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PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by marconi on 04.03.14 14:52

@utahagen wrote:Anybody catch this? “[Portuguese] police are still working on the very basic job of trying to identify mobile phone activity that took place in and around the Ocean Club on the night of May 3 2007”. - See more at: http://portugalresident.com/madeleine-case-pj-investigators-%E2%80%98hit-back%E2%80%99-at-british-press#sthash.uDdsWGVu.dpuf

Do you think perhaps the PJ have mobile phone records of the McCann et al and have mapped out their activities the night Madeleine disappeared based on cell phone records? Could the McCanns be nervous about this?

===========================================================================================================
they probably have.

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by nglfi on 04.03.14 18:34

I wonder why SY, including both Hogan Howe and Redwood feel the need to ingratiate themselves with the parents. I'm not saying I'm sure what's going on behind the scenes. I still can't decide whether or not they are on the right lines of enquiry, I have my positive and negative days. But whatever the truth of what they are following, they are clearly upsetting the PJ with their failure to curb the press, or even to stop leaking the stories themselves. Why on the surface do they appear to support the parents? Redwood has stated they aren't suspects, and both him and HH talk sympathetically about the parent's 'pain'. They could maintain a dignified silence, say they can't really comment on an ongoing investigation etc. Is it in the hope that the parents will relax enough to let something slip? Why else would they do this?

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by canada12 on 04.03.14 18:52

Over here I've found that regardless of what the police think privately, publicly they always make a point of stating that someone is only a "person of interest", or someone they'd like to talk to, rather than a suspect, until such time that they have enough evidence to formally arrest someone. I think it may be their legal safe ground to say this, rather than to come out and identify someone as a suspect, thus avoiding any prejudicial media coverage, the possibility of lawsuits, vigilante justice, etc.

On a similar theme, I think the fact that the McCanns are maintaining that Tannerman still exists on their website is a definite statement about where they stand in terms of cooperating with SY. SY has trashed Tannerman. Tannerman is the backbone of the McCanns' alibi and probably the sole excuse for The Fund's existence now. I think there's a definite rift there.

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by Jemmied_Shatter on 04.03.14 19:01

Do the Portuguese have an equivalent to Private Eye? It would make a great story. Headlines of : BUNGLING BRITISH BOBBY's. Articles about Tannerman, Crecheman, Smithman, Heroin addicted Tractorman, White Van Deliveryman, Ocean Resort Maintenanceman. Have I left anybody out? Stories about sea bass, Doctors handling corpses everyday, Wild dogs, Lawless hills, BIG BOYS OF Investigation kicking in the doors of the PJ detectives. You couldn't make this stuff up could you?
Then it could end with a roundup of "questions you would like to ask Kate McCann".
 drama drama drama drama drama drama drama drama drama drama drama drama bomb

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by nglfi on 04.03.14 19:05

@canada12 wrote:Over here I've found that regardless of what the police think privately, publicly they always make a point of stating that someone is only a "person of interest", or someone they'd like to talk to, rather than a suspect, until such time that they have enough evidence to formally arrest someone. I think it may be their legal safe ground to say this, rather than to come out and identify someone as a suspect, thus avoiding any prejudicial media coverage, the possibility of lawsuits, vigilante justice, etc.

On a similar theme, I think the fact that the McCanns are maintaining that Tannerman still exists on their website is a definite statement about where they stand in terms of cooperating with SY. SY has trashed Tannerman. Tannerman is the backbone of the McCanns' alibi and probably the sole excuse for The Fund's existence now. I think there's a definite rift there.
I understand the reluctance to name anybody as a suspect until there is enough evidence to arrest, and indeed probably until after the person has actually been arrested, but it seems often they make sympathetic comments which they don't really need to do. It's quite unprofessional and I think is part of the reason the PJ are peed off.

On the other hand, the Tannerman issue is a bone of contention between them and does indicate a lack of close co operation. I just wish SY would act a little more professionally with the MSM.

