Mark Warner/Ocean Club

Stella wrote:

pauline wrote:
But I just can't come up with a scenario (other than abduction) where the interests of the McCanns and Mark Warner would be the same.

I can. What if MW uses a self employed middleman to organise 'adult themed' group holidays. Middleman arranges party nights on MW premises somewhere. Middleman books them all into MW apartments and for that he gets a cut of the booking.

Neither MW or anyone in the party would like anyone to know about this type of holiday, both have the same needs which is to protect their image.

That's just one hypothetical scenario. I can think of a few more.

Dont really think that works. But I love the 'adult themed' hols. You should go into that! All the people who used to go on the 18 - 30 Med holidays are now too old for them, so some bright spark could make a mint out of the next chapter : 30 - 45 Meds. Why stop there, carry on!

I don't think they would need a 'middle man' to do this. IMO that was Payne, who always organised the holidays, in Greece, in Majorca and perhaps at home there were the occasional parties. Although newspapers would make much of 'swingers' it would have to be proved and that would be hard. So all the Tapas could get a fat settlement from the press anyway.
If the people believed MW was a swingers paradise, they'd be inundated. Sun, sand, sea, sex and the children safely looked after by nannies.
These would be all the people who went on the 18 - 30 holidays for more or less the same reasons.

The difference being at 18 years of age, you do not yet hold a position of importance in society. But, at near 40 and with top positions in medicine, banking and politics, tales of sex, drugs and rock & roll, could loose you your bread line. Many of theses things and far worse are done behind closed doors for a reason.

Just look at what the Jersey care home offered on the side.

Admin wrote:Cavorting half-naked as a pole-dancing nurse, the nanny who is a key witness in Maddie case

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And if Maddie had disappeared whilst under the care of a nanny would Kate and Gerry have made these quotes:

Gerry McCann: We have been advised our babysitters behaviour was legally well within the bounds of responsible babysitting.

Kate McCann: Hasn't the babysitter suffered enough without all these new lies coming out?

Gerry McCann: The babysitter has to concentrate on her own well-being now.

Gerry McCann: It could have been worse, the babysitter could have lost the twins too.

Kate McCann: Well it was her holiday too.

Kate McCann: It cannot be considered a crime. Someone committed one, but it wasn't the babysitter.

Clarence Mitchell: If Maddie's dead, then she's dead, but not by the babysitter's hands.

Kate McCann: I think that it is only a small minority who is criticising the babysitter.

Clarence Mitchell: The babysitter doesn't cry in public, but there's plenty of tears backstage.

Kate McCann: There's not a day goes by when the babysitter doesn't think "Was that ok. Was she wrong in thinking that was ok?"

Babysitter: "This is my job now. I can see this becoming my full-time career, with this whole issue of child welfare and opposing paedophiles."

Gerry McCann: "One good thing to come out of all of this is that there is so much in the press, nobody knows what is true, and what isn't."

Gerry McCann: "The babysitter has done nothing against the law."

Gerry McCann: "Kate and I are totally 100% confident in the babysitter's innocence."

Gerry McCann: "The babysitter is being absolutely stitched up."

Kate McCann: "Whoever Madeleine's with she'll be giving them her tuppence worth."

But surely, it would always be in the McCann's interest to stick up for the nannies? If they blamed the nannies in any way that would emphasise their own lack of care. With the nannies on board, the nannies praised to the skies, they had free approval of the child minders for their actions.
There's the doubtful creche records for a start. I think the relationship between the negligent McCanns and the somewhat inattentive nannies was a perfectly symbiotic one. If they'd slated the nannies, the fact that they declined the service when it was offered would have been headlined all the time. The nannies would have no reason to hold back. As it was, the offer of a nanny at night wasn't mentioned much at all.

As far as the partying goes, it's about average for girls that age and in that situation. I see no 'half naked' girl dressed in a nurse's uniform. Actually I see a slightly self conscious girl in fancy dress which is covering more flesh than often seen in many a high street.
The group of girls showing their bras are clearly a bit drunk, but not roaring. It's what you do on holiday, something silly. A photograph to remind you of a fun time in your life, when you were young, attractive and by the looks of it, pretty carefree. I think it's harmless.

Is it me or does anyone else think that it is strange how the T9 use the Mark Warner name in a most peculiar manner?

Going through the rogatories (did I spell that right) alone there are no less than 154 references to Mark Warner. Kate mentions Mark Warner 40 times in her book and I feel that I understand Mark Warner better than Madeleine after reading it. I find in David Payne's interview fascinating.

