EU and democracy

Once again the EU leaders flexing their muscles against Greece?
90% of the previous bailout money was paid to the Bankers of which a large percentage were German Banks?

What we do not know at the present moment is how many of the Greek Banks are privately owned and by who, as the supposed next bail out fifty percent is to be paid to the Banks 43 Billion Euros and the Greek Government to have 21.5 billion, leaving one quarter to restructure?
So on the probable last two bail out of funds the Banks received the largest trance of funds, whilst the pensions are cut to normal people and the taxes raised for every one, VAT, Corporation Tax, Gas, Electricity, the essentials that a person needs to live on prices raised?
Remember the previous Countries who had held ballots on the Euro Rejected it and had to be Bribed with funds from the Euro Leaders to re-ballot their people to accept the Euro,Democracy at it's best?

Now the EU want 50 Billion Euros worth of the Country's capital to be held as "Privatisation for future profits for whom the Banks" as they will have to sell the holdings in shares at a later stage, there bye the Capital they once held will be liquidated to their capitalist friends!    
So the Greeks get 43 Billion Euros of which the 50 Billion is held as security, so what Actually happened to the 7 Billion Euros excess held as capital?
If the majority of Banks in Greece are privately owned and the State takes over these Banks that have failed, the State(Greek Government) is liable for any future failures?
Genius ECB and IMF, EU leaders?

It's a robbery of all Greece's public owned assets.

The people who should be in prison are the ones who gave Greece so much money in the first place knowing that they will never be able to repay it and be forced to eventually sell the family silver to private hands.

The unelected and unaccountable international banks need exposing. These people create money from nothing and use it to weld power over the rest of us.

The joke according to the papers today is that the UK is expected to cough up £850 million to bail Greece out.

Where do we get the money from seeing as we also are in debt? Borrow it?

Who are we all in debt to?

BlueBag wrote:It's a robbery of all Greece's public owned assets.

The people who should be in prison are the ones who gave Greece so much money in the first place knowing that they will never be able to repay it and be forced to eventually sell the family silver to private hands.

The unelected and unaccountable international banks need exposing. These people create money from nothing and use it to weld power over the rest of us.

The joke according to the papers today is that the UK is expected to cough up £850 million to bail Greece out.

Where do we get the money from seeing as we also are in debt? Borrow it?

Who are we all in debt to?

The criminals that run the show i would imagine.

Greece's application to join the EU was a fudge. It was fraudulent and encouraged by bankers.

Germany and its French poodle are holding on with their dentures.

Hi Bluebag, thank you for your reply,I'll bet that the fat cat bureaucrats and MEPS are not surviving on 700 Euros per month?
Why are the Greek people allowed or cannot stay in the EU as members but opt out of the Euro currency as the UK has done to trade as a member and vote on EU issues?
The Euro must have been dreamt up by the Federal Reserve Bank to work along the American Dollar as in the 50 states in America to have a foot hold in Europe Banking institutions?
People in the UK think the Bank of England is independent, but it is owned by the USA, Federal Reserve, Eddie George incarcerated in prison over the Dodgy sale of the Queens Gold by Gordon Brown and Tony Blair resignation as Prime Minister?
Also remember Gordon got involved with the Madeleine McCann disappearance and ended up in a dodgy deal in Portugal, where bye their own former Prime Minister is facing possible fraudulent activity in the sale of shipping ports?

You`d have to have a degree in European history to understand European Finances.  I suppose it all started with Kaiser Bill - blame it on him being born with a gammy arm - and his subsequent psychomania, the first world war, the reparations the Germans never paid back after that war, Hitler`s rise to power on the back of that depression, his scavenging of many European countries/World War II, the Treaty of Versailles, much of Germany`s debts to other European Countries being written off, their economy grows, the EU is formed, the German banks lend money to other European Countries including Greece (which they`ll never be able to pay back).  And here we are a century later with the Germans controlling everything once more.  It worries me.

