COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: Legal Issues :: Carter-Ruck: McCanns v Bennett Contempt of Court
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COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
There have been urgent communications between the High Court and Carter-Ruck both on Friday and today.
It is certain that Carter-Ruck did not let me know the proposed date of the hearing. It looks likely that the High Court either did not do so, or made a mistake with my address.
Be that as it may, the case will now be listed for 1.5 days:
EITHER on 4th and 5th February
OR 5th and 6th February.
I should be able to let you you know one way or another by the close of play tomorrow.
About the court case:
Can I just make one or two matters clear about the case.
This hearing is ONLY about WHETHER I have been guilty of contempt of court by breaching any of the 16 undertakings I gave to the High Court on 25 November 2009, and IF SO, how I should be punished for any such contempt.
It is NOT a libel trial as such.
It will NOT determine my application to revoke or vary the three 'free speech' undertakings I gave, i.e. not to suggest that the McCanns have done certain things.
If you read Mr Justice Tugendhat's judgment carefully, he DOES say that this hearing next month should consider whether there should now be a FULL LIBEL TRIAL to follow. If YES, then that libel trial would consider any and all of the following:
1. Whether, in the '60 Reasons' booklet, or in the '10 Reasons' leaflet, or elsewhere, I committed any libel at all against the McCanns in the first place
2. Whether since then (i.e. since the undertakings were given) I have committed any further libels, and
3. Whether or not I should be released from one or more of the undertakings I gave which essentially impacted on my freedom of speech (Article 10 European Convention on Human Rights).
The current position of the two parties is as follows:
The McCanns say that I am guilty of repeated and serious breaches of a solemn court undertaking not to libel them, and should be punished accordingly. In all fairness I would remind everyone that Isabel Martorell (formerly Hudson), partner of Carter-Ruck, did say in her original Affidavit to the Court that though the McCanns had applied for me to be sent to prison, because they said they had 'no option', they would be reluctant to see me actually jailed.
The McCanns, though having initiated a formal LIBEL CLAIM against in November 2009, and then asked for the proceedings to be STAYED (= adjourned), now OPPOSE even the formal hearing of my request for three of the undertakings to be varied. Their position appears to be (I hope I am not being unfair to them): "You voluntarily gave these solemn undertakings, you are bound by them FOR LIFE, whatever happens".
Mr Justice Tugendhat said that the appropriate forum to hear my counter-application would be to LIFT THE STAY on the libel proceedings - and THEN begin a formal, full libel trial (which I reluctantly concede I would have to face, and for certain without the benefit of Legal Aid, as Legal Aid is NEVER EVER awarded to defend a libel claim). I need the STAY to be lifted, so that I can (A) run my defence of 'fair or honest' comment to the original allegation of libel and (B) apply for my undertakings to be revoked or varied.
I have applied for the 'stay' on the libel proceedings to be lifted SO THAT I can then make my case for the three undertakings to be revoked.
The McCanns strongly oppose this.
I'm sorry it's complicated. But then, even Mr Justice Tugendhat at the last hearing when he made his various rulings, said, and I quote:
"I don't think there's ever been a case like this"
It is certain that Carter-Ruck did not let me know the proposed date of the hearing. It looks likely that the High Court either did not do so, or made a mistake with my address.
Be that as it may, the case will now be listed for 1.5 days:
EITHER on 4th and 5th February
OR 5th and 6th February.
I should be able to let you you know one way or another by the close of play tomorrow.
About the court case:
Can I just make one or two matters clear about the case.
This hearing is ONLY about WHETHER I have been guilty of contempt of court by breaching any of the 16 undertakings I gave to the High Court on 25 November 2009, and IF SO, how I should be punished for any such contempt.
It is NOT a libel trial as such.
It will NOT determine my application to revoke or vary the three 'free speech' undertakings I gave, i.e. not to suggest that the McCanns have done certain things.
If you read Mr Justice Tugendhat's judgment carefully, he DOES say that this hearing next month should consider whether there should now be a FULL LIBEL TRIAL to follow. If YES, then that libel trial would consider any and all of the following:
1. Whether, in the '60 Reasons' booklet, or in the '10 Reasons' leaflet, or elsewhere, I committed any libel at all against the McCanns in the first place
2. Whether since then (i.e. since the undertakings were given) I have committed any further libels, and
3. Whether or not I should be released from one or more of the undertakings I gave which essentially impacted on my freedom of speech (Article 10 European Convention on Human Rights).
