GOLF mates

Just spotted this elswhere
More conspiracies ?

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Well spotted, PeterM.  When and where was this event held?  I'm assuming it's recent as we know the lifestyle fund's reserves are getting low and it seems Gezza can't afford to buy himself a pair of golfing trousers.  

The Club's centenary was 2011.

It appears that this Danny Spillane chap, the Rothley club manager does a quite a bit of this fundraising. 101 holes etc.

He has also spent some considerable time in Portugal.

Overseeing renovations of Golf courses there.

What was the date of the 100th anniversary of the club? When was the photo taken?

It stands to reason that as a 'lesser' member of the golf club McCann could have been well aware of the kind of 'retirement' resorts and tourist traps frequented by the elder members of the club. That's certainly true locally to me. I know MANY members of the local golf club (I'm not a member), some of whom know each other as contemporaries, some younger members are aware of the older members, most of the older members are unaware of anyone at the club but their contemporaries and so on. There are hierarchies and cliques. And within those cliques there are whole groups who own holiday property overseas within a handful of miles of each other, and do indeed meet up overseas, even travelling out in the same time frames. There are also some who hear about the places that the senior (usually well-heeled) members go to, and aspire to go there themselves, gossip and passing conversation indicating that those are nice places to go...

It is possible that Walkden didn't know McCann from McDonald in May 2007, and would have only become acquainted once he knew McCann's infamy through the media. Unless the date of this photo is prior to May 2007, I cannot understand why McCann would have been singled out for mention and appearance in that picture at all, when there are clearly senior and better-heeled members of the club who would oblige. It strikes me that the club took this as a photo-op, and it would be almost certain that there are members of the club who, for their own reasons, don't believe a word that comes out of Gerry's piehole. Remembering that the media and the establishment virtually canonised the gruesome twosome, and the PJ Files were not available for public access until much later, it does not seem unreasonable that GMC would become something of a celebrity locally, which clearly he adores - the shameless way he capitalises on each appearance with a smile and without a glimmer of the kind of solemnity or grief which would stem from that unshakeable feeling that the only reason you're even bestowed such privileges is because of the searing, heart-rending tragedy that has torn you limb from limb.

I think it is important not to over-speculate, and to be able to tell the difference between genuine coincidence and conspiracy.

In small communities particularly, it isn't unusual to find it is such a small world. People talk, place names get mentioned, recommendations get bandied about, and before you know it you're turning up in the same place and at the same time as someone you recognise but know nothing about. Happened to me on several occasions, both transatlantically and on the continent. I once bumped into someone I knew from New York, in Washington State, staying in the same fleapit motel in a town of about 2000 people, and we knew each other really well and had never discussed our travel plans at all. Once ended up stood in the queue in a Carls Jr Fast Food on the outskirts of King City, California behind someone who had been to my town in the North of England, had a meal in my home, and lived thousands of miles away from King City, California. Went to a client's house to repair a computer and mentioned that I was clearing up work before going on holiday on Friday. He said 'me too. Where you going?' I answered 'Cote d'Azur - Nice' and got back the reply 'f*** off, me too!.' I said 'oh, great... I love the place, my favourite, a regular haunt of mine, I go back every year, always to the same hotel, same restaurants, same attractions...' and he said 'stone me, this is getting weird... me TOO! Next you'll be telling me you stay at the Holiday Inn...' Very freaking small world. Especially when he collared me in the hotel bar to say 'my laptop won't stay connected to the wifi, can you have a look at it...?'

Ladyinred wrote:The Club's centenary was 2011.

Yes your right.

Link to it here.

I bet Gerry was cheesed off that his ugly mug is at the bottom of the newsletter.

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It's here:

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I hope you have sent this information to the police, PeterMac, what an interesting find...

This is a good example for using Null hypothesis.

The obvious jump is from this to Walkden and the Mccanns were telling lies about knowing each other, and the Scenic was used in some nefarious manner in a way to protect the McCanns by having it rented by someone else.

On the other hand:

McCanns rent Car

Coincidence Walkden rents car.