Well it seems as though the IMF are not playing along with the proposed offer from the EU Ministers with regard to the latest Greece bailout plan, more holes in their plan than a block of cheese after passing maturity tests?
What a charade of incompetent bureaucrats feasting off the backs of the people in society!
Note in all of the articles who is obtaining the vast amount of funds, the Banks who offered the loans or procured how the funds would be utilised, "not our fault governor, we just facilitated the deals"it's their fault for not paying us back?
Why the "Private Banks cannot take their share of responsibility"because they have to pay the piper,German Banks who lent them the Money?
Do not forget it was the German's who were the first to break "Official GDP rates" on expenditure, where they forced out?
One rule for one, another for Greece, Democracy eh Angela, Hollande?

Greece, the TTIP and the driving force behind the betrayal of the Greek People
Posted by GPD on July 14, 2015



On the 3rd of July I pointed out in:  Germany, Greece, India and South Africa. TPP Versus BRICS,  that  “there is more at stake here than the IMF and EU loans, or even oil and gas pipelines, because it also involves the TPP and the TTIP, which I elaborated on HERE and HERE.” Put simply it means companies like Monsanto having total control over food supplies with patents on seeds and plants and farmland handed over to corporate farming. Companies like Nestle owning all water resources, as in dams and rivers. Big Pharma not only limiting but eradicating affordable medicine. The freedom that we now have on the Internet being severely restricted. Environmental laws and minimum wage laws over ridden by corporate courts who can sue any country for loss of income due to these laws.
Who was the driving force behind Greece becoming part of the Euro Zone hiding Greece’s outstanding debt and walking away with a substantial profit? Goldman Sachs.  Who was instrumental in lining US senator’s pockets in order that “Fast Track”could be passed in order for the TPP and in turn the TTIP, a “secret document” without voters knowledge or approval, could be passed? Goldman Sachs.  The bankruptcy of Greece was planned long ago so that they would have no resistance when it came to to implement the TTIP agreements.
Not only has Greece now lost their sovereignty and is expected to sell off all their assets, much as Ukraine is now doing under the Victoria Nuland led Oligarchs coup regime, but Greece will now automatically become part of the TTIP “free trade,” read sell out the whole of Europe to the Corporate Fascist Octopus Squid.
I also pointed out that ” Such agreements have consequences that go way beyond the current debt crisis in Greece or even the route of pipelines. The nature of Democracy and Nation State Sovereignty is at stake. BRICS so far, is not part of these agreements, which is in line with Putin’s view of a multi-polar vision of the world as opposed to a uni-polar vision as advocated by Washington. “
In the long term, Greece would be far better off leaving the EU, joining the Eurasian bloc and becoming part of the BRICS development bank. BRICS, so far as I know, has no intention of implementing TPP or TTIP agreements.
Dublin Eileen from Max Keiser has also pointed out the trap that has been set for Greece in
  Greek Trojan Horse Hides TTIP Negotiation

 “While we have been so focused on Greece the 10th round of TTIP talks are under way with the European Commission . They are taking place in Brussells from the 13-17 July.
The Greek crisis has served to bring into full awareness that the EU institutions are completely undemocratic and have no respect for democracy. They bend only to the will of kleptocratic corporatists. The EU Commission, of all the institutions, is the most undemocratic and least trustworthy.”

And again I would urge all voters living in any BRICS country to find out what their politicians and their political parties have to say about any type of TPP or TTIP agreement and whether they would support these kind of “free trade” policies in the future? Again I would like to quote from   Eric Zuesse who has aptly described described the TTP and the TTIP as:
“.. ’trade deals’ which are actually going to transfer regulatory sovereignty away from elected government officials as at present (who are answerable to voters), and instead move these powers into the hands of international corporate cartels, which will have the final say over the safety of our air, water, automobiles, and other products, and of the environment, and of workers’ rights (and which regulations will become answerable instead to the controlling stockholders in those mega-corporations). Mega-corporations will set international standards, which none of the signatory nations within the TPP and TTIP will be legally able to exceed without paying heavy penalties to those corporations for violating those corporations’ ‘rights’ under these trade-deals. The current ability of individual nations to establish their own standards will disappear, except to the extent that international corporations allow.”
With the EU deal, Greece will not only loose it’s  sovereignty and no longer be a democratic nation, but through the TTIP it will also be absorbed into corporate cartels.