Mark Warner = GOD:

Basically when, prior to the booking Mark Warner had he said oh yes it's, don't worry we can make sure that all the apartments are together and then subsequently after booking I then, I, obviously it was just something that was very because we knew there was some difficulties geographically that you could be split out over quite a distance on the actual Mark Warner site. Well that would have impacted, we felt quite heavily on the holiday if we'd have one couple were, completely out on the limb and everyone else was together so when I'd mentioned this again just to, just to confirm that that would be the situation, that we'd be all together they, the reply was I'm afraid we can't actually guarantee that you will all be together because this is not solely a Mark Warner set up so unfortunately we are slightly at the vagaries of the Ocean Club about where couples will be but we'll do our utmost to make sure that you are together. So yeah so that's generally the way that the, the conversation or the email correspondence went. I, there was other things that were slightly different obviously from the childcare point of view. They had the, they had the listening service that they have, at the other Mark Warner venues that we'd been on, and that was part, that was the concept again that we were buying in to the Mark Warner and when we went out there that was partly, so again there was some correspondence we had with them just checking what, what was available in terms of the dinners as well, Mark Warner's are generally I think half, half board and that wasn't on offer so there's some differences with Mark, that, that particular venue compared with the other Mark Warner's that the, that the couples I've already mentioned had been on previously."

It's almost as if somebody has paid David Payne to mention Mark Warner as often as possible. These well educated T9 almost haven't lived unless they are part of the Mark Warner experience. The concept that they allegedly buy in to is very cleverly woven into the whole "home alone" "child checking" plot.

They were even better than GOD:

"Was, was reasonable. We were checking the children more often than, than Mark Warner would do, not only were they, it wasn't just a listening outside the door, people were going in and checking the children so from that perspective we felt we were doing more than they normally would do. So from that point of view it, it was, a bit of a, not say inconvenience isn't the right word, but we were, we knew what we going, what, what it was going to be like when we got there and we thought what we were doing was, was more than adequate than a lot of the Mark Warner centres across Europe do."

No Mark Warner guest would harm a child (or wear bad clothes)

"Dark colours, but again it was, I think it was quite dark, so dark, sort of darkish jacket but then a more, a lighter trouser but a horrible colour, again this is, sort of a yellowy dark browny, horrible, but not, not a nice colour trousers, but then I wonder whether that was the lights making them look, making them look more of a sort of a mustard, it wasn't mustard because that's too bright, but it was just like a, as I say they weren't nice, they weren't the sort of clothes I'd expect somebody on a MARK WARNER holiday to, they was, I can't think of the material, I tried to describe this before, but sort of a cottony material but baggy".

Molly wrote:as I say they weren't nice, they weren't the sort of clothes I'd expect somebody on a MARK WARNER holiday to, they was, I can't think of the material, I tried to describe this before, but sort of a cottony material but baggy".

Sounds like all these "professional types" that like Mark Warner must all be snobs then.



Has anyone noticed that there was an extra charge for the tennis lessons. It is in the Praia Basics at the bottom of the page.



"Diving courses, tennis coaching and tuition for RYA sailing qualifications cost extra,"



Lovely then that the McCanns were happy paying out for their bottles of New Zealand White and their own tennis lessons but not on childcare for the children.

Hi Molly,
I think the name is invoked so often because it takes responsibility away from the T9. It went well in Greece and other MW holidays, so they expected the same here.
On top of that, I think they're trying to say MW is rather posh not at all like Butlins. So you'd expect NICE people to be there, not paedophile abductors who don't even dress very well. Tut, tut. None of them hear themselves talk do they? It really does sound as if MW is God, and all should be well and better than well.

And Stella, yes, you're right that being found out to be swingers would reflect on their job and status, but who is going to prove that? Anway, it's between consenting adults, but I think a bit of spice like recreational drugs might be part of it as well. Alcohol, some cocaine, or perhaps cannabis.
That might be proved and would be far more damaging to their careers.
Why on earth couldn't they leave the children with relatives for a week and enjoy themselves to their heart's content? They could even pay the relatives to look after them. Taking the children on what is clearly only partly a 'family' holiday out of season seems daft.
Did they have quite as many children with them the previous holidays? And shy? And now I'm thinking of the Gaspars' statement.

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The Ocean Club (OC), located in PRAIA DA LUZ (PdL), is close to a major town, LAGOS, which is in the ALGARVE, the most southern region of PORTUGAL.

The ALGARVE is served by the FARO's Airport, which has direct flights to and from the UK.

LAGOS has a MARINA, which is great to accommodate those that do like to exhibit how much money they have, which is by no means illegal or unethical, but certainly is an area where size does matter, as it has a direct proportion in WEALTH, POWER and VANITY.

LAGOS, like other ALGARVE cities with marinas, offers offshore activities like “Seafary” Cruises and Big Game Fishing.

The coastline, East of LAGOS, up to SAGRES, where PdL is inserted in, is made up of cliffs which make it one of the most interesting scenarios to be seen, and offers one of the most sought after scuba diving locations.

