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Tory MP WARNED Simon Danczuk to back-off Westminster child abuse scandal

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Re: Tory MP WARNED Simon Danczuk to back-off Westminster child abuse scandal

Post by Woofer on 08.07.14 23:34

Don`t think he`s a close relation missbeetle.  His mother`s maiden name was Hoyle and Sir Derek`s wife was a West.  He comes from Chippenham and Sir Derek was from Newcastle.

Whatever - he`s well and truly a government man - hardly independent.

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Re: Tory MP WARNED Simon Danczuk to back-off Westminster child abuse scandal

Post by BlueBag on 09.07.14 9:00

It's already looking like a Dr David Kelly inquiry.

Wasn't there a conversation between Tony Blair and Rebekah Brooks about this kind of thing?

This country is sick at the top.

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Re: Tory MP WARNED Simon Danczuk to back-off Westminster child abuse scandal

Post by Dont Make Me Laff on 09.07.14 9:05

The Turks have a homely proverb : they say "the fish stinks first at the head", meaning, that if the servant is disorderly, it is because the master is so.

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Re: Tory MP WARNED Simon Danczuk to back-off Westminster child abuse scandal

Post by BlueBag on 09.07.14 11:31

What's that smell?

OH.Elizabeth Butler-Sloss is the sister of 1980s Attornery General Sir Michael Havers.


That's what the smell is.

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Re: Tory MP WARNED Simon Danczuk to back-off Westminster child abuse scandal

Post by Bishop Brennan on 09.07.14 12:56

@plebgate wrote:An 80 year old heading this enquiry?   Whaaatttt?????  Can't believe it.

Yet another DC 'misjudgment' - 80...    Sister to the attorney general at the time....   retired...   from a different era.    The head of this thing has to be someone who understands what is acceptable NOW.  Not what the establishment believed some 35 years ago.  An establishment that she was a member of her entire life...

Extraordinary appointment in its stupidity.  Trumpeting again how out of touch DC and his team really are.  And interestingly the link to her brother (Havers) was only picked up by the Internet.  All the MSM were trumpeting this morning in print about how she is "an excellent choice" /  "woman of immense integrity... etc etc".   They are belatedly (and online) reporting the association with Havers, but they all missed it.  Not a journalist amongst them any more.

Thank goodness for the internet!

80...   Still cannot believe it!

 wft

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Re: Tory MP WARNED Simon Danczuk to back-off Westminster child abuse scandal

Post by Woofer on 09.07.14 13:45

@BlueBag wrote:What's that smell?

OH.Elizabeth Butler-Sloss is the sister of 1980s Attornery General Sir Michael Havers.


That's what the smell is.

Elizabeth Butler-Sloss was also Deputy Coroner at the Princess Diana Inquest and we know how beautifully that went for the establishment/royals.

To her credit - in the Cleveland Enquiry her report was critical of Marietta Higgs who had over 100 children taken from their parents because she reckoned that had been sexually abused (she did some sort of test on their rectums and came to the decision they had all been abused) - it was horrific that so many children were separated from their parents and treated so badly. btw Marietta Higgs is still practising.

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Re: Tory MP WARNED Simon Danczuk to back-off Westminster child abuse scandal

Post by Bishop Brennan on 09.07.14 18:36

All of these recent stories and scandals show us how breathtakingly powerful the 'establishment' has been.  It is effectively untouchable - throwing an occasional sacrifice onto the bonfires to appease the mobs.   But the internet appears to be threatening this status quo.  Almost all of the recent horrors have been circulating on the internet long before they appear in MSM.  

And it is only when you really dig into the detail (on the internet) that you realise just how badly stories are reported in our media.  Lazy, inaccurate, and so easily fobbed off.  And of course this is how it has always been.  The MSM itself I don't think will change much, but the power, reach and credibility of the internet researchers and investigators is growing steadily.  It is no longer good enough to call them 'conspiracy theorists' or 'internet trolls'.   The only conspiracies appear to be the ones that are being uncovered.  

And yet the establishment remains all powerful.  Dodgy dossiers / inappropriate appointments for "enquiries" / shredding of documents with impunity / briefings to the MSM printed uncritically.  Even when the research brings a story to light, it lacks the executive or judicial powers to see it through.   All of which is very frustrating.  Before social media we all lived in blissful, if slightly suspicious, ignorance.  Now we can see the truth, and we see it being hushed up or minimised almost immediately.    