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by Monty Heck on 04.03.14 19:08


"One of the major issues the PJ has with the British media circus is that “the two police forces have different lines of investigation, and their policies over communication are also contradictory,” two PJ inspectors who prefer to remain anonymous told ionline. Thus the warning to stop “pronouncing on supposed facts of the Portuguese investigation ... as it is something that the British do not know about”. - See more at: http://portugalresident.com/madeleine-case-pj-investigators-%E2%80%98hit-back%E2%80%99-at-british-press#sthash.kxROsW4T.dpuf

The line in bold is a stand out.  According to this SY in fact know nothing at all of the Portuguese investigation.  Small wonder what's been circulated in the  UKMSM lately has had more than a whiff of the fantastical if it's basis is more shot in the dark than information sharing by the PJ.

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 04.03.14 19:49

Reading that Monty Heck, it does sound like the PJ haven't shared anything with SY and SY have retaliated by feeding stories to the UK press.

I still like to believe though that it is all part of a game and in reality they (SY and PJ) are quietly building a case.......Call me a optimist. pray2

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by HelenMeg on 04.03.14 20:00

@TheTruthWillOut wrote:Reading that Monty Heck, it does sound like the PJ haven't shared anything with SY and SY have retaliated by feeding stories to the UK press.

I still like to believe though that it is all part of a game and in reality they (SY and PJ) are quietly building a case.......Call me a optimist. pray2
Optimist ! But I like to believe that too.

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by HelenMeg on 04.03.14 20:02

Besides, creating an illusion of 'a battle between both forces' is a very nice ploy. Hats off to them if it is part of a game plan

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by Monty Heck on 04.03.14 20:17

@HelenMeg wrote:
@TheTruthWillOut wrote:Reading that Monty Heck, it does sound like the PJ haven't shared anything with SY and SY have retaliated by feeding stories to the UK press.

I still like to believe though that it is all part of a game and in reality they (SY and PJ) are quietly building a case.......Call me a optimist. pray2
Optimist ! But I like to believe that too.

To optimism! It's what's kept most of us staying with this throughout the long years.  In this instance though, as the PJ seem generally to play things straight down the line I would tend towards the view that they are telling it closest to how it is.  So, even if this turns out not to be some clever game plan being played out jointly by the two forces perhaps we could nevertheless take heart from the fact that one investigation looks like it can be relied on to get on with the business of discovering the truth, not bending to political will or trying to be populist.

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by canada12 on 04.03.14 20:21

I'm reminded of a ploy in tv cop shows... "good cop / bad cop". The "bad cop" gets the suspect all on edge and gets right in their faces with the evidence. The "good cop" tries to win the suspect's sympathies and trust. Both have the same ultimate goal. Just different methods of getting the information they need.

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by Guest on 04.03.14 20:22

@Monty Heck wrote:

"One of the major issues the PJ has with the British media circus is that “the two police forces have different lines of investigation, and their policies over communication are also contradictory,” two PJ inspectors who prefer to remain anonymous told ionline. Thus the warning to stop “pronouncing on supposed facts of the Portuguese investigation ... as it is something that the British do not know about”. - See more at: http://portugalresident.com/madeleine-case-pj-investigators-%E2%80%98hit-back%E2%80%99-at-british-press#sthash.kxROsW4T.dpuf

The line in bold is a stand out.  According to this SY in fact know nothing at all of the Portuguese investigation.  Small wonder what's been circulated in the  UKMSM lately has had more than a whiff of the fantastical if it's basis is more shot in the dark than information sharing by the PJ.

This is significant. It confirms that, as many on here suspected, that the two forces are following different lines of investigation. However, many of those also suspected the two lines were different but co-joined, the British were investigating the fund while the PJ are investigating the death, for example, and the findings of each would form two parts of the whole case, seperate but mutual.

It is now obvious that this is not the case.

The underlined bits show that the lines of investigation are not only different,  but also seperate - completely independent.  The two forces are not merely working to prove different conclusions, those investigations are ringfenced, private and certainly not two aspects of a mutual whole.

There appears to be no cooperation between the two forces at all, the British have no idea of the nature of the Portuguese enquiries and the PJ seem happy to keep it that way.