PdL, where the OC is located, has a rather large beach. Besides the evident enjoyment of the well known "Algarve Trilogy" (Beach/Climate/Sea) which attracts so many tourists from all over the world, it also allows the enjoyment of various watersports.

Between PdL and LAGOS, there’s the BOAVISTA GOLF COURSE (BGC). One could even exaggerate and say that the BGC and the OC are next door neighbours. But to say that golf would is one of the OC’s major attraction, would be no exaggeration at all.

The OC Complex layout is very convenient if one would like to invest in satisfying more "peculiar" wants of special guests. It's spread out all over PdL, so some of its facilities could be exclusively dedicated to swinging while others would remain for the “normal” tourism. The added advantage would be that "normal area" wouldn't need to know about or contact with the "swinging area", so the so much needed and demanded discretion would be guaranteed.

PdL, being and offroad small town, with an adequate "colonization" it would be possible to ward off the less welcomed "foreigners". If things had gone they should have gone, PdL to remain discreet and generally unknown, the only “strangers” present would be the Portuguese, as “native peasants”, either in the form of local residents or of labour, or, most likely, in both.

Repeating myself, the Ocean Club (OC), located in PRAIA DA LUZ (PdL), is close to major town, LAGOS, which is in the ALGARVE, PORTUGAL’s most southern region, and the Portuguese have a very little sexual hang-ups, and albeit a very conservative and catholic lifestyle do have a liberal mindset.

The ALGARVE in the 60's and 70's, it was one of the few places in the world where topless was done with no raising of eyebrows whatsoever.

The Portuguese consider each one’s sexual behavior as a very personal issue, so VERY rarely are there sex-scandals referred in the media. They do exist, like in any other country, but are contained to private comment, and the usual effect is the sudden spawning of jokes about the theme or characters involved.

The OC is then located in a country very permissible and DISCREET about things such as swinging. Only comparable to HOLLAND, or maybe BELGIUM, but far, far better in terms of location.

A perfect location for a Swinging Club, EXCLUSIVE to the powerful and the rich and to those that are both.

Nothing, it seems, could be added to such perfection. For example, to have made it more luxurious, would called for unwelcomed attention, and the scenario where and as it was set, provided full satisfaction to the type of guest that was targeted.

What could it spoil it? An earthquake could. A tsunami also. Or, if you really want to let your imagination go wild, the death of a little girl whose corpse, time or location of death, would raise questions whose answers would compromise the lives of those present in such an atypical kind of holiday. The MAJORITY of which had had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the little's girl's death. But life is sarcastic, isn't it?

Comments:

Textusa said....
Just to clarify, although we're grateful for all help given, this blog is "factual" and will remain so. We base our posts on fact, and fact alone. Be it from official documentation or through research. We do not publish anything that hasn't been approved by our very strict "code of conduct" in the search for the truth however inconvenient it may be. Your questions very often stimulate out thought process, and do direct us into areas which we weren't thinking of relooking, and thanks to you, we've found very interesting things.

Anonymous said...
The Ocean Club's public image has to be the perfect family-holiday oriented resort. The Symington family has a reputation to maintain and protect! A very traditional and honourable family, distinguished wine merchants, in Portugal for generations (since the XVIIIth cent., I think) just cannot afford to have its name connected with anything "unsavory".

Anonymous said...
It is quite possible they were swingers, Gerry inviting the busty quiz girl back to their table. If they were ordinary couples enjoying a break there would be no need to invite additional female company.
Another thing I find odd is their statements the men seem to always be together then the woman join them almost like two separate groups.
Supposing they were all swingers where does this place the Gaspars statement, were they also swingers who had become jealous of the mccanns friends hence her rather absurbed statement.
It would explain their 'pact of silence' and why staff lied in OC.

Anonymous said...
I know swinging goes on, Louis Theroux did a TV program about it a few years ago and the people interviewed were quite happy to divulge their hobby.
If that is a lifestyle choice and partners are happy then that is up to them. It may have been happening in PdL and as the typical profile of a swinger is 'middle class, aged in the thirties with children, often in the medical profession'. The people in this category need somewhere to go to indulge their hobby.

The McCann party certainly didn't go to PdL for the water sports or the tennis if you look at the booking forms. They must have had plenty of time on their hands while their children were put in creches. Typical family holiday when you dispatch the kids every day so the parents are free?

The weather wasn't good, it rained, the kids were off their hands... and as they say 'the devil makes work for idle hands'.

WHAT DID THEY DO?

Maybe more relevant, who else was there joining the party?

