When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

The cleaning process (if power washed or machine washed) would be likely to be quite a long job. The majority of usage on the 2 tapas courts seems to be Mark Warner i.e. very few free time slots on the 3 booking sheets available. The courts are owned by the Ocean Club and cleaning maintenance would more than likely be carried out by the OC staff rather than the MW tennis pros (never known a club golf pro to mow the greens!). So, why not clean the courts on a MW change over day?

There are quite a few photos (current and historic) around of MW mini tennis - in every one, short rackets and yellow/red soft balls are being used. On the MW dedicated tennis courses, children from 6 years upwards use the short rackets and soft balls until they have progressed through 2 children's LTA awards/levels. Children from 3-5 years are catered for on Mini LTA Courses (i.e. courses designed and governed by the LTA) - there are no awards at this level, but you are not telling me they would ever be using 'full compression yellow balls', as the MW ad below describes 'normal' tennis balls. Mini LTA Course tennis (courses) and Mini Club tennis (childcare club activity) are for the same age band 3-5 years, and both are run by the MW tennis professionals in each of their resorts. There is no reason to assume that the short racket/soft ball LTA guidelines wouldn't be observed for both. IMO, THIS PHOTO WAS NOT TAKEN DURING A MW MINI CLUB TENNIS ACTIVITY SESSION.

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I agree that MBM looks the same build as she does in the play house/palm tree photos. (I still can't reconcile this MBM and the one in the Donegal Easter Monday egg rolling photo taken 3 weeks earlier). If the tennis photo is OK in terms of not having been photoshopped then it surely can't have been taken in the UK (temperature; and the Xmas 2006 MBM looks younger/smaller), which narrows the time frame. 

Why are we told that it was during a Mini Club activity, when all that needed to be said was: 'Here's a photo of Maddie helping collect balls after one of her dad's tennis games'? There are no other photos of MBM in the Mini Club that week (are there?). Not a single one of MBM and Ella out on the yellow catamaran (you'd want that for your album wouldn't you?) even though Tapas 7 members were on the beach at the time. Again, you're not telling me that parents weren't fully aware of the special sessions such as the sailing, which took place away from the usual club location. No photos of the high tea in the raised, covered area next to the tapas restaurant; no photos of the MBM with her favourite nanny; no photos of the cute sammy snake line arriving for tea; no photos of MBM and her new little friends together; NADA! And, where are all the activity items that MBM should have made during the week - wouldn't you think that these would have been produced for the press instead of the plate MBM made BEFORE she went on holiday for granny Healy. Where's the lobster picture; the handmade postcard (was it sent to granny?); the planet; the spaceship collage; the sand painting moon picture; the salt dough rocket; the alien mobile; etc; etc. 

IMO, the tennis photo was all that could be produced to say: 'Look, Madeleine did go to the Mini Club.' Just like the 'last photo' was produced to show that MBM was around on Thursday 3 May.

Apologies [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] if I've gone off topic - I realise that you're trying to tie down the 'when' of the photo. Can we rely on the tennis booking sheet for the court cleaning?

Skyrocket.

All I am trying to establish is whether it is 'water' on the court and if so, when was it possible for water to get on the court before mini tennis.


If it IS water and there was no court cleaning or rain before 10am for the mini tennis then it is reasonable to suggest that Kate is llying about the photo being taken at mini tennis.

My belief is that it was probably to place Madeleine alive on the Tuesday and the Last pic was to place her alive on Thursday and the playground pics to place her alive on Wednesday.

I don't believe in it being planned. Only if something happened to her earlier in the week AFTER these pics had been taken then they were carefully used to establish she was around.

ie Playground pics Saturday? Tennis pic Monday? Last pic Sunday?

Tony Bennett wrote:CMOMM member 'parapono', who is currently taking a short holiday in Praia da Luz, has just sent up these two pictures of the cleaning of the tennis courts:


PHOTO 1


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PHOTO 2


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Cleaning the tennis courts mid-March - isn't that off season?  Refreshing the colour by spray painting in preparation for the 2016 summer season?

Can we be sure this is not Stephen Birch with his state of the art patented all purpose subterranean body detector or ex-DCI Redwood moonlighting?

willowthewisp wrote:

Verdi wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:  Just noticed after all these years that it says Mini Tennis Grass time,so what's that all about?

