Religion and the McCanns

by **tigger** 24.03.13 8:13

Starting with:

McCannfiles.com:

MASS PRAYER
With the bumbling Portuguese police getting nowhere, terror-struck Kate McCann turned to all she had left: divine intervention.
Five hours after Madeleine went missing, she tried to mobilise a mass prayer at 3am.
First she telephoned her friend Father Paul Seddon, the priest who had married her and Gerry in 1998, and then her best friend Michelle back in the UK.
'I needed her to get her large Catholic family praying too,' said Mrs McCann, who had already been on her knees in her bedroom, 'begging God and Our Lady to protect Madeleine and help us find her'.
Unsurprisingly, her friend Michelle was asleep and her partner Jon, who answered the phone, was at first reluctant to wake her.
Mrs McCann said: 'Poor Jon - I don't think he could quite get his brain in gear for a moment or two. "No one's listening" I wept. "Nothing's happening".' After arranging the mass prayer, Mrs McCann could not sleep, but her husband told her: 'Kate, we need to rest.'

3.06.54 am Kate calls Michelle and Jon (5 seconds)
3.07.38 am Kate calls Jon Corner (3 seconds)
3.07.57 am Kate calls Michelle’s cellphone (3 seconds)
3.08.33 am Kate calls Michelle and Jon (3 seconds
3.09.05 am Kate calls Michelle and Jon (4 seconds)
3.20.21 am Kate calls Michelle and Jon (14 seconds)
3.23.28 am Jon Corner calls Kate (184 seconds)
3.28.46 am Jon Corner calls Kate (416 seconds)
3.55.21 am Jon Corner calls Kate (0 seconds) SMS
3.55.56 am Kate calls Jon Corner (0 seconds) SMS
4.03.44 am Jon Corner calls Kate (0 seconds) SMS
4.05.40 am Kate calls Jon Corner (0 seconds) SMS
4.12.33 am Kate calls Jon Corner (0 seconds) SMS

Apart from it being far from one phone call and keeping in mind that a mere 6 hours or so later, Jon Corner was distributing images and video material of Maddie to the media - according to a US directive on missing children (how or why he had such information I don't know), we also see both Jon and Michelle must have been phoning all their relatives for the mass prayer.

I have seen a headline in one of the tabloids to the effect that Kate felt persecuted or judged because of her faith and because she was trying to get a world-wide mass prayer started on the night of the 3rd. Can't find it at the moment.
It was the world-wide bit in there (so early) that got me. In June we get the 'global Madeleine day' proposed by Gerry.

by **tigger** 24.03.13 8:18

Michael Wright is married to a cousin of Dr Kate McCann

On Sunday 15th July, Michael Wright’s two children were christened - or ‘baptised’ – at Skipton. It is known that Dr Gerry McCann and Dr Kate McCann attended, flying into England on different days.

By way of background, the Wrights are Roman Catholics. Nearly always, practising Roman Catholics baptise, or ‘christen’, their children, at a young age. It is a key Roman Catholic sacrament and is thought by Roman Catholics to assure eternal salvation. . Christening children at the age of 12 and 10 is unusual.
Most recently it has become a common practice for parents of unchristened children to adopt to help ensure that their children are given a better chance of attending a good Roman Catholic secondary school.

I do not believe that selecting the appropriate school would have been a factor here. By July the schools need to have been selected and one would expect sensible parents to have secured a place for their children somewhat earlier.
Leaving your children unbaptised as RC is most unusual. Should a child die in such a condition it will automatically go to purgatory. (Please correct me if I'm wrong).

The McCanns stood as godparents for this occasion. It was Kate's first trip to the UK and Gerry's 3rd I believe.

by sami 24.03.13 8:57

Yes Tigger I have mentioned before that I was surprised at the age of the children. They will have missed the sacrament of Communion usually aged 7 or 8 and were in fact at an age where most would be receiving Confirmation. Where I am it is more usual to christen babies before three months. They carry on to a Catholic school but it is more common for the children then to opt out of Communion (usually the parents choice if not a practising family) or they opt out of confirmation (often the child's choice at 12or 13 years of age).

The only time I have known older children christened is when there is a change of faith involved. Many catholic parents, who may not necessarily be devout, would still christen their children with the mindset that as they grow older they can make their own choice as to whether or not remain in the church.

My mother in law says babies do no sleep through the night until they are christened, so there is reason enough for anybody big grin

by Guest 24.03.13 9:57

An earlier topic about the christening trip to England - I'd forgotten about that, how did the McCanns manage to drag themselves away from the search.......

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Also for information, an early clip from Michael Wright about the progress of the campaign. It really does sound like the launch of some commercial product.

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by Cristobell 24.03.13 12:51

The mass prayer vigil on night of 3rd/4th May is farcical. A qualified doctor wants people to pray (not search) for her missing daughter. Lets hope she does not follow the same line of thinking for her emergency patients.

by Nina 24.03.13 14:33

Cristobell wrote:The mass prayer vigil on night of 3rd/4th May is farcical. A qualified doctor wants people to pray (not search) for her missing daughter. Lets hope she does not follow the same line of thinking for her emergency patients.

As christian I have never had the need for mass prayers, nor a holy place to pray, nor it being at a designated time. Sorry if I offend anyone.

by Guest 24.03.13 15:11

To me it seems that the McCanns wanted to drum in the impression that, as Christians, they must be telling the truth.........

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As an atheist, I have no problem with what you say Nina.

Were I a Christian, I think I would resent the McCanns trying to improve their image in that way.

by **tigger** 24.03.13 16:03

Jean wrote:An earlier topic about the christening trip to England - I'd forgotten about that, how did the McCanns manage to drag themselves away from the search.......

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Also for information, an early clip from Michael Wright about the progress of the campaign. It really does sound like the launch of some commercial product.

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.... our partners include multinationals from the oil, banking, telecom and retail sector. unquote wft

This is the 17th of May 2003 .....

by Smokeandmirrors 24.03.13 17:12

Jean wrote:To me it seems that the McCanns wanted to drum in the impression that, as Christians, they must be telling the truth.........

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As an atheist, I have no problem with what you say Nina.

Were I a Christian, I think I would resent the McCanns trying to improve their image in that way.

Absolutely. No normal person would be indoors playing "phone a friend" for mass prayers, they'd be out there shouting their childs name, searching and searching again.

Seems to me that shouting abduction and rallying the troops was a panic measure to get everyone onside, get that story embedded before anyone started asking questions.

by sami 24.03.13 18:13

It is actually possible to walk and pray at the same time, perhaps not for Kate though.

by Guest 24.03.13 19:27

sami wrote:It is actually possible to walk and pray at the same time, perhaps not for Kate though.

Course not

Barf.

Excuse me.

by **tigger** 24.03.13 19:30

This one is interesting - especially the answer to the second question.
The answer to the first question includes the information that she has a key to the church. Is that a McCann prerogative? Wherever you are in the world, here's the key to the church?

Clips from the Aled Jones interview 14/3/2010

[..]
AJ: Are there ever times when you blame God?

KM: I've never blamed God for what's happened, at all. I don't think that that was anything to do with God. There are times when I've got angry with God and certainly the... the additional things that I've mentioned that have happened, where I just think, 'How can we have extra suffering put on us, at such an awful time?' And I just haven't understood it, and I've wondered why God hasn't interceded and tried to counter that. These are the times when I go off to church, to be honest. I mean I've got a key to the church; they've kindly given me one and sometimes I'll go in and, oh, its a bit of a sanctuary, its a bit of a refuge really. I'll go and I can speak out because, obviously, there's no-one there. Just get it all of my chest, really. I mean, I do wonder, you know, why should God help my prayers when there's millions of people with prayers which are equally as important around the world. I don't know. I mean, I just hope he does. My faith has sustained me a lot through all of this and there is a definite comfort there.

AJ: Do you find that your prayers have changed over the years?

KM: [...] But I pray for the people who have taken Madeleine, the people who know whats happened to Madeleine and the people around... related to the person who's taken Madeleine. I pray for the police and the investigators; people who are looking for her; and I pray for all the other children who are missing ...[..].
unquote

by Casey5 24.03.13 20:14

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Today at 7:30 pm

AJ: Do you find that your prayers have changed over the years?

KM: [...] But I pray for the people who have taken Madeleine, the people who know whats happened to Madeleine and the people around... related to the person who's
taken Madeleine. I pray for the police and the investigators; people
who are looking for her; and I pray for all the other children who are
missing ...[..].
unquote

Kate McCann prays for the people who took Madeleine but hopes the policeman who did all he could to find her "feels the fear" . Says it all really.

by **tigger** 24.03.13 21:36

Casey5 wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Today at 7:30 pm

AJ: Do you find that your prayers have changed over the years?

KM: [...] But I pray for the people who have taken Madeleine, the people who know whats happened to Madeleine and the people around... related to the person who's
taken Madeleine. I pray for the police and the investigators; people
who are looking for her; and I pray for all the other children who are
missing ...[..].
unquote

Kate McCann prays for the people who took Madeleine but hopes the policeman who did all he could to find her "feels the fear" . Says it all really.

Hi Casey, if you want to quote anyone, just click on the 'quote' box top right of a post. This will give you the post you're commenting on in the reply box.
If you then type under the last [quote] it will be clearer.

And - as you say - Kate McCanns God seems to differentiate between people who've harmed Madeleine and people who've 'harmed' Kate.

What also struck me is that she prays for an awful lot of people connected to Maddie's disappearance:
the people who have taken Madeleine,
the people who know what's happened to Madeleine
and the people around.. related to the person who's taken Madeleine.

does she know all of them?

by Khalgregar 26.03.13 22:59

'There is one thing of which I am confident: I believe wherever Madeleine is, God is with her. And during my calmer moments, I also believe that in God's time, we'll get there.'

by **PeterMac** 27.03.13 7:43

I seem to remember that the Scriptures taught that one could pray alone, any time, any place, and that the Lord, who hears everything and knows everything and is everywhere, would hear.
Makes one wonder why they think St Peter's is actually necessary !

by Woofer 27.03.13 9:36

Tigger`s words :- "It was the world-wide bit in there (so early) that got me. In June we get the 'global Madeleine day' proposed by Gerry."

Yes....... that`s flippin` weird. Do any of us know anyone who would expect world-wide attention for our loss? Only the most arrogant, narcissistic mindset would have this expectation. Their perception of themselves is that they, and Madeleine, are the most important people in the world.

This expectation of world-wide importance has echoes of a cult or new religion - I think I`ve said this before on here. They act like cult leaders and their actions are forcing the image of Madeleine into the consciousness of the whole world. I won`t look at Madeleine`s image anymore - to me its creepy with the `keyhole eye`. There cannot be a person in the civilised world who hasn`t got the image of Madeleine imprinted on their brain. The preparation has been done. Next thing we know, Madeleine becomes a saint (like they do in the catholic church) and wey hey what fortune lies ahead !

In fact the whole thing is creepy to me.

by Guest 22.09.13 11:10

tigger wrote:Michael Wright is married to a cousin of Dr Kate McCann

On Sunday 15th July, Michael Wright’s two children were christened - or ‘baptised’ – at Skipton. It is known that Dr Gerry McCann and Dr Kate McCann attended, flying into England on different days.

By way of background, the Wrights are Roman Catholics. Nearly always, practising Roman Catholics baptise, or ‘christen’, their children, at a young age. It is a key Roman Catholic sacrament and is thought by Roman Catholics to assure eternal salvation. . Christening children at the age of 12 and 10 is unusual.
Most recently it has become a common practice for parents of unchristened children to adopt to help ensure that their children are given a better chance of attending a good Roman Catholic secondary school.

I do not believe that selecting the appropriate school would have been a factor here. By July the schools need to have been selected and one would expect sensible parents to have secured a place for their children somewhat earlier.
Leaving your children unbaptised as RC is most unusual. Should a child die in such a condition it will automatically go to purgatory. (Please correct me if I'm wrong).

The McCanns stood as godparents for this occasion. It was Kate's first trip to the UK and Gerry's 3rd I believe.

School can be a valid reason for late baptism, and the cert would only be required when the children physically start the term. It's not unusual at all, there are a lot of lapsed Catholics who wind up in that situation, I'm speaking from experience.

But from MW's rog

I haven't seen Kate and Gerry very often, but we always met at family events such as weddings and baptisms. I didn't attend their wedding because my wife, Anne-Marie, was ill and we didn't attend their children's baptisms because we were away on holidays.

A big coincidence they were on hols for both baptisms

And the good bewk

That weekend, the children and I flew out to the UK and were joined by Gerry in Yorkshire. Michael and Anne-Marie had asked us to stand as godparents to their children. Katie and Patrick had never been baptized as babies, and I think the decision to do this now had perhaps been precipitated by what has happened to us. It had concentrated everyone's minds on how fragile life is, how it can be wrecked in an instant.

Naturally, we badly wanted to be at the baptism. I had not set foot in the UK since Madeleine's abduction and although for me this was an emotional journey, it was not the same as 'going home'. The press, however, were bound to see it that way, and we were worried they would turn up in force and spoil this family occasion. So with the cooperation of the authorities in both countries, we kept it under the radar, and, thanks to the police, for once we managed to stay one step ahead of our media shadows, much to their annoyance when they eventually found out. Instead the church was patrolled by police - Skipton, Michael declared, had never seen so many - a rather more reassuring and less intrusive presence.

Kate goes off on a tangent justifying the baptisms, why?, and then spares everyone from press intrusion (must be a first) and then assures us that the church and grounds were well secured by the police to quell any suspicious minds.

"Naturally, we badly wanted to be at the baptism"

I don't see anything natural about why they'd badly need to attend. The Wrights didn't attend their own children's christenings and it wasn't a problem. A lot of organisation for such a low key service not to mention MW, the dad himself flying over to PDL to collect Kate, bring her to Skipton, have the service and then fly back to PDL. Godparents don't need to physically attend a baptism, this can be easily done by proxy, just a formality in view of what happened. IMO If it was such a big deal for the family, MW would be home with his family in preparation and GM would have accompanied his wife and children on the flight home.

by Penfold 22.09.13 11:53

Interestingly their children are named after Kate and Gerald Patrick !

by **PeterMac** 22.09.13 11:58

sami wrote:It is actually possible to walk and pray at the same time, perhaps not for Kate though.

I am told it is also possible to pray without going to church.

But perhaps- like fitness training - it only works if people see you doing it.

by Guest 22.09.13 12:06

I think that Jesus himself criticised people who flaunted their faith in public.

If he existed, he spoke a lot of sense and he'd probably be horrified to see what is done in his name now.

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by Guest 22.09.13 12:20

Usually in a situation like an abduction the church rallies around the family but bizarrely in this case the couple seemed to rally around the church. I'm pretty sure Jesus himself would have told them to get out and search for the child and leave the praying to the community.

by Guest 22.09.13 12:23

Indeed - seek and ye shall find!

by **Tony Bennett** 22.09.13 13:25

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I think that Jesus himself criticised people who flaunted their faith in public.

Yes, and one of the classic accounts given by Christ in the gospels is this one (Luke 18 vv 9-14):

"And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted".

by **tigger** 22.09.13 13:50

Playing the religion card was a well thought out move. Adding that she is being persecuted for her faith gets her the support of about one billion people - not a bad move at all.

Except for the committing suicide with the family of course - that would be self glorification/martyrdom - not at all the deed of a good catholic.

Kate, I don't dislike you for your religious beliefs but for a long list of what are considered sins in many religions, including the Roman Catholic faith.
The Pope appears to be of the same mind. Playing the Pope card was another stroke of genius, so obviously arranged from the top, yet the McCanns were whooshed from the Vatican website fairly soon. The Vatican is reputed to have an excellent intelligence department.