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Operation Overlord. D-Day

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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by ultimaThule on 07.06.14 16:12

I'm going to raise a glass to this top man tonight: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2650882/D-Day-veteran-89-reported-missing-care-home-staff-told-travel-France-Normandy-escaping-joining-friends.html and hope that he and Irene get their centenary telegrams. In the meantime, it seems to me that Mr Jordan deserves another medal and the Freedom of Bournemouth and of Hove yes .

You've done this nation proud, Bernie, and we're immensely grateful to you and to all of your comrades in arms.

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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by bobbin on 07.06.14 16:26

@PeterMac wrote:A Little Humor

An elderly gentleman of 89 arrived in Paris by plane.
At the French Customs desk, the man took a few minutes to locate his passport in his carry-on bag.
"You have been to France before, monsieur?" the customs officer asked, sarcastically.
The elderly gentleman admitted he had been to France previously.
"Then you should know enough to have your passport ready."
The Canadian said, "The last time I was here, I didn't have to show it."
"Impossible. Canadians always have to show their passports on arrival in France!"

The Canadian senior gave the Frenchman a long hard Look.
Then he quietly explained. "Well, when I came ashore on D-Day in 1944 to help liberate this country, I couldn't find any * * *   Frenchmen to show it to !"

That's really good. Pointed indeed.  clapping 

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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by RIPM on 07.06.14 16:42

@tigger wrote:
Neither was Angela Merckel best pleased at seeing a show of black jack-booted actors, kicking hapless grey suited civilians. Vichy is forgotten it seems. De Gaulle negotiated a triumphant entry of the Free French troops marching down the Champs Elysees with himself  out in front although he was never in a combat situation in his life, I've been told.


Whoever told you De Gaulle was never in a combat situation in his life is obviously a cretin.

De Gaulle was wounded leading his troops into action recovered and was then wounded again spending four months in hospital.

Later in the war he was blown up by a mine and in 1916 was wounded by a bayonet and suffered the effect of gas poisoning.

He was captured  and made 5 escape attempts.

In WW2 he was famously shot at in Notre Dame cathedral standing firm while everyone around him dived for cover

We really should not spread unfounded aspersions

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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by PeterMac on 07.06.14 18:19

@RIPM wrote:
De Gaulle was wounded leading his troops into action recovered and was then wounded again spending four months in hospital.
Later in the war he was blown up by a mine and in 1916 was wounded by a bayonet and suffered the effect of gas poisoning.
He was captured  and made 5 escape attempts.
In WW2 he was famously shot at in Notre Dame cathedral standing firm while everyone around him dived for cover
We really should not spread unfounded aspersions

His service was almost parallel with that of Hitler, also wounded, gassed, blinded, twice decorated, . . .
What if the Treaty of Versailles had been more reasonable ?

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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by tigger on 07.06.14 20:45

@RIPM wrote:
@tigger wrote:
Neither was Angela Merckel best pleased at seeing a show of black jack-booted actors, kicking hapless grey suited civilians. Vichy is forgotten it seems. De Gaulle negotiated a triumphant entry of the Free French troops marching down the Champs Elysees with himself  out in front although he was never in a combat situation in his life, I've been told.


Whoever told you De Gaulle was never in a combat situation in his life is obviously a cretin.

De Gaulle was wounded leading his troops into action recovered and was then wounded again spending four months in hospital.

Later in the war he was blown up by a mine and in 1916 was wounded by a bayonet and suffered the effect of gas poisoning.

He was captured  and made 5 escape attempts.

In WW2 he was famously shot at in Notre Dame cathedral standing firm while everyone around him dived for cover

We really should not spread unfounded aspersions

I was talking about WWII. Never heard about the Notre Dame cathedral incident - must say if a man of his size didn't take cover I'm surprised, it sounds like an apocryphal story to me afaik he never was in Paris at the same time as the German army.

The cretin who informed me about the constant non cooperation of the Gaulle during WWII was an assistant of Jean Monnet and translated his biography into English.