The current position of the two parties is as follows:
The McCanns say that I am guilty of repeated and serious breaches of a solemn court undertaking not to libel them, and should be punished accordingly. In all fairness I would remind everyone that Isabel Martorell (formerly Hudson), partner of Carter-Ruck, did say in her original Affidavit to the Court that though the McCanns had applied for me to be sent to prison, because they said they had 'no option', they would be reluctant to see me actually jailed.
The McCanns, though having initiated a formal LIBEL CLAIM against in November 2009, and then asked for the proceedings to be STAYED (= adjourned), now OPPOSE even the formal hearing of my request for three of the undertakings to be varied. Their position appears to be (I hope I am not being unfair to them): "You voluntarily gave these solemn undertakings, you are bound by them FOR LIFE, whatever happens".
Mr Justice Tugendhat said that the appropriate forum to hear my counter-application would be to LIFT THE STAY on the libel proceedings - and THEN begin a formal, full libel trial (which I reluctantly concede I would have to face, and for certain without the benefit of Legal Aid, as Legal Aid is NEVER EVER awarded to defend a libel claim). I need the STAY to be lifted, so that I can (A) run my defence of 'fair or honest' comment to the original allegation of libel and (B) apply for my undertakings to be revoked or varied.
I have applied for the 'stay' on the libel proceedings to be lifted SO THAT I can then make my case for the three undertakings to be revoked.
The McCanns strongly oppose this.
I'm sorry it's complicated. But then, even Mr Justice Tugendhat at the last hearing when he made his various rulings, said, and I quote:
"I don't think there's ever been a case like this"
____________________
Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"
Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".
Tony Bennett- Researcher
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Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
I'm sorry Tony - was he refering to the disappearance of Madeleine or McCann v Benntt??Tony Bennett wrote:
I'm sorry it's complicated. But then, even Mr Justice Tugendhat at the last hearing when he made his various rulings, said, and I quote:
"I don't think there's ever been a case like this"
monkey mind- Posts : 616
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Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
Tony Bennett wrote:
"I don't think there's ever been a case like this"
History in the making. Maybe not a bad thing to get it to a full libel trial? Surely the press would be interested in a historical case like this?
Or Ian Hislop?
Guest- Guest
Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
If I remember correctly, I mentioned in a post yesterday that this case would be postponed. Now let me predict the next fake "SIGHTING" towards the end of January.
Observer- Posts : 68
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Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
You come in with nothing...you go out with nothing...what you lost?...Nothing
Hope you win though
saltnpepper- Posts : 154
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Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
Mr. Bennett ,saltnpepper wrote:
You come in with nothing...you go out with nothing...what you lost?...Nothing
Hope you win though
What do you mean "I don't think there as never been a case like this" ? Your part in this case is quite trivial in the scheme of things. It probably won't even make the red tops.
Do you get it yet Mr. Bennett ?
No one on here cares about you and what you are going through at all. Your posts are mostly ignored.
You have persecuted the McCann's for years and now you will reap what you have sowed.
Amen to that.x.
neeley111- Posts : 3
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Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
You don't mind if I quote you to Admin, do you?neeley111 wrote:Mr. Bennett ,saltnpepper wrote:
You come in with nothing...you go out with nothing...what you lost?...Nothing
Hope you win though
What do you mean "I don't think there as never been a case like this" ? Your part in this case is quite trivial in the scheme of things. It probably won't even make the red tops.
Do you get it yet Mr. Bennett ?
No one on here cares about you and what you are going through at all. Your posts are mostly ignored.
You have persecuted the McCann's for years and now you will reap what you have sowed.
Amen to that.x.
This IMO is the kind of stuff you could have PM-ed.
Whatever your thoughts or feelings, I read this as offensive and aggressive, without having part or parcel with Tony. It just isn't the right way to ventilate whatever.
Good night.
Guest- Guest
Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
You're wrong about that, neeley. people you've no idea even exist care what happens in that courtroom. Even people who don't see eye to eye with Tony care very much what happens in the Royal Court of Justice.
Guest- Guest
Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
Tony, can you tell us why the three undertakings are so important to you? I'm not sure what they are, but I'm certain in saying whatever they are if they were lifted you still wouldn't be allowed to be as categorical about the cadaver dogs as you were on the Aussie forum. If Mr Grime were in the courtroom with you he couldn't be so categorical himself, and he's an expert.
So, are you really sure the three undertakings are worth fighting over?
So, are you really sure the three undertakings are worth fighting over?
Guest- Guest
Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
You're wrong about that, neeley. people you've no idea even exist care what happens in that courtroom. Even people who don't see eye to eye with Tony care very much what happens in the Royal Court of Justice.
I second that, tcat.