Throwing foam rubber simulated tennis balls around I shouldn't wonder - hence mini-tennis/grass time.  Providing rain didn't stop play of course!

Might be a good start to ask Gerry and his brother in law when they compiled them onto a CD disc for the Portugal PJ after Alex Woolfall had scrutinised images from the couples camera?
Three wise Monkeys?

Timesonline - October 6, 2007

Dominic Kennedy

He met the couple for the first time at their new apartment. "They were behaving exactly as I thought someone in that situation would be," Mr Woolfall said. "They had not slept. They were trying to work out what to do that might help generate images of her. They were desperately keen to publicise her face."
 
The McCanns had photographs of Madeleine on their digital camera, which Mr Woolfall began transferring to a laptop computer. "I said to Kate, 'Let's try to identify pictures where her face is visible'. Downloading the images was a very difficult process for them. It was upsetting.
 
"They were trying to do two things at once: one, emotionally deal with what was actually, really happening to them; two, operate in some sort of logical way to help get her back."
 
Mr Woolfall transmitted the photographs to the Press Association in London, from where they were distributed to the media. The portfolio included the now famous image of Madeleine wearing a hat on a tennis court.
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No more need be said.

skyrocket wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - afternoon!


Perhaps someone could email the photo to someone who is qualified/experienced (one of these acrylic court installation/maintenance companys?) to give an opinion on the appearance of the court re: wetness. It's a very hard thing to pin down - the lack of background detail means that the photo could have been taken on one of the other 3 courts, at the Millenium site (or even, theoretically, elsewhere). 


IMHO, the tennis balls in the photo are a strong enough indicator that this is not a mini tennis session - which does suggest we are being misled by more than one of the persons involved that week.


However, we also have to bear Georgina's statement in mind: 


She relates it was one of the preferred activities of the McCann couple in that they had several lessons throughout the days and up to the date of the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine, it being that the child also had a class, on Tuesday, 1 May (10-11h00), that class [in which] she was among a group of children was conducted by the deponent.


So, even without the photo we have a witness placing MBM there on Tuesday morning. But, was it MBM or was she misled also?


Court 2, which shows the mini club session (although  'Adult Classic' also shown in the same hour slot), was booked by one/both of the Reaps (parents of missing 3 year old daughter H*****, on all the check-in sheets) from 9-10am, so the cleaning can't have been done then. The records clearly show both courts as being cleaned at 12.30 pm, which would be the most sensible time (warmest for drying; guests having lunch), if done during the week, although seems odd to take both courts out of action at the same time. But, IMO, the records (as appears the norm) seem to have been doctored (no pun intended!). So why would the court be wet at 10am on Tuesday, other than if it had rained? Jez Wilkins, only mentions being rain-delayed on the Wednesday. He played tennis with GM on Tuesday. Did it rain overnight/early morning on Tuesday? I'll have to look at the weather for that week again, more closely.


I don't believe that the photo is of MBM at Mini Club tennis on Tuesday 1 May, 10 -11am. 


I still feel that the storyline/tennis photo could be to specifically back up the attendance at Mini Club but, yes, as you say, it may well be to tie MBM to a specific time/place - Tuesday/Mini Tennis.

Afternoon Skyrocket :)

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As mentioned before re Georgina Jackson I stayed at Tuesday being a time that Maddie was seen but on reflection when I returned to that sytaement I realised it was non specific and likely just an acknoledgement of the group which Maddie was supposed to be in.

Catriona was with them and as opposed to what some think it was probably half an hour of hitting balls (whether full size of sponge) and no real reason that Georgina would have acknowledged or remembered them by name.

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It would be interesting to know what the 'cleaning' consisted of and whether someone with the expertise could guess on the watermark.  I don't believe anyone can say 100% if it was water but that brings me to another issue.

I have been holding back for a few years on asking this question regarding the water because I didn't have the weather reports from PdL.  Only from Faro and in the past few days I have the reports which indicate no precipitation on Monday night or Tuesday and have also studied some videos that we taken in Alvor during that week which would have had the same weather...

These are the videos which show Monday and Tuesday along with the Faro reports for those times.

The video weather appears to match that as you can see in the Faro reports.

It is a Windsurfing competition from Monday (registrations) to Saturday (Finals) and according to the schedule the competition starts at around 11am or after.