After being out with a friend this evening and speaking to him for the first time about this case, I was interested to learn that his sister had worked for Mark Warner resorts for many years in Italy, Switzerland, and Greece. She has always commented to her family/friends over the years on how the vast majority of customers/clients at all these resorts were very insistent they were to be addressed as 'doctors'. You were brought to bare if you called them Mr or Mrs and they were insistent to be called as doctors. The wives were the worst apparently. Though this does not prove anything in the Mccann scam, this does answer why there were so many doctors at the resort during this week. It seems in the "doctors world" that Mark Warner obviously was the place to go on holiday, mainly due to their child care. You had to have money to be able to afford to stay there

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Ofsted Whistleblower reveals widespread failings in the care of the under-fives

Viewers will be shocked to see how Imogen Willcocks, a 21-year-old undercover BBC journalist with no experience of looking after children and no professional qualifications, is employed to look after young children under the age of five by two nurseries in Britain, and a leading British holiday company (Mark Warner). Furthermore, they will see her approved as a registered childminder by Ofsted.

Imogen's undercover filming takes place at Just Learning in Cambourne (near Cambridge) and Buttons nursery in west London, as well as a Mark Warner holiday resort in Dahab, Egypt – an upmarket company that markets itself as offering "award-winning childcare".

The undercover footage in the programme reveals:

•A failure to make criminal record and reference checks – The companies that featured in the programme all employed Imogen to look after young children without obtaining CRB (Criminal Records Bureau) checks, or speaking to any of her referees.

•Adult to child ratios are not met – The required adult to child ratios were not always met – At Mark Warner, an extra child arrives at the crèche but no one knows who she is

•Health & Safety compromised – The BBC reporter was given no practical training to ensure that she could deal with emergency situations whilst looking after the children. And the health and safety of the children was compromised on a number of occasions – At Mark Warner, the BBC reporter was asked to accompany and supervise young children on a sailing trip without enough safety helmets for all the children, and take young children into the water without any assessment of her swimming ability. Also, at the Mark Warner resort in Egypt, a room listening service designed to check on children every 30 minutes whilst their parents are out, was found to be inappropriate because the staff could only listen at the door – they couldn't see if the children were all right or go into the rooms. Indeed, a Mark Warner nanny told the BBC undercover journalist that before the journalist arrived in April 07, a girl under the age of five had escaped through the window of a room and was found wandering around the complex within metres of the pool.

•No training – No or negligible training was given to the undercover BBC reporter in any of her jobs. This is despite the fact that Mark Warner, for example, told her that she would receive training before starting the job.

•Illegal working on tourist visas – Mark Warner employees at the resort were found working illegally on tourist visas because, according to one member of staff, Mark Warner are "too cheap to cough up and pay for [work] visas".


From Imogen Willcocks:
Mark Warner operates at the top of the holiday market, charging up to £8,000 for two weeks abroad for a family of four. It makes a point of offering "award-winning" childcare. That award-winning care didn't extend to checking my CV, contacting my references, doing a criminal records check or even asking to see some basic ID. Again, I could have been anyone.

I worked at Mark Warner's swanky Hilton resort in Dahab, Egypt, where the luxurious hotel rooms are built to resemble a traditional whitewashed Arab village. Despite being promised two days' training at the interview, I was thrown straight in with a group of toddlers. Once, there were two of us looking after 13 children - when Mark Warner's own regulations state there should be no more than six per adult.

When I asked about my training, the manager just said: "You don't get official training as such. It's very relaxed, very laid-back here." This is unlikely to be the approach parents think they are paying for.

Next, I was asked to supervise the children on the beach. Again, no one had checked if I had any swimming or rescue qualifications. Even more worrying, I had to take children out on a boat without enough safety gear for all of them. When I raised the issue with my manager, he told me to go ahead with the boat trip anyway. Also, for such a prestigious company with an upmarket reputation, Mark Warner has a very cavalier attitude to the employment laws of the countries where it operates, and is not controlled by Ofsted.

Like many of its staff in Dahab, I was there on a tourist visa. Mark Warner should have paid for work permits but instead had us break Egyptian law on their behalf. We were told we should just lie and say we were there on holiday, but Egypt is not the kind of country-where you want to end up in prison. Three weeks after I returned from Egypt, the disappearance of Madeleine McCann from a Mark Warner resort in Praia da Luz in Portugal made headlines around the world. No one blamed the company or its staff for the little girl's disappearance, but given the case, I assumed the company would toughen up its vetting of nannies."


This was at a Mark Warner resort in Dahab, Egypt between 2 and 14 April 2007....a month later a fatal accident in their resort in PDL. And there was the investigation into their resort a year previous in Greece. What any company fears most is negative publicity. In the PDL resort this is the most serious and would require a deep and throughly investigation into Mark Warner and we have a good idea of how they operated. This would mean them losing their ATOL license, their business, they have the motive for the cover up and the only way out it seems was for an abduction type scenario. This takes the blame off them and since day one there has never been any sort of blame attached to Mark Warner or any finger os suspicion pointed in their direction, not even their child care which as we have seen is anything but legit. Wonder how Charlotte Pennington got the job?