Timeo Danaos and all that - I understand when Greece entered the Euro the books did not quite balance, either the other countries should have had a better look or the entry requirements were somewhat elastic. 

But now it seems that Germany has achieved what it failed to do in WWII, they now appear to own the place. One doesn't need the IMF to work out that Greece cannot repay the loans, the country had some 11 million people in 2013, not a lot more now I expect. 

But they've had this trouble before when the monies from the Delian league were transferred to Athens:

In 454 BC, the Athenian general Pericles moved the Delian League's treasury from Delos to Athens, allegedly to keep it safe from Persia. However, Plutarch indicates that many of Pericles' rivals viewed the transfer to Athens as usurping monetary resources to fund elaborate building projects. Athens also switched from accepting ships, men and weapons as dues from league members, to only accepting money.
The new treasury established in Athens was used for many purposes, not all relating to the defence of members of the league. It was from tribute paid to the league that Pericles set to building the Parthenon on the Acropolis, replacing an older temple, as well as many other non-defense related expenditures. The Delian League was turning from an alliance into an empire.
-- more ---

Origins of the Delian League

After the second defeat of the Persians, all of Greece rejoiced. Together, they had overcome the mightiest empire the world had ever seen.
Fired up with Panhellenic pride, the Athenians spearheaded an alliance to take vengeance on the Persians. This alliance was called the Delian League. Islands and city-states across the Aegean built ships, armed crews and sent lavish donations to the League's treasury on the island of Delos. Always afraid of a slave revolt at home, Sparta declined to participate. Driving the Persians off was one thing, but picking a fight with them was quite another.


The Delian League grew rich off this plunder. Working together, they would teach the Persians never to mess with Greece again. Yet this giddy Panhellenism did not last forever. As the years stretched on, the members of the Delian League began to wonder if Persia had not been punished enough. The constant warfare was exhausting. People wanted to return to their normal lives.
But Athens would have none of it. As the head of the Delian League, Athens had become incredibly rich and powerful, establishing colonies and garrisons across the Aegean and Asia Minor. Moreover, the war was just the thing the young democracy needed to cement itself. As we've seen, political power usually came with military usefulness. With the offensive in Persia, suddenly all those poor citizens could make an important contribution to the war effort. They could row triremes, and in a month of rowing they could earn more than in a year of farming.
The other members of the League were less gung-ho about the whole arrangement. Yet they also did not want the angry Persians to be able to come back and take revenge. So, instead of providing ships and crews, they started just providing gold, food or raw materials and letting the Athenians take care of building and running the navy. And just like that, the states who had just fought for their freedom from Persia were now paying tribute to the Athenian empire.

This fact was not lost on the Athenians, least of all on a leading statesman of the time,  Pericles. 
For starters, Pericles decided to hold the dissolving Delian League together by force. Though the Persians posed no further threat, League members were still expected to pay their dues. The logic went something like this: 'If you thought the Persian Navy was scary, you know very well how scary the Athenian Navy is... after all, you pay for it.'

Pericles wanted Athens to be built back to her previous glory.
The League members were still paying for protection. Only now, it was not the protection of a united League against a common enemy but rather the sort of protection one pays the Mafia for - just on a grander scale. 'That's a nice city you got there ... be a shame if someone were to kill everyone and burn it to the ground.'

With the fiction of the Delian League out of the way, Pericles raided the treasury at Delos and brought it home to Athens. Now he had something to work with. Flush with cash from the treasury, Pericles rebuilt all the temples of Athens. To return beauty and grandeur to the Acropolis, he commissioned the Parthenon, with its huge golden statue of Athena. He also built a new meeting hall for the General Assembly as well as several other public buildings.

