaviour was perfectly normal and Jeremy admits that the light, on that area, could be enough, to somebody that would be in the same place he and Gerry were, to recognize a person already known or to give a general description of an unknown person that was walking on the top of the street.



Duarte Levy and Paulo Reis

Version Française



PS: Police officers from Leicestershire asked Jeremy Wilkins to read his original statement, made in Algarve, to PJ, to refresh his memory, before questioning him a second time, in UK, in April 2008, following the letter rogatory sent from Portugal

Sorry but after reading the topic again, I can't find why it's stated on the title: Cadaver scent on a third member of Tapas 9?

It's in the quote from the Daily Mail in sharoni's post (4th on page 1)

Friends of the McCanns faced fresh allegations yesterday after it was claimed that sniffer dogs had found the "scent of death" on one of them.

The same police dog which reacted to Mrs McCann's clothes - first causing suspicion to fall on her - was alleged to have smelled "death" on one of the friends who had dinner with the couple the night Madeleine vanished.

gbwales wrote:It's in the quote from the Daily Mail in sharoni's post (4th on page 1)

Friends of the McCanns faced fresh allegations yesterday after it was claimed that sniffer dogs had found the "scent of death" on one of them.

The same police dog which reacted to Mrs McCann's clothes - first causing suspicion to fall on her - was alleged to have smelled "death" on one of the friends who had dinner with the couple the night Madeleine vanished.

Oh, ok thank you, though it's not corroborated by the files.

sallypelt wrote:

Ayniia wrote:

gbwales wrote:It's in the quote from the Daily Mail in sharoni's post (4th on page 1)

Friends of the McCanns faced fresh allegations yesterday after it was claimed that sniffer dogs had found the "scent of death" on one of them.

The same police dog which reacted to Mrs McCann's clothes - first causing suspicion to fall on her - was alleged to have smelled "death" on one of the friends who had dinner with the couple the night Madeleine vanished.

Oh, ok thank you, though it's not corroborated by the files.

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"The same police dog which reacted to Mrs McCann's clothes - first causing suspicion to fall on her - was alleged to have smelled "death" on one of the friends who had dinner with the couple the night Madeleine vanished."
I'm just trying to say this is hearsay, not actually a fact.

Why I never thought Jane Tanner's bundleman could have been some chap stealing Madeleine away, is the manner in which she described the child being carried. However soundly asleep, you cannot IMNSHO carry a child the weight of an almost four year old with arms in from of you in that way because of the strain on your muscles. You would automatically shift the sleeping child to an upright position. Even if deeply asleep the child would likely stir, and hang on round the adults neck with her own arms.

The person who came forward was carrying a child half Madeleine's age: a toddler. After a bit, even carrying a baby that way, out in front becomes tiring. Why no practical common sense? Why didn't people try the thing out? I suppose its like the distance from the Tapas restaurant to the bottom of the steps up to the back way of 5A. Sometimes it is said to be 100 yards sometimes 50 yards. Hasn't it been measured to see what it really is?

I'm fed up with opinion where fact can be properly introduced.