Just out of curiosity I searched the MW blogsite for 'Madeleine McCann' and McCann. They come up with: 'Error 404, sorry, what you are looking for is not there'.

A poignant remark, if ever there was one

Portia wrote:Just out of curiosity I searched the MW blogsite for 'Madeleine McCann' and McCann. They come up with: 'Error 404, sorry, what you are looking for is not there'.

A poignant remark, if ever there was one

The current Mark Warner page on Madeleine has no reference to her at all just links to their holidays.

Here it is [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Also it seems that the Mark Warner founder Mark Chitty was more than helpful to Kate & Gerry. Forgive me if this has been shown before but I have only just seen it  

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tigger wrote:

Stella wrote:

pauline wrote:
But I just can't come up with a scenario (other than abduction) where the interests of the McCanns and Mark Warner would be the same.

I can. What if MW uses a self employed middleman to organise 'adult themed' group holidays. Middleman arranges party nights on MW premises somewhere. Middleman books them all into MW apartments and for that he gets a cut of the booking.

Neither MW or anyone in the party would like anyone to know about this type of holiday, both have the same needs which is to protect their image.

That's just one hypothetical scenario. I can think of a few more.

Dont really think that works. But I love the 'adult themed' hols. You should go into that!  All the people who used to go on the 18 - 30 Med holidays are now too old for them, so some bright spark could make a mint out of the next chapter :  30 - 45  Meds. Why stop there, carry on!

I don't think they would need a 'middle man' to do this. IMO that was Payne, who always organised the holidays, in Greece, in Majorca and perhaps at home there were the occasional parties. Although newspapers would make much of  'swingers' it would have to be proved and that would be hard. So all the Tapas could get a fat settlement from the press anyway.
If the people believed MW was a swingers paradise, they'd be inundated. Sun, sand, sea, sex and the children  safely looked after by nannies.
These would be all the people who went on the 18 - 30 holidays for more or less the same reasons.

IMO.......
Some theorise that RM was the 'arranger' of the adult-themed holidays with SM being the person setting up the IT-side to support it.  Adult-themed holidays are a great way of creating trade in low-peak seasons.
I also found that the Vigia group (connected to Rothley Park Golf Club) dwho own and develop some of the apartments and golf club complexes
have someone who advised them - Andy Burridge. His consultancy helps companies to maximise their business takings in low peak seasons - offering ideas / activities. It seems that his wife Nancy found a bag of 'supposedly' Maddie's clothing / items - mysteriously found by a road side near Lagos.

I think this thread is really touching on some of the key links to establishment figures.

tigger wrote:Hi Molly,
I think the name is invoked so often because it takes responsibility away from the T9. It went well in Greece and other MW holidays, so they expected the same here.
On top of that, I think they're trying to say MW is rather posh not at all like Butlins. So you'd expect NICE people to be there, not paedophile abductors who don't even dress very well. Tut, tut. None of them hear themselves talk do they? It really does sound as if MW is God, and all should be well and better than well.

And Stella, yes, you're right that being found out to be swingers would reflect on their job and status, but who is going to prove that? Anway, it's between consenting adults, but  I think a bit of spice like recreational drugs might be part of it as well. Alcohol, some cocaine, or perhaps  cannabis.
That might be proved and would be far more damaging to their careers.  
Why on earth couldn't they leave the children with relatives for a week and enjoy themselves to their heart's content? They could even pay the relatives to look after them. Taking the children on what is clearly only partly a 'family' holiday out of season seems daft.
Did they have quite as many children with them the previous holidays? And shy? And now I'm thinking of the Gaspars' statement.

People often think that 'swinger's would not go on holiday with their children. In fact, I think this is not the case. Swinger or adult themed holidays always are very good at the childcare side of things.  A group of adults will never be able to arrange for their kids to be with relatives - all at the same time. Much better to go somewhere who will lay on appropriate childcare. Also, couples cant say to relatives' Please have the kids for a week, we need to go off and have a nice 'adults-only' time! '.  Wouldnt that sound strange? All their relatives would wonder why they didn't want a  nice family holiday.  Swinging holidays realise this and put on excellent child care knowing that they wont get adults to come unless they have this service. I suspect that swinging is addictive -once you dip your toes in you probably cant stop.  I also dont think this was  general swinging week....i think it was highly exclusive with with people like PE being there. By exclusive invitation only... probably mingled in with investment opportunities (see Vigia group etc references). So you would have had to have money and be on an excusive guest list to go there on that particular week.  It was probably GM's first invitation of such an exclusive nature.

HelenMeg wrote:

tigger wrote:Hi Molly,
I think the name is invoked so often because it takes responsibility away from the T9. It went well in Greece and other MW holidays, so they expected the same here.
On top of that, I think they're trying to say MW is rather posh not at all like Butlins. So you'd expect NICE people to be there, not paedophile abductors who don't even dress very well. Tut, tut. None of them hear themselves talk do they? It really does sound as if MW is God, and all should be well and better than well.

