Re: Crèche signatures revisited

by Guest 10.03.16 16:54

Actually a few ways you could cut through to get there quicker:

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by skyrocket 11.03.16 10:09

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - morning

Also, from your map, looks like there are footpaths straight down next to G27 and G46 - between the houses.

by sar 13.03.16 23:53

April28th wrote:Actually a few ways you could cut through to get there quicker:

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...can pop into casa Liliana for a glass of NZ white on the way back

by willowthewisp 14.03.16 10:30

sar wrote:
April28th wrote:Actually a few ways you could cut through to get there quicker:

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...can pop into casa Liliana for a glass of NZ white on the way back

"Did you know RM before Madeleine Disappeared,I'm not going to comment on that?"

by NickE 18.03.16 20:29

Estelle wrote:I have the utmost respect for Dewi Lennard and his research on this case. He definitely wants the truth to come out.

Agree,I have his 15 pages "Final report" on his creche case and he have done a h*ll of a work on this.

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by Guest 18.03.16 21:00

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Do you have a link to the whole thing?

by Guest 17.04.16 11:33

interesting tweet from Dewi Lennard @kikoratton …….

If, for the purposes of finding a replacement for the departed Madeleine [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], Gerry had been able to conjure up a three-year-old called Madeleine or Madalene (sounds the same) from among his acquaintances without being obliged to the Naylors for the use of their child, he would have done so. But the fact that he needed to take the Naylor child to creche as a means of signing-in a second child - called Madalene - suggests to me that there was a link, or bond, between the two girls, and between their families. The fact that both of the girls has a maternal grandparent called Connell, assuming my independently arrived at identification of the second child is correct, suggests to me that they are cousins.

(copied from "Twitter, News & Important Information only", posted by Tinkier).

by **Tony Bennett** 17.04.16 13:16

Ladyinred wrote:interesting tweet from Dewi Lennard @kikoratton …….

If, for the purposes of finding a replacement for the departed Madeleine [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], Gerry had been able to conjure up a three-year-old called Madeleine or Madalene (sounds the same) from among his acquaintances without being obliged to the Naylors for the use of their child, he would have done so. But the fact that he needed to take the Naylor child to creche as a means of signing-in a second child - called Madalene - suggests to me that there was a link, or bond, between the two girls, and between their families. The fact that both of the girls has a maternal grandparent called Connell, assuming my independently arrived at identification of the second child is correct, suggests to me that they are cousins.

(copied from "Twitter, News & Important Information only", posted by Tinkier).

Hmmm, it looks like Dewi Lennard has now finally abandoned his claim that there was a 'Madalene Rider' there on holiday, as I think he has to because there is zero evidence AFAIK that the Riders were in or anywhere near Praia da Luz that week.

IF he has established that Elizabeth Naylor and Madeleine McCann were cousins, that virtually proves that the Naylors and the McCanns must have known each other before the holiday in 2007.

But at the end of the day, if Madeleine was not there after Sunday as some believe, the simplest explanation by far IMO remains that Cat Baker colluded with the McCanns to say Madeleine was there when she wasn't

by Amy Dean 17.04.16 13:19

I'm lost here. Madeleine's maternal grandparents are Susan (nee Kennedy) and Brian Healy. No Connell there.

by Guest 17.04.16 13:36

I read it as EN and MR could be cousins.

by whodunit 17.04.16 16:31

Tony Bennett wrote:
Ladyinred wrote:interesting tweet from Dewi Lennard @kikoratton …….

If, for the purposes of finding a replacement for the departed Madeleine [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], Gerry had been able to conjure up a three-year-old called Madeleine or Madalene (sounds the same) from among his acquaintances without being obliged to the Naylors for the use of their child, he would have done so. But the fact that he needed to take the Naylor child to creche as a means of signing-in a second child - called Madalene - suggests to me that there was a link, or bond, between the two girls, and between their families. The fact that both of the girls has a maternal grandparent called Connell, assuming my independently arrived at identification of the second child is correct, suggests to me that they are cousins.

(copied from "Twitter, News & Important Information only", posted by Tinkier).
Hmmm, it looks like Dewi Lennard has now finally abandoned his claim that there was a 'Madalene Rider' there on holiday, as I think he has to because there is zero evidence AFAIK that the Riders were in or anywhere near Praia da Luz that week.

IF he has established that Elizabeth Naylor and Madeleine McCann were cousins, that virtually proves that the Naylors and the McCanns must have known each other before the holiday in 2007.

But at the end of the day, if Madeleine was not there after Sunday as some believe, the simplest explanation by far IMO remains that Cat Baker colluded with the McCanns to say Madeleine was there when she wasn't

Has anyone directly asked kikiratton what proof he has that Madalene was present in PDL? Is it true that he is not suggesting her whole family was in PDL, only that Madelene accompanied the Naylor's on holiday?

by NickE 17.04.16 17:02

Ladyinred wrote:I read it as EN and MR could be cousins.

That´s correct, Kiko think´s MR and EN could be cousins.

by Guest 17.04.16 17:19

NickE wrote:
Ladyinred wrote:I read it as EN and MR could be cousins.
That´s correct, Kiko think´s MR and EN could be cousins.

So their mothers would be sisters?

by NickE 17.04.16 17:27

Ladyinred wrote:
NickE wrote:
Ladyinred wrote:I read it as EN and MR could be cousins.
That´s correct, Kiko think´s MR and EN could be cousins.
So their mother's would be sisters?

Yes, Áinne Naylor was born Connell, in an Irish East London family and I think "Kiko" could have some kind of info that Sarah F*x also was born "Connell".

by **Tony Bennett** 17.04.16 17:53

NickE wrote:
Yes, Áinne Naylor was born Connell, in an Irish East London family and I think "Kiko" could have some kind of info that Sarah F*x also was born "Connell".

So...suppose it could be established that Elizabeth Naylor and a 'Madalene Rider' are cousins.

If we further assume (without any evidence so far) that the Naylors did take 'Madalene' on holiday with them, then we are surely back at the hypothesis 'Kiko' raised many years ago, namely that the whole thing was premeditated. To believe that, you would also have to assume that the McCanns, AND the Naylors, AND the Riders had all planned this - for whatever reason?? - for months beforehand. A theory that still has few supporters.

The alternative, which seems particularly unlikely, is that something bad happened to Madeleine, say on the Sunday, and the McCanns, knowing that Robert Naylor had his little niece 'Madalene' with him, knocked on his door and said something like: "Look, I wonder if you could help. Madeleine's dead I'm afraid, would you mind if we pretended that your Madeleine was my Madeleine for the next few days?"

by whodunit 17.04.16 19:12

Tony Bennett wrote:
NickE wrote:
Yes, Áinne Naylor was born Connell, in an Irish East London family and I think "Kiko" could have some kind of info that Sarah F*x also was born "Connell".

So...suppose it could be established that Elizabeth Naylor and a 'Madalene Rider' are cousins.

If we further assume (without any evidence so far) that the Naylors did take 'Madalene' on holiday with them, then we are surely back at the hypothesis 'Kiko' raised many years ago, namely that the whole thing was premeditated. To believe that, you would also have to assume that the McCanns, AND the Naylors, AND the Riders had all planned this - for whatever reason?? - for months beforehand. A theory that still has few supporters.

The alternative, which seems particularly unlikely, is that something bad happened to Madeleine, say on the Sunday, and the McCanns, knowing that Robert Naylor had his little niece 'Madalene' with him, knocked on his door and said something like: "Look, I wonder if you could help. Madeleine's dead I'm afraid, would you mind if we pretended that your Madeleine was my Madeleine for the next few days?"

I don't think it necessarily follows that Madalene being along for the holiday = premeditation. This theory requires the Naylors to be knowing participants. [almost as probable/likely as Cat Baker's theoretical knowing complicity] I, and I believe many here do as well, believe the McCanns 'and others' were ALL involved in activities which were ~~not respectable~~, and which was perhaps knowingly hosted by MW, during which something happened to MBM. One of the children of this group serendipitously 'fit the bill' so to speak to aid in the cover-up. Perhaps the form the cover-up took was even suggested by her presence. Had she not been there, the cover up might have looked quite different or a cover up without making use of her may not have worked so well. A child's presence in the creche purporting to be MBM even has GA convinced that something happened on the evening of the 3rd.

by NickE 17.04.16 22:25

Tony Bennett wrote:
NickE wrote:
Yes, Áinne Naylor was born Connell, in an Irish East London family and I think "Kiko" could have some kind of info that Sarah F*x also was born "Connell".
So...suppose it could be established that Elizabeth Naylor and a 'Madalene Rider' are cousins.

If we further assume (without any evidence so far) that the Naylors did take 'Madalene' on holiday with them, then we are surely back at the hypothesis 'Kiko' raised many years ago, namely that the whole thing was premeditated. To believe that, you would also have to assume that the McCanns, AND the Naylors, AND the Riders had all planned this - for whatever reason?? - for months beforehand. A theory that still has few supporters.

Manuel Catarino, editorial chief of Correio da Manha opened his book ‘A culpa dos McCann’ with the lines: “This story did not begin in the Ocean Club, but in London where the official truth was conspired and established: an English girl was kidnapped in the Algarve.”
IF this is the case and we add Kiko´s theory to what Catarino claimed back in 2007, what can the motive be?
*Pre-planned murder of a 4 year child that involved people who have kids in the same age?
Very unlikely.IMO
*Was it a coincidence that a gang of doctors did this trip together and PJ did not get access to Madeleine´s medical records?
*If Catarino´s claims together with Kiko´s theory is correct,where does Naylor fit in all of this?
*I agree with you Tony when you said Madeleine looked happy and healthy on the playground pictures but as we know, it is not always visible on the outside and Amaral said there was info that Madeleine was ill, if? how ill?
*Kiko have said earlier that he believes Tanner/O'Brien knew Naylor before Pdl through the sailing.

*Finaly, what can we conclude IF this theory is the case?
A gang of doctors tried an unproven medicine/drugs financial backed by the investment banker Naylor who worked at the corrupt Icelandic Landsbanki that collapsed in 2008 and if all went wrong they moved on to plan B, "The abduction plan"

The alternative, which seems particularly unlikely, is that something bad happened to Madeleine, say on the Sunday, and the McCanns, knowing that Robert Naylor had his little niece 'Madalene' with him, knocked on his door and said something like: "Look, I wonder if you could help. Madeleine's dead I'm afraid, would you mind if we pretended that your Madeleine was my Madeleine for the next few days?"

In my opinion I find this scenario totally unrealistic and unlikely.

by Carrry On Doctor 18.04.16 8:39

Snipped...

The alternative, which seems particularly unlikely, is that something bad happened to Madeleine, say on the Sunday, and the McCanns, knowing that Robert Naylor had his little niece 'Madalene' with him, knocked on his door and said something like: "Look, I wonder if you could help. Madeleine's dead I'm afraid, would you mind if we pretended that your Madeleine was my Madeleine for the next few days?"

In my opinion I find this scenario totally unrealistic and unlikely.

or...

"Look, I wonder if you could help. Madeleine's dead I'm afraid, would you mind if we pretended that your Madeleine was my Madeleine for the next few days.....just a reminder though that we are all 'into each other' and should the truth come out, and we are all labelled as swingers, the press will have a field day which will affect our careers and our families. Its not a big ask. If you don't then we are all finished. Have a think about it will you ?"

or perhaps...

Robert, have a lie in and myself of Kate will pick up Madalane and then take all the kids down to the creche together. See you at the tennis court !

by whodunit 18.04.16 15:57

Carrry On Doctor wrote:
Snipped...

The alternative, which seems particularly unlikely, is that something bad happened to Madeleine, say on the Sunday, and the McCanns, knowing that Robert Naylor had his little niece 'Madalene' with him, knocked on his door and said something like: "Look, I wonder if you could help. Madeleine's dead I'm afraid, would you mind if we pretended that your Madeleine was my Madeleine for the next few days?"

In my opinion I find this scenario totally unrealistic and unlikely.

or...

"Look, I wonder if you could help. Madeleine's dead I'm afraid, would you mind if we pretended that your Madeleine was my Madeleine for the next few days.....just a reminder though that we are all 'into each other' and should the truth come out, and we are all labelled as swingers, the press will have a field day which will affect our careers and our families. Its not a big ask. If you don't then we are all finished. Have a think about it will you ?"

or perhaps...

Robert, have a lie in and myself of Kate will pick up Madalane and then take all the kids down to the creche together. See you at the tennis court !

Or they all shout in unison:

"Oh my god she's dead! What are we going to do??"

The most diabolical among them formulates a plan. The rest have no choice but to go along...

by Rob Royston 18.04.16 20:59

Tony Bennett wrote:
NickE wrote:
Yes, Áinne Naylor was born Connell, in an Irish East London family and I think "Kiko" could have some kind of info that Sarah F*x also was born "Connell".
So...suppose it could be established that Elizabeth Naylor and a 'Madalene Rider' are cousins.

If we further assume (without any evidence so far) that the Naylors did take 'Madalene' on holiday with them, then we are surely back at the hypothesis 'Kiko' raised many years ago, namely that the whole thing was premeditated. To believe that, you would also have to assume that the McCanns, AND the Naylors, AND the Riders had all planned this - for whatever reason?? - for months beforehand. A theory that still has few supporters.

The alternative, which seems particularly unlikely, is that something bad happened to Madeleine, say on the Sunday, and the McCanns, knowing that Robert Naylor had his little niece 'Madalene' with him, knocked on his door and said something like: "Look, I wonder if you could help. Madeleine's dead I'm afraid, would you mind if we pretended that your Madeleine was my Madeleine for the next few days?"

Why would he tell Robert Naylor that Madeleine was dead on the Sunday morning, the morning when Gerry allegedly started signing EN and MR into crèche, when we have all agreed that Madeleine was photographed at the pool on the Sunday afternoon?
The fact that these actors who supplied the substitute did not arrive by air with the others is a strong reason to suspect that it was all premeditated.
I strongly believe that Madeleine was to be "abducted" on the Thursday evening, or at least that was when the alarm was to be raised. It is still possible that she was "abducted", or she may have died unexpectedly before this could take place. Remember that the Secret Services were involved according to Goncalo Amaral.
The families of the sub and her "cousin" may have played out their parts in this plan, which was probably organised at Government level, and would not necessarily be aware of any unscripted "disaster" that may have happened to Madeleine.

by Realist 21.04.16 14:35

j.rob wrote:
I know there has been much speculation about a Madeliene McCann 'sub' and if this was the case then this points to pre-planning.

This would have to entail not only the McCann's acquaintances and the Creche staff being part of the plot, but the substitute herself, not to mention the people supplying her, all of whom don't appear remotely interested in the large rewards the media would undoubtably be prepared to offer for genuine information relating to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

I have to state that this is totally alien to any human behavioural patterns I have experienced during my course of time on this planet. big grin

by whodunit 21.04.16 16:18

I still don't see how a sub points to pre-planning.

I especially don't see how a 3-4 year old sub would have to be in on it.

The people supplying her didn't actually lose a child so why should they reap any 'rewards' of the size the McCs have enjoyed? Going to the media with 'genuine information' would be out of the question if they are implicated in activities which cost the life of MBM.