Rant over.  

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Connections...

Post by missbeetle on 09.07.14 21:33

From the website of the Poringland Women's Institute, I see that ladies from Norfolk visited Masonic Hall, Home of Freemasonry.

This was in September, 2011. They noted :


"
(clipped from the front page of today's Express, online edition)

That's a horrible ring Nigel is displaying.

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Re: Tory MP WARNED Simon Danczuk to back-off Westminster child abuse scandal

Post by tasprin on 09.07.14 22:26

The Slog
THE PAEDOFILE: It’s an Enquiry landslide….nothing like a landslide for covering things up.
By John Ward July 9, 2014
PROOF POSITIVE THAT NOBODY IN GOVERNMENT CAN UNDERSTAND 4-SYLLABLE WORDS

The British Establishment is still struggling with the meaning of the word ‘Independent’. It likes to think of us as an independent Sovereign State, but wriggles like a ticklish teen out of every opportunity it gets handed on a plate – from Juncker yomping to Rompuy revenge – to leave the EU. Now further evidence is emerging that there seems to be some confusion in the Westminster/Whitehall Blackmailer Belt about whether a large number of obviously pre-programmed Enquiries = an independent outcome.

Mr Peter Wanless of the entirely unblemished NSPCC having been appointed by his fellow-Tory Theresa May to conduct an independent Enquiry into whether Theresa May’s Tory Home Office antecedents destroyed, lost and variously rendered non-existent 114 documents relating to former Tory Home Secretary and paedophile suspect Leon Brittan, Elizabeth Butler-Sloss is to chair another Enquiry into historical sex abuse and institutional protection of children from it.

La Sloss is the late Lord Havers’ sister….as in, the same Lord Havers who spearheaded the first Elm House cover-up, and opposed the prosecution of prominent paedophile Peter Righton. If that makes her independent, then clearly Crimea remains a State entirely independent of Russia. So these are the new brooms who await us: the head of perhaps the only organisation in British sexual history (the NSPCC) suspected of both covering up and inventing cases of paedophilia at one and the same time; and the sister of the one Attorney General now suspected by almost everyone of having perverted the course of Justice, which was about its business of prosecuting Elm House-visiting perverts until he stuck his oar in.

Meanwhile, ultimate Met Police boss Tory Mayor Boris Johnson currently has his fat arse sitting on is Our Man in Richmond, ensuring that the guilty are found when it comes to the Elm House depravity.

Excellent. MP Simon Dancszuk has expressed dismay at her appointment, but an hour ago (at 11.23 am BST) Butler-Sloss was at a loss to understand why she should withdraw.
http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2014/07/09/the-paedofile-its-an-enquiry-landslide-nothing-like-a-landslide-for-covering-things-up/

THE PAEDOFILE: Wanless to head Child Abuse review
By John Ward July 8, 2014
snipped
THE GLARING POLITICISATION OF THE LAW CONTINUES…BUT THE CITIZENS ARE AT LAST GETTING WISE

On the subject of Establishment child abuse, two days ago I wrote ‘There will now (I’d imagine) be further calls for an enquiry….but destroyed evidence makes one wonder whether there really is any point in spending yet more public money when there appears to be a videotape and witnesses putting Leon Brittan at the scene of the crime.’ It now emerges that Peter Wanless, chief executive of The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC), will lead the review, Home Secretary Theresa May told the House of Commons this afternoon. Not that I want to be had up for libel here, but words like Fox, chickens, alcoholic and brewery spring to mind.