Walkden interviewed by police, realises that McCann is a local.

Feels connected to and sorry for McCanns

Organises fund raiser.


Now the conspiracy sounds fine but by assuming the opposite, one finds a perfectly rational and uninteresting explanation.

CynicAl wrote:

I think it is important not to over-speculate, and to be able to tell the difference between genuine coincidence and conspiracy.

'

So let me get this right - you're saying that a man hires a car, in a foreign country, that will later be shown to have, in all probability transported the dead body of the daughter of another member of the same golf club as him, and yet this is one of life's genuine funny little coincidences and therefore not worthy of further scrutiny?

Is that actually what you're saying?

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The 'distraught, permantly distressed' father of an 'abducted' child searches 'feverishly' around the club houses of Leicestershire golf clubs, on the off chance that his 'abducted' child is actually playing a game of 'hide and seek' in one of them.

TozerDerry wrote:
Now the conspiracy sounds fine but by assuming the opposite, one finds a perfectly rational and uninteresting explanation.

I think I'll be the judge of what I consider interesting or otherwise, thanks very much.

Would this be Kenneth Walkden of Inflatable World (Leisure) Ltd.      Bouncy castles and Inflatables of Loughborough, Leics.   ????

Just the usual sort of coincidence again I'm sure, not in any way connected to the huge inflatable that arrived in Portugal, must be hundreds of similar companies.

Clay Regazzoni wrote:

TozerDerry wrote:
Now the conspiracy sounds fine but by assuming the opposite, one finds a perfectly rational and uninteresting explanation.

I think I'll be the judge of what I consider interesting or otherwise, thanks very much.

Well TD, it would possibly uninteresting weren't it for the fact that itjust happened to be Walkden's hire car where thefigures didn't add up.
Add to that iirc that Walkden apparently said he didn't know Gerry McCann despite the fact that they are members of the same golf club, possibly the same lodge.

Well, they certainly know each other now by the looks of it.   

tigger wrote:

Clay Regazzoni wrote:

TozerDerry wrote:
Now the conspiracy sounds fine but by assuming the opposite, one finds a perfectly rational and uninteresting explanation.

I think I'll be the judge of what I consider interesting or otherwise, thanks very much.

Well TD, it would possibly uninteresting weren't it for the fact that itjust happened to be Walkden's hire car where thefigures didn't add up.
Add to that iirc that Walkden apparently said he didn't know  Gerry McCann despite the  fact that they are members of the same golf club, possibly the same lodge.

Well, they certainly know each other now by the looks of it.   

Again- was Gerry Mccann a member of that Golf Club in 2007.

The more you search for support for your thesis the less likely you are to be right. To support your thesis you need to consider trying to counter the opposite. This is how forensics worls.

Clay Regazzoni wrote:

CynicAl wrote:

I think it is important not to over-speculate, and to be able to tell the difference between genuine coincidence and conspiracy.

'

So let me get this right - you're saying that a man hires a car, in a foreign country, that will later be shown to have, in all probability transported the dead body of the daughter of another member of the same golf club as him, and yet this is one of life's genuine funny little coincidences and therefore not worthy of further scrutiny?

Is that actually what you're saying?

Either I have misunderstood this or there appears to be another case of "over enthusiastic" interpretation by yourself and others. Where does it say that GM is a member of the golf club? The fact that he turned up at the event and played a few holes does not make him a member. Or does this information come from another source?

TozerDerry wrote:
Again- was Gerry Mccann a member of that Golf Club in 2007.

Why don't you use your forensic method and prove that he wasn't.

Clay Regazzoni wrote:

CynicAl wrote:

I think it is important not to over-speculate, and to be able to tell the difference between genuine coincidence and conspiracy.

'

So let me get this right - you're saying that a man hires a car, in a foreign country, that will later be shown to have, in all probability transported the dead body of the daughter of another member of the same golf club as him, and yet this is one of life's genuine funny little coincidences and therefore not worthy of further scrutiny?

Is that actually what you're saying?

Correct.