De Gaulle established cooperation with Germany at the earliest opportunity and just a reminder:

Great Britain initially declined to join the Common Market, preferring to remain with another organisation known as the European Free Trade Area, mostly consisting of the northern European countries and Portugal. By the late 1950s German and French living standards began to exceed those in Britain, and the government of Harold Macmillan, realising that the EEC was a stronger trading bloc than EFTA, began negotiations to join.

De Gaulle vetoed the British application to join the European Economic Community (EEC) in 1963, famously uttering the single word 'non' into the television cameras at the critical moment, a statement used to sum up French opposition and belligerence towards Britain for many years afterwards.[108] Macmillan said afterwards that he always believed that de Gaulle would prevent Britain joining, but thought he would do it quietly, behind the scenes. He later complained privately that "all our plans are in tatters".


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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by PeterMac on 08.06.14 9:19

The old boy has been given the freedom of Brittany Ferries any time he wants to go back

In the constitution of the Durham Regatta Committee there is an item which has been retained from the original constitution of 1834. Under item K you will find;
K WATERLOO MEN
"Any man presenting himself to the Secretary who can prove he fought at the battle of Waterloo will be entitled to free ale for the day at the Committee’s expense."


Still worth a try I suppose.


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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by tigger on 08.06.14 9:36

@PeterMac wrote:The old boy has been given the freedom of Brittany Ferries any time he wants to go back

In the constitution of the Durham Regatta Committee there is an item which has been retained from the original constitution of 1834. Under item K you will find;
K         WATERLOO MEN
"Any man presenting himself to the Secretary who can prove he fought at the battle of Waterloo will be entitled to free ale for the day at the Committee’s expense."


Still worth a try I suppose.


Goodness Peter! Surely you're no that old!  big grin 

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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by aquila on 08.06.14 9:41

I'd like to think this wonderful man will receive correspondence from Buckingham Palace with an invitation to meet with the Queen and Prince Philip.

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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by RIPM on 08.06.14 12:29

@tigger wrote:
@RIPM wrote:
@tigger wrote:
Neither was Angela Merckel best pleased at seeing a show of black jack-booted actors, kicking hapless grey suited civilians. Vichy is forgotten it seems. De Gaulle negotiated a triumphant entry of the Free French troops marching down the Champs Elysees with himself  out in front although he was never in a combat situation in his life, I've been told.


Whoever told you De Gaulle was never in a combat situation in his life is obviously a cretin.

De Gaulle was wounded leading his troops into action recovered and was then wounded again spending four months in hospital.

Later in the war he was blown up by a mine and in 1916 was wounded by a bayonet and suffered the effect of gas poisoning.

He was captured  and made 5 escape attempts.

In WW2 he was famously shot at in Notre Dame cathedral standing firm while everyone around him dived for cover

We really should not spread unfounded aspersions

I was talking about WWII.   Never heard about the Notre Dame cathedral incident - must say if a man of his size didn't take cover I'm surprised, it sounds like an apocryphal story to me afaik he never was in Paris at the same time as the German army
What is the point of lying when anyone can plainly see you said in De Gaulle's lifetime? This means in his lifetime from him being born to his death.

You then compound your ignorance about events in Notre Dame when it is well documented and there is even a sound recording of the event in the BBC archive.

Your blatant racism  against a proven French war hero is pathetic and does neither you nor this forum any credit.

If your Madeleine  research is as poor there is no hope.

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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by bobbin on 08.06.14 13:34

@RIPM wrote:
@tigger wrote:
@RIPM wrote:
@tigger wrote:
Neither was Angela Merckel best pleased at seeing a show of black jack-booted actors, kicking hapless grey suited civilians. Vichy is forgotten it seems. De Gaulle negotiated a triumphant entry of the Free French troops marching down the Champs Elysees with himself  out in front although he was never in a combat situation in his life, I've been told.


Whoever told you De Gaulle was never in a combat situation in his life is obviously a cretin.

De Gaulle was wounded leading his troops into action recovered and was then wounded again spending four months in hospital.

Later in the war he was blown up by a mine and in 1916 was wounded by a bayonet and suffered the effect of gas poisoning.

He was captured  and made 5 escape attempts.