____________________
There is a taint of death, a flavour of mortality in lies... Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad
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Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
Neeley111, what a waste of time and money it was sending you to charm school. You mentioned in your first post that you were not the person with a similar name on PFA2.
I presume that is a cesspit site - I'm sure you'll be welcomed there with open arms if so.
This case is a vital one for the preservation of free speech.
I presume that is a cesspit site - I'm sure you'll be welcomed there with open arms if so.
This case is a vital one for the preservation of free speech.
Guest- Guest
Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
neeley111 wrote:Mr. Bennett ,saltnpepper wrote:
You come in with nothing...you go out with nothing...what you lost?...Nothing
Hope you win though
What do you mean "I don't think there as never been a case like this" ? Your part in this case is quite trivial in the scheme of things. It probably won't even make the red tops.
Do you get it yet Mr. Bennett ?
No one on here cares about you and what you are going through at all. Your posts are mostly ignored.
You have persecuted the McCann's for years and now you will reap what you have sowed.
Amen to that.x.
Firstly, the quote was from the Judge, so read the posts properly, and secondly if people didn't know about Tony Bennett before, they sure will shortly, as I am pretty sure it will be in the papers. If you are here only to attack Tony, then I suggest you go back from whence you came, and we can guess where that is.
Guest- Guest
Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
Jean wrote:Neeley111, what a waste of time and money it was sending you to charm school. You mentioned in your first post that you were not the person with a similar name on PFA2.
I presume that is a cesspit site - I'm sure you'll be welcomed there with open arms if so.
This case is a vital one for the preservation of free speech.
You have just proved what everyone has said about you Jean!!
neeley111- Posts : 3
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Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
I'm probably going to regret asking this but what has everyone said about me?
Guest- Guest
Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
Best to just ignore people with disordered personalities - it just wants a reaction.
Woofer- Posts : 3390
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Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
neeley111 wrote:Jean wrote:Neeley111, what a waste of time and money it was sending you to charm school. You mentioned in your first post that you were not the person with a similar name on PFA2.
I presume that is a cesspit site - I'm sure you'll be welcomed there with open arms if so.
This case is a vital one for the preservation of free speech.
You have just proved what everyone has said about you Jean!!
I think Tony's post about the new date for the case and the new forum header has got them frothing again Jean
Guest- Guest
Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
Maybe so and perhaps also the topic about the latest bully boy tactics from Carter-Ruck has brought out a lot of life from all those unturned stones.
Folks, it's after midnight - don't feed the trolls as they turn into gremlins!
Folks, it's after midnight - don't feed the trolls as they turn into gremlins!
Guest- Guest
Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
neeley111 wrote:Mr. Bennett ,saltnpepper wrote:
You come in with nothing...you go out with nothing...what you lost?...Nothing
Hope you win though
What do you mean "I don't think there as never been a case like this" ? Your part in this case is quite trivial in the scheme of things. It probably won't even make the red tops.
Do you get it yet Mr. Bennett ?
No one on here cares about you and what you are going through at all. Your posts are mostly ignored.
You have persecuted the McCann's for years and now you will reap what you have sowed.
Amen to that.x.
Aggressive and abusive newbie - what is your problem neeley? Do you no understand English?
A lot of people DO care about TB's and his Campaign for the Truth; and his basic human right to freedom of speech.
If you said his posts are mostly ignored, by who? Not you obviously else you would not be so worked up about it?
The wise Judge said that and I interpret it as "he's never seen a case like this ie where parents of a missing child bullied people into silence without their libel filing going to trial."
Since you said TB posts are mostly ignored, more so the Mccanns have nothing to worry about then? So why are they stalking TB every post then using them to prosecute him - have you written your children neglector-heros to ask why they waste time and money ( not from their own pocket) stalking and prosecuting TB when their priority should lie with the Search?
Remember they lost a child through neglect? Or did they?
Now who is persecuting who?
Think about it, why should the mccanns care what other people here or in the street said about them when they couldn't be arsed to clear their name by answering 48 SIMPLE questions or cooperating with investigators?
Bear in mind they could easily prove their non-involvement, if not total innocent since they did neglect her - they conceded that - by asking for the process to be reopened. AS in being proactive in asking, not just empty talk on papers and spin and NO ACTION.
What are they afraid of? Do you seriously think their litigations are about Madeleine?
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Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
Why all this stalling, are the mccanns waiting for Mr Amarals case to be heard first or will they try to stall that as well,or are they waiting to see what the review kicks up, I have said it before that the mccanns do not want this to go to court.
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Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
Isn't it likely that this court case, which has dragged on for years now, so far has only served to keep the interest in the case going?
I would estimate that quite a large percentage of guests visit this site regularly to see how this case is progressing. Over the years, that's quite a lot of information disseminated to the 'general public'.