In 1989 an earthquake shook San Francisco and caused a part of the Oakland Bay Bridge collapse, killing a lot of people. I was in San Francisco, driving across the Oakland Bay Bridge the day before. I did not cause the earthquake.

Curiously enough, and unbeknownst to me, someone who was known to my family, from the same town, was also in San Francisco that day. She ended up staying behind for several weeks to help the emergency responders and got a citation from the Mayor of San Francisco.

She didn't cause it either.

And I didn't cause it, or set it up the day before in order for her to be able to conveniently swing into action and become famous.

As far as I have seen there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Walkden knew McCann at all, let alone 'well', prior to May 2007. There is equally no evidence to suggest that he was in any way conspiring with McCann or anyone else to plan to take a child there and do them in... Are you really trying to sell 'foreknowledge', because that's something I think you'll be hard pressed to present evidence for. Conspiracy theory does not equal evidence. It equals an interpretation of evidence accompanied by an unhealthy dose of assumption and imagination. There is every credible reason to believe that two people in the same town, in the same golf club can, for a variety of reasons, end up going to the same holiday resort at a similar time of year and I'm guessing - from what one of my clients who owns an apartment in PDL tells me - that PDL is a relatively one horse kind of town where a car rental shop has a limited supply of vehicles and doesn't circulate them around very often.

Did you know, in fact, that the television show 'A Place in the Sun' has been to PDL and promoted the sale of apartments in the vicinity of OC, including an apartment in the same building my client owns an apartment in, a very luxurious property indeed. Seriously, are you telling me that the TV show was setting the stage for either international pedophilia or infanticide?

See, none of the details taken objectively even tempt a bizarre conclusion... There's a resort... Two people from the same golf club attend it on family holidays several weeks apart... They end up hiring the same hire car, over a month apart, but only after one of the two people ends up, due to dark circumstances, having to extend their stay unexpectedly...

See, all this theorisation is OK, but it isn't sane unless you're assuming that there is no disconnect between events... If Walkden hired the car and stayed in PDL until McCann arrived, and handed the keys to McCann on that day, then maybe you've got conspiracy... But where there are gaps, and where control of the scene is handed to third parties who are not evidenced as being part of a conspiracy, then you're handing 'planning' over to the black hole of 'circumstance and possibility.' In the weeks between Walkden and McCann ending up in custody of the car, what if someone else hired it and totalled it? What did Walkden do to the car to make it ready to transport a dead body which presumably wasn't made dead until several weeks later? It isn't credible to try to connect these dots through an uncontrolled scene. Either these people controlled the whole scene for the whole time span, or they didn't. Either we're dealing with a conspiracy in which nothing is left to chance, or we're dealing with a reaction to happenstance and the crossover between a few key points of contact in a very small place...

I'm saying that the circumstances should be - and have been - scrutinised. But I draw the line at insisting on inventing conspiracy theories to keep the dots connected when there is absolutely no evidence that we can, or should, do so. Right now a man who is almost certainly innocent of absolutely everything that his name has become associated with is being smeared as guilty by association. That's dangerous. There's no evidence to legitimise it. I understand the frustration at the apparent overlooking of where the evidence really does point, but that isn't solved by trying to drag as many names as possible into an ever-widening monster of a conspiracy, when the answer is probably extremely mundane by comparison.

Clay Regazzoni wrote:

TozerDerry wrote:
Again- was Gerry Mccann a member of that Golf Club in 2007.

Why don't you use your forensic method and prove that he wasn't.

Oh, come on...

When we get into the childish 'prove that my assertion ISN'T true' territory, that's when things go wildly askew.

Prove that Steven Spielberg wasn't in PDL in May 2007 filming a 'special commission' on behalf of a billionaire client who was obsessed with young blonde girls called Maddie...

I said it. Up to you to prove it isn't true.

Right?

CynicAl wrote:

Clay Regazzoni wrote:

TozerDerry wrote:
Again- was Gerry Mccann a member of that Golf Club in 2007.

Why don't you use your forensic method and prove that he wasn't.

Oh, come on...