The second video shows clear before the competition with clouds after. As per the weather report)

Formular windsurfing Grand Prix Portimao Portugal Day 1  APRIL 30th 2007




MONDAY WEATHER FARO

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Formular windsurfing Grand Prix Portimao Portugal Day 2 MAY 1st 2007




TUESDAY MAY 1st WEATHER

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It was only after checking all of the above along with the PdL Weather forecast that I felt confident enough to make this post with the knowledge there was likely no rainfall Monday or Tuesday morning before the mini tennis.

What I find interesting, particularly after 'confirming' as best that I can that there was no rain before Tuesday morning I was curious why the ONLY reference to rain was Kate claiming rain on Tuesday   Is it possible that if she released this photo SPECIFICALLY to place Maddie alive on Tuesday but maybe the photo was taken after a court cleaning on eg Monday and remembering the court was wet when she took the photo preempted the explanation of it being wet by saying it rained on Tuesday....

That may be a little too far contrived, for me anyway..but I mention anyway :)

canada12 wrote:The reason why the tennis balls photo looks all wrong is because it IS all wrong.
I'm not an expert photoshopper but I did a quick edit job and positioned the child's head where it looks more natural.You can see if you remove the "hunch" in the back, you have a child standing in a much more realistic and natural position than in the photo that was published. If you temporarily accept that the tennis balls photo is a composite the question then becomes why present such an awkward photo to the world?
1. A bad and rushed photoshopping job?
2. The child standing upright looks much older and taller than the Madeleine presented to the world?
3. Hunched makes the child look smaller and shorter?
Answers on a postcard....
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Here's the original so you can compare:
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(Sorry I don't mean to disrupt this thread which is about when the photo was taken, not what it shows.. mods please move this and my other posting above to a more appropriate area if you feel it's off-topic - thanks)

IMO The reason she is hunched is because she's gripping the top ball with her chin so she doesn't drop them.

I have found something which suggests that children used different rackets and balls;

Tipsy tennis is highly entertaining and exactly as it sounds. Taking place in the evening, it involves playing tennis after a few drinks using children’s rackets and balls.
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Some good pics showing small children using yellow and red balls. All with trainers on also. Sandals are a trip hazard and unlikely to be allowed. 

HiDeHo wrote:

Tony Bennett wrote:

Nina wrote:

Just noticed after all these years that it says Mini Tennis Grass time, so what's that all about?

Probably it means that any mini-tennis session took place in a grassy area (like the 'parachute' session the day before)...

...which, in essence, means that all claims made about the mini-tennis session and the Tennis Balls Photo are...

...a complete load of rubbish...

Mini tennis was allocated to Court 2 and also the police questioned Rachael about which court they played on (she got it wrong).

You may note also that she claims it was Thursday but it was the SHARKS that played on Thursday, so when she says it was the last time she saw Maddie , does she mean Thursday or Tuesday when Madeleine's group played.?

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Rachael Mampilly Oldfield
1578 “I think you’ve already covered this one, when was the last time you saw Madeleine”?
Reply “Erm it was when she was having a tennis lesson, in the morning yeah, about probably between ten thirty and eleven on the morning of the third of May”.
00.41.13 1578 “At the tennis courts”?
Reply “Yes at the tennis courts”.
1578 “Any particular court”?
Reply “Erm it was the one, if you were standing facing the courts, it’s the one on the left I think”.
1578 “Got your exhibit here, number 101, are they the tennis courts”?
Reply Yes, it was, it was that one, there are only two courts there”.
1578 Okay”.
Reply So it would have been this one here, where the children were”.
1578 “What’s that one there and what is that”?
Reply “Erm that’s the, I think that’s probably, well the outside bit of the, of the crèche overlooked the tennis courts and so maybe that’s that, that’s not quite sort of accurate I don’t think that, that diagram, the crèche was here and there’s an outside area here and the indoor, in, inside of it there”.

Therefore how thorough or relaxed were these sessions organised and completed.  Were kids names just added to a list and if they pitched up or not, nobody was that fussed because accurate registers were not kept.  So if little 'Tommy' says he was there, it's just taken on face value little 'Tommy' was there... Until of course you ask little 'Tommy's' mum all about it and she has to guess the answers because really little Tommy was elsewhere.

skyrocket wrote:So, had Gerry spoken to Bridget or not??!!