Mr Wanless is in favour of privatising Childrens’ Care Services, an idea so daft as to make one wonder whether he might next advocate selling the NHS to the ecoli virus. But equally, Wanless sits atop the NSPCC, an organisation quite rightly referred to last March as ‘Judge and Jury’ by Anna Raccoon. One way and another, the NSPCC has some very odd agendas…..but two words one cannot use to describe them, in the context of child abuse, are straightforward and unbiased. The appeal of Wanless to Camerlot, however, is that he is yet another privatising neolib fanatic whom they regard as “sound”. Meanwhile, David ‘I love my family’ Mellor has leapt to the defence of Brittan – and well he might, given that he was reporting to the man when all this unfortunate mislaying of 114 documents occurred.
http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2014/07/08/the-paedofile-wanless-to-head-child-abuse-rview/

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Re: Tory MP WARNED Simon Danczuk to back-off Westminster child abuse scandal

Post by Woofer on 09.07.14 22:43

"La Sloss is the late Lord Havers’ sister….as in, the same Lord Havers who spearheaded the first Elm House cover-up, and opposed the prosecution of prominent paedophile Peter Righton. If that makes her independent, then clearly Crimea remains a State entirely independent of Russia. So these are the new brooms who await us: the head of perhaps the only organisation in British sexual history (the NSPCC) suspected of both covering up and inventing cases of paedophilia at one and the same time; and the sister of the one Attorney General now suspected by almost everyone of having perverted the course of Justice, which was about its business of prosecuting Elm House-visiting perverts until he stuck his oar in."

Oh Tasprin - doesn`t it make your heart sink - what hope is there   sad1

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Re: Tory MP WARNED Simon Danczuk to back-off Westminster child abuse scandal

Post by plebgate on 09.07.14 23:08

@missbeetle wrote:From the website of the Poringland Women's Institute, I see that ladies from Norfolk visited Masonic Hall, Home of Freemasonry.

This was in September, 2011. They noted :


"
(clipped from the front page of today's Express, online edition)

That's a horrible ring Nigel is displaying.
Who cares what Havers thinks.   Can't understand why any of the media are interviewing him.   He's hardly likely to say that he thinks she's past it.

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Re: Tory MP WARNED Simon Danczuk to back-off Westminster child abuse scandal

Post by tasprin on 10.07.14 0:30

@Woofer wrote:"La Sloss is the late Lord Havers’ sister….as in, the same Lord Havers who spearheaded the first Elm House cover-up, and opposed the prosecution of prominent paedophile Peter Righton. If that makes her independent, then clearly Crimea remains a State entirely independent of Russia. So these are the new brooms who await us: the head of perhaps the only organisation in British sexual history (the NSPCC) suspected of both covering up and inventing cases of paedophilia at one and the same time; and the sister of the one Attorney General now suspected by almost everyone of having perverted the course of Justice, which was about its business of prosecuting Elm House-visiting perverts until he stuck his oar in."

Oh Tasprin - doesn`t it make your heart sink - what hope is there   sad1


It really does Woofer. I feel the victims of this Westminster abuse scandal may never get justice even though the children involved were the most vulnerable kids, mainly from very troubled backgrounds and placed in care - so the easiest of targets. Simon Danczuk has said he has been pressured to drop it and in the last few days certain politicians have claimed there was no dossier, just a few letters. Others have tryed to minimise the gravity of the scandal (surprisingly one of those was Lord Winston, pioneer of fertility medicine). I'm afraid it's already got the hallmarks of a whitewash and a recent report (sorry I don't have a link) stated that it will be virtually impossible to unravel this horror because only 7 Met officers have been assigned to the investigation team, Operation Fernbridge, even though it involves hundreds of abused children. Contrast that with Operation Grange, with more than 30 officers investigating the disappearance of one child (not to mention the number of PJ officers involved). Unless the press really keep up the pressure, I think it will be fairly easy for the government to whitewash this again. 

The other day I posted the following report from the Telegraph. Apparently, this witness, now in his forties, was only 8 years-old when he made a police statement naming the politician. He was recently interviewed in the US, where he lives, and was prepared to make a formal statement but has suddenly done a U-turn and refused. It wouldn't surprise meat all if he'd been got at.

Telegraph
Scotland Yard has tracked down a child at the centre of an alleged 1980s Westminster paedophile ring who has implicated a senior political figure, The Telegraph can disclose. The man - now in his 40s, whose identity is known to this newspaper - is a successful entrepreneur based in the United States and has given a detailed account of how he was assaulted by the politician. However, the alleged victim - who was initially willing to co-operate - has so far refused to make a formal statement to British detectives. Police have traced a copy of a statement he gave more than 30 years ago as a child when he was rescued from horrific sexual assault. His version of events is understood to be corroborated by a detective who conducted the official interview with the child at the time.