When we get into the childish 'prove that my assertion ISN'T true' territory, that's when things go wildly askew.

Prove that Steven Spielberg wasn't in PDL in May 2007 filming a 'special commission' on behalf of a billionaire client who was obsessed with young blonde girls called Maddie...

I said it. Up to you to prove it isn't true.

Right?

OK Ken, don't protestetheth too much.

TozerDerry wrote:

tigger wrote:

Clay Regazzoni wrote:

TozerDerry wrote:
Now the conspiracy sounds fine but by assuming the opposite, one finds a perfectly rational and uninteresting explanation.

I think I'll be the judge of what I consider interesting or otherwise, thanks very much.

Well TD, it would possibly uninteresting weren't it for the fact that itjust happened to be Walkden's hire car where thefigures didn't add up.
Add to that iirc that Walkden apparently said he didn't know  Gerry McCann despite the  fact that they are members of the same golf club, possibly the same lodge.

Well, they certainly know each other now by the looks of it.   

Again- was Gerry Mccann a member of that Golf Club in 2007.

The more you search for support for your thesis the less likely you are to be right. To support your thesis you need to consider trying to counter the opposite. This is how forensics worls.

From KW's rog. Statement: I am not familiar with any member of the McCann family and neither do I know any of them.
This was in April 2008.

Gerry was a golf enthusiast to such an extend that he made a few golf trips abroad, gave Father Seddon a set of golf clubs when he married them.
A set of golf clubs was stolen from their car in Rothley, where do you think he played golf once he lived in Rothley? St. Andrews?

Re the bolded sentence above, Imo it stands as an example of the Blairite education system. A 100% success rate.

Please read it to yourself and work out if you wish to consider to attempt countering the opposite, because countering the opposite would mean you're right back with the thesis you don't like, possibly because you know that the more you search the less likely it is that you'll be right about this thesis, countering the opposite again and then losing heart because - so how pointless can it all be?

A cosmic question....  

Clay Regazzoni wrote:

CynicAl wrote:

Clay Regazzoni wrote:

TozerDerry wrote:
Again- was Gerry Mccann a member of that Golf Club in 2007.

Why don't you use your forensic method and prove that he wasn't.

Oh, come on...

When we get into the childish 'prove that my assertion ISN'T true' territory, that's when things go wildly askew.

Prove that Steven Spielberg wasn't in PDL in May 2007 filming a 'special commission' on behalf of a billionaire client who was obsessed with young blonde girls called Maddie...

I said it. Up to you to prove it isn't true.

Right?

OK Ken, don't protestetheth too much.

I hope you're joking, else that comment only serves to prove the point and demonstrates a pitiful absence of maturity.

tigger wrote:

Clay Regazzoni wrote:

TozerDerry wrote:
Now the conspiracy sounds fine but by assuming the opposite, one finds a perfectly rational and uninteresting explanation.

I think I'll be the judge of what I consider interesting or otherwise, thanks very much.

Well TD, it would possibly uninteresting weren't it for the fact that itjust happened to be Walkden's hire car where thefigures didn't add up.
Add to that iirc that Walkden apparently said he didn't know  Gerry McCann despite the  fact that they are members of the same golf club, possibly the same lodge.

Well, they certainly know each other now by the looks of it.   

"they certainly know each other now by the looks of it" - it seems that an assumption is being made that the picture shows Gerry with Walkden.  I can't see where it tells us that, in fact it seems more likely that it is Gerry with Spillane.  Also, I don't see anything in the article to let me conclude that they certainly know each other now - all it mentions is that Walkden caddied for Spillane, and then separately says Danny (Spillane) was joined for these by Gerry.  I think we have jumped to conclusions with this.

CynicAl wrote:

Clay Regazzoni wrote:

CynicAl wrote:

I think it is important not to over-speculate, and to be able to tell the difference between genuine coincidence and conspiracy.

'

So let me get this right - you're saying that a man hires a car, in a foreign country, that will later be shown to have, in all probability transported the dead body of the daughter of another member of the same golf club as him, and yet this is one of life's genuine funny little coincidences and therefore not worthy of further scrutiny?