Goldman Sachs Faces Lawsuit Over Role Played in Greek Debt Debacle
Goldman Sachs, the Great Vampire Squid that helped oligarchs and corrupt politicians hide the debt central bankers say the Greek people owe, faces legal action over the role it played in the financial crisis.
from The European Union Times: 
Goldman Sachs, the Great Vampire Squid that helped oligarchs and corrupt politicians hide the debt central bankers say the Greek people owe, faces legal action over the role it played in the financial crisis.
The investment bank worked behind the scenes to ensure Greece followed strict Maastricht rules for eurozone membership, according to a former Goldman banker who advised indebted governments on recovering losses made from complex transactions with banks.
The swaps hid the true extent of the country’s outstanding debt and resulted in a hefty profit for Goldman Sachs — around $500 million — a figure disputed by the bank.
Jaber George Jabbour, a former Goldman employee who designed swaps told the Greek government in a formal letter that it could “right historical wrongs as part of (its) plan to reduce Greece’s debt,” according to a reported published today by The Independent.
Currency swaps are long-maturity, over-the-counter derivatives in which parties exchange long-term interest payments in different currencies. In the case of Greece, the Goldman devised swaps were used to disguise the actual scale of debt.
In March, 2012 Bloomberg reported:
The Goldman Sachs transaction swapped debt issued by Greece in dollars and yen for euros using an historical exchange rate, a mechanism that implied a reduction in debt… It also used an off-market interest-rate swap to repay the loan. Those swaps allow counterparties to exchange two forms of interest payment, such as fixed or floating rates, referenced to a notional amount of debt.
The trading costs on the swap rose because the deal had a notional value of more than 15 billion euros, more than the amount of the loan itself, said a former Greek official with knowledge of the transaction who asked not to be identified because the pricing was private. The size and complexity of the deal meant that Goldman Sachs charged proportionately higher trading fees than for deals of a more standard size and structure.
Instead of investigating and prosecuting Goldman, EU apparatchiks ignored the scandal.
“It’s hard to dispute that the Greek/Goldman deal should have come under the scrutiny of a financial authority or a prosecutor, but a judicial inquiry was never launched in the EU. There was mention of a Federal reserve investigation in February 2010, but it has gone silent. It’s not crazy to assume there was a cover up (willful, as opposed to gross, negligence), at a very high level,”Pater Tenebrarum wrote in January, 2012.
Goldman and Financial Predators Making Billions Crashing Economies
The high-octane vampire squid also profited handsomely on the subprime crisis in the United States.
In 2010 it stood accused of defrauding investors by hiding conflicts of interest in mortgage investments it sold as the housing market crumbled. It then bet against the toxic subprime mortgage securities sold to investors.
The economic environment that caused the financial crisis and allowed Goldman Sachs to loot and pillage was engineered by the Federal Reserve when it encouraged a massive housing bubble to form between 2002 to 2007.
“The blame is shared between a Wall Street Cabal and some government officials who unwittingly or knowingly executed the Cabal’s agenda and continue to empower them and protect them,” explains the Economic Predictions Research Project.
The Wall Street Cabal dominates the US government, treasury, congress, and federal reserve banks through their lobbying arm the Financial Services Roundtable ([You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] The cabal consist of the largest investment banks and financial conglomerates, including Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, Citibank and JP Morgan. Securities insurance companies like AIG, MBIA, AMBAC and the top three credit rating agencies including Moody’s, Standard & Poor’s and Fitch.
Congress and presidents have made certain this massive and unprecedented swindle continues.
Their partners were prominent academics and ex-Wall Street executives who worked for the government and protected their agenda. These people were appointed by US Presidents including Reagan, Bush Senior, Clinton, Bush and Obama to top government positions, in part as a payback for campaign contribution by some of these Wall Street firms. Some of these government officials unwittingly empowered the cabal and some took deliberate actions to bailout Wall Street and later protected them from prosecution.
The omnipresent power of the financial cabal went on full display in Greece as Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras submitted to European central banks and creditors despite the result of a snap poll by Bridging Europe that shows 79% of respondents stating they are against the an additional bailout proposal.
Minions of the financial elite were jubilant over the betrayal.
“The revolutionary moment has fizzled,” said Mark Medish, who served as a top official in the Treasury Department and the National Security Council under President Bill Clinton. “In effect, the no vote would be turning into a yes.”
Source
Read More @ The European Union Times.net