In WW2 he was famously shot at in Notre Dame cathedral standing firm while everyone around him dived for cover

We really should not spread unfounded aspersions

I was talking about WWII.   Never heard about the Notre Dame cathedral incident - must say if a man of his size didn't take cover I'm surprised, it sounds like an apocryphal story to me afaik he never was in Paris at the same time as the German army
What is the point of lying when anyone can plainly see you said in De Gaulle's lifetime? This means in his lifetime from him being born to his death.

You then compound your ignorance about events in Notre Dame when it is well documented and there is even a sound recording of the event in the BBC archive.

Your blatant racism  against a proven French war hero is pathetic and does neither you nor this forum any credit.

If your Madeleine  research is as poor there is no hope.
Rather a shocking attack RIPM on a poster whose contributions to the forum have been exemplary.
Tigger said, 'I've been told' and then goes on to say who told her.
You quote history as if it is the 'true version' yet as we all know, history is told as from the eye of the beholder.
You may vehemently see DeGaulle as a 'Proven French war hero', many other people may not do so.
It is irrelevant vis a vis this forum and the excellent work done by tigger,and to attack tigger's research work, based on your own sentiments is unpleasant, and in my opinion, reflects more on you.
Let it be remembered that the 'terrorist' seen from the opposing side, is the 'freedom fighter' seen from the on-side, and 'history' is recorded differently, according to these 'positions' and both sides have their arguments.
One may only agree "politely" to differ if one is to retain one's own dignity and credibility.


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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by RIPM on 08.06.14 17:14

@bobbin wrote:
@RIPM wrote:
@tigger wrote:
@RIPM wrote:
@tigger wrote:
Neither was Angela Merckel best pleased at seeing a show of black jack-booted actors, kicking hapless grey suited civilians. Vichy is forgotten it seems. De Gaulle negotiated a triumphant entry of the Free French troops marching down the Champs Elysees with himself  out in front although he was never in a combat situation in his life, I've been told.


Whoever told you De Gaulle was never in a combat situation in his life is obviously a cretin.

De Gaulle was wounded leading his troops into action recovered and was then wounded again spending four months in hospital.

Later in the war he was blown up by a mine and in 1916 was wounded by a bayonet and suffered the effect of gas poisoning.

He was captured  and made 5 escape attempts.

In WW2 he was famously shot at in Notre Dame cathedral standing firm while everyone around him dived for cover

We really should not spread unfounded aspersions

I was talking about WWII.   Never heard about the Notre Dame cathedral incident - must say if a man of his size didn't take cover I'm surprised, it sounds like an apocryphal story to me afaik he never was in Paris at the same time as the German army
What is the point of lying when anyone can plainly see you said in De Gaulle's lifetime? This means in his lifetime from him being born to his death.

You then compound your ignorance about events in Notre Dame when it is well documented and there is even a sound recording of the event in the BBC archive.

Your blatant racism  against a proven French war hero is pathetic and does neither you nor this forum any credit.

If your Madeleine  research is as poor there is no hope.
Rather a shocking attack RIPM on a poster whose contributions to the forum have been exemplary.
Tigger said, 'I've been told' and then goes on to say who told her.
You quote history as if it is the 'true version' yet as we all know, history is told as from the eye of the beholder.
You may vehemently see DeGaulle as a 'Proven French war hero', many other people may not do so.
It is irrelevant vis a vis this forum and the excellent work done by tigger,and to attack tigger's research work, based on your own sentiments is unpleasant, and in my opinion, reflects more on you.
Let it be remembered that the 'terrorist' seen from the opposing side, is the 'freedom fighter' seen from the on-side, and 'history' is recorded differently, according to these 'positions' and both sides have their arguments.
One may only agree "politely" to differ if one is to retain one's own dignity and credibility.

So it would seem if its a British soldier showing extraordinary bravery his war record must be true BUT because its a FRENCHMAN who has
been wounded several times, gassed, blown up and spent months in a military hospital his records must have been embellished.

It is very sad to see such blatant racism, its little wonder the Portuguese have been overwhelmed.

I am old fashioned and believe any soldier that fights for his country deserves respect and when any soldier has proven war wounds and scars as De Gaulle had, they should be accorded even greater respect.

Are you seriously saying that thousands of people lied about events in Notre Dame cathedral and the sound tape has been doctored?

To equate terrorists and freedom fighters to members of regular armed forces is ridiculous and to equate De Gaulle to a terrorist is disgraceful.

Obviously xenophobia seems to have a place on this forum and that is truly sad.

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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by aquila on 08.06.14 17:28

@RIPM wrote:
@bobbin wrote:
@RIPM wrote:
@tigger wrote:
@RIPM wrote:
@tigger wrote:
Neither was Angela Merckel best pleased at seeing a show of black jack-booted actors, kicking hapless grey suited civilians. Vichy is forgotten it seems. De Gaulle negotiated a triumphant entry of the Free French troops marching down the Champs Elysees with himself  out in front although he was never in a combat situation in his life, I've been told.


Whoever told you De Gaulle was never in a combat situation in his life is obviously a cretin.

De Gaulle was wounded leading his troops into action recovered and was then wounded again spending four months in hospital.

Later in the war he was blown up by a mine and in 1916 was wounded by a bayonet and suffered the effect of gas poisoning.

He was captured  and made 5 escape attempts.

In WW2 he was famously shot at in Notre Dame cathedral standing firm while everyone around him dived for cover

We really should not spread unfounded aspersions

I was talking about WWII.   Never heard about the Notre Dame cathedral incident - must say if a man of his size didn't take cover I'm surprised, it sounds like an apocryphal story to me afaik he never was in Paris at the same time as the German army
What is the point of lying when anyone can plainly see you said in De Gaulle's lifetime? This means in his lifetime from him being born to his death.

You then compound your ignorance about events in Notre Dame when it is well documented and there is even a sound recording of the event in the BBC archive.

Your blatant racism  against a proven French war hero is pathetic and does neither you nor this forum any credit.

If your Madeleine  research is as poor there is no hope.
Rather a shocking attack RIPM on a poster whose contributions to the forum have been exemplary.
Tigger said, 'I've been told' and then goes on to say who told her.
You quote history as if it is the 'true version' yet as we all know, history is told as from the eye of the beholder.
You may vehemently see DeGaulle as a 'Proven French war hero', many other people may not do so.
It is irrelevant vis a vis this forum and the excellent work done by tigger,and to attack tigger's research work, based on your own sentiments is unpleasant, and in my opinion, reflects more on you.
Let it be remembered that the 'terrorist' seen from the opposing side, is the 'freedom fighter' seen from the on-side, and 'history' is recorded differently, according to these 'positions' and both sides have their arguments.
One may only agree "politely" to differ if one is to retain one's own dignity and credibility.

So it would seem if its a British soldier showing extraordinary bravery his war record must be true BUT because its a FRENCHMAN who has
been wounded several times, gassed, blown up and spent months in a military hospital his records must have been embellished.

It is very sad to see such blatant racism, its little wonder the Portuguese have been overwhelmed.

I am old fashioned and believe any soldier that fights for his country deserves respect and when any soldier has proven war wounds and scars as De Gaulle had, they should be accorded even greater respect.

Are you seriously saying that thousands of people lied about events in Notre Dame cathedral and the sound tape has been doctored?

To equate terrorists and freedom fighters to members of regular armed forces is ridiculous and to equate De Gaulle to a terrorist is disgraceful.

Obviously xenophobia seems to have a place on this forum and that is truly sad.
Have a nice cuppa and cool down.

BTW: tigger is Dutch so I don't know what the xenophobia/British/French stuff is you're spouting.

What a pity this lovely thread about a dear ordinary military chaps has turned into something unpleasant.

Absolutely no need for it RIPM.

Be very glad that the British forces landed in Normandy. Celebrate their bravery. Be thankful to them.

Let your name RIPM extend to Rest In Peace Military men who died for us so that we are not a Nazi regime.

Have a nice day and please don't ever attack tigger on this forum about her research until you've provided any meaningful research of your own into the Madeleine McCann case.

Best wishes.

aquila

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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by tigger on 08.06.14 17:50

I'm rather surprised at being called a racist because I dislike the actions of de Gaulle. My French friends who also disliked him must come under the same heading or would that come under freedom of speech and expression?


It must be a comfort to those of the German people who still admire Hitler that you feel the same about him as you do about de Gaulle.

You have turned a good topic into an imo ridiculous example of racism.

I referred to an article in the Telegraph which criticised the overly French tone of the celebrations. i agreed and added background.

I will not post on this matter, so any more name-calling will not be answered by me.

Xenophilia tends to be my weakness, Particularly where Britain is concerned, with some minor exceptions of course.


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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by plebgate on 08.06.14 18:39

@bobbin wrote:
@RIPM wrote:
@tigger wrote:
@RIPM wrote:
@tigger wrote:
Neither was Angela Merckel best pleased at seeing a show of black jack-booted actors, kicking hapless grey suited civilians. Vichy is forgotten it seems. De Gaulle negotiated a triumphant entry of the Free French troops marching down the Champs Elysees with himself  out in front although he was never in a combat situation in his life, I've been told.


Whoever told you De Gaulle was never in a combat situation in his life is obviously a cretin.

De Gaulle was wounded leading his troops into action recovered and was then wounded again spending four months in hospital.

Later in the war he was blown up by a mine and in 1916 was wounded by a bayonet and suffered the effect of gas poisoning.

He was captured  and made 5 escape attempts.

In WW2 he was famously shot at in Notre Dame cathedral standing firm while everyone around him dived for cover

We really should not spread unfounded aspersions

I was talking about WWII.   Never heard about the Notre Dame cathedral incident - must say if a man of his size didn't take cover I'm surprised, it sounds like an apocryphal story to me afaik he never was in Paris at the same time as the German army
What is the point of lying when anyone can plainly see you said in De Gaulle's lifetime? This means in his lifetime from him being born to his death.

You then compound your ignorance about events in Notre Dame when it is well documented and there is even a sound recording of the event in the BBC archive.

Your blatant racism  against a proven French war hero is pathetic and does neither you nor this forum any credit.

If your Madeleine  research is as poor there is no hope.
Rather a shocking attack RIPM on a poster whose contributions to the forum have been exemplary.
Tigger said, 'I've been told' and then goes on to say who told her.
You quote history as if it is the 'true version' yet as we all know, history is told as from the eye of the beholder.
You may vehemently see DeGaulle as a 'Proven French war hero', many other people may not do so.
It is irrelevant vis a vis this forum and the excellent work done by tigger,and to attack tigger's research work, based on your own sentiments is unpleasant, and in my opinion, reflects more on you.
Let it be remembered that the 'terrorist' seen from the opposing side, is the 'freedom fighter' seen from the on-side, and 'history' is recorded differently, according to these 'positions' and both sides have their arguments.
One may only agree "politely" to differ if one is to retain one's own dignity and credibility.

Ref. red highlights  -   Exactly.   If I didn't know better I would have thought this poster sounds just like WLBTS.    Ohh funnily enough I seem to remember that in the week RIPM answered a post from Tony @ WLBTS, have they become buddies since joining this forum?

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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by lj on 08.06.14 22:17

Just wanted to say I agree with all the posts supporting Tigger. Sad that Tigger's "little" humor is not even understood.
Very sad this thread had to be ruined.

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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 09.06.14 10:13

@plebgate wrote:
Ref. red highlights - Exactly. If I didn't know better I would have thought this poster sounds just like WLBTS. Ohh funnily enough I seem to remember that in the week RIPM answered a post from Tony @ WLBTS, have they become buddies since joining this forum?

I don't know why I've been dragged into this.  I'm not "buddies" with RIPM, I can't even remember whether I've discussed anything with him/her at all.  I see the obvious implication in your post plebgate, I'll just refer it to a mod and say nothing else here.

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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by aiyoyo on 09.06.14 10:29

@aquila wrote:I'd like to think this wonderful man will receive correspondence from Buckingham Palace with an invitation to meet with the Queen and Prince Philip.

Do they give time of the day to war veteran in care home?
Thought their invites are usually reserved for "sexual predators national treasures" !

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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by Guest on 09.06.14 12:37

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@plebgate wrote:
Ref. red highlights  -   Exactly.   If I didn't know better I would have thought this poster sounds just like WLBTS.    Ohh funnily enough I seem to remember that in the week RIPM answered a post from Tony @ WLBTS, have they become buddies since joining this forum?

I don't know why I've been dragged into this.  I'm not "buddies" with RIPM, I can't even remember whether I've discussed anything with him/her at all.  I see the obvious implication in your post plebgate, I'll just refer it to a mod and say nothing else here.

I agree that was an uncalled comment on the part of plebgate.

As LJ, it's sad that this thread was ruined.

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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by plebgate on 09.06.14 13:25

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@plebgate wrote:
Ref. red highlights  -   Exactly.   If I didn't know better I would have thought this poster sounds just like WLBTS.    Ohh funnily enough I seem to remember that in the week RIPM answered a post from Tony @ WLBTS, have they become buddies since joining this forum?

I don't know why I've been dragged into this.  I'm not "buddies" with RIPM, I can't even remember whether I've discussed anything with him/her at all.  I see the obvious implication in your post plebgate, I'll just refer it to a mod and say nothing else here.
I will probably get a ban but here goes - only saying what I see - now you know what it's like for TB when posters jump on him.   big grin

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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by Guest on 09.06.14 13:27

Please could any concerns as to whether posters are genuine or not be dealt with by private message.

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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by plebgate on 09.06.14 13:28

Yes of course NFWTD, apologies to you for having to remind me of this. smilie

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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by Garrincha on 09.06.14 14:16

Hello No Fate - to whom should such private messages be sent?

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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by tigger on 09.06.14 16:10

We could of course get back on track and see what happened to those very young soldiers - on radio 5 I was touched by the comments.
One of them said, 'I'm looking at my son, same age, preparing for his A levels, the thought of him being part of that invasion is horrendous.' (Not litt. quote)

Several veterans said they would not describe what they saw as it wouldn't be fair to the families who'd lost somebody in those horrific circumstances. That is impressive, taking account of how others may feel.

Not a trauma counsellor in sight - Some years read an obituary of a man who'dlost both his sons in the war. He said he and his wife dealt with their grief in their own way, describing trauma 'experts' as unnecessary and ultimately counter to the natural grieving process.

What I mean to say is that the great majority of those returning home after the war got on with their lives as best they could and many made a good enough life for themselves. For that too, I admire them.


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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by lj on 09.06.14 16:24

@plebgate wrote:
@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@plebgate wrote:
Ref. red highlights  -   Exactly.   If I didn't know better I would have thought this poster sounds just like WLBTS.    Ohh funnily enough I seem to remember that in the week RIPM answered a post from Tony @ WLBTS, have they become buddies since joining this forum?

I don't know why I've been dragged into this.  I'm not "buddies" with RIPM, I can't even remember whether I've discussed anything with him/her at all.  I see the obvious implication in your post plebgate, I'll just refer it to a mod and say nothing else here.
I will probably get a ban but here goes - only saying what I see - now you know what it's like for TB when posters jump on him.   big grin


I know I should not do it but :  thumbsup

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Re: Operation Overlord. D-Day

Post by lj on 09.06.14 16:28

@tigger wrote:We could of course get back on track and see what happened to those very young soldiers - on radio 5 I was touched by the comments.
One of them said, 'I'm looking at my son, same age, preparing for his A levels, the thought of him being part of that invasion is horrendous.' (Not litt. quote)

Several veterans said they would not describe what they saw as it wouldn't be fair to the families who'd lost somebody in those horrific circumstances.  That is impressive, taking account of how others may feel.

Not a trauma counsellor in sight - Some years  read an obituary of  a man who'dlost both his sons in the war. He said he and his wife dealt with their grief in their own way, describing trauma 'experts' as unnecessary and ultimately counter to the natural grieving process.

What I mean to say is that the great majority of those returning home after the war got on with their lives as best they could and many made a good enough life for themselves. For that too, I admire them.



For anyone, who lived with a person with a KZ syndrome, or resistance members who have what we would now call PTSD, it is clear that the horror did not stop when the war ended. 

It's amazing indeed if you think that these people did all those great things at an age that's now called "underage.

And indeed Tigger the enormous work after the war to rebuild most of Europe. It was also a generation that worked with the motto "never again!". 

Do you know that the amount of money of the Marshall plan was less than the money dedicated for rebuilding after hurricane Katrina, even after correction for inflation?

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http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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