Is that actually what you're saying?

Correct.

In 1989 an earthquake shook San Francisco and caused a part of the Oakland Bay Bridge collapse, killing a lot of people. I was in San Francisco, driving across the Oakland Bay Bridge the day before. I did not cause the earthquake.

Curiously enough, and unbeknownst to me, someone who was known to my family, from the same town, was also in San Francisco that day. She ended up staying behind for several weeks to help the emergency responders and got a citation from the Mayor of San Francisco.

She didn't cause it either.

And I didn't cause it, or set it up the day before in order for her to be able to conveniently swing into action and become famous.

As far as I have seen there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Walkden knew McCann at all, let alone 'well', prior to May 2007. There is equally no evidence to suggest that he was in any way conspiring with McCann or anyone else to plan to take a child there and do them in... Are you really trying to sell 'foreknowledge', because that's something I think you'll be hard pressed to present evidence for. Conspiracy theory does not equal evidence. It equals an interpretation of evidence accompanied by an unhealthy dose of assumption and imagination. There is every credible reason to believe that two people in the same town, in the same golf club can, for a variety of reasons, end up going to the same holiday resort at a similar time of year and I'm guessing - from what one of my clients who owns an apartment in PDL tells me - that PDL is a relatively one horse kind of town where a car rental shop has a limited supply of vehicles and doesn't circulate them around very often.

Did you know, in fact, that the television show 'A Place in the Sun' has been to PDL and promoted the sale of apartments in the vicinity of OC, including an apartment in the same building my client owns an apartment in, a very luxurious property indeed. Seriously, are you telling me that the TV show was setting the stage for either international pedophilia or infanticide?

See, none of the details taken objectively even tempt a bizarre conclusion... There's a resort... Two people from the same golf club attend it on family holidays several weeks apart... They end up hiring the same hire car, over a month apart, but only after one of the two people ends up, due to dark circumstances, having to extend their stay unexpectedly...

See, all this theorisation is OK, but it isn't sane unless you're assuming that there is no disconnect between events... If Walkden hired the car and stayed in PDL until McCann arrived, and handed the keys to McCann on that day, then maybe you've got conspiracy... But where there are gaps, and where control of the scene is handed to third parties who are not evidenced as being part of a conspiracy, then you're handing 'planning' over to the black hole of 'circumstance and possibility.' In the weeks between Walkden and McCann ending up in custody of the car, what if someone else hired it and totalled it? What did Walkden do to the car to make it ready to transport a dead body which presumably wasn't made dead until several weeks later? It isn't credible to try to connect these dots through an uncontrolled scene. Either these people controlled the whole scene for the whole time span, or they didn't. Either we're dealing with a conspiracy in which nothing is left to chance, or we're dealing with a reaction to happenstance and the crossover between a few key points of contact in a very small place...

I'm saying that the circumstances should be - and have been - scrutinised. But I draw the line at insisting on inventing conspiracy theories to keep the dots connected when there is absolutely no evidence that we can, or should, do so. Right now a man who is almost certainly innocent of absolutely everything that his name has become associated with is being smeared as guilty by association. That's dangerous. There's no evidence to legitimise it. I understand the frustration at the apparent overlooking of where the evidence really does point, but that isn't solved by trying to drag as many names as possible into an ever-widening monster of a conspiracy, when the answer is probably extremely mundane by comparison.

Coincidences- I was in California on that day driving from Yosemite to Big Sur. At about 5pm my wife said -there's a hell of a wind in these hills, and I said don't be silly its dead still. At about 5pm I turned on the radio to listen to the World Series which was SF Oakland. And they said there had been an earthquake. Maybe I caused it! The previous week we had stayed in one of the hotels trashed in the Marina district!

Clay Regazzoni wrote:

TozerDerry wrote:
Again- was Gerry Mccann a member of that Golf Club in 2007.

Why don't you use your forensic method and prove that he wasn't.

We have no evidence that he has ever been a member of the club.