And Stella, yes, you're right that being found out to be swingers would reflect on their job and status, but who is going to prove that? Anway, it's between consenting adults, but  I think a bit of spice like recreational drugs might be part of it as well. Alcohol, some cocaine, or perhaps  cannabis.
That might be proved and would be far more damaging to their careers.  
Why on earth couldn't they leave the children with relatives for a week and enjoy themselves to their heart's content? They could even pay the relatives to look after them. Taking the children on what is clearly only partly a 'family' holiday out of season seems daft.
Did they have quite as many children with them the previous holidays? And shy? And now I'm thinking of the Gaspars' statement.

People often think that 'swinger's would not go on holiday with their children. In fact, I think this is not the case. Swinger or adult themed holidays always are very good at the childcare side of things.  A group of adults will never be able to arrange for their kids to be with relatives - all at the same time. Much better to go somewhere who will lay on appropriate childcare. Also, couples cant say to relatives' Please have the kids for a week, we need to go off and have a nice 'adults-only' time! '.  Wouldnt that sound strange? All their relatives would wonder why they didn't want a  nice family holiday.  Swinging holidays realise this and put on excellent child care knowing that they wont get adults to come unless they have this service. I suspect that swinging is addictive -once you dip your toes in you probably cant stop.  I also dont think this was  general swinging week....i think it was highly exclusive with with people like PE being there. By exclusive invitation only... probably mingled in with investment opportunities (see Vigia group etc references). So you would have had to have money and be on an excusive guest list to go there on that particular week.  It was probably GM's first invitation of such an exclusive nature.

If so, then why was he playing tennis all the time?

And his tipsy pass at the Quiz Mistress Oochi Coochi can hardly be called swinging either, can it?

And as for Kate a swinger? Well, have you looked at her? A paragon of Motherhood, but a lecher, no

Portia wrote:

HelenMeg wrote:

tigger wrote:Hi Molly,
I think the name is invoked so often because it takes responsibility away from the T9. It went well in Greece and other MW holidays, so they expected the same here.
On top of that, I think they're trying to say MW is rather posh not at all like Butlins. So you'd expect NICE people to be there, not paedophile abductors who don't even dress very well. Tut, tut. None of them hear themselves talk do they? It really does sound as if MW is God, and all should be well and better than well.

And Stella, yes, you're right that being found out to be swingers would reflect on their job and status, but who is going to prove that? Anway, it's between consenting adults, but  I think a bit of spice like recreational drugs might be part of it as well. Alcohol, some cocaine, or perhaps  cannabis.
That might be proved and would be far more damaging to their careers.  
Why on earth couldn't they leave the children with relatives for a week and enjoy themselves to their heart's content? They could even pay the relatives to look after them. Taking the children on what is clearly only partly a 'family' holiday out of season seems daft.
Did they have quite as many children with them the previous holidays? And shy? And now I'm thinking of the Gaspars' statement.

People often think that 'swinger's would not go on holiday with their children. In fact, I think this is not the case. Swinger or adult themed holidays always are very good at the childcare side of things.  A group of adults will never be able to arrange for their kids to be with relatives - all at the same time. Much better to go somewhere who will lay on appropriate childcare. Also, couples cant say to relatives' Please have the kids for a week, we need to go off and have a nice 'adults-only' time! '.  Wouldnt that sound strange? All their relatives would wonder why they didn't want a  nice family holiday.  Swinging holidays realise this and put on excellent child care knowing that they wont get adults to come unless they have this service. I suspect that swinging is addictive -once you dip your toes in you probably cant stop.  I also dont think this was  general swinging week....i think it was highly exclusive with with people like PE being there. By exclusive invitation only... probably mingled in with investment opportunities (see Vigia group etc references). So you would have had to have money and be on an excusive guest list to go there on that particular week.  It was probably GM's first invitation of such an exclusive nature.

If so, then why was he playing tennis all the time?

And his tipsy pass at the Quiz Mistress Oochi Coochi can hardly be called swinging either, can it?

And as for Kate a swinger?  Well, have you looked at her? A paragon of Motherhood, but a lecher, no

Do you really honestly think they were there playing tennis ?  Tennis was the word they substituted for their  other activities. Do you really think that group of adults on a low peak off season holiday at the OC spent all their spare time having tennis lessons and playing on those courts?  Hopefully they can produce some photos, then.  Just for a moment, imagine this was an adult-themed holiday and whilst their kids were safely in creche, the adults were having fun of their own. Suddenly they have to be interviewed many times by the PJ / Police.  They need to account for many hours of time... well, yes - of course - we were playing tennis, having tennis lessons.  Great !!

It's a bit embarassing to read my own warblings more than two and a half years later. But how can one progress without discussion and other opinions. Most of all without more information.
At the time I wasn't aware of the highly unusual mix of people there and ignorant of many other facts besides.