The Telegraph can disclose officers from the Metropolitan Police’s Operation Fernbridge - launched in February last year to examine allegations of a paedophile ring involving prominent figures - have closely examined the case of the eight-year-old alleged victim. Police are understood to have sent a United States investigator to interview the victim of alleged abuse at Elm Guest House, in Barnes, south-west London, who is now a successful businessman in his early 40s in the east coast US. A US law enforcement officer, who had recently returned home after concluding a secondment to the Fernbridge team, was asked to interview the man on Scotland Yard’s behalf earlier this year. The alleged victim is understood to have named the senior figure. During his original interview in 1982 the child referred to his abuser working at “the big house”, which detectives believe was the Houses of Parliament. The US officer reported back to Scotland Yard that the alleged victim was “ready to spill the beans” and advised them to travel to America immediately to conduct a formal interview. But by the time travel plans had been arranged, the man had changed his mind for unknown reasons and refused to co-operate, The Daily Telegraph understands.

Fernbridge detectives also interviewed a retired police officer who was involved in the original Elm Guest House investigation and who interviewed the alleged victim at the time. This newspaper understands the retired detective was reluctant to go into detail about why information about the politician was not included into witness statements at the time or submitted into evidence as part of a potential prosecution. His reluctance, which appears to reinforce the case for an amnesty, is understood to have stemmed from the policeman’s fear that he could face disciplinary action, or other legal implications, or lose his pension


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10950138/Westminster-paedophile-ring-allegations-Scotland-Yard-detectives-trace-victim.html

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Interesting choices...

Post by missbeetle on 10.07.14 0:37


(snipped from Guardian article, dated 8th July, 2014)



From the News of the World, 17th July, 1988 :



Her husband sounds like an unrepentant rotter.

I'm not a fan of her gold, dangly 'horn of plenty' earrings, either.

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Re: Tory MP WARNED Simon Danczuk to back-off Westminster child abuse scandal

Post by mouse on 10.07.14 12:54

IMO - The cover up of the cover up is unraveling day by day as the evidence piles in on how this panel is so unfit to carry out this so-called inquiry. The telegraph article today just adds to the stench! 

[size=31]Baroness Butler-Sloss criticised over previous 'flawed' paedophile report By David Barrettand Matthew Holehouse[/size]
The retired judge appointed to lead the Government's major review of child sex abuse allegations admitted 'inaccuracies' in similar report two years ago

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Re: Tory MP WARNED Simon Danczuk to back-off Westminster child abuse scandal

Post by Woofer on 10.07.14 14:35

Thanks Tasprin and MissBeetle - reading all that gives me a real sinking feeling and giving up, but hopefully there is a turning of the tide - that`s if journalists aren`t gagged any time soon.

I didn`t know about `the horn of plenty` and had to look it up :-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornucopia

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Re: Tory MP WARNED Simon Danczuk to back-off Westminster child abuse scandal

Post by comperedna on 10.07.14 16:38

To be fair... and I do agree with most of this thread... La Sloss did pull out of the Diana inquest saying that it really deserved a jury to decide. One up to her. She did sort out the dreadful Cleveland scandal where children were wantonly removed from their parents for anatomical reasons which are regularly caused by childhood constipation, when a supposed expert said the temporary state of their anuses was definite evidence of abuse. She also is the most experienced senior judge in the Family Court section, with years and years of experience of dealing with appallingly difficult cases. 

Yes, her brother was Michael Havers the AG in question, as described. Yes she is posh. Yes she is in the House of Lords. Yes she is a prime establishment figure, and it would have been far better to have been able to find someone seen to be totally independent of it. However, I do not know of anything to be said against her personal independence of mind and concern for justice for children. What her husband did or did not do, and did or did not say is irrelevant too.  I would hate to be seen to be drumming up guilt by association.

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Re: Tory MP WARNED Simon Danczuk to back-off Westminster child abuse scandal

Post by PeterMac on 10.07.14 17:19

@comperedna wrote:What her husband did or did not do, and did or did not say is irrelevant too.  I would hate to be seen to be drumming up guilt by association.