Thats a tough call to decide which one of them to believe 

Tony Bennett wrote:CMOMM member 'parapono', who is currently taking a short holiday in Praia da Luz, has just sent up these two pictures of the cleaning of the tennis courts:


PHOTO 1


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PHOTO 2


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It´s cleaning after being closed for winter.

The sun beds round the Tapas pool also desperately needed a start of season clean.

You might like to ask about the bougainvillea.

Verdi wrote:
Mr Woolfall transmitted the photographs to the Press Association in London, from where they were distributed to the media. The portfolio included the now famous image of Madeleine wearing a hat on a tennis court.
----------

No more need be said.

Whoa. Had to do a literal double take there. Yet more admission that photos were sent to the press but not even given to the PJ. In this case they're even saying it was done in one fell swoop. Two for me, one for you - the brass of it.

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This adds strength to the argument that mini tennis should've had soft balls - even Crimewatch didn't get that wrong!

Also found this useful perspective picture from this useful page, which also dates one of the previously posted images to May 2007:

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Apologies to HideHo if this post doesn't answer the initial question - my response to that would be that I definitely see wetness, but I'm not well enough placed to debate how or why that's the case.

Not having access to the original photo I played with the contrast/brightness on a couple of sample photos. In both cases the 'water mark' is very clear.

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I'm not convinced there's evidence of sunburn here, taking into account the light direction, as well as the contrast in even the Mail photo (seems to have gone through a filter, even if only a default kind on particular the camera). The arms are darker under the sleeve and elbow as you'd expect - the only 'things that should not be' (in my opinion only) are the small mark on her leg, and the mark near the top of her forearm. This mark is most notable because there is no reason a shadow would be cast in such a fashion (you can't argue it's from a nearby tree as if it were, we'd see the same dappled effect all over). So this does seem to be a real mark of an odd shape (too large to be a thumb print, too small to be fingermarks).

Do you mean the mark on her calf, April28th?

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Yes, as highlighted here. The calf mark is probably just a bruise from playing, the forearm I can't work out, it's a weird shape.

ETA - I blew the forearm area up and drew out the shape as best I could without literally inventing an image of my own - an odd shape as I said before. Almost looks like a crude star or a crude letter K?

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Sorry to rain on your parade  but is the consensus suggesting that wetness on the tennis courts, be it the result of rain or cleaning would start to dry in a margin between green and red?  Rain or washing would cover the whole court area, not just the inner green area or the outer red area so why is it drying/draining along the edge of the green only?

It's not unusual following rainfall or watering for areas to dry out gradually at a different rate but this normally occurs in patches, not as suggested in this photograph.

Or am I missing a vital clue..

Verdi wrote:Sorry to rain on your parade  but is the consensus suggesting that wetness on the tennis courts, be it the result of rain or cleaning would start to dry in a margin between green and red?  Rain or washing would cover the whole court area, not just the inner green area or the outer red area so why is it drying/draining along the edge of the green only?

It's not unusual following rainfall or watering for areas to dry out gradually at a different rate but this normally occurs in patches, not as suggested in this photograph.

Or am I missing a vital clue..

The very first time I saw this water line I actually thought that it was a watermark on the photograph and didn't think it was on the tennis court.

Nina wrote:

Verdi wrote:Sorry to rain on your parade  but is the consensus suggesting that wetness on the tennis courts, be it the result of rain or cleaning would start to dry in a margin between green and red?  Rain or washing would cover the whole court area, not just the inner green area or the outer red area so why is it drying/draining along the edge of the green only?

It's not unusual following rainfall or watering for areas to dry out gradually at a different rate but this normally occurs in patches, not as suggested in this photograph.

Or am I missing a vital clue..

The very first time I saw this water line I actually thought that it was a watermark on the photograph and didn't think it was on the tennis court.

Now that's what I call sensible thinking - far more logical for it to be an anomaly in the photograph than a freak of nature.  Who knows where this photograph originated, where it's been since,  how many hands/machines it passed through since hitting the headlines.

Verdi wrote:

Nina wrote:

Verdi wrote:Sorry to rain on your parade  but is the consensus suggesting that wetness on the tennis courts, be it the result of rain or cleaning would start to dry in a margin between green and red?  Rain or washing would cover the whole court area, not just the inner green area or the outer red area so why is it drying/draining along the edge of the green only?