Swinging theory for me is a useful rumour to spread if it's jolly obvious that MI5, Diplomatic corps, PR gurus and untold lawyers do not usually materialise to assist alleged victims of a crime.

No doubt the public - well at least those with more than room temperature I.Q. were going to wonder why. Spreading an embarrassing rumour might be one of the tactics to divert attention.
It might even be outlined in that bible of spin by the late Alistair McAlpine - The New Machiavelli.
There's a script for every situation, I'm sure.

tigger wrote:It's a bit embarassing to read my own warblings more than two and a half years later. But how can one progress without discussion and other opinions. Most of all without more information.
At the time I wasn't aware of the highly unusual mix of people there and ignorant of many other facts besides.

Swinging theory for me is a useful rumour to spread if it's jolly obvious that MI5, Diplomatic corps, PR gurus and untold lawyers do not usually materialise to assist alleged victims of a crime.

No doubt the public - well at least those with more than room temperature I.Q. were going to wonder why. Spreading an embarrassing rumour might be one of the tactics to divert attention.
It might even be outlined in that bible of spin by the late Alistair McAlpine - The New Machiavelli.
There's a script for every situation, I'm sure.

Its amazing to think about the difference between all of our original postings and thoughts about this case, and how they have evolved.  I remember posting on the 3 arguidos and holding entirely different views to those I hold now. Back then I was fooled by the  negligence 'myth' ...

Its good we have stuck it out for so long. Mind you, K and G have not let us forget it. Seems absurd they didn't just slink off into the background and let us all forget about this case. Hopefully this time next year, case will have been closed, with justice served.

HelenMeg wrote:

tigger wrote:It's a bit embarassing to read my own warblings more than two and a half years later. But how can one progress without discussion and other opinions. Most of all without more information.
At the time I wasn't aware of the highly unusual mix of people there and ignorant of many other facts besides.

Swinging theory for me is a useful rumour to spread if it's jolly obvious that MI5, Diplomatic corps, PR gurus and untold lawyers do not usually materialise to assist alleged victims of a crime.

No doubt the public - well at least those with more than room temperature I.Q. were going to wonder why. Spreading an embarrassing rumour might be one of the tactics to divert attention.
It might even be outlined in that bible of spin by the late Alistair McAlpine - The New Machiavelli.
There's a script for every situation, I'm sure.

Its amazing to think about the difference between all of our original postings and thoughts about this case, and how they have evolved.  I remember posting on the 3 arguidos and holding entirely different views to those I hold now. Back then I was fooled by the  negligence 'myth' ...

Its good we have stuck it out for so long. Mind you, K and G have not let us forget it. Seems absurd they didn't just slink off into the background and let us all forget about this case. Hopefully this time next year, case will have been closed, with justice served.

HelenMeg you have made many posts about swinging. I think it can be in doubt now what your opinions are.
But can I ask you why after Textusa latest blog you thought it was perhaps directed specifically at you ?

Just been reading up about Mark Warner's history & found this.

"
In 1981 Mark Chitty extended the company's operation to a year-round business when it launched its first summer holidays in Corfu with a programme of water-skiing, windsurfing, sailing and watersport tuition - offering that same house party atmosphere. It was the start of the now famous Mark Warner beach club concept.
Early bookings were no doubt boosted by the brochure designer who carelessly included an agency photograph of a group of attractive young ladies sitting playing cards. It was only when the brochure was printed that anyone noticed that none of the young ladies was wearing any clothes. "

Really???

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dantezebu wrote:

HelenMeg wrote:

tigger wrote:It's a bit embarassing to read my own warblings more than two and a half years later. But how can one progress without discussion and other opinions. Most of all without more information.
At the time I wasn't aware of the highly unusual mix of people there and ignorant of many other facts besides.

Swinging theory for me is a useful rumour to spread if it's jolly obvious that MI5, Diplomatic corps, PR gurus and untold lawyers do not usually materialise to assist alleged victims of a crime.

No doubt the public - well at least those with more than room temperature I.Q. were going to wonder why. Spreading an embarrassing rumour might be one of the tactics to divert attention.
It might even be outlined in that bible of spin by the late Alistair McAlpine - The New Machiavelli.
There's a script for every situation, I'm sure.

Its amazing to think about the difference between all of our original postings and thoughts about this case, and how they have evolved.  I remember posting on the 3 arguidos and holding entirely different views to those I hold now. Back then I was fooled by the  negligence 'myth' ...

Its good we have stuck it out for so long. Mind you, K and G have not let us forget it. Seems absurd they didn't just slink off into the background and let us all forget about this case. Hopefully this time next year, case will have been closed, with justice served.

