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"Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

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Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

Post by ChippyM on 05.05.14 18:13

@margaret wrote:
@phil_burton wrote:Going with the theory that this dig is actually happening, then there absolutely must be something solid to go on,

I can't see that anyone has cracked, it's been too long, the heat has died down.


But we don't know what's been going on really, and remember there was talk of a tapas member ready to spill the beans way back.

What l really am wondering about is WHY the Mccanns have been talking that Maddie may be dead this week. Isn't the best defence for them to deny Maddie could be dead then any ( potential ) body found would be a total shock?

The only reason loft them to announce this l can think of is their rampant narcissism. It makes no sense otherwise.

 It might make sense if they know for certain M. Is going to be declared dead or even found dead. Reacting to this news first is a a form of control - if they do their best to shape people's opinions of what is to come that is the best way they may have of continuing to manipulate public perception of events.
  If this is the case then how do they know for definite...but the fact that Kate has alluded to it indicates they DO know, one way or the other.

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Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

Post by Guest on 05.05.14 18:15

I'm sure there can't be any time limit on investigating murders unless of course they happened so long ago that nobody who might have been involved could still be alive.

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Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

Post by Newintown on 05.05.14 18:16

@margaret wrote:
@Newintown wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
@TheTruthWillOut wrote:

Apologies in advance as I'll likely have this very wrong.....

Possibly items that where in direct contact with her, e.g: clothing, where placed into the Scenic to be disposed of separately?

I'm sure the more knowledgeable posters on this subject will shoot this down and/or come up with something.
Was thinking along those lines myself.

Now i'm sure if they buried MBM then she would not be wearing any item of clothing at all. IMO i don't think she was buried. More likely the body was disposed in the sea.

Anyway, if she was dead for a period of time in her pyjama's and the pyjama's were removed from her. Hidden somewhere and transported in the Renault Scenic some weeks later then would that be enough to leave a Cadaver scent??

I can't remember the exact details at this precise moment but didn't GA say that there was evidence of a body having been thawed out that was detected in the Scenic.  Perhaps someone who has a better memory than myself can put us straight on that.

It was from the bodily fluids found. Maybe there a test that can see if those fluids had previously been frozen?

I've found the report from GA regarding the frozen body fluids in the Scenic:

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id139.html

"The cadaver was frozen"

Correio da Manhã - What do you think happened to the body?

Gonçalo Amaral – Everything indicated that the body, after having been at a certain location, was moved into another location by car, twenty something days later. With the residues that were found inside the car, the little girl had to have been transported inside it.

How can you state that?

Due to the type of fluid, we policemen, experts, say that the cadaver was frozen or preserved in the cold and when placed into the car boot, with the heat at that time [of the year], part of the ice melted. On a curb, for example, something fell from the trunk's right side, above the wheel. It may be said that this is speculation, but it's the only way to explain what happened there.

If the body was hidden in the beach area first, was it always out of reach for the searches?

The beach was searched at a time when it is not known whether the body was still there. Using dogs, but sniffer dogs have limitations, like the salted water, for example. Later on, it may have been removed.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The whole report is there, but if you do a word search for "frozen" it will find the appropriate paragraphs.  They are quite a long way down on the page.

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Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

Post by Guest on 05.05.14 18:29

Cheers for that Newtintown. Will have a thorough read shortly.

DELETED. stated as fact NOT FACT

The hire car was the main thing that always puzzled me.

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Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

Post by lj on 05.05.14 18:29

@PeterMac wrote:This is old news.
They have already started.