I suppose the question is this.
Is it likely that she would pen a final judgment excoriating her own brother IF, and only IF - of course- it turned out that he had been party to a cover-up, or had known or suspected, or should have known or supected . . . And IF, and only IF of course, it turned out that others had the same proclivities - whatever they in fact were - as her husband, might she feel constrained to use some form of circumlocution.
One would hope not, but in my view the task she now faces is too great for a person with her particular family background, and she should not be put in that position.

If you are called for jury service you are not allowed to pass judgment on a family member,
But she is potentially being asked to do exactly that.
No member of the prosecution or defence permitted to be involved in any personal way. Barristers are shipped in from neighbouring circuits to obviate that.
That is surely right.

All MPs, all permanent under-secretaries, all the Sir Humphreys, all the Bernard Wolleys, all the senior staff are under some form of what might loosely be called 'suspicion'

The person selected for this must have no nexus with the government or the Corridors of Power

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Re: Tory MP WARNED Simon Danczuk to back-off Westminster child abuse scandal

Post by comperedna on 10.07.14 18:45

That had not struck me Petermac. I just don't know. It sounds like too much of a risk, and a hitherto seemingly honest and competent woman should not be put in that position. Hmmmm.

BTW it is her current level of skills and functioning rather than her being 80 years old that is relevant. Don't be ageist, some of you!

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Re: Tory MP WARNED Simon Danczuk to back-off Westminster child abuse scandal

Post by mouse on 10.07.14 18:53

It is her track record I'm more concerned about, defo not her age - if you read the article in the Telegraph - where she was doing an inquiry into child abuse by Priests. She had info handed to her but didn't mention it in her report. She apologised afterwards - though it was felt that she was too ready to listen to the priests rather than victims. Doesn't bode well for an inquiry I thought was supposed to be victim lead, or at least victims listened to.

Wish I could be more hopeful

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Re: Tory MP WARNED Simon Danczuk to back-off Westminster child abuse scandal

Post by petunia on 10.07.14 23:09

She has been chosen because that silly man in government  thinks the likes of me and many many others are stupid.

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Re: Tory MP WARNED Simon Danczuk to back-off Westminster child abuse scandal

Post by Woofer on 10.07.14 23:26

Butler-Sloss apology in Parliament to Fathers For Justice for accusing them of making death threats to her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD9Sw3rxnwI&app=desktop

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Re: Tory MP WARNED Simon Danczuk to back-off Westminster child abuse scandal

Post by PeterMac on 10.07.14 23:34

@petunia wrote:She has been chosen because that silly man in government  thinks the likes of me and many many others are stupid.

Yes Minister.
At the DAA, Hacker is furious with his Permanent Secretary, Sir Humphrey Appleby.
He insists that Sir Humphrey should not have been "juggling with the figures". In reply, the mandarin states that all the Minister requested was a reduction in them — so they were reduced.
He in turn chastises the Minister for conceding a full independent inquiry.
Despondent, Hacker asks Sir Humphrey if there is any way that the inquiry could be rigged.
He is told that this is possible, providing that the chairman is "sound", and he suggests for the position a retired civil servant who is hoping for a peerage.

Sir Humphrey: "It all depends on who the enquiry’s chairman is. He absolutely has to be sound."
Jim Hacker: "What do you mean ‘sound’?"
Sir Humphrey: "A sound man will know what is required. He will perceive the implications. He will have a sympathetic insight into the problems. In short he must be sound."
Jim Hacker: "You mean… bent?"
Sir Humphrey: No no! He must be a man of broad understanding..."
Jim Hacker: "What about a retired politician?"
Sir Humphrey: "…and unimpeachable integrity."
Jim Hacker: "Ah, I see what you mean."


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Re: Tory MP WARNED Simon Danczuk to back-off Westminster child abuse scandal

Post by ultimaThule on 10.07.14 23:59

It's an exceptionally dire state of affairs when the names of those who are suitably untarnished and suitably qualified to head inquiries of this nature fail to immediately trip off the tongue and on this occasion I can only suggest that Ian Hislop is called on the make the appropriate recommendations

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Re: Tory MP WARNED Simon Danczuk to back-off Westminster child abuse scandal

Post by BlueBag on 11.07.14 7:45

Nice post PeterMac.. that is exactly how it works.

As shown by the Tony Blair/Rebekah Brooks similar conversation.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/feb/19/tony-blair-rebekah-brooks-phone-hacking

Pitchforks required....

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