I see no reason to suspect this is an elaborate pretence and the two are really in cahoots. This is the first statement the Portuguese have made and I'm taking it at face value. They've been discredited so much already I simply cannot imagine they would leave themselves open to any further misunderstanding, they're keeping things, short, simple and true.

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by Jemmied_Shatter on 04.03.14 20:58

@canada12 wrote:I'm reminded of a ploy in tv cop shows... "good cop / bad cop". The "bad cop" gets the suspect all on edge and gets right in their faces with the evidence. The "good cop" tries to win the suspect's sympathies and trust. Both have the same ultimate goal. Just different methods of getting the information they need.

There was a brilliant good cop bad cop series of questions someone introduced last year and I remain convinced that this would crack the case easily. The mods thought it was a little bit too close so it was pulled however the poster did put it forward on another site where it was welcomed with open arms. I can find it for you if you like.
 empathy empathy empathy 

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by justathought on 04.03.14 21:03

The situation is simple to my mind. The PJ are seeking justice and they strongly suspect the McCanns.
SY are trying to resolve the case. But on the basis that there is no other conclusion than the McCanns are innocent.
Sad indictment as to how politics now influence investigations.

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by justathought on 04.03.14 21:16

@Jemmied_Shatter wrote:
@canada12 wrote:I'm reminded of a ploy in tv cop shows... "good cop / bad cop". The "bad cop" gets the suspect all on edge and gets right in their faces with the evidence. The "good cop" tries to win the suspect's sympathies and trust. Both have the same ultimate goal. Just different methods of getting the information they need.

There was a brilliant good cop bad cop series of questions someone introduced last year and I  remain convinced that this would crack the case easily. The mods thought it was a little bit too close so it was pulled however the poster did put it forward on another site where it was welcomed with open arms. I can find it for you if you like.
 empathy empathy empathy 
The "good cop/bad cop" ploy would have worked if it were employed. Especially if the PJ had employed it from the start. Instead they were frightened to adopt it. Murat was an early suspect, Amaral as good as admitting the team were frightened of the outside pressures put on them, not wanting to upset the media.
Often wondered how the case would have developed, if the Tapas9 were made up of a "working class" group of families. As opposed to a group of "middle class" professionals. Sad to say, in reality the PJ might well have adopted the "good cop/bad cop" tactic with the former group. No doubt with the full hearted support of the UK media for doing so.

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 04.03.14 21:27

What I can't get my head around is how SY got the go ahead to conduct a very expensive investigation into a "abduction" without first gaining the trust and co-operation of the PJ. Just seems sloppy if that is their whitewash masterplan.

And didn't both investigations start around the same time? I do wonder what new evidence the PJ got, and who from, that allowed them to re-open the case.

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by Monty Heck on 04.03.14 21:35

Dee Coy wrote:
@Monty Heck wrote:

"One of the major issues the PJ has with the British media circus is that “the two police forces have different lines of investigation, and their policies over communication are also contradictory,” two PJ inspectors who prefer to remain anonymous told ionline. Thus the warning to stop “pronouncing on supposed facts of the Portuguese investigation ... as it is something that the British do not know about”. - See more at: http://portugalresident.com/madeleine-case-pj-investigators-%E2%80%98hit-back%E2%80%99-at-british-press#sthash.kxROsW4T.dpuf

The line in bold is a stand out.  According to this SY in fact know nothing at all of the Portuguese investigation.  Small wonder what's been circulated in the  UKMSM lately has had more than a whiff of the fantastical if it's basis is more shot in the dark than information sharing by the PJ.

This is significant. It confirms that, as many on here suspected, that the two forces are following different lines of investigation. However, many of those also suspected the two lines were different but co-joined, the British were investigating the fund while the PJ are investigating the death, for example, and the findings of each would form two parts of the whole case, seperate but mutual.

It is now obvious that this is not the case.

The underlined bits show that the lines of investigation are not only different,  but also seperate - completely independent.  The two forces are not merely working to prove different conclusions, those investigations are ringfenced, private and certainly not two aspects of a mutual whole.

There appears to be no cooperation between the two forces at all, the British have no idea of the nature of the Portuguese enquiries and the PJ seem happy to keep it that way.