This picture was taken two weeks ago - (according to the EXIF metadada ! !)
" />

Nice to see Andy appreciates decorum, at least from the neck up. big grin 

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Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

Post by PeterMac on 05.05.14 18:55

@noddy100 wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:And of course yet another thing the whole idea of "digging" proves is that Scotland Yard believe (or know know )she was dead before
10pm. 3/5/7
since there isn't time in anyone's "Window of opportunity' to dig a grave as well as administer sedation and climb out and do all the other things necessary.
and coming BACK to PdL to dig it at a later stage is beyond even the stupidity of McMitchell to suggest.
Yes this is definitely indicating burial before police/media were called so much earlier
But this lot can spin anything so I hope Portugal don't get walked over

It is going to difficult to 'spin' a body which was clearly buried before2200: 3/5/7 when you have committed yourselves and 7 friends, Last Photos, and all the rest to her being alive at 2100 that evening !
THINK AL CAPONE.

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Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

Post by sonic72 on 05.05.14 18:56

The fact The Mirror had this story exclusively says to me that it's all a load of rubbish.

They can't even get the PJ to acknowledge their requests, so I cannot see any kind of dig going ahead.

Mark Warner would not appreciate further unwanted media attention at the resort.

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Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

Post by Guest on 05.05.14 18:59

Andrew77R wrote:
@TheTruthWillOut wrote:

Apologies in advance as I'll likely have this very wrong.....

Possibly items that where in direct contact with her, e.g: clothing, where placed into the Scenic to be dispose of separately?

I'm sure the more knowledgeable posters on this subject will shoot this down and/or come up with something.
Was thinking along those lines myself.

Now i'm sure if they buried MBM then she would not be wearing any item of clothing at all. IMO i don't think she was buried. More likely the body was disposed in the sea.

Anyway, if she was dead for a period of time in her pyjama's and the pyjama's were removed from her, hidden somewhere then transported in the Renault Scenic some weeks later then would that be enough to leave a Cadaver scent??

I also considered this, but as well as GA's evidence that fluids found were from a corpse that had been frozen or kept in ice, he also states in his book 'The Truth About the Lie' that the Scenic boot door was kept permanently open and there was a bad smell detectable to the human nose emanating from it. Snipped from the book:

"Eddie did not hesitate for a moment. He was only interested in the McCanns' automobile. No other attracted his attention or provoked any reaction whatsoever on his part. So, why would certain people want to minimise the evidence produced by this method?Later, I am brought the witness statement of a neighbour, according to whom, the McCanns left their car boot open all the time. For Gerry's brother-in-law, the bad smell was explained by the fact that the McCanns transported their bins in it. As for the blood, it had been left by a piece of meat fallen out of a shopping bag. Kate's cousin explained that the unpleasant smells were due to the little ones' dirty nappies.None of that stands up to scrutiny faced with the reactions of these dogs, who are thoroughly trained to detect only blood and cadaver odours."

I reckon that must have been a very strong smell indeed for the McCanns to risk having to draw attention to the raised boot in order to dissipate the smell before the lease on the hire car was up. The sort of strength that indicates the actual body was present in the boot rather than items that had merely been in contact with it.

Question is, was the body being returned to PDL for burial there (in the church/graveyard?) or taken further away to a hellish lair from which Gerry believed it could never be found?

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Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

Post by sonic72 on 05.05.14 18:59

Andrew77R wrote:Cheers for that Newtintown. Will have a thorough read shortly.

Mccann's must have some bottle to transport a frozen body in a car hired weeks later. 

The hire car was the main thing that always puzzled me.

Desperate situations require desperate measures. They've had the bottle to keep to their version of events for the last 7 years, which most people would not have been able to keep up for so long.

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Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

Post by littlepixie on 05.05.14 19:02

I agree that this story seems a load of old rubbish. The fact that Mark Williams Thomas is bragging on twitter that he can "confirm" the Britsh Police have requested the digs makes me believe even more that this story comes from the Mcs themselves. When pushed on where his info came from Thomas tweeted it comes from the "Britsh side" - very slippery!

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Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

Post by stillsloppingout on 05.05.14 19:05

@phil_burton wrote:And as for Gerry's "find the body and prove we killed her"...I don't read that as him saying "you'll never find it, it's hidden that well/destroyed"

I read it as a challenge to the investigators, hinting that it's findable, that he knows something we don't, almost a sneering willingness to be caught for his crime.
Its called control . It is the same principal as Ian Brady , he knows damn well where the others are buried , he is just withholding the info to retain some semblance of power . Shipman kept trophy's . 