I would estimate that quite a large percentage of guests visit this site regularly to see how this case is progressing. Over the years, that's quite a lot of information disseminated to the 'general public'.
____________________
Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.
Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
Murder trials with no 'body' take less time to come to court. Isn't the April Jones trial due this month? correct me if I'm wrong.
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Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
The Depuy Court Manager in the High Court Queen's Bench Division Listing Office, Mr James Tipp, has just informed me that the hearing of McCanns v Bennett (case HQ 09 D 05196) is now listed for:
TUESDAY 5 FEBRUARY 2013 and
WEDNESDAY 6 FEBRUARY 2013
TUESDAY 5 FEBRUARY 2013 and
WEDNESDAY 6 FEBRUARY 2013
____________________
Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"
Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".
Tony Bennett- Researcher
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Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
So that is confirmed.
New sighting, Monday 4th February.
But we still don't know where . . .
New sighting, Monday 4th February.
But we still don't know where . . .
Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
PeterMac wrote:So that is confirmed.
New sighting, Monday 4th February.
But we still don't know where . . .
Saturday 2nd February in time for the Sunday newspaper reports.
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Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
I don't think they would want to draw attention to Madeleine or to themselves prior to the trials because the less the public knows about facts the bigger their scope for spinning the outcome and cashing in on their sympathy. So if they can arrange such a thing, they would go for a big headline totally unrelated to themselves imo.aquila wrote:PeterMac wrote:So that is confirmed.
New sighting, Monday 4th February.
But we still don't know where . . .
Saturday 2nd February in time for the Sunday newspaper reports.
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There is a taint of death, a flavour of mortality in lies... Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad
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Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
I would be grateful if you did not attempt to speak for everyone on this forum...you certainly don't speak for me/ I support Tony fully and I believe him to be a brave, decent and honest man who has had the guts to stand and be counted for the sake of a little girl whom he did not, and will never, know personally. I wish I were as brave. Good luck Tony and may the best man win xneeley111 wrote:Mr. Bennett ,saltnpepper wrote:
You come in with nothing...you go out with nothing...what you lost?...Nothing
Hope you win though
What do you mean "I don't think there as never been a case like this" ? Your part in this case is quite trivial in the scheme of things. It probably won't even make the red tops.
Do you get it yet Mr. Bennett ?
No one on here cares about you and what you are going through at all. Your posts are mostly ignored.
You have persecuted the McCann's for years and now you will reap what you have sowed.
Amen to that.x.
____________________
.George
Galloway, MP: "The McCanns have either been the victims of a
cataclysmic historic injustice, almost unprecedented, or they have been
complicit in a scheme so duplicitous, so evil, so foul that Shakespeare
himself could not have written it.".........
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Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
neeley111 wrote:Mr. Bennett ,saltnpepper wrote:
You come in with nothing...you go out with nothing...what you lost?...Nothing
Hope you win though
What do you mean "I don't think there as never been a case like this" ? Your part in this case is quite trivial in the scheme of things. It probably won't even make the red tops.
Do you get it yet Mr. Bennett ?
No one on here cares about you and what you are going through at all. Your posts are mostly ignored.
You have persecuted the McCann's for years and now you will reap what you have sowed.
Amen to that.x.
Oh i think you do care neeley111 ,thats why your here having your say,shame you couldnt thank tony after all he is the one trying to find out what happend to Madeleine,just a shame her parents dont want to know only to sue.
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Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
tigger wrote:Isn't it likely that this court case, which has dragged on for years now, so far has only served to keep the interest in the case going?
I would estimate that quite a large percentage of guests visit this site regularly to see how this case is progressing. Over the years, that's quite a lot of information disseminated to the 'general public'.
Yes but the threat to Tony is serving to silence one and all including the press. Once the libel versus fair comment issue is clarified it could allow the floodgates to open and theories to be widely debated without the fear of hefty libel damages etc. This is why so many are visiting this site to follow progress. I agree with Tiny - the McCs won't let this come to court and will try to settle beforehand.
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Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
Which is code for will try to bully him sufficiently beforehand.roy rovers wrote:- the McCs won't let this come to court and will try to settle beforehand.
Re: COURT DATE NOW CONFIRMED: Tues 5th and Weds 6th February 2013
I thought that Internet libel laws were quite lax; especially in relation to a bit of a chat on a forum, which can hardly do the reputation of the McCanns much damage. In contrast, the McCanns give their version of events to millions around the world on TV chat shows; a version that isn't supported by the official findings of the police investigation.
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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: Legal Issues :: Carter-Ruck: McCanns v Bennett Contempt of Court
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