HelenMeg you have made many posts about swinging. I think it can be in doubt now what your opinions are.
But can I ask you why after Textusa latest blog you thought it was perhaps directed specifically at you ?

Hi, yes, I do seem to be heavily inclined towards swinging, it is because it seems to be the only thing Ive every come across which makes everything else fit together. I'm sorry if I appear to keep posting about it - in fact I will make an effort from now not to... when I first found Textusa blog I was so happy because it made sense and I had so much respect for someone who backed up her views with facts and highly detailed explanations.  I spent a week or so reading through everything she'd posted and it removed all of my frustrations about the case, the bits of the jigsaw that didn't fit together etc.

Anyway, in answer to your question... I am a poster that is not at all like Textusa. I am not meticulous or detailed and inclined to post quite impatiently on the spur of the moment. I would be quite upset if I'd linked her blog with something that was not in keeping with her view / theory. I once did it when I first read about Stephen Birch... I then realised that Birch didn't make sense.  I just hoped I hadn't inadvertently done it again.  I don't want to undo any of her good work... so maybe  i was a little paranoid.

I also believe that there are 'golf complex / investment opportunities' linked into this case. Rothley Park Golf Cub seems to connect people together as does VIGIA, so I am open to other theories too - I just strongly suspect that something links all those who were at the OC on week commencing 28th April together - and it is not something they wish to be made public.

Gillyspot wrote:Just been reading up about Mark Warner's history & found this.

"
In 1981 Mark Chitty extended the company's operation to a year-round business when it launched its first summer holidays in Corfu with a programme of water-skiing, windsurfing, sailing and watersport tuition - offering that same house party atmosphere. It was the start of the now famous Mark Warner beach club concept.
Early bookings were no doubt boosted by the brochure designer who carelessly included an agency photograph of a group of attractive young ladies sitting playing cards. It was only when the brochure was printed that anyone noticed that none of the young ladies was wearing any clothes. "

Really???

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How strange!!

HelenMeg wrote:
Hi, yes, I do seem to be heavily inclined towards swinging, it is because it seems to be the only thing Ive every come across which makes everything else fit together.

I'm disinclined to go with the swinging theory because I can't see how it explains anything much at all, unless its an attempt to explain the T9's confused and contradictory statements. It could, of course, do this but it would only be plausible if Madeleine really was abducted and the T9 aren't involved in anything more sinister than swinging. If, however, Madeleine died and the parents hid her body I really don't think swinging is enough motivation for the T9 to agree to stay silent about it. It also doesn't explain the UK establishments involvement from the very start. I agree that band wagons get jumped on, particularly by politicians, but the establishment appears to have been involved right at the beginning, before the band wagon started.

Incidentally I think Text USA has a typically American prudish attitude towards sex and bases their beliefs on how the revelation of swinging would be treated by the British public on their own views rather than how the British would actually react, which I think would be to snigger, maybe tut a bit then instantly forget about it. It certainly wouldn't ruin careers as they claim.

Swinging not a big deal surely, but it might be if it involves someone who should,nt have been swinging, but would that be the reason for Madeleines death.

Does anyone know how well booked up is the MW, OC, PDL for this summer's season? (2014)

Given that the UK Met Police have said that the place is crawling with paedos, professional 'abductors', child snatching gypsies, burglators, stinky 'abusers' and any number of 'ne'er do wells' just waiting for all those families, with young white British kids, to arrive so they can carry out their nasty 'intentions'.

dare i add, even child 'murderers'?

As 'hinted' at by Met Commissioner BHH AND DCI Redwood of Operation Grange.

MW, OC, PDL 'bookings' must be 'up through the roof'..................or NOT!

jeanmonroe wrote:Does anyone know how well booked up is the MW, OC, PDL for this summer's season? (2014)

Given that the UK Met Police have said that the place is crawling with paedos, professional 'abductors', child snatching gypsies, burglators, stinky 'abusers' and any number of 'ne'er do wells' just waiting for all those families, with young white British kids, to arrive so they can carry out their nasty 'intentions'.

dare i add, even child 'murderers'?

As 'hinted' at by Met Commissioner BHH AND DCI Redwood of Operation Grange.

MW, OC, PDL 'bookings' must be 'up through the roof'..................or NOT!

Ha ha, Jean. What amused me was MO couldn't seem to recall JW very well during his rog - had probs recalling his name and if/where/ when they had spoken. Turned out they'd been chatting away on coach,plane, tennis court , resort. Then wadduyaknow - whilst 'sort of searching' for Madeleine in an isolated spot among half-built apartment blocks where the 'sort of' searchers were' sort of 'criss crossing' and generally bumping into each other in a confused milling around, an extraordinary coincidence occurs. In the ill-lit area of a building site - tah-dah, he spots a waterfront sports organiser he recognises from MW Lemnos Greece (the previous year's holiday) and instantly recalls his name - Nathan.

How amazing is that?