Hi Joss,
The first release of funds to Greece of a proposed 7 Billion Euros and who are first in line for the funds, the IMF, ECB and corrupt cohorts, truly confounding, that the Greeks have to pay the previous creditors first, then have to raise the tax rates for thousands of businesses in VAT payments rates of 77%? from 13-23%
So where is the business to raise the funds by raising the costs to the purchaser, who have restrictions placed on access of their funds, choking the economy, genius intellects at their finest?
What a corrupt EU clan/club, run by American corporations plundering the wealth from countries throughout the continents, to capitulate their existence and forced to become subjects of their capitalist system? 
It makes you think who really did win the Two World wars that were fought" or is that what they want to repeat with their constant insistence to create havoc throughout the Middle East, so that they can control who or what is left of the countries that would be decimated?
One thing for certain you will not find the Elite Echelons putting on battle fatigues, safe in their underground bunkers paid for by the public for their protection!?

willowthewisp wrote:It makes you think who really did win the Two World wars that were fought"

WWII had a number of objectives.

One of them was the dismantling of the British Empire and it's replacement by an American empire.

A different kind of global fascism.

It wasn't the black and white story we've been fed since 1945.

It will all end in tears.



All the people killed in the Wars and for what - for a bunch of  liberal luvvies to effectively hand Great Britain to them on a plate. 

I fervently hope that before the next election someone will come along with some real strength and pull us out of the mire.  It wont happen though.

Vote NO - PLEASE  -  IF and when there is a referendum.

willowthewisp wrote:Hi Joss,
The first release of funds to Greece of a proposed 7 Billion Euros and who are first in line for the Funds, the IMF,ECB and corrupt cohorts, truly confounding, that the Greeks have to pay the previous creditors first, then have to raise the tax rates for thousands of business's in VAT payments rates of 77%? from 13-23%
So where is the business to raise the funds by raising the costs to the purchaser, who have restrictions placed on access of their funds, choking the economy, genius intellects at their finest?
What a corrupt EU clan / club, run by American Corporations plundering the wealth from countries throughout the continents, to capitulate their existence and forced to become subjects of there capitalist system? 
It makes you think who really did win the Two World wars that were fought" or is that what they want to repeat with their constant insistence to create havoc throughout the Middle East, so that they can control who or what is left of the countries that would be decimated?
One thing for certain you will not find the Elite Echelons putting on Battle fatigues, safe in their underground bunkers paid for by the public for their protection!?

Hi willowthewisp, Exactly. They won't place their lives on the line, but create their fake wars so that others will die for their gain, and our children's young lives mean nothing to them. It is an evil and corrupt system and we have to get back control over our own destinies, only we the people can make a difference.
I read this article the other day and thought it was rather apt as to how a lot of people are feeling.

(Quote)
The politicians and bankers tend to lie very often! So if they tell you they’re trying to solve your problem you have to ask, “From where did the problem arise in the first place?” How is it that year after year the politicians carefully and diligently steer our collective boat of destiny ever nearer to the rapids of destruction?”
Please remember that the government, backed by the banking elite, who after all OWN the governments, GET EXACTLY WHAT THEY PAY FOR, if not it would not be a very good bargain, would it, and they would change the system.
So when you ask, “Why don’t they ever change the system?” then now you know. The agenda rolls along, the plans go ahead. You become poorer. They become richer and you do nothing because you are worked to death and are too tired following the “agenda”.

I'm not very good at this but it seems to me that Greece will never, ever be able to repay the money now being lent to them again. 

If we can work that out, I would think the lenders have done so too. So is the object of the exercise simply to set an example to other wobbly economies?

tigger wrote:I'm not very good at this but it seems to me that Greece will never, ever be able to repay the money now being lent to them again. 

If we can work that out, I would think the lenders have done so too. So is the object of the exercise simply to set an example to other wobbly economies?

Yes, that and Asset Stripping of course.

When it's the EU doing it it's called ummmm...democracy.

Socialist Left wing in Portugal win 50.7% in elections, but cannot be allowed to form a Government under the present EU rules, so democracy in the EU is alive and well under the Merkel dictatorship?