It's not unusual following rainfall or watering for areas to dry out gradually at a different rate but this normally occurs in patches, not as suggested in this photograph.

Or am I missing a vital clue..

The very first time I saw this water line I actually thought that it was a watermark on the photograph and didn't think it was on the tennis court.

Now that's what I call sensible thinking - far more logical for it to be an anomaly in the photograph than a freak of nature.  Who knows where this photograph originated, where it's been since,  how many hands/machines it passed through since hitting the headlines.

The water mark doesn't appear to pass through the child's  body though.

JRP wrote:

Verdi wrote:

Nina wrote:

Verdi wrote:Sorry to rain on your parade  but is the consensus suggesting that wetness on the tennis courts, be it the result of rain or cleaning would start to dry in a margin between green and red?  Rain or washing would cover the whole court area, not just the inner green area or the outer red area so why is it drying/draining along the edge of the green only?

It's not unusual following rainfall or watering for areas to dry out gradually at a different rate but this normally occurs in patches, not as suggested in this photograph.

Or am I missing a vital clue..

The very first time I saw this water line I actually thought that it was a watermark on the photograph and didn't think it was on the tennis court.

Now that's what I call sensible thinking - far more logical for it to be an anomaly in the photograph than a freak of nature.  Who knows where this photograph originated, where it's been since,  how many hands/machines it passed through since hitting the headlines.

The water mark doesn't appear to pass through the child's  body though.

Oh hec didn't want this to be an argument but on a magnification to 250 on my screen it does 

Nina wrote:

JRP wrote:

Verdi wrote:

Nina wrote:

Verdi wrote:Sorry to rain on your parade  but is the consensus suggesting that wetness on the tennis courts, be it the result of rain or cleaning would start to dry in a margin between green and red?  Rain or washing would cover the whole court area, not just the inner green area or the outer red area so why is it drying/draining along the edge of the green only?

It's not unusual following rainfall or watering for areas to dry out gradually at a different rate but this normally occurs in patches, not as suggested in this photograph.

Or am I missing a vital clue..

The very first time I saw this water line I actually thought that it was a watermark on the photograph and didn't think it was on the tennis court.

Now that's what I call sensible thinking - far more logical for it to be an anomaly in the photograph than a freak of nature.  Who knows where this photograph originated, where it's been since,  how many hands/machines it passed through since hitting the headlines.

The water mark doesn't appear to pass through the child's  body though.

Oh hec didn't want this to be an argument but on a magnification to 250 on my screen it does 

Just confirmed this myself...ironically I only noticed when looking from my phone screen and zooming in, ive literally never noticed that the pattern persists over her tshirt before, even when playing with photoshop! 

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Thanks for that info, not a bruise then.

Here's a reasonably good res version of the "fixed head" tennis balls pic I posted earlier. I didn't alter anything below the neckline of her t-shirt and the tennis balls, so the lower part of the t-shirt is the same as it has always been. I don't see the "watermark" going through her body or clothing. I see a few shadows on creases in the t-shirt fabric, but not a defined watermark line like the watermark line on the tennis court. You can right-click this photo to save it to your computer and enlarge it in a graphics program.

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ETA - it would be extremely useful if someone had captured photos of the tennis court's red area to see whether that wiggly line scuff behind her is present in other pictures of the court.

IMO the tennis balls pic has been taken after a period of light rain. Reasons;

1. As already pointed out, heavy rain or intentional watering/cleaning would likely to leave pools which would be evident. We see the green surface as being damp which is in keeping with light rain in the process of drying up.

2. The green area being wet and the red area dry is possibly due to the different absorbency/porosity properties of the painted surfaces. The red surface may absorb water more readily and becomes dry before the green surface does.

3. The red surface may be hotter in the sun or broken cloud conditions, and dries quicker. The water margin is closer to the warmer red surface (also perhaps more absorbent) and so water dries quicker on the strip of green surface adjacent to the red surface, which creates the effect of dampness receding back from where the 2 surfaces meet.

IF the above is plausible, then perhaps MBM (if the image is genuinely of her) has seized an opportunity to run onto an empty court, or before an adult game resumes, following a period of light rain. Her clothing would suggest it was an overall warm day.

Just my thoughts.