I see no reason to suspect this is an elaborate pretence and the two are really in cahoots. This is the first statement the Portuguese have made and I'm taking it at face value. They've been discredited so much already I simply cannot imagine they would leave themselves open to any further misunderstanding, they're keeping things, short, simple and true.
It is looking that way.  Certainly the PJ seem to want it made clear that they are having nothing to do with media announcements on progress while they are working on this case, and no-one could blame them.  Media and political influence and interference helped bring the original enquiry to its knees, something they must be keen to avoid this time round.

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by Guest on 04.03.14 22:02

Good cop, bad cop: that's Paiva all in one ...

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by lj on 05.03.14 14:30

Dee Coy wrote:
@Monty Heck wrote:

"One of the major issues the PJ has with the British media circus is that “the two police forces have different lines of investigation, and their policies over communication are also contradictory,” two PJ inspectors who prefer to remain anonymous told ionline. Thus the warning to stop “pronouncing on supposed facts of the Portuguese investigation ... as it is something that the British do not know about”. - See more at: http://portugalresident.com/madeleine-case-pj-investigators-%E2%80%98hit-back%E2%80%99-at-british-press#sthash.kxROsW4T.dpuf

The line in bold is a stand out.  According to this SY in fact know nothing at all of the Portuguese investigation.  Small wonder what's been circulated in the  UKMSM lately has had more than a whiff of the fantastical if it's basis is more shot in the dark than information sharing by the PJ.

This is significant. It confirms that, as many on here suspected, that the two forces are following different lines of investigation. However, many of those also suspected the two lines were different but co-joined, the British were investigating the fund while the PJ are investigating the death, for example, and the findings of each would form two parts of the whole case, seperate but mutual.

It is now obvious that this is not the case.

The underlined bits show that the lines of investigation are not only different,  but also seperate - completely independent.  The two forces are not merely working to prove different conclusions, those investigations are ringfenced, private and certainly not two aspects of a mutual whole.

There appears to be no cooperation between the two forces at all, the British have no idea of the nature of the Portuguese enquiries and the PJ seem happy to keep it that way.

I see no reason to suspect this is an elaborate pretence and the two are really in cahoots. This is the first statement the Portuguese have made and I'm taking it at face value. They've been discredited so much already I simply cannot imagine they would leave themselves open to any further misunderstanding, they're keeping things, short, simple and true.

I agree Dee Coy. I am still rooting for the PJ to unearth the truth. I have lost my faith in SY long, long ago.

____________________
"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by Guest on 05.03.14 16:29

My bet still is on the PJ to find evidence of the McCs' knowledge of [and possible involvement in] Madeleine' death and NSY nailing them for fraud for personal gain. One case in PT and one in the UK ...

ETA a prosecution in the UK might be "easier" for everyone and fraud can carry a sentence up to 20 years.

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 07.03.14 13:33

Still all quiet on the media front, isn't it?

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by Guest on 07.03.14 16:08

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:Still all quiet on the media front, isn't it?

Apart from Private Eye  smilie

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by Pershing36 on 07.03.14 20:08

I had a little look around the pro sites which was very enlightening.  Seems that the PJ not publishing every little detail of their investigation hardens their view they are bungling it again.

I wonder how they will twist it to Mac's and SY benefit when 7 million pounds + and not a single arrest or suspect changes anything?

NO doubt it will be the PJ's fault again.

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by tungsten tel on 07.03.14 21:23

Pretty sure SY would take the easy route of whitewash but reckon they are covering their proverbial asses by dragging it out and will have in place an ending that matches a PJ charge and conviction of the Mccanns . If they dont know what evidence the PJ have they would be foolish to come to any conclusion first . Imho

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by lj on 08.03.14 5:59

@tungsten tel wrote:Pretty sure SY would take the easy route of whitewash but reckon they are covering their proverbial asses by dragging it out and will have in place an ending that matches a PJ charge and conviction of the Mccanns . If they dont know what evidence the PJ have they would be foolish to come to any conclusion first . Imho

I have no doubt that, just as for the pathetic parents, the unexpected reopening by the PJ was a kind of unpleasant surprise.

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"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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