Gerry making that statement, was foreseeing the end game. and his goading was the sociopath in him, bullied by knowing he had done a good job .

 Brady springs to mind same problem for the police , how do you find a body without the exact location being pinpointed by the perpetrator's  . ? 

As i have mentioned on this and the 3a's There was plenty of time to move a body after the 3rd . as i stated the snappers and press over there at the time were ALL staffers and NOT PAP'S , and due to the nature of the situation Missing child , they dutifully obeyed the protocol stood waiting  whilst questions and answer sessions were conducted usually via there spokesperson then were photographed , from no more than a respectful distance . a few extra cheeky 300m shots , but NOBODY EVER FOLLOWED THEM usually back to the bar [ or hospital for one unlucky snapper ]. 

So they imo either 

1 imo they Disposed of Maddie when they distributed the leaflets .

2 she is under the road  [ building works ] that have been documented at the time . 

[ the poor lady in Ireland was under a tarmac road near the beach, and was there for thirty years ] 

Finally imo it's the PJ that have instigated this dig , it has caught SY  [ Team McCann ] out big time ,thus they have had no choice but to leak to there rag's of choice  [,giving the impression they are working in unison ] the Mirror and the Guardian to fully cover the national demographic . [ never the SUN due to the Screws trial ] .

So i think it's the PJ due to there tights budget's finally biting the bullet, and digging where they should have all those years ago . 

BUT WHATEVER REASON IS BEHIND IT, THEY ARE NOT DOING IT FOR THE GOOD OF THERE HEALTH .

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Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

Post by Newintown on 05.05.14 19:08

Dee Coy wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
@TheTruthWillOut wrote:

Apologies in advance as I'll likely have this very wrong.....

Possibly items that where in direct contact with her, e.g: clothing, where placed into the Scenic to be dispose of separately?

I'm sure the more knowledgeable posters on this subject will shoot this down and/or come up with something.
Was thinking along those lines myself.

Now i'm sure if they buried MBM then she would not be wearing any item of clothing at all. IMO i don't think she was buried. More likely the body was disposed in the sea.

Anyway, if she was dead for a period of time in her pyjama's and the pyjama's were removed from her, hidden somewhere then transported in the Renault Scenic some weeks later then would that be enough to leave a Cadaver scent??

I also considered this, but as well as GA's evidence that fluids found were from a corpse that had been frozen or kept in ice, he also states in his book 'The Truth About the Lie' that the Scenic boot door was kept permanently open and there was a bad smell detectable to the human nose emanating from it. Snipped from the book:

"Eddie did not hesitate for a moment. He was only interested in the McCanns' automobile. No other attracted his attention or provoked any reaction whatsoever on his part. So, why would certain people want to minimise the evidence produced by this method?Later, I am brought the witness statement of a neighbour, according to whom, the McCanns left their car boot open all the time. For Gerry's brother-in-law, the bad smell was explained by the fact that the McCanns transported their bins in it. As for the blood, it had been left by a piece of meat fallen out of a shopping bag. Kate's cousin explained that the unpleasant smells were due to the little ones' dirty nappies.None of that stands up to scrutiny faced with the reactions of these dogs, who are thoroughly trained to detect only blood and cadaver odours."

I reckon that must have been a very strong smell indeed for the McCanns to risk having to draw attention to the raised boot in order to dissipate the smell before the lease on the hire car was up. The sort of strength that indicates the actual body was present in the boot rather than items that had merely been in contact with it.

Question is, was the body being returned to PDL for burial there (in the church/graveyard?) or taken further away to a hellish lair from which Gerry believed it could never be found?

Seeing there are bins on every corner in PDL (even KM said she looked in the bins in the early morning of 4th May) there is no excuse for having dirty, smelly nappies or rotten food in the boot of the car that it stunk to high heaven and the McCanns had to keep the boot open for nights on end (I wonder how that would have gone down with the insurance company if they'd known the boot was left open for night after night).

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Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

Post by gbwales on 05.05.14 19:09

@ PeterMac What is your expert opinion on the pre-announcing of a dig, especially where relatively specific locations have been mentioned?

With the announcing of imminent arrests on quite specific suspects, there's the obvious risk of flight (but we know they're rubbish of course.... But theoretically that would be a risk.)

With a dig does any kind of reasonably accurate or specific pre-announcement have a parallel risk of inference with the location by stupid members of the public, or indeed by others (though if suspects or POIs undertook any kind of activity, even checking the locations out that would be interesting...?) especially if it is announced a couple of weeks in advance?

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Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

Post by Newintown on 05.05.14 19:14

@littlepixie wrote:I agree that this story seems a load of old rubbish. The fact that Mark Williams Thomas is bragging on twitter that he can "confirm" the Britsh Police have requested the digs makes me believe even more that this story comes from the Mcs themselves. When pushed on where his info came from Thomas tweeted it comes from the "Britsh side" - very slippery!

Mark William Thomas seems to hang on the coat tails of everyone else to make himself seem important.  He's like one of those not very liked class mates you have hanging on to you at school when you're copying someone else's homework and he's hovering in the background trying to listen in so he can pick up some snippets to fill in the blanks on his own homework.    big grin

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Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

Post by canada12 on 05.05.14 19:28

@Newintown wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
@TheTruthWillOut wrote:

Apologies in advance as I'll likely have this very wrong.....

Possibly items that where in direct contact with her, e.g: clothing, where placed into the Scenic to be dispose of separately?

I'm sure the more knowledgeable posters on this subject will shoot this down and/or come up with something.
Was thinking along those lines myself.

Now i'm sure if they buried MBM then she would not be wearing any item of clothing at all. IMO i don't think she was buried. More likely the body was disposed in the sea.

Anyway, if she was dead for a period of time in her pyjama's and the pyjama's were removed from her, hidden somewhere then transported in the Renault Scenic some weeks later then would that be enough to leave a Cadaver scent??

I also considered this, but as well as GA's evidence that fluids found were from a corpse that had been frozen or kept in ice, he also states in his book 'The Truth About the Lie' that the Scenic boot door was kept permanently open and there was a bad smell detectable to the human nose emanating from it. Snipped from the book:

"Eddie did not hesitate for a moment. He was only interested in the McCanns' automobile. No other attracted his attention or provoked any reaction whatsoever on his part. So, why would certain people want to minimise the evidence produced by this method?Later, I am brought the witness statement of a neighbour, according to whom, the McCanns left their car boot open all the time. For Gerry's brother-in-law, the bad smell was explained by the fact that the McCanns transported their bins in it. As for the blood, it had been left by a piece of meat fallen out of a shopping bag. Kate's cousin explained that the unpleasant smells were due to the little ones' dirty nappies.None of that stands up to scrutiny faced with the reactions of these dogs, who are thoroughly trained to detect only blood and cadaver odours."

I reckon that must have been a very strong smell indeed for the McCanns to risk having to draw attention to the raised boot in order to dissipate the smell before the lease on the hire car was up. The sort of strength that indicates the actual body was present in the boot rather than items that had merely been in contact with it.

Question is, was the body being returned to PDL for burial there (in the church/graveyard?) or taken further away to a hellish lair from which Gerry believed it could never be found?

Seeing there are bins on every corner in PDL (even KM said she looked in the bins in the early morning of 4th May) there is no excuse for having dirty, smelly nappies or rotten food in the boot of the car that it stunk to high heaven and the McCanns had to keep the boot open for nights on end (I wonder how that would have gone down with the insurance company if they'd known the boot was left open for night after night).

Not only that, but the McCanns (presumably) had enough money available to them by then that if the smell had been caused by something as innocuous as dirty nappies or leaked meat juices, all they needed to do was return the car to the car rental place and offer to pay to have it steam cleaned, as it was their fault for causing the smell.

The fact that they didn't do this - that they elected to keep the boot open and try to get rid of the smell instead - is one more indicator to me that IMO they had something to hide, and didn't want the car returned to the rental agency in that condition.

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Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

Post by canada12 on 05.05.14 19:34

It's also entirely possible that Kate and Gerry deliberately carried around dirty nappies and leaky meat containers in order to create additional smells to try and mask what the original smell was. IMO.

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Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

Post by PeterMac on 05.05.14 20:21

@sonic72 wrote:
Desperate situations require desperate measures. They've had the bottle to keep to their version of events for the last 7 years, which most people would not have been able to keep up for so long.
They have kept to SEVERAL versions of events, bringing in new ones without specifically resiling from the earlier one.
Front door or patio door.
Wide open curtains (Kate's statement ) or Tightly closed "whooshing curtains, (Kate's book and all interviews since)
No sedation - original, or definite sedation - after mature consideration
Hellish Lair for 7 years or being looked after by a childless millionaire family
Last Photo taken on 3/5/7, or too cold and cloudy, so decided to take it four days earlier

You can take your pick, or if you are a lobotomised McSupporter, . . . believe them all.
Anyway it is nice to add another suspect.
Please welcome
Diggerman, a friend of potbellied smellyman, and a previous colleague of Dead-heroin-Cape-Verdeman, aka. Tractor-man

Desperate situations require heavy machinery.

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Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

Post by Guest on 05.05.14 20:22

This and the like doing the rounds on twitter. 


RT @JillyCL: Breaking Portuguese TV News: The Rogatory Letter requesting the digging to go ahead has been approved by Portugal. #McCann

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Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 05.05.14 20:26

Have just listened again to Russel Myers on Newstalk and this journo is in Luz. He surely wouldn't be there for nothing would he? Especially if there is at least a two week wait like he states....

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Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

Post by sallypelt on 05.05.14 20:27

polícia inglesa quer fazer escavações na zona da Praia da Luz, em Lagos, para procurar o corpo de Madeleine McCann, a criança inglesa que desapareceu há sete anos. A intenção da Scotland Yard, que só será concretizada com a autorização das autoridades portuguesas, foi ontem à noite noticiada pela imprensa inglesa.
Os britânicos pretendem usar equipamentos de radar e enviar para Portugal uma equipa de investigadores especializados em busca de cadáveres

Google translation:

British seek body of Maddie in the Algarve

Intend Scotland Yard was reported on Sunday evening, the English press.

  British police want to dig in Praia da Luz, Lagos, the place to look for the body of Madeleine McCann, the British toddler who disappeared seven years ago. The intent of Scotland Yard, which will be accomplished with the permission of the Portuguese authorities, was last night reported in the English press.
The British plan to use radar equipment and Portugal to send a team of specialist investigators in search of corpses


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Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

Post by margaret on 05.05.14 20:28

Andrew77R wrote:This and the like doing the rounds on twitter. 


RT @JillyCL: Breaking Portuguese TV News: The Rogatory Letter requesting the digging to go ahead has been approved by Portugal. #McCann

Would Portugal have to write a rogatory letter for digging, or has the request come from SY?

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Chelsea Hoffman

Post by PeterMac on 05.05.14 20:31

Did Maddie's parents bury her at resort?
Las Vegas : NV : USA | May 05, 2014 at 2:54 AM PDT BY Chelsea Hoffman
What happened to Maddie?
The search for Madeleine McCann has produced a new shocking update: Officials are preparing to dig at the Portugal resort where the child vanished. This could signal the beginning of the end of this seven-year-long cold case that has long been at the front of worldwide media headlines. What needs to be asked, though, is this: If Madeleine is found buried at the resort, who put her there?
Evidence has always supported the theory that Maddie never left the resort alive. So it wouldn't be surprising at all if her body is unearthed at the popular vacation spot. It also seems convenient that the SY officials would publicize their search plans just days after Kate McCann expressed the desire to find out whether or not little Maddie is alive. Could the little girl's parents be nervous about the upcoming dig operation?
When Madeleine McCann first vanished, investigators in Portugal declared her parents as suspects. They did so upon observing all of the evidence against them: Signs that someone had died in their rental apartment, no signs of forced entry, no verifiable fingerprints belonging to anyone but Kate McCann -- and the list just goes on and on. Now that SY are going to dig in search of Maddie's remains, one has to wonder of investigators in Portugal were right all along: Did Kate and Gerry McCann cover up their daughter's accidental death?

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Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

Post by sallypelt on 05.05.14 20:34

@PeterMac wrote:
Did Maddie's parents bury her at resort?
Las Vegas : NV : USA | May 05, 2014 at 2:54 AM PDT BY Chelsea Hoffman  
What happened to Maddie?
The search for Madeleine McCann has produced a new shocking update: Officials are preparing to dig at the Portugal resort where the child vanished. This could signal the beginning of the end of this seven-year-long cold case that has long been at the front of worldwide media headlines. What needs to be asked, though, is this: If Madeleine is found buried at the resort, who put her there?
Evidence has always supported the theory that Maddie never left the resort alive. So it wouldn't be surprising at all if her body is unearthed at the popular vacation spot. It also seems convenient that the SY officials would publicize their search plans just days after Kate McCann expressed the desire to find out whether or not little Maddie is alive. Could the little girl's parents be nervous about the upcoming dig operation?
When Madeleine McCann first vanished, investigators in Portugal declared her parents as suspects. They did so upon observing all of the evidence against them: Signs that someone had died in their rental apartment, no signs of forced entry, no verifiable fingerprints belonging to anyone but Kate McCann -- and the list just goes on and on. Now that SY are going to dig in search of Maddie's remains, one has to wonder of investigators in Portugal were right all along: Did Kate and Gerry McCann cover up their daughter's accidental death?

Oh dear!

Where IS Carter-Ruck when the McCann's need them most?

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Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

Post by Watching on 05.05.14 20:39


  1. JillyCL ‏[ltr]@JillyCL[/ltr]  34m
    Breaking Portuguese TV News: The Rogatory Letter requesting the digging to go ahead has been approved by Portugal. #McCann
    Details



  • Joana Morais ‏[ltr]@xklamation[/ltr]  17m
    @JillyCL which channel, watching the news on main 3 channels in zapping mode and can't see anything?
    Details



  • JillyCL ‏[ltr]@JillyCL[/ltr]  13m
    @xklamation It was on the News Headlines with a report to follow in the programme...
    #McCann
    Details



  • Joana Morais ‏[ltr]@xklamation[/ltr]  11m
    @JillyCL thank you, do you know which channel SIC, TVI or RTP?
    Details




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    Re: "Maddie cops to start digging at resort"

    Post by Guest on 05.05.14 20:45

    @Watching wrote:

    1. JillyCL ‏
      [ltr]@JillyCL[/ltr]

        34m
      Breaking Portuguese TV News: The Rogatory Letter requesting the digging to go ahead has been approved by Portugal. #McCann
      Details



  • Joana Morais ‏
    [ltr]@xklamation[/ltr]

      17m
    @JillyCL which channel, watching the news on main 3 channels in zapping mode and can't see anything?
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  • JillyCL ‏
    [ltr]@JillyCL[/ltr]

      13m
    @xklamation It was on the News Headlines with a report to follow in the programme...
    #McCann
    Details



  • Joana Morais ‏
    [ltr]@xklamation[/ltr]

      11m
    @JillyCL thank you, do you know which channel SIC, TVI or RTP?
    Details




  • Joana Morais ‏[ltr]@xklamation[/ltr]  now
    @JillyCL is right, it was approved. #mccann

    Guest
    Guest


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