Re: Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat

by **sharonl** 06.07.12 6:36

Here is an extract from an e-mail that I received from another SA Investigator in March 2011. I am unable to provide the entire message since it was sent in confidence, but as he also relayed this information to many others and the story is now in the media, I think that it may be OK to share this extract.

It seems that I was mistaken about him being a psychic, he was just working with one.

What is written below is an extract from an e-mail, neither I or the Madeleine Foundation are not responsible for its content and we should not assume any truth in what is written there until this is proven.

Here is what the investigator had to say:

Madeleine Mc Cann is dead, she is buried in the yard of Robert Murat, about
3 meters off the back boundry wall.

At the time, and maybe even now, THE MURATS DO NOT KNOW SHE IS THERE.

I believe that ******* ********* could have placed her in the yard, but he was not responsible for her death. He was only doing someone a favour.

I emailled Amaral, and told him the above, adding, " I BELIEVE THAT YOU MAY ALSO FIND A MISSING TENNIS / SPORTS BAG BURIED WITH HER".

by uppatoffee 06.07.12 7:03

Is the reward even still on offer? It certainly hasn't been mentioned for a very long time.

by **PeterMac** 06.07.12 7:59

It would make sense of GM's reaction to the question, though.

by roy rovers 06.07.12 8:21

I would expect that there would be plenty of disturbed ground, even ground cavities, at a shallow depth beneath a recently constructed driveway. Still pretty impressive logistically to purchase that kit, take it and a team to PdL, hire expensive lawyers etc. He must be very wealthy. Just when the case had gone a bit quiet this comes up!

by **tigger** 06.07.12 8:32

From the Algarve Resident article:

'Birch told the Correio da Manhã that images collected detected that “an object” had been buried in the backyard “60 centimetres underground”. The data was allegedly analysed by a specialist who confirmed the probable presence of something in that location.' unquote

That's a marvellous and incisive conclusion! Case closed.... flag

by Liz Eagles 06.07.12 8:39

I don't know what to make of all of this. At first I was inclined to think it was spoof as the translation was poor (apologies once again to Carly for my unreasonable knee jerk reaction). I have to question the motivation of Stephen Birch. Whilst South Africans are to be admired for their no-nonsense approach to things, to decide to play maverick, travel to PDL, expertly break into someone's garden on four occasions and then purport that whatever was found with his state of the art equipment is the body of Madeleine is too difficult for me to understand. Is SB merely thinking he can bulldoze a re-opening of the case in Portugal by shoving an enormous spanner into the works? If that's the case imo he's not going to get satisfaction there. Stating the name of two weighty lawfirms, is that good or bad? What message was that supposed to be giving and more importantly who was the message aimed at?

It's not adding up for me.

Walter Scott · by david_uk 06.07.12 9:08

How was he supposed to of managed this with two guard dogs on the Murat property!. Did he drug them with poisoned Blueberries!! The Fantastic Mr Birch!?.

Give me a break!. Has he said its the Murat house, maybe its a different villa? maybe he got the wrong house!.

by buscadora Matilda 06.07.12 9:36

Good morning,

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I vaguely remember a Mr. Birch from South Africa that appeared already in July/August 2007 in PdL with a strange apparatus claiming he could find the body, if there was any at all? I think he was engaged on request of the MCs. I don't exactly have a good memory for names, but when I saw the Birch interview yesterday it just crossed my mind. In the interview he claims being into the case for more than a year now, but then what happened to the time before?

Sorry, this is my first post and I am going to introduce myself briefly in the welcome forum.

by Guest 06.07.12 9:38

aquila wrote: [...] Stating the name of two weighty lawfirms, is that good or bad? What message was that supposed to be giving and more importantly who was the message aimed at?
[...]

***
Could be taken as a message to some people, who are well lawyered up, that he is too ?

by russiandoll 06.07.12 9:39

I either read or heard a reference to Casa Liliana, but did not hear anything on the video clip stating he did not think Murat was involved, although in one translation I read these words were attributed to him.

by ProfessorPPlum 06.07.12 9:47

buscadora Matilda wrote:Good morning,

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I vaguely remember a Mr. Birch from South Africa that appeared already in July/August 2007 in PdL with a strange apparatus claiming he could find the body,

No - that was Danie Krügel

by Guest 06.07.12 9:48

buscadora Matilda wrote:Good morning,

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I vaguely remember a Mr. Birch from South Africa that appeared already in July/August 2007 in PdL with a strange apparatus claiming he could find the body, if there was any at all? I think he was engaged on request of the MCs. I don't exactly have a good memory for names, but when I saw the Birch interview yesterday it just crossed my mind. In the interview he claims being into the case for more than a year now, but then what happened to the time before?

Sorry, this is my first post and I am going to introduce myself briefly in the welcome forum.

Welcome to the forum buscadora Matilda Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 4 4239481642

I think you might be thinking of Daniel Krugel, there is a whole chapter on him here on this forum in Gonacalo Amarals book..........

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4924-chapter-6-death-said-krugel-eddie-and-keela?highlight=daniel+krugel

by OpenMind 06.07.12 9:50

Wow, this story now on Yahoo UK news site too. Wonder what the mood is like in the Mccann camp today???

by buscadora Matilda 06.07.12 9:54

"Welcome to the forum buscadora Matilda Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 4 4239481642

I think you might be thinking of Daniel Krugel, there is a whole chapter on him here on this forum in Gonacalo Amarals book..........

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4924-chapter-6-death-said-krugel-eddie-and-keela?highlight=daniel+krugel[/quote]"

Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 4 219423

Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 4 219423

Oh yes, my mistake! Sorry! Strange accumulation of blokes from South Africa.

by Guest 06.07.12 9:56

Interesting tweet.....

Syn0nymph ‏@Syn0nymph

#mccann I have just spoken to an officer at Interpol in Portugal who told me that although he could not (cont) http://tl.gd/i6jsnl

"I have just spoken to an officer at Interpol in Portugal who told me that although he could not officially confirm that the PJ were looking into the claims of Stephen Birch he did explain that the case is NOT closed. He said it never has been and went on to explain that under Portuguese law a case is only closed for two reasons. The first is when someone is charged and convicted for the crime and the second is when the case has reached it's expiration date which in the case of Madeleine Mccann is 20 years from 3/5/2007. Until then cases are in a sleeping status.

He also expressed his frustration that there is such confusion in the UK over the status of the #mccann case."

by russiandoll 06.07.12 9:58

what is the motivation behind this out of the blue story in the press I wonder.

posted on twitter within last 30 minutes
"I have just spoken to an officer at Interpol in Portugal who told me that although he could not officially confirm that the PJ were looking into the claims of Stephen Birch he did explain that the case is NOT closed. He said it never has been and went on to explain that under Portuguese law a case is only closed for two reasons. The first is when someone is charged and convicted for the crime and the second is when the case has reached it's expiration date which in the case of Madeleine Mccann is 20 years from 3/5/2007. Until then cases are in a sleeping status.

He also expressed his frustration that there is such confusion in the UK over the status of the #mccann case."

by russiandoll 06.07.12 10:04

sorry Candyfloss, your post duplicated as I just posted same from twitter on the related topic about SB

by Hummingbird 06.07.12 10:12

This is very disturbing news, lets hope it isn't a body. IF there is something there and there is any truth to this story let us hope that it is could be vital evidence that could help solve this truly horrible case. Perhaps it is the blue sports bag, towel, blanket, clothes etc that could lead to other areas, these things have all certainly gone missing and they have to be somewhere?? When one thinks about it, if you have a person you have named as a prime suspect, who then has his house and garden thoroughly searched by police and trained dogs and who is then eventually given a massive payout for being wrongly accused - it is a 'perfect' hiding place'. No one would look there again BUT if they did and something was found the finger of blame would shoot straight back at Murat leaving everyone involved in this shouting 'we told you so'.
There has been a 'silence' to this case recently that I have found very strange almost the lull before the storm, something is brewing and there have been very strange goings on with other sites - is this the news that made a certain persons 'blood run cold' or are we just dealing with a complete nutcase?? I suppose we will have to wait and see what happens over the course of the next few days and try not to speculate too much but I would imagine there is a certain person, who seems to have gone very quiet over the past couple of months (very strangely so) who must be regretting these words 'find the body and prove we did it!'

by Liz Eagles 06.07.12 10:24

Here is my opinion for what it's worth re the interview Stephen Birch gave at Lisbon airport.

A man from South Africa, Stephen Birch takes an interest in Madeleine's disappearance. He spends a year reading through the available case files, he even mentions the number of them. He decides to take action. He 'wants closure'. His quest has cost him emotionally and financially he intimates. He procures state of the art geo equipment (do you take that on a plane like a laptop? or is more certification/shipping required?). He takes a couple of people with him to PDL and stakes out the Murat's villa. He then breaks into their garden on four separate occasions when he thinks it's safe to be undiscovered. He scans the earth with said equipment and apparently finds a reading. He explains that the reading is because a gap occurs when a corpse decomposes and shrinks. He tells us the new driveway in the garden of the house is secondary and has no purpose - you can barely turn a car around in it! He goes on to say (at Lisbon airport - just as he is leaving) he has lawyers in UK and South Africa. He speaks of the difficulties of investigating the case from the Portuguese police perspective. He speaks of language differences. He does not say if he has engaged the services of a Portuguese lawyer or whether he has taken advice from them or understands Portuguese law.

I'm certain he understands that breaking into someone's property is against the law of any land. I'm fairly certain he understands that it's not right to compromise an investigation. I'm fairly certain he has a wider agenda. just my opinion.

by Pershing36 06.07.12 10:24

There is something peculiar about all this and I can't put my finger on it.

Stephen Birch is obviously not a poor man, by the sounds of it quite the contrary. He has admitted breaking and entry which I can not support and have to agree with the pro's that sneaking round and old ladies garden is not acceptable. He seems to have put himself in a position of being charged with breaking and entry and knowing who everything has gone in the past he will probably be sued.

I gather he was not blinding search the grounds with this equipment, so he must have been working on intelligence. I wonder what line of investigation led him to believe that there is a body there.

He is either very sure about this or rather foolish because the press and supporters will give him hell.

by crewman 06.07.12 10:30

Sky's website is covering this too:

British detectives are examining an extraordinary claim that Madeleine McCann's body is buried near the holiday apartment from where she vanished.

There's an interesting last sentence in that report:

Her parents Kate and Gerry McCann believe she is still alive and would not comment on Mr Birch's claims.

Hmmm.....

by pennylane 06.07.12 10:31

Just when they all thought it was safe to go back into the water! Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 4 1135810427

by carly1979 06.07.12 10:36

Pershing36 wrote:There is something peculiar about all this and I can't put my finger on it.

Stephen Birch is obviously not a poor man, by the sounds of it quite the contrary. He has admitted breaking and entry which I can not support and have to agree with the pro's that sneaking round and old ladies garden is not acceptable. He seems to have put himself in a position of being charged with breaking and entry and knowing who everything has gone in the past he will probably be sued.

I gather he was not blinding search the grounds with this equipment, so he must have been working on intelligence. I wonder what line of investigation led him to believe that there is a body there.

He is either very sure about this or rather foolish because the press and supporters will give him hell.

the pros already are!!!

by margaret 06.07.12 10:52

Pershing36 wrote:There is something peculiar about all this and I can't put my finger on it.

Stephen Birch is obviously not a poor man, by the sounds of it quite the contrary. He has admitted breaking and entry which I can not support and have to agree with the pro's that sneaking round and old ladies garden is not acceptable. He seems to have put himself in a position of being charged with breaking and entry and knowing who everything has gone in the past he will probably be sued.

I gather he was not blinding search the grounds with this equipment, so he must have been working on intelligence. I wonder what line of investigation led him to believe that there is a body there.

He is either very sure about this or rather foolish because the press and supporters will give him hell.

I just don't understand how the owners of a property couldn't know that a body had been buried in their garden, you'd see a disturbance. And the ground sinks after a few weeks, l know as l've buried pets. Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 4 173510

Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 4 173510

I can't see why he's putting his neck on the line like this?

by Pershing36 06.07.12 10:52

carly1979 wrote:
the pros already are!!!

I know its the only comical thing about this case. I see a lot of them are now ground penetrating radar experts and are suggesting the equipment he used is rubbish.

I see they are already suggesting that it is probably household rubbish buried, lol. It might well be but I tend to stick mine in the dustbin and not dig a hole in my garden and bury it. titter

by bristow 06.07.12 11:16

"Her parents Kate and Gerry McCann believe she is still alive and would not comment on Mr Birch's claims."

I'm sure any 'normal' couple whose daughter had been missing all this time would be chomping at the bit to have police once again search and dig in this spot to put their minds at rest.

We shall see.

ps I personally think that it should without doubt be investigated it would be madness not to.

Do you think that the Police (SY or PJ) will be duty bound to investigate this thoroughly, ie dig the ground again?

by russiandoll 06.07.12 11:52

not sure, it might turn out that it has been fed to the press with an agenda when looked into thoroughly. Where did it originate and what is the motive for putting this information in the press? Did the police receive it first and how reliable and trustworthy is Mr Birch, who is he ?

by **PeterMac** 06.07.12 11:59

http://www.portugaldailyview.com/whats-new/madeleine-mccann-new-clue-is-being-investigated-by-portuguese-authorities

Every time Murat left the house, Birch used his GPR to search for the girl’s body and claims to have found it after discovering an anomaly in the “northeastern corner of the house” about 60cm below surface, where cement pavement was added shortly after Maddie disappeared.
Despite the case being shelved for lack of evidence in 2008, two teams of investigators of the Portuguese and British police forces are currently shifting through the files and looking into possible new angles. According to several sources, the police are following up on the new clue despite having conducted searches and dug up Murat’s property in the past.

We shall see.

by margaret 06.07.12 12:03

Pershing36 wrote:
carly1979 wrote:
the pros already are!!!

I know its the only comical thing about this case. I see a lot of them are now ground penetrating radar experts and are suggesting the equipment he used is rubbish.

Makes a change from them all being lawyers and expert on libel laws. Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 4 82678

by russiandoll 06.07.12 12:10

The 600mm I read is only 24", very shallow. Pointless for us to speculate on any of this I guess; all has gone very quiet after the explosion on to the scene of this news yesterday.