The Last Video.

by MOTBO 24.08.11 8:17

Firstly do you agree that this video is in fact the one DP mentioned in his rogatory statement of 11/04/2008.

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If so that plane is a BMI Baby flight number WW5531 which was operated by a Boeing 737, scheduled take off 0930hrs actual take off 0940hrs so one must asume the video is taken around 0900hrs, on the grounds that East Midlands Apt uses a bus transfer and step boarding method.

Now if I was to say that the weather at 0900 was overcast (details obtained from a claims manager friend) why are their strong shadows.

Then freeze the video at 8 seconds, and note top right the grey markings to me they look like windows, go back to 4 seconds and freeze it again.

Note the person in black with the child buggies and note the height relation between head/windows. I am over 1.85m tall and I have flown a lot of Boeing 737 with step boarding method, and no way does my head come anywhere near them. To prove my point the following link is the McCanns returning back to the UK albeit its an Airbus 319 but check out step length/width and height of windows. Also check out the markings on the ground.

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Any comments.

by skyrocket 28.10.15 14:22

I found this a couple of days ago whilst browsing.

Thanks to the poster MOTBO for clarifying the actual flight time of 9.40 am for flight BMI Baby WW5531 from EMA on the 28 April 2007, the assumed outbound flight for the Payne/McCann party. The flight number was readily available but I hadn't been able to pin down the time until now.

This would have given an arrival time of around 12.30 pm in Portugal (Faro).

Just for the record, since finding the post I have managed to clarify MOTBO's concern regarding the apparent boarding video of MBM and Lily Payne, which most on here have will have watched.

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The video shows step boarding via the rear port (left) door of a plane, hence the rest of the plane (wing; engine; body; tail) are not visible. The area in the top right of the shot, which MOTBO felt was the body of the 737, is actually a terminal building in the background behind the plane. This was explained by a gentleman who runs an online plane spotting website. He very kindly sent me a photo of the layout of EMA's terminals and plane 'parking bays', which even shows a BMI Baby 737 parked up ready to take passengers. On reviewing the video it seems clear.

With regards to MOTBO's concerns about the weather, I can't comment other than that April 2007 was unseasonably warm. I can't find data for the specific time/date/location in question - perhaps others may be able to.

There are sme random oddities regarding the outbound journey of the Payne/McCann party, not least some of the comments made by Dianne Webster in her rogatory:

”Err we flew from err East Midlands err I travelled up to Leicester the day before we were due to leave and err Kate and Gerry, or Gerry, had organised mini bus, a mini bus or a couple of mini buses to transport us to East Midlands airport so err Fiona and Dave and I err drove to Kate and Gerry’s house, left, left the car at their house and then we all went in two mini buses to the airport. Err I’m trying to think, I think the flight was about nine thirty or something in the morning. Err I think the, the flight, I’m trying to think it was a, maybe a bit later in the evening I can’t quite remember but there was nothing untoward, you know, it was just a normal err journey there. Err when we arrived at you know at, in Portugal I think the other thing that Gerry had err booked, I don’t know whether he did it by phone or online, was a, err a mini bus to take us to the err resort where we were staying err and there was a bit of a kafuffle because we had, he’d asked for several child seats for the err bus because obviously there were five children in the group and I think there was only, I don’t know if it was one seat or two seats, so there was a bit of time spent at the airport trying to find other seats err and I don’t think we did manage to get all six in the end so we just sort of risked it and were driven to Praia Da Luz.”

2 minibuses??

Why the need to stress 5 children by saying 'obviously'??

Why does she then go on to say 'six' when referring to the child car seats??

There seems to have been a preoccupation with taxi problems and car seats. Note what JT says in her rogatory, for the Oldfield/O'Brien party:

“Err I say it was quite, because we’d booked a taxi, a big taxi so that we could all get in with car seats obviously for the kids, to take us from Matthew’s but that didn’t turn up or I think they just sent one with no car seats so in the end we had to, we all drove so we all ended up having to drive to the airport."

I can find no concrete record of the McCann's booked return flight on 5 May 2007. Even on the printout supplied to the PJ from Faro airport (link below), the McCann's departure looks 'irregular'. The flight is shown as WW5532, which is the BMI Baby flight from Faro to EMA, but the return date seems to appear as 05-06-2007 and then 'no show' recorded. The Payne's return date appears as 05-05-2007, but no show is omitted. Dianne Webster's name is absent altogether.

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Quite a few other odd things on this document, including the McCann family arrival dates showing as 5 consecutive days (computer error or error caused by something else?) and the Oldfield/O'Brien departure dates being shown similarly. Also, note it shows Rachael Oldfield apparently returning to Luton rather than to Gatwick with the rest of the party; and, '2 bebes' are listed in the Oldfield party on 17 May.

Why would the record be so confused? Surely it should be a simple clear printout of names/arrival/departure. Has there been some manpulation before the PJ received the information towards the end of September?

by Nina 28.10.15 14:35

skyrocket wrote:I found this a couple of days ago whilst browsing.

Thanks to the poster MOTBO for clarifying the actual flight time of 9.40 am for flight BMI Baby WW5531 from EMA on the 28 April 2007, the assumed outbound flight for the Payne/McCann party. The flight number was readily available but I hadn't been able to pin down the time until now.

This would have given an arrival time of around 12.30 pm in Portugal (Faro).

Just for the record, since finding the post I have managed to clarify MOTBO's concern regarding the apparent boarding video of MBM and Lily Payne, which most on here have will have watched.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The video shows step boarding via the rear port (left) door of a plane, hence the rest of the plane (wing; engine; body; tail) are not visible. The area in the top right of the shot, which MOTBO felt was the body of the 737, is actually a terminal building in the background behind the plane. This was explained by a gentleman who runs an online plane spotting website. He very kindly sent me a photo of the layout of EMA's terminals and plane 'parking bays', which even shows a BMI Baby 737 parked up ready to take passengers. On reviewing the video it seems clear.

With regards to MOTBO's concerns about the weather, I can't comment other than that April 2007 was unseasonably warm. I can't find data for the specific time/date/location in question - perhaps others may be able to.

There are sme random oddities regarding the outbound journey of the Payne/McCann party, not least some of the comments made by Dianne Webster in her rogatory:

”Err we flew from err East Midlands err I travelled up to Leicester the day before we were due to leave and err Kate and Gerry, or Gerry, had organised mini bus, a mini bus or a couple of mini buses to transport us to East Midlands airport so err Fiona and Dave and I err drove to Kate and Gerry’s house, left, left the car at their house and then we all went in two mini buses to the airport. Err I’m trying to think, I think the flight was about nine thirty or something in the morning. Err I think the, the flight, I’m trying to think it was a, maybe a bit later in the evening I can’t quite remember but there was nothing untoward, you know, it was just a normal err journey there. Err when we arrived at you know at, in Portugal I think the other thing that Gerry had err booked, I don’t know whether he did it by phone or online, was a, err a mini bus to take us to the err resort where we were staying err and there was a bit of a kafuffle because we had, he’d asked for several child seats for the err bus because obviously there were five children in the group and I think there was only, I don’t know if it was one seat or two seats, so there was a bit of time spent at the airport trying to find other seats err and I don’t think we did manage to get all six in the end so we just sort of risked it and were driven to Praia Da Luz.”

2 minibuses??

Why the need to stress 5 children by saying 'obviously'??

Why does she then go on to say 'six' when referring to the child car seats??

There seems to have been a preoccupation with taxi problems and car seats. Note what JT says in her rogatory, for the Oldfield/O'Brien party:

“Err I say it was quite, because we’d booked a taxi, a big taxi so that we could all get in with car seats obviously for the kids, to take us from Matthew’s but that didn’t turn up or I think they just sent one with no car seats so in the end we had to, we all drove so we all ended up having to drive to the airport."

I can find no concrete record of the McCann's booked return flight on 5 May 2007. Even on the printout supplied to the PJ from Faro airport (link below), the McCann's departure looks 'irregular'. The flight is shown as WW5532, which is the BMI Baby flight from Faro to EMA, but the return date seems to appear as 05-06-2007 and then 'no show' recorded. The Payne's return date appears as 05-05-2007, but no show is omitted. Dianne Webster's name is absent altogether.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Quite a few other odd things on this document, including the McCann family arrival dates showing as 5 consecutive days (computer error or error caused by something else?) and the Oldfield/O'Brien departure dates being shown similarly. Also, note it shows Rachael Oldfield apparently returning to Luton rather than to Gatwick with the rest of the party; and, '2 bebes' are listed in the Oldfield party on 17 May.

Why would the record be so confused? Surely it should be a simple clear printout of names/arrival/departure. Has there been some manpulation before the PJ received the information towards the end of September?

At 0:36 on the bus video it shows that Madeleine and the Paynes eldest girl are carrying a plastic bag the same as DW so I presume a duty free bag.Have tried to blow it up to see any writing or even what was in it but without success.Looking to see if the red tee shirt with the plane on might be in it.My eyes are getting terrible.
Edited to add,I have flown in and out many times from EMA and never had a bus, always walked either too or from the plane

by skyrocket 28.10.15 15:05

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You and me both! I've had another go with the plastic bags and I think that the writing is 'Newsweek', who do use white on a red background for their mag title. The picture looks like a bloke in sunglasses. This might suggest that they had all been to WH Smith to buy reading material - perhaps even sticker books.

I did wonder about the bus transfer - whether it was in the UK or not. The planes in the EMA photo I was sent seemed to be right next to the terminal and as you say, you have always walked to the plane. Also, the response from David Payne to GM's expletive seems to suggest that they have already arrived i.e. 'cheer up we're on holiday'. More likely to say, 'we're going on holiday' if still in the UK.

by Nina 28.10.15 15:17

skyrocket wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - hi!

You and me both! I've had another go with the plastic bags and I think that the writing is 'Newsweek', who do use red on a white background for their mag title. The picture looks like a bloke in sunglasses. This might suggest that they had all been to WH Smith to buy reading material - perhaps even scrap books.

I did wonder about the bus transfer - whether it was in the UK or not. The planes in the EMA photo I was sent seemed to be right next to the terminal and as you say, you have always walked to the plane. Also, the response from David Payne to GM's expletive seems to suggest that they have already arrived i.e. 'cheer up we're on holiday'. More likely to say, 'we're going on holiday' if still in the UK.

Hi yourself skyrocket
Well I am certain that it isn't EMA but wherever it is it shows them boarding the plane so cannot be when they arrived, unless it is a compilation of the boarding at EMA and the bus at Faro.

by LG 28.10.15 15:52

Sorry, I'm obviously being a bit obtuse here but weren't there eight children on that holiday? Mine were certainly still in car seats at four years old. Our youngest was born 1987 for reference.

by skyrocket 28.10.15 16:16

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Yes you're right, there were 8 children (3,2,2,1) in total.

I'm assuming you mean my reference to Dianne Webster's statement and the 5/6 children. The McCann/Payne group of which DW was a part of only consisted of 5 children. The other 3 (Ella, Evie and Grace) were with the group which travelled from Gatwick. At this point in DW's statement she was just referring to the children who travelled out in her group i.e. should/would have been 5 in total.

by Masterblaster 29.10.15 8:16

I don't think that the plane is at East Midlands either, planes there "park" North - South, judging by the length of the shadows and their direction it is either early morning or late afternoon and everyone is walking towards the North or South, that would be parallel to the plane, not towards it, the plane is parked East - West.

by skyrocket 29.10.15 8:38

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Interesting. I have no idea as never flown from EMA. Do you recognise the building behind at all?

It's clear that it's a sunny day (blue sky; shadows), but also that some passengers have got jackets on. If the flight was infact WW5531 from EMA, the passengers would have been boarding about 9 am for scheduled 9.30 am take off. However, if you read the poster who started this thread, they say that they checked the weather for the morning of 28 April and it was overcast.

Why or if there would be any subterfuge going on this early, I've no idea. BUT, GM's bus video comment does raise questions. I've watched all the released videos with MBM in them, several times, and on a couple of occasions GM corrects her 'manners' i.e. pointing at people and saying 'uh huh' instead of 'yes'. I've also noted that in nearly every single photo/video with the children (or without) prior to Luz he is smiling broadly. Why then does he swear and look really ****ed off in public; infront of his own 3 children, a friend's children, and others on the shuttle bus - out of character. Similar sort of attitude is apparent in the 'last photo' by the pool. He doesn't seem to be a happy bunny going to or in Luz